This Fukushima Steam- are there any good sources?

[malaise]

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_01_01/Steam-over-Fukushima-as-sign-of-catastrophe-89-tons-of-deadly-radioactive-fuel-could-reach-US-in-2-days-2074/
<snip>
Summaries from experts conclude that this may "be the beginning of a 'spent fuel pool criticality (meltdown)' involving up to 89 tons of nuclear fuel burning up into the atmosphere and heading to North America".

TEPCO has admitted that "they do not know why this steam is being generated, but matter-of-factly revealed today (December 28) the steam was first spotted on December 19 for a short period of time, then again on December 24 and again on December 25".

The general held belief is that "pellets of radioactive fuel, ejected when the reactor exploded, went into the spent fuel pool above the reactor and have begun melting down so seriously they are boiling off the water in the spent fuel pool".

Should this be the case "the situation could escalate rapidly out of control".

TRN is warning of preparatory measures that should be taken by those living on the West Coast of America because, after "releasing 89 tons of deadly radioactive fuel directly into the air", it would be a matter or 2 to 3 days before the deadly material would fry North America "by [the] levels of airborne radiation and ‘hot particles’ which could kill".
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_01_01/Steam-over-Fukushima-as-sign-of-catastrophe-89-tons-of-deadly-radioactive-fuel-could-reach-US-in-2-days-2074/

[Bennyboy]

1. I rely on FUKUSHIMA Diary...

For all news Fuku. http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/12/radiation-from-25m-underground-%E2%86%92-cesium-134137-density-increased-2-9-times-within-8-days-tepco-not-to-analyze-sr-90/

[malaise]

2. Thanks

Why is M$Greedia ignoring this major story?

[madokie]

4. According to the resident 'scientist' over in the EE group

theres nothing to worry with so maybe thats why M$greedia isn't reporting anything.


Of course I don't believe a word the 'scientist' lady over in the EE group has to say concerning this story anyway.
I say the media is taking orders from someone to keep this story tamped down. Can't be having us little people worrying to much about nuclear energy now can we.

[malaise]

5. Special interests

aren't interested. I get yah!!

[Bennyboy]

6. Well there are certain people

who are trying to put a less than apocalyptic spin on this. We have had our arguments. I kind of trust them, but not completely, just like most of the news reports coming out. How do you keep track? What is real and what isn't? I've seen the same story, in the past two days, told in five different ways, but it is the same story. One that I put out there six months ago. There is a lot of hysteria. Is it warranted? Not sure on that.

I tried here to do a FUKU inclusive thread but I got tired of fighting over every little thing so I lost interest.

You know goddamn well that the mdia is not about to report anything negative unless that news reaches critical mass. The news media are the people involved in nukes, energy and everything. GE owns media and nuke tech.

Look at the Japan Times over the past two years. How it has changed. Now it is a horrible newspaper, a Mcpaper if you will, when it was a good source for news about FUKU. Now nothing except a press release that is cleverly worded.

So this guy and his "people' are out there, using geiger counters and trying to tell the story. A good part of his stories come straight from TEPCO's mouth. Look back too for something that are going on. Something gets posted ther all the time and in reality, the news is moving very fast there. it is obvious that there is current problem that did not exist last week going on....

[FBaggins]

18. Maybe because it's neither "major" nor a "story"

Except to the extent that "story" implies an entirely fictional and fabricated event.

Seriously? Intermittent wisps of water vapor nowhere near the spent fuel pool is supposed to be a precursor to a fuel pool criticality? And we're supposed to believe that these guys are "experts"?

[RobertEarl]

23. Tepco press release: Rising steam seen on cams

http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu-news/2013/1233248_5304.html

In Japanese... get it translated if you can't read Japanese.

So, it is official. What seems to be the case is that the blown up reactor's melted core is contacting water. Yes, Tepco is pouring water down on the core. And the reason they do that is the core is still hot. Put water on something really hot, and what do you get? Steam! That's your science lesson for the day, Baggins.

[FBaggins]

25. Nobody is challenging that there have been intermittent whisps of vapor

Incorrect to call it "steam"... but that's another discussion.

What seems to be the case is that the blown up reactor's melted core is contacting water.

Ah... nope. It only means that water is contacting a warm surface. The core has been "contacting water" for years now (since they've been pouring water in there all along).

And the reason they do that is the core is still hot.

There's no evidence that it's "hot". The temperature has been measured and reported in there for years now... and hasn't been anywhere close to boiling in quite some time. But it certainly has been high enough to put off a visible "steam" at the right temperature and humidity. Note that these "steam" events have reportedly always followed rain.

That's your science lesson for the day, Baggins.

And here's yours - note that the surface doesn't need to be anywhere close to the boiling point of water (let alone the melting point of uranium)

[RobertEarl]

27. Eh, FB, core not hot?

Everything that gets close to the corium melts. Say FB, where is the corium? You don't know do you? If you did you'd tell us wouldn't you?

