If Pope Francis were to be assassinated, admit it. Some of you already *know* it was a Conspiracy.

[Silent3]

A capital-C Conspiracy that is, not just two or more run-of-the-mill zealots colluding with each other.

(1) I don't deny that a Big Conspiracy is possible, perhaps even likely. Pope Francis is certainly making enemies in high places.

But I also think it's the kind of crime easily committed by a lone assailant, working completely on his/her own. Francis seems to love moving around out among the people, in ways I suspect often leave his personal security somewhat lacking.

No matter how possible it is for one person to plan and carry out such an attack, however, if the news reports that it's a lone gunman, you won't believe it.

You will not. You can not. Everything that could point to that simple explanation will seem contrived to you, untrustworthy. It will be the "official story", which is, in and of itself, a damning comment. The "official story" is always and only for suckers.

You will find "inconsistencies". Someone will have said something the day before that sure sounds like it foreshadows the upcoming event. Perhaps a few more cardinals than usual will be in Vatican City at the time, "clearly" there to be ready for the next papal election. Some transfer of funds within the Church will seem very suspicious. Some billionaire CEO will have recently met with some archbishop. There will be unexplained sounds. There will be odd glints and shimmers and puffs of smoke found in videos, played endlessly on YouTube with arrows and red circles drawn in to point them out.

Further, I marked item (1) for a reason. I can say (1) as many times as I like, but if I express any skepticism about the inevitable would-be conspiracy theories, you will either ignore that I have said (1), or treat it as a throw-away disclaimer. You'll be sure that I must actually be a shill or a dupe for the dreaded "official story", totally unwilling to question authority, like you so bravely do.

If anyone calls you a conspiracy nut for whatever wild theories you spin for what "really" happened, you'll snap at them, asking them what's wrong with "questioning" the official story. It will be clear from your tone and attitude, however, that your "questioning" is really damn near 100% certainty that only a big plot motivated by evil corporations, corrupt governments, and threatened church conservatives could have done it.

Lone gunmen? Puhlease!

[WilliamPitt]

1. . . . . . . .

[ChisolmTrailDem]

6. It's a preemption of the anti-conspiracy gang here who tend to pile on anyone

who ask questions that may have answers that are not convenient or that do not support the official version of the story, whatever that happens to be.

In this case, there is growing evidence that the 1% do not like what they are hearing from Pope Francis.

The OP is saying that if the Pope is assassinated, it will be the result of a conspiracy to do so by elements of the 1% and their henchmen and not by a single zealot, as the official story will try to claim.

[Silent3]

14. My OP is neutral about what the actual explanation might be, were such a terrible event to happen.

I'll certainly admit, however, than I intend to be more critical of those who automatically tilt toward Big Conspiracy, especially when they call it "questioning", which it hardly ever really is.

My OP is about whether people who think they're examining the "facts" are really doing so, or if they can't see and understand the kinds of filters and automatic compensation they apply, expecting to be mislead and lied to, no matter what the true underlying events and causes might be.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

16. Thank you for the clarification. I admit to skimming too fast sometimes and missing nuance. n/t

[silverweb]

2. I don't know about "conspiracy."

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]But the Church would have a new holy martyr, whose mandate of social justice and service to the poor per Christ's teachings would be elevated to a level of visibility and sanctity not seen in modern times.

Anyone wishing harm to Francis I should take that into consideration.

[NoOneMan]

3. Some of you already *know* it wasn't

How we feel today has no bearing on tomorrow's reality, and should therefore not create a bias to it

[Silent3]

4. See (1) n/t

[H2O Man]

5. Silly ......

though not in the funny sense.

[Silent3]

11. A macabre though experiment, I'll admit. But perhaps a useful one.

I'd like people who have a conspiratorial bent to the way they see the world to imagine a theoretical event, and ask themselves if they really would be looking for the "hard facts", if they'd be sure they'd be the ones who are simply being "skeptical" and "questioning" as they'd like to imagine themselves to be.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

7. This thread is a Conspiracy against my morning.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

9. Speaking of Conspiracies, has anybody seen Silent1 and Silent2?

[Silent3]

15. "I am reminded at this point of a fellow I used to know whose name was Henry...

...only to give you an idea of what an individualist he was he spelt it HEN3RY. The 3 was silent, you see."

http://www.casualhacker.net/tom.lehrer/evening.html

[A-Schwarzenegger]

21. "Life is like a sewer..."

Lehrer's a funny feller:

"...Something he said once before they took him away to the Massachussetts state home for the bewildered. He said: "Life is like a sewer: what you get out of it depends on what you put into it." It's always seems to me that this is precisely the sort of dynamic, positive thinking that we so desperately need in these trying times of crisis and universal broo-ha-ha..."

[pinboy3niner]

17. They've been rather quiet. TOO quiet...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

39. They're hatching a pre-anti-conspiracy.

[Rex]

8. Good God how petty.

Slow day?

[Electric Monk]

10. GD SOP trifecta: Religion, conspiracy theories, and whining about DU.

[Agschmid]

45. Nailed it.

[Bjorn Against]

12. Admit you are theorizing on a theory that has not even been presented

I think some conspiracy theorists are nuts, I think people who automatically dismiss all conspiracy theories are even more nuts. Each case needs to be judged on it's merits, it seems to me that both those that automatically dismiss conspiracies and those who automatically accept them are equally lacking in critical thinking skills.

