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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:23 PM Jan 2014

Let's Jail People For Being Fat

JOSH BARRO

David Brooks, Ruth Marcus, and Tina Brown want to keep laws against marijuana. They're aiming at the wrong target. Really, we should legalize marijuana and throw people in jail for being fat.

By Brooks' and Marcus' own admission, marijuana itself doesn't necessarily have such bad effects. They both smoked quite a bit of it back in the day and still managed highly successful careers as national opinion columnists. Really, they are worried about marijuana's negative second-order effects when other people smoke it.

Marcus worries about effects on IQ. Brooks says weed makes people unambitious and distracts them from "the highest pleasures, like enjoying the arts or being in nature." Brown is the most blunt, tweeting that "legal weed contributes to us being a fatter, dumber, sleepier nation even less able to compete with the Chinese."

Brooks, Marcus, and Brown want to address these negative effects through a regime of criminal penalties that imprisons at least some subset of the people involved in cultivating, distributing and consuming the marijuana that Brooks and Marcus enjoyed so much in the 1970s. (Brown didn't answer my Twitter question about whether she's ever smoked marijuana but, well, she works in publishing, so we can all hazard a guess.)

But why go after marijuana for its second-order effects? Why not just ban stupidity, laziness, obesity, unambitious taste, or whatever social ills are of concern to national opinion columnists? As Brooks asks, "Laws profoundly mold culture, so what sort of community do we want our laws to nurture?" If the answer is "one where people are thin," the obvious answer is to ban fatness.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-not-throw-people-in-jail-for-being-fat-2014-1

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's Jail People For Being Fat (Original Post) n2doc Jan 2014 OP
Now that's "A Modest Proposal" stuff right there NutmegYankee Jan 2014 #1
If anyone is interested, Josh Barro is a hoot on twitter OKNancy Jan 2014 #2
Republicans often believe that the "rabble" can't handle the pleasures they enjoy. last1standing Jan 2014 #3
considering the amount of death and destruction alcohol wreaks on this country, how can KG Jan 2014 #4
"second-oder effects"? bluedigger Jan 2014 #10
I'm like Toucan Sam with that shit. Anybody tokes up anywhere near me and I can follow my nose! nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #24
Ha ha, I feel you. giftedgirl77 Jan 2014 #27
"contact high" NCarolinawoman Jan 2014 #21
I predict that once the government finds a way to regulate drugs Skidmore Jan 2014 #5
Did they ask Michael Phelps how lazy and unambitious it made him? hobbit709 Jan 2014 #6
While it's been a very long time since the 70s, LWolf Jan 2014 #7
that's a great list. nt Voice for Peace Jan 2014 #32
I like to jail people for being stupid SummerSnow Jan 2014 #8
Ha! Rec. progressoid Jan 2014 #9
How's the food in lockup? NaturalHigh Jan 2014 #11
... LittleBlue Jan 2014 #12
Even worse, smoking pot might make Americans want to COOPERATE with the Chinese Matariki Jan 2014 #13
I wonder what would happen yuiyoshida Jan 2014 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #23
Obviously, fried foods are infinitely more harmful than cannabis, jail the fried food pushers, I say grahamhgreen Jan 2014 #14
But where will the stoners go when they get the munchies? Initech Jan 2014 #18
You'll get my French fries and beer-battered fish when you pry 'em from my cold dead hands! nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #25
Same was said 40 years ago - fatter, dumber, sleepier DemLife Jan 2014 #15
Why not just jail the douchebag pundits. nt madinmaryland Jan 2014 #16
well, it's obviously made them dumber than shit....not so in my case. spanone Jan 2014 #19
That's total hogwash. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #22
Who but a complete Teabagger idiot could ever find fault with that list? nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #26
Now that concept is an oxymoron.... FarPoint Jan 2014 #28
No it isn't n2doc Jan 2014 #29
That individual would be the exception. FarPoint Jan 2014 #30
If you legalize pot and put fat people in jail, everybody will be in jail within a couple of years. Warpy Jan 2014 #31
utter tripe.... mike_c Jan 2014 #33
Personally the fact that David Brooks is who he is after smoking pot mythology Jan 2014 #34