But you do say there is "There's no evidence that it's "hot". Eh? Wtf? No evidence the nuclear reactor core is hot? You did not write that!! Oh, wait, yes you did!!

Time for you to retire, Mr. "There's no evidence that it's (the melted nuclear reactor core) "hot". Good gawd almighty!! Unfucking believable the twisted phrases you write, eh?

[Bonobo]

30. No one knows where the corium is except you apparently.

Who declared that this steam is the result of water contacting it. Weird...

[RobertEarl]

49. One nuclear expert does know where the cores are

Sorry, I know you hate Enenews. But this is an interesting report from a well known nuclear expert that tells us what's happening with the core from reactor #3.



Nuclear Expert: Fukushima reactor cores melted right down into the ground — That radioactive material is getting washed out into Pacific Ocean

http://enenews.com/nuclear-expert-fukushima-reactor-cores-melted-down-ground-radioactive-material-being-washed-pacific-ocean-audio

[longship]

54. Note: nuclear expert is likely to be Arnie Gundersen.

I leave it others to validate his self-claimed expertease. Needless to say, his Fukushima pronouncements have come into question. Many of them have been utter bunkum.

[RobertEarl]

55. You didn't even read the link

Geez, for someone who goes on and on about other people and what they report, you don't even read the link and start talking about something you have no clue about.

Damn, this Fukushima stuff really draws them out of the woodwork, eh, patterson?

[longship]

56. I don't need to read your links.

I'm done with you, again. I know what you're about.

Bye.

[FBaggins]

67. Stunningly wrong

Everything that gets close to the corium melts.

What gave you that idea? Have you by any chance seen what's left of the corium at Chernobyl? No cooling at all and a FAR hotter starting point... yet it isn't doing anything (and stopped long before burning down to the water table).

Say FB, where is the corium? You don't know do you? If you did you'd tell us wouldn't you?

For unit #3, the best estimate is that some of it is at the bottom of the primary containment and some of it is still in the RPV. Guesses go back and forth regarding how much of it is in each place - but no serious estimate comes close to what you seem to assume.

But you do say there is "There's no evidence that it's "hot". Eh? Wtf? No evidence the nuclear reactor core is hot? You did not write that!! Oh, wait, yes you did!! - Unfucking believable the twisted phrases you write

Nothing "twisted" at all... it's a straighforward statement. I'm not sure that I can make it any simpler for you. Yes, there is zero evidence that it's hot. There are mutiple temperature gauges inside each containment and the temperatures have been comfortably below 100 celcius. That's plenty warm enough to turn liquid water into a visible "steam" when the humidity is high enough and the temperature is low enough - but it isn't anywhere close to "hot" (particularly when your notion of "hot" includes still-molten corium).

[Bonobo]

26. I read Japanese

Which part of that website are you referring to? Perhaps I can help if you want to know specifically what it says.

[madokie]

3. Thanks for the link

I'll be sliding some money his way.

[FBaggins]

16. He and Hannum thank you.

[madokie]

20. whatever you think mr FBaggins

what ever you think

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Perhaps, they have had steam release

but here is my BS detector in full throttle, it takes a week to ten days for that to reach NA. So start there, and that is the limit of what I will say about this here any longer.

[malaise]

8. Good point but I've been seeing stuff about this steam for a few days now

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. So have I, but all seem to come from the same source

and all claim two to three days.

There is no doubt in my mind that TEPCO is not telling all, but this one has a tad of a BS flavor to me. The problem is, if we have a real emergency (or when) if people buy this crap and realize they were duped...

[RobertEarl]

21. Tepco press release: Days of steam seen

Y'know when you go outside when it's cold and you can see your breath? That is technically: water vapor. Sometimes you don't see it. Yep, sometimes there is so little water vapor in the air that your breath just gets absorbed. Poof! When the air is saturated with water vapor, your breath does not get rapidly absorbed and you can see it.

Ok, that's your water vapor lesson.

Now, Tepco has admitted to steam/water vapor rising from #3. It has been rising all along, but the atmosphere absorbed most of it before the camera could see it rising. I have seen it rising many times on the cam.

Why it is steaming so much? The melted core. It melted back in 3/11 and is still hot, still melting. When water gets close the water turns into vapor and if the air is just right it creates clouds of vapor. Usually it is very hard to see the vapor. Usually.

As to the story that "Fukushima could blow any minute!!" Well, it could. Nobody really knows what will happen. Heck, not everyone even knows what did happen. The only people coming up with what DID happen are all nuclear pros who Tepco hasn't gotten to yet.

Some might even show up and trash me for the quote above: "Fukushima could blow any minute".. Readers will note that 3 years ago those same people were pretty much the same who were saying "Nukes are totally safe. They can't blow up. Except for the dumb Russian reactors, hahaha". So, take their trash talk with a grain of salt. But not Fukushima plutonium salt, I hope. That stuff will kill you.

So..... nothing has changed much except that there are more people than ever looking at Fukushima. Just recently, Japan let the US take some kind of official role. What that role is no one is sure. But our Secretary of Energy, recently appointed by Obama, went over there and told them, and us, and everyone, in no uncertain terms: "This is an international crisis". So, finally we are in and on the case. That is one reason I think that Tepco issued their mea culpa: Steam is rising.

Tepco steam Link, in Japanese, get bing to translate:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu-news/2013/1233248_5304.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I will repeat myself

TEPCO is lying through it's teeth. This story, radiation will reach NA in two days is BS. It takes 7-10 for air circulation to reach NA.

Is it steaming? Yes. Is it leaking water that is highly contaminated, yes. This particular story does no good. Are we clear?

[RobertEarl]

24. No. Not clear.

With the steam rising from contact with the core are also particles rising that are radiating what ever was in the corium. Corium being what the core is and what it has melted, on it's journey down through containment, into the earth.

All along we have seen waves of contamination from Fukushima. Three cores are still venting to the atmosphere going on 33 months now. The alert from the OP is a sound alert. But such has been the case for 33 months now. But hey, we're still alive!! Sea life, etc., not so much. Is it radiation killing sea life? Could be. Could be the radiation is messing with immune systems and making life weaker and more susceptible to pathogens, etc. They do live in the water 24 hours a day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Well, we know the sea stars started dying off

Before Fukushima. That we know. They even think they know what pathogen it is. Again, it precedes Fukushima.

Here, a solid article on star fish wasting disease

http://www.eeb.ucsc.edu/pacificrockyintertidal/data-products/sea-star-wasting/

As you can see, it does precede the accident by a few decades

That said, due to bio concentration tuna is off the menu, so is shrimp. And I love sea food. But yup, we know cesium is in it. So why search for a hot particle with lunch?

So no, not everything is due to it. At least not directly. Some is plain out climate change and changes in water columns in the ocean. Oh that does precede Fuku as well.

Big, really big picture here, we are making a mess of things and Fuku is just one part of the equation. And this particular article is a diservice to anybody trying to warn a population. Two days, possible, if wind columns and systems started to move at Jupiter speeds.

[RobertEarl]

33. No. Not a disservice

Good to see some Truth spread. The cores could erupt again at any time. Complacency is the enemy, and to try and whitewash Fukushima and tear down the alerters is not good. Heck, look at how many times people have ragged you. So why are you doing what you complain about?!?!?1

The Pacific. It has been a dumping ground for all kinds of nuke wastes for years and years. The doses of nuke waste in the pacific are going up, up, up. And the time the waste 'lives' is long lasting. Distance? No distance for the sea life, they are in it 24/7.

I have a link somewhere that states: The nuke contamination testers in Alaska, set there years ago after nuke tests, have been testing sea life every five years. They tested in, I think, 2012, and found contamination from Fuku, via the cesium 134. 134 has a short life so it can be used to determine origin.

Other tests found an increase of other isotopes. The most alarming was the increase of plutonium in a specie of mussel. Hey, guess what preys on mussels? Another link says starfish. Hmmmmm, goes the science wheel.

Read all that, with links, on ENEnews.com. Go there and type 'mussels' in the search engine and you will find all the sourced links about which I just reported.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Yes, it's a disservice

You see, I know the wind column moves from the Eastern Pacific to the west coast anywhere from 7-10 days. It tells me that this cloud will reach from the Eastern Pacific to NA in two, tops three days. Anybody trying to hysterically warn me of something that is impossible, currently, on the surface of planet earth, will receive a plain out bull shit award from me, and get this quickly discounted.

Also, it is linking to Tepco's home page. That's nice and dandy, right now there is zero on steam on it, but on removal of rods. This is strike two.

As to cesium, we know it's in the fish. You think only Alaska is doing that testing? As I said, I love sea food, and it is good for my heart, not anymore.

As to the star fish, I guess they got that plutonium in them in the 1980s. Or it could be what they have identified as a wonderful bacteria that cyclically affects them. I don't know, it could be part of the life cycle of these critters...since gee, it's been seen before. It is not new. Once again, here...

http://www.eeb.ucsc.edu/pacificrockyintertidal/data-products/sea-star-wasting/

Look, enews is a good news aggregator, most of the time, this particular story requires me to believe that the jet stream moves at Jupiter speeds, not earth speeds. It is bunk. It is also hysterical and highly irresponsible.

[RobertEarl]

37. A little hyperbolic

But not a big deal. Not like you are trying to make it.

See, I don't post stories like the OP report. Get enough flack as it is, and now flack from you! Screw that. Most of my reports are actually relatively conservative: Just the facts, Mam. With some flavoring... like you do.

A little hyperbolic about this situation --Fukushima, is not a real disservice. It pushes awareness and that's a good thing, Heck, you've learned a lot from just our discussion here, eh?