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
2. If anyone is interested, Josh Barro is a hoot on twitter
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:29 PM
Jan 2014

I really enjoy following him. He actively engages the kooks. @jbarro

last1standing

(11,709 posts)
3. Republicans often believe that the "rabble" can't handle the pleasures they enjoy.
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:30 PM
Jan 2014

I've known several republicans through the years who have railed against drugs, gambling, drinking, etc... but only for others. These same 'conservatives' did all those things but thought that they were exempt from the laws they foisted on "regular" people.

KG

(28,751 posts)
4. considering the amount of death and destruction alcohol wreaks on this country, how can
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:35 PM
Jan 2014

anybody mock the second-oder effects of weed?

NCarolinawoman

(2,825 posts)
21. "contact high"
Reply to KG (Reply #4)
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 07:18 PM
Jan 2014

I never smoked it, but I certainly went to enough parties in the 70's and remember there was often a group off in the corner taking part. I thought it smelled a lot better (like autumn leaves burning) than tobacco smoke with all those pesticide additives.

By the way, that group in the corner was usually composed of medical students, young doctors, nurses, and I don't remember any of them being carted off to jail.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
5. I predict that once the government finds a way to regulate drugs
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:39 PM
Jan 2014

and gain revenue from them, the wealthy in office will make poverty a crime punishable by imprisonment again. When you have people being herded around because they lack homes, what better way to make them useful if you don't want to create jobs but to imprison them and use their labor that way.

We need to change congress from a country club to a working body.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
7. While it's been a very long time since the 70s,
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 12:48 PM
Jan 2014

I think I remember a bit about my experience with weed and with the people I enjoyed it with.

I don't think it distracted us from enjoyment of nature or the arts; the opposite, in fact. Unambitious? Maybe, if "ambition" is about making your mark or place in an aggressive, competitive, capitalistic society. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing, though. It could be our culture would be a lot healthier if we dialed way down on those characteristics.

Brooks may be right about laws molding culture. I think we just have profoundly different visions for the culture we'd like to see.

What laws might I enact to "mold" the culture I'd like to see? To start with:


1. A carbon tax or deduction. Produce zero biological children? A great big deduction. One child? A moderate deduction. Two kids? No deduction, no tax. More than two biological kids? A carbon tax for every child over two, increasing with each addition.

2. A socialized national health CARE program, guaranteeing physical and mental health care, vision, dental, hospice, home care, prescriptions, and alternative care to every person, free at point of service.

3. A truly 100% public, 100% FREE at point of service education, pre-school through trade school or university, at any point in life, for every person. No privatization, no high-stakes testing, the public education system designed and managed by actual EDUCATORS.

4. Expanded social security, starting earlier and paying more.

5. Guaranteed clean, safe shelter and minimal income to every person, regardless of circumstance.

6. A restorative justice system, offering re-training and rehabilitation to all offenders, and long-term or permanent incarceration only for those who pose a danger to others. All those incarcerated, long or short term, treated with dignity and humanity, and guaranteed safety, healthy food, and whatever other services they need to learn to function well with others. Corporate criminals required to use their assets to restore the lives of those they damaged.

7. Energy production and distribution all public, not-for-profit.

8. Free, fully-funded and developed, easy and convenient public transportation systems everywhere.

9. A guaranteed LIVING wage.

10. Labor unions required for all jobs; strict, and strictly enforced, labor regulations.

11. Strict, and strictly enforced, environmental regulations.

12. The end of "free" trade; a trade system based on strict labor and environmental standards.

That's a start.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
13. Even worse, smoking pot might make Americans want to COOPERATE with the Chinese
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 03:41 PM
Jan 2014

instead of 'compete'. You know, all working together to solve the world's problems and such.

yuiyoshida

(41,818 posts)
17. I wonder what would happen
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 06:06 PM
Jan 2014

If we sold pot to the Chinese? You know who really needs it, its North Korea!