Don't, as they say, throw out the baby with the bath water. Or whatever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Not flack

Critical thinking. I read that article when it started to spread like wild fire, and started punching holes this fast. I know TEPCO is lying, but this article will turn people off this fast

[RobertEarl]

36. Info on Pacific testing... from Enenews.com

Amchitka Island, Alaska, Biological Monitoring Report 2011 Sampling Results, September 2013: To determine what [Fukushima Dai-ichi's] direct release of radioactive materials into the atmosphere might have contributed to the background radiation on Amchitka and Adak Islands, semiquantitative gamma spectrometry measurements were made [...] The results imply that Dolly Varden [a type of fish], rockweed, and to a lesser extent, Irish lord [a type of fish] appear to contain a significant cesium isotope signature from Fukushima Dai-ichi. The estimated 134Cs/137Cs activity ratios in pooled fauna samples at the time sampled ranged from <30 to about 60 percent. Observations of Fukushima-derived fallout impacting on this region are supported by findings of elevated levels of 134Cs (and 137Cs) in lichen and soil collected from both the Adak and Amchitka regions. [...]

Lichen sample from mid-2011 expressed in picocuries/kilogram — Lichen on the island had less than 70 pCi/kg of Cs-137 in 1997.

Department of Energy: Biological Monitoring at Amchitka Appears to Show Impacts from Fukushima Dai-ichi Incident [...] The U.S. Department of Energy Office Legacy Management (LM) has a long-term stewardship mission to protect human health and the environment from the legacy of underground nuclear testing conducted at Amchitka Island, Alaska, from 1965 to 1971. [...] Atmospheric monitoring in the United States showed elevated cesium activities shortly after the [Fukushima] nuclear incident. LM scientists anticipated that atmospheric transport of cesium would potentially increase the cesium activities in the 2011 biological samples collected near Amchitka. Because cesium-134 has a relatively short half-life of 2 years and indicates leakage from a nuclear reactor, it is a clear indicator of a recent nuclear accident [...] Because the Amchitka 2011 sampling event occurred soon after the Fukushima nuclear accident, the biota impacted by atmospheric precipitation showed the greatest impact (e.g., species that live in freshwater or shallow ocean waters) when compared to marine biota living in deeper water. This is because ocean currents are a slower transport process than wind currents. LM scientists anticipate that the marine biota will show the impacts of Fukushima during the next sampling event, currently scheduled to occur in 2016.

<sampling numbers found down in thread. Taken from above referenced report>

* Plutonium-239 — .039 pCi/kg Dolly Varden
* Plutonium-239 — .186 pCi/kg Goose Egg no shell
* Plutonium-239 — .104 pCi/kg Gull egg
* Plutonium-239 — .298 pCi/kg Chiton
* Plutonium-239 — .093 pCi/kg Dragon Kelp
* Plutonium-239 — .084 pCi/kg Rockweed
* Plutonium-239 — .379 pCi/kg Greeling
* Plutonium-239 — .038 pCi/kg Halibut
* Plutonium-239 — 4.194 pCi/kg Horse Mussel tissue
* Plutonium-239 — .378 pCi/kg Irish Lord
* Plutonium-239 — .036 pCi/kg Octopus
* Plutonium-239 — .05 pCi/kg Pacific Cod
* Plutonium-239 — .279 pCi/kg Rockfish
* Plutonium-239 — .152 pCi/kg Reindeer Lichen
* Plutonium-239 — .195 pCi/kg Sea Urchin

* Plutonium-240 — .039 pCi/kg Dolly Varden
* Plutonium-240 — .106 pCi/kg Goose Egg no shell
* Plutonium-240 — .069 pCi/kg Gull egg
* Plutonium-240 — .149 pCi/kg Chiton
* Plutonium-240 — .037 pCi/kg Dragon Kelp
* Plutonium-240 — .02 pCi/kg Rockweed
* Plutonium-240 — .189 pCi/kg Greeling
* Plutonium-240 — .012 pCi/kg Halibut
* Plutonium-240 — 2.097 pCi/kg Horse Mussel tissue
* Plutonium-240 — .189 pCi/kg Irish Lord
* Plutonium-240 — .021 pCi/kg Octopus
* Plutonium-240 — .015 pCi/kg Pacific Cod
* Plutonium-240 — .139 pCi/kg Rockfish
* Plutonium-240 — .091 pCi/kg Reindeer Lichen
* Plutonium-240 — .117 pCi/kg Sea Urchin

Link on ENEnews.com. (not a hot link, was on my computer) this was the title. Should help with your search?
us-govt-headline-alaska-island-appears-to-show-impacts-from-fukushima-significant-cesium-isotope-signature-detected-video.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. And I see you will go out of your way

To discount what Santa Cruz is doing.

So here from the WAPO

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/sea-stars-are-wasting-away-in-larger-numbers-on-a-wider-scale-in-two-oceans/2013/11/22/05652194-4be1-11e3-be6b-d3d28122e6d4_story.html

Yes, plutonium is at Cold War levels, but big picture here, you can do this, there are other rational explanations as well. And no, we are not going to get a cloud full of hot particles across the pacific in two to three days, at least not on modern day Earth.

And how do you explain the Atlantic?

You keep telling people that there is science here. Indeed there is, wasting disease among star fish is not something new. If it was, you'd have a point to draw a direct line to the accident. The best you could do, and I do not see you doing the research, is a very indirect link. This would require the testing of wasting star fish for hot particles. So until them, I am left with Occam's razor here. Wasting disease has a well known explanation, it is not new.

And the article you keep pointing to that we will have a cloud in NA is unrelenting and impossible bullshit on the surface of the current Earth we live on. The wind speeds implied in that are not compatible with current life systems on the surface of the planet. Hurricane speeds does not begin to describe it.

Why that article is not just BS, but a disservice and you should stop quoting it. And I will not go into who is the originator of this one. Suffice it to say his scientific credentials are non whatsoever. It be best to stop spreading that shit.

[RobertEarl]

41. You and I are not on the same page, it seems

Whatever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Not on this particular one, no we are not.

I live on the bloody pacific coast. I am literally down wind from Fukushima. Alas I will not believe everything I read on the inter tubes. So you know, this particular story was started by a far right wing conspiracy theorist who believes in Eugenics.

I recommend you do some research into this guy

http://www.turnerradionetwork.com/news/146-mjt

Oh and it seems Gundersen is not behind this loon either.

http://enenews.com/gundersen-very-visible-steam-releases-at-fukushima-unit-3-are-radioactive-coming-from-hot-rubble-not-new-meltdown-or-explosion

[Bonobo]

43. Furthermore

For the radioactivity in the steam to reach you, wouldn't it have to reach the jet stream at at least 33,000 km above the earth?

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. We know the radioactivity per Alaska station

(As well as California) can reach Cold War levels.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/radiation-from-japan-nuclear-plant-arrives-on-alaska-coast-1.2335668

But that is more from the water circulation than air. The reason, ejecta right now is not reaching the wind stream. We haven't had an explosion again. It did after the initial explosion and we did have a cloud of hot shit come over us, starting seven days into the incident. (Ironically that is when a bunch of Geiger counters went off line, coincidence? I don't believe in them)

Right now some particles might be rising that high, unlikely but benefit of doubt and all that...sure, minimal at best. So most of the crap reaching North America is coming with the water and high level predators, like tuna. As is, whatever is escaping in the steam hardly is reaching 30k feet, but is falling on the water, and reaching NA that way. We are in a closed system, so it's gotta go somewhere.


The longer this continues, the higher concentrations in the life systems, and the more effects on the environment. Japan will see much higher rates of cancer, and we will see just higher rates in the West Coast as well.

Due to distance the rates in NA will be lower than in Japan, but in the measurable range. The children who were playing out when the hot cloud came over will be the ones with the highest spikes just from the Chernobyl experience.

Japan was lucky that prevailing winds took most of that crap to sea, but it's rates will be much higher due to how close.

My true nightmare is if we have another explosion or two due to criticality. The steam is getting generated. TEPCO does have that from time to time, so if this becomes a daily occurrence, or we have another killer quake. I don't want to start counting the ways that could go wrong.

[Bonobo]

31. What do YOU think the press release says?

Please just copy the Japanese that you think you are interested in and we can all take a look. There are several things in the page that you linked to and I have not seen what you are pointing to because you are being vague.

What do you think it says? I am a Japanese - English translator.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Currently it is on rod removal

It was on steam a few days ago.

[Bonobo]

38. Yes

That's why I was asking him what he THINKS he is seeing.

[Blue_In_AK]

9. I've made a conscious decision

not to freak out over Fukushima because it is totally 100% out of my control. I'm not about to encase myself in 6 mil plastic and duct tape any time soon. We all have to die someday, somehow, and if this turns out to be the means by which I leave this mortal coil, so be it.

[malaise]

11. Makes sense but I like to know what's happening on the planet n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

14. Oh, so do I,

but I'm not going to get all panicky about it like my husband does. He's all the time reading me articles and worrying "oh, no, we're doomed," etc. etc. I just refuse to waste my time fretting about it. It is what it is, and I have the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. We took the measures we could take

when the accident first happened. And I will never forget the idiots here, they know who they are.

After that, there is pretty little we can do at this point. And if I am going to die from this, like you, so be it.

I suspect that we will see cancer rates go up in the next ten years all over the West Coast of the US, Canada and at least the northern part of Mexico. Chances are all three national health services will try to stop any connection to the accident. And if it is an adult, like me, ok. It is the children that really bother me.

And anyway, the plastic will do little with some of them.

So ce la vie.



But this story, has my BS detector going off, hard.

[Vinnie From Indy]

12. Everything else aside, "FUKUSHIMA STEAM" would be a cool name for a band.

The band that will literally melt your face!

[Blue_In_AK]

15. I like it.

Punk rock, right? Industrial metal?

[Bonobo]

17. I truly think this is a balanced, fair and good source.

http://fukushimaupdate.com/debunking-reactor-3-steam-alarmism/

This addresses the steam issue.