Response to yuiyoshida (Reply #17)

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
14. Obviously, fried foods are infinitely more harmful than cannabis, jail the fried food pushers, I say
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 04:31 PM
Jan 2014

Initech

(100,029 posts)
18. But where will the stoners go when they get the munchies?
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 06:08 PM
Jan 2014

One cannot live off Fritos, Oreos, Pringles, and Cheetos for eternity!

 

DemLife

(33 posts)
15. Same was said 40 years ago - fatter, dumber, sleepier
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jan 2014

All will be fine. And worse during the days when reefer madness came out.

Response to n2doc (Original post)

FarPoint

(12,276 posts)
28. Now that concept is an oxymoron....
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 08:24 PM
Jan 2014

Have you ever reviewed the meal choices in jail? The calorie count is the meal planning goal...thus almost all carbohydrates and the protein is almost always turkey....made to look like another protein.

Then...limited physical activity....essentially sedimentary activity compounded with boredom. Jail is stressful too....ultimately many choose to by commissary food items that are high in empty, fattening calories....to feel better from the stress.

Jailhouse weight gain is inevitable.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
29. No it isn't
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 08:28 PM
Jan 2014

I have a family member who went to jail for a year. Lost 40 pounds. I would not recommend it as a diet plan.

Warpy

(111,123 posts)
31. If you legalize pot and put fat people in jail, everybody will be in jail within a couple of years.
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 08:43 PM
Jan 2014

Remember the munchies?

mike_c

(36,267 posts)
33. utter tripe....
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 09:38 PM
Jan 2014

I'm a reasonably fit (for 60-ish, ok) academic research scientist, builder, and artist. Some of those conservatives who fear the personal effects of legal cannabis send their kids to me for a university education.

I'm a lifelong stoner, too. Started smoking cannabis when I was 15 years old, in 1970. Although I've certainly learned the truth of the old saying over the years that "pot will get you through times with no money better than money will get you through times with no pot," by and large I've used cannabis nearly daily for almost 45 years. That is certainly true of the past 25 years, when I've had the means to keep myself in good stash while working in a profession that has utter disdain for things like drug testing. (At this point in my career I don't have any currently open federal grants, so nah nah about all those Reaganesque "drug free workplace" pledges .)

The point is that I'm not fat, I'm not stupid, I'm not without personal ambition, and I'm not "sleepy." I don't remember the last time I was actually bored because, in spite of what Mr. Brown might think, I always have half a dozen NEW projects underway simultaneously because I LOVE new challenges. I've been a productive academic and scientist, an innovative teacher whose contributions to the profession are recognized institutionally, a labor activist and officer in my faculty union, and I've had a kick-ass good time doing it, too. I'm not an occasional cannabis user by anyone's definition.

Every. Day. For decades.

Get used to it, America. We're here. We're the drug criminals who give the lie to every half-baked uninformed nonsensical pronouncement about the "moral landscape" of prohibition and the intellectual desert of stonerdom.

I live in California's Emerald Triangle, where obtaining cannabis is trivial, but it is still nominally illegal absent a Prop. 215 certification. That will change very soon. Prohibition is ending, and unlike the repeal of short lived alcohol prohibition, the repeal of cannabis prohibition will do FAR more good than harm.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
34. Personally the fact that David Brooks is who he is after smoking pot
Sat Jan 4, 2014, 09:43 PM
Jan 2014

gives me yet another reason to not smoke pot. Most of the people I've known who have smoked pot regularly weren't the sort of people I wanted to emulate because of the fact that most of them were lazy, unmotivated and wasted their potential. Similarly, the people I've known who drink regularly are much the same. So I don't hang out with them.

That said, it's more than silly that pot is classified alongside heroin. It should be legal because as long as it doesn't harm others directly and isn't dangerous like heroin, cocaine or meth, then there's no reason for it to be illegal.



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