If you read through the blog, I am certain you will agree with me that it is fair and independent and well-balanced.

[malaise]

19. Thanks Bonobo

[bhikkhu]

29. That looks like a good source

as far as the "voice of russia" in the OP, I have my doubts. I made the mistake of following a russian news site for information during the second Iraq war, and it was like an alternate reality. At the time it was what I wanted to hear, but then once you find out you've been duped and spoonfed utter nonsense while the real world passed you by unnoticed - not doing that again.

[Bonobo]

32. Too many people are looking as hard as they can to find the most apocalyptic wackery they can.

And from my POV, it is sad because it is an actual event here and we are not helped in ANY WAY by the spreading of quackery, wackery and woo.

[stevenleser]

44. Here is where you would see the increased radioactivity in two days if it occurs

http://radiationnetwork.com/

I'm betting it wont.

[NYC_SKP]

45. You can trust bonobo's link, malaise.

I've been following this, as I follow most energy new items.

Please please don't believe anything that comes from ENEnews, it's tripe and propaganda.

Steam is easily created. Heck, you can get water vapor just from atmospheric conditions. In this case it's more likely heat from hot fuel, but it doesn't signal meltdown.

There are 1,533 fuel rod assemblies at the plant, each weigh 661 pounds, that's about 500 tons total. No way anything is going to blow 89 tons of that in our direction.

As for the severity of concentrations of radioactive materials reaching us, well the science of dissipation tells us that the danger decreases exponentially with distance which is no great comfort in the long term, but is comfortable evidence that the claims made at ENEnews and elsewhere are largely bogus.

We need to help Japan clean this mess up, it is serious, but no, there's not going to be widespread ruin in North America over this.

Happy New Year!

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. The problem with enews is that it is a true news aggregator

As such it will gather anything that has Fukushima in the title am afraid. So it will pick up Turner's little turd, with Gunderson shooting it to pieces. Most on the web is increasingly bad reporting, ergo it will pick up bad reporting.

RT picking this up, I had to smile. They just love Fuku, it allows them to bad mouth Japan, the Kuril Islands come to mind, and go...see Chernobyl was not that bad!!!!

We watched their coverage during the disaster. Knowing how to spot the propaganda, a different version of spot the looney, was all kinds of fun. Yes, we love that punishment. Though I felt sorry for one young reporter, in the pursuit of the loon, IMHO, he got too close. Funny, he's not been on air for a while. I wonder if he got real sick?

[NYC_SKP]

48. Worse, they are a propagandist selective aggregator, without an iota of integrity.

They have posted articles that used NOAA images of wave heights from the tsunami and labeled them radioactive fallout maps.

I'm with you, I have no use for them whatsoever.

Happy New Year!

[RobertEarl]

50. Hahaha, Skip

Last edited Thu Jan 9, 2014, 10:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Speaking of lack of integrity how's your protection of that lady who thought protesters at nuke plants should be "shot and discarded"?

Skip's quote: "Sorry that your post was hidden, Hell, I'm sorry it was even alerted on."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=61462

You thought that her saying a protestor should be 'shot and discarded' shouldn't have even garnered an alert? WTH, Skip. Do you hate protestors? Or is it just nuke protestors that you think should be shot and discarded?

This, friends, is the post that the reply which was deleted was in reply too.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=61428

I'd have to say that anything Skip tells you.... be careful.

[Bonobo]

51. That link makes it pretty clear that the poster was NOT saying she SHOULD be shot.

Your attempt at smearing NYCSkip is pretty weak, obvious and shameful.

Aren't you the one that cries all the time about personal attacks?

[RobertEarl]

53. The post was hidden

Have you noticed I have been ignoring you?

Old saying we have here: "Don't get down in the dirt and fight with a pig. Both of you get dirty and only the pig likes it.'

You bring nothing to these discussions.

[Bonobo]

57. Lol. You ignore poorly. Nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. So how do you deal with Arnie Gundersen

Saying this article is bunk? The proof of a critical thinker is to separate the wheat from the chaff. ENews does not do it, so you have to.

I guess Ernie is a flack too, for not getting behind a pretty lame attempt at a panic.

[RobertEarl]

62. Did you hear?

The health department somewhere down your way went out on the Pacific beach with a Geiger counter.

They can't say why, but the damn thing counted background levels 5 times higher than 'normal'.

Guess where I saw that news report....

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. The actual news paper?

It's not from wind, unless we are now on the surface of Jupiter. So I guess Arnie Gundersen is a flack to you too.

What amazes me is that your hero is Aldo Leopold. He was a critical thinker. You might want to try that. He would be laughing at that poor attempt from a eugenicist to create a panic. I know I am. It is a poor attempt at best. There was no explosion, per Gundersen, we know, he is now a flack and your enemy, this was not the case.

No, Fuku is not going to destroy the world all on it's lonesome. There are a few things that could accomplish that feat. They are not on planet earth, nor under human control. So if we have one of those reach the planet, it will be a really bad day, and an ELE. Fuku is not even close to that.

[RobertEarl]

64. What are you on about?

Like I say, we're not even on the same page, it seems.

And your fascination with moi is weird. It's almost like you think we are in competition.

Being as there is so much bs about Arnie Gunderson, I'll just let Arnie speak for himself. One can read his website, if they want.

Fuku, being the worst 'accident' that was just waiting to happen and sure as heck did happen, is the largest single point emitter of man-made pollutants we have ever experienced. The best one can do is read the signs, which is what science is: sign reading. Or one can, if one is so disposed, to hide their heads in the sand.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. On it's lonesome

Is not an extinction level event.

Is it the worst accident of the Industrial Age? Yes.

Do we need a panic? No.

Is it the source if all going wrong in the world? Hell no.

Perspective, critical thinking, separating wheat (rare these days at enews) from chaff.

Is this the kind of burst that would sterilize the planet? Nope.

And I am not fixated with you. I just have a serious problem with bad reporting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. What I mean by a true news aggregator

Is it is almost no human action after the spiders were programmed. It just does. The article that Russia today picked up comes from a less than good source. Any human interaction with any knowledge of the most basic, such as wind speeds, would have caught that as a hoax. They have really no editor.

So some articles are really good, some are horrendously bad. And when readers trust a source without thinking, that is a problem. A great example is the star fish issue. UC Santa Cruz is doing the research. Nowhere in their research is Fukushima mentioned, they are not picked up. But strange die off articles are.

[NYC_SKP]

59. Oh, I thought you meant like Drudge or Huffington Post (both depend on other's content)

BTW, what do you think of the radiation findings at beaches in Half Moon Bay, up by me?

http://www.hmbreview.com/news/health-officials-respond-to-beach-radiation-scare/article_8c7e7fb0-74de-11e3-9c9d-001a4bcf887a.html

I tend to think it very unlikely that the high readings would be Japanese in origin, and more likely of local, background, or some other effect.

Here's another from Scientific American about kelp off Long Beach.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=radioactive-iodine-from-from-fukushima-found-in-california-kelp

Levels of radioactive iodine were 250 times normal but kelp biomagnifies levels by 10,000 times.

The stuff is reaching us, but the significance of it's effects is misunderstood and definitely misreported.

.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Longer life is reaching us

It is at Cold War levels best case already. It will have a slight effect in cancer rates.

Now things like tuna are off the menu for me. Bioconcentration is the problem here.

And huff post at least produces some material.

[Bonobo]

52. Even Fukushima Diary rejects this Steam bullshit.

And Fukushima Diary is pretty out there at times.

http://fukushima-diary.com/2014/01/column-reactor3-hoax-and-fukushima-exploiters/

Since the end of 2013, the hoax has been going around on the internet to say reactor3 is having meltdown. (It’s molten already.)



I immediately denied the rumor on Facebook but haven’t made an official statement on Fukushima Diary itself.



From my observation, the mess started from the article of Enenews to say reactor3 was still steaming multiple times in December, which is correct. (It’s not the fault of Enenews.)



The “steam” has been observed at least since this July. Since then, it has been observed almost everyday. From the frequency of the “steam”, I assume it is the evaporated coolant water leaking out of primary containment vessel (I don’t think it’s evaporated rainwater retained on the top of PCV because it was observed even if it doesn’t rain for a long time.). We got to see it because Tepco removed the major debris from the top of reactor3. Probably it has been coming up since just after 311. Sure it’s extremely radioactive. Nobody can stand on the top of reactor3, and it’s harmful for west coast. However, it’s been so for these 3 years.



I made at least 30 articles related to the “steam”. Here are the posts. They are actually all about the “steam”.



7/18/2013 [Breaking] Tepco “Steam / Gas coming up from the top of reactor3, ambient dose and dust not verified” [URL]

7/18/2013 Steam still coming up from reactor3 at 13:00 JST / Tepco prepared to inject boric acid [URL 2]

7/18/2013 [Timely] M3.5 hit Fukushima offshore at 15:10 7/18/2013 (JST) [URL 3]

7/18/2013 [Column] What could have happened to reactor3 ? [URL 4]

7/18/2013 Tepco to hold an extraordinary press conference about reactor3 “steam” at the headquarters [URL 5]

7/18/2013 [Video] “Steam” from the top of reactor3 building [URL 6]

7/18/2013 [Steaming reactor3] Tepco “The steam is the heated rain, same thing happened last year but didn’t report it” [URL 7]

7/19/2013 Cs-134 detected from “steam” in reactor3 / Tepco “not sure if it was rain” [URL 8]

7/21/2013 Tepco “Steaming area of reactor3 is 18~25℃ by thermography on 7/20/2013″ [URL 9]

7/22/2013 Thermography shows 50℃ on operation floor of “steaming” reactor3 [URL 10]

7/23/2013 [Nothing settled] Steam from reactor3 again [URL 11]

7/23/2013 [Breaking] 2.2 Sv/h from the top of reactor3, 562 mSv/h from the steam [URL 12]

7/23/2013 [Timely] 2 of the 2 dust radiation monitoring systems down in reactor2 [URL 13]

7/24/2013 Reactor3 steaming again / Over 1 Sv/h at 6 of 25 locations on the operation floor [URL 14]

7/25/2013 [Steaming reactor3] Thermography shows the steaming area is over 15℃ hotter than atmosphere [URL 15]

7/26/2013 [Steaming reactor3] Tepco “The steam may be from the inside of the reactor, a certain volume of N2 gas is missing” [URL 16]

8/1/2013 Cesium density in reactor3 “steam” higher than the gas inside of PCV [URL 17]

8/4/2013 Reactor3 has steamed for over 1 week [URL 18]

8/4/2013 [Column] Summary of Fukushima situation July~August – The latest problems and the impending crisis [URL 19]

8/5/2013 Reactor3 steaming again [URL 20]

8/6/2013 Steam coming up from reactor3 again / Videos released [URL 21]

8/7/2013 Reactor3 steamed till 9:00AM 8/7/2013 [URL 22]

8/23/2013 Cesium-134/137 level jumped up 10~1,000 times much as average on the top of reactor3 [URL 23]

9/3/2013 Kyoto Uni Prof. “Tritium might be discharged directly from the reactor3 to the atmosphere” [URL 24]

9/13/2013 [Never be fixed] “Steam” came back again on the top of reactor3 [URL 25]

9/15/2013 Steam observed coming up on the top of reactor3 again [URL 26]

9/17/2013 [Steam after typhoon] “Steam” observed from the top of reactor3 again / humidity was only 53% [URL 27]

9/20/2013 Steam found coming up from the top of reactor3 again / Reason is not verified yet [URL 28]

9/26/2013 Tepco “Can’t disclose atmosphere contamination data because the crane is malfunctioning” [URL 29]

9/27/2013 Tepco not to investigate nor take countermeasures for reactor3 “steam” anymore [URL 30]



Anyway, Turner radio something picked up this article of Enenews to warn the west coast to RUN.

The article referred to the picture of reactor3 taken back in 2011. It was quite misleading. If the “author” (I dare not to say “writer”) didn’t recognize what the picture was, the person doesn’t know anything about Fukushima situation. The steam has been visible since July. It wasn’t timely to warn to run, at least not urgent. They should have reported it in July.

[malaise]

66. Never saw this one before today

http://banoosh.com/blog/2014/01/01/36-signs-media-lying-radiation-fukushima-affecting-west-coast/
<snip>
36 Signs The Media Is Lying To You About How Radiation From Fukushima Is Affecting The West Coast
The west coast of the United States is being absolutely fried by radiation from the Fukushima nuclear disaster, and the mainstream media is not telling us the truth about this. What you are about to see is a collection of evidence that is quite startling. Taken collectively, this body of evidence shows that nuclear radiation from Fukushima is affecting sea life in the Pacific Ocean and animal life along the west coast of North America in some extraordinary ways. But the mainstream media continues to insist that we don’t have a thing to worry about. The mainstream media continues to insist that radiation levels in the Pacific and along the west coast are perfectly safe. Are they lying to us? Evaluate the evidence compiled below and come to your own conclusions…

#1 Independent researchers have measured alarmingly high levels of radiation on the beaches of the west coast. For example, the video posted below was taken on December 23rd, 2013 at Pacifica State Beach. As you can see in this video, radiation levels near the water are up to five times higher than normal background radiation…

#2 According to Oceanus Magazine, the total amount of cesium-137 that has been released into the Pacific Ocean from Fukushima is 10,000 to 100,000 times greater than the amount released into the oceans by the Chernobyl disaster or by the atmospheric nuclear weapons tests of the 1960s.

#3 Former MSNBC host Cenk Uygur has admitted that while he was at MSNBC he was instructed not to warn the public about the radiation coming from Fukushima…

“I was on MSNBC at the time when this happened, I said, “Don’t trust what the Japanese government is saying, they’ll say trust what the electric power company is saying. Go, go, go, get outta there. Get as far away from that plant as you can. It’s literally a core meltdown.” And they always don’t want people to panic, so they were always like, “Oh it’s going to be okay.” [...] I’m like, “You’re crazy man, don’t be anywhere near that reactor.” And I remember at the time, of course not at The Young Turks, but on cable news, people were like, “Hey Cenk, you know, I don’t know that you want to say that, because the official government position is that it’s safe.” Oh, is that the official government position? Now go explain that to the people who served on the USS Ronald Reagan.”

#4 71 U.S. sailors who assisted with the initial Fukushima relief efforts have developed serious diseases such as testicular cancer, thyroid cancer, Leukemia, “unremitting gynecological bleeding” and brain tumors since that time as a result of exposure to radiation coming from Fukushima.