To your credit you did say that not all conspiracies are false, but I don't get your need to make a theory about a theory that has not even been presented yet.

[Silent3]

19. Some human behavior is very, very predictable

Are you saying you think it's possible that such an assassination could occur, and that if a single person and only a single person were actually responsible, conspiracy theories would somehow be abated, that such a simple, unadorned, undramatic truth could ever satisfy a significant majority, based on the mere virtue of it being true?

I give people who are skeptical of conspiracy theories, who expect solid proof for specific charges, for specific alternate stories, people who demand more than just casting doubt on the "official story", more credit for looking at the merits of any given story than the conspiracy prone typically deserve.

[Bjorn Against]

46. No I never said any of that you are putting words in my mouth

Of course there will be crazy conspiracy theories among a small segment of the population, even in cases where there is an actual conspiracy there will be a handful of people who blow the actual conspiracy out of proportion and add in crap about aliens and crop circles. We know there are nuts out there, but that is not the point.

The point is the Pope has not been assassinated and there are no theories about his assassination, at this point talking about a lone gunman is just as stupid as talking about a conspiracy because nothing has happened.

If something were to happen then we can discuss which stories have merit and which ones don't. I will say it again though, people who dismiss conspiracies out of hand are just as lacking in critical thinking skills as those who automatically embrace them. A conspiracy is an illegal plot between two or more people, they happen all the time and people are often convicted on conspiracy charges in courts across the nation. If common citizens can be convicted of conspiracy then powerful people can be involved in conspiracy as well, it is not as if all the powerful people in the world are angels who would never participate in a criminal act. People who want to dismiss conspiracy before the facts even come in are not looking for the facts or engaging in critical thinking.

People should not believe in a conspiracy without evidence to back it up, but people should not dismiss a conspiracy just because it was a conspiracy either.

[Journeyman]

13. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." ~ The Sermon on the Mount

Unless the evil be in your own heart and your fear but a reflection of your intent, best to leave speculation of the morrow to the hour of its fruition.

"I am an old man," said Mark Twain. "I am an old man and have known many troubles, most of which never happened."

[Bluenorthwest]

18. What a disturbing post this is. The only Pope to have an attempt made on his life in modern

times was JP2, by a lone gunman, whom JP2 later famously met with and forgave. So that's what I'd assume if there was another such crime. I think it is creepy to even suggest such things. I also do not agree that Francis' rhetoric about money is matched with action of any sort, that he is seen as a threat. I just read Dolan, who lied about paying off rapist priests then moved to hide 57 million from the victims, then lied about that claims he was told by a single person that that person might not donate to Dolan's real estate upkeep projects because that person does not care for Francis. I personally have no reason to believe Dolan on any subject. But it is not unusual for fund raising politicians to solicit funds by claiming that their 'deep pocket donors' are displeased with the politician, so the rank and file need to give more.

[Aerows]

20. Holy crap. n/t

[rug]

22. He's 77. Anyone who wants him dead will simply wait.

The opposition will concentrate its efforts on the structure until then.

[Silent3]

23. It's not that I think his assassination is all that likely...

...Francis simply makes a good theoretical example for this kind of thing. (No disrespect or ill will toward the man intended.)

The point you make, however, does mean if anything were to happen at all, a lone assailant, more crazed than patient, rather than an organized opposition with an ability to concentrate efforts on "the structure", becomes the more likely perpetrator.

[Aerows]

25. Holy crap, again

did you have to slam gay people along with this offensive thread?

[DevonRex]

26. I almost blew a gasket

(Whatever a gasket is) when I read that.

[William769]

30. This one is not going to be here much longer.

[Aerows]

32. I hope not n/t

[DevonRex]

36. Good. I alerted

but somebody beat me to it. And I was fast. Like lightening, I tell you.

[William769]

37. It's gone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=307182&sub=trans

[DevonRex]

43. I just love that zapper!!

I heard the BZZZZZZZT all the way in Denver!!

[LadyHawkAZ]

56. Good riddance!

That was disgusting.

[SidDithers]

42. Well done, MIRT...

Hit the fucking road, indeed.



Sid

[idwiyo]

48. Nice to know this shit is gone.

[Vashta Nerada]

55. I love MIRT's PPR message for that poster.

What a vile post that was.

[uppityperson]

29. 5-1 to hide. MIRT needs 6-0 to deal with so whoever said "leave", bah.

[Aerows]

31. I can't freaking believe anyone would vote to leave it.

Disgusting. This whole thread is a piece of trash, but this is just the icing on the cake.

[uppityperson]

33. They are now Flagged for Review so can not post. I know, it is something.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

34. "Hit the fucking road creep." !

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=307182&sub=trans

[William769]

38. ...

[Aerows]

41. UGH

Thank you for taking out the garbage!

[idwiyo]

49. MIRT rocks!

[idwiyo]

50. Who ever was first alerter should alert on jury decision. That lone juror have to go.

Another fucking homophobic creep we definitely don't need here.

[sendero]

67. Maybe there will be a cure...

... for the gene that causes stupidity, but I'm not holding my breath (in reference to the thankfully hidden post)

[X_Digger]

27. I suggest a self-delete. n/t

[840high]

28. What got into you? Utrec.

[Silent3]

40. Why would anything have had to have gotten into me? It's just a thought experiment.

This is all about the conspiratorial thought process, not the Pope.

I'm using a hypothetical example, rather than a real event, since it's something that people can't already have made a decision about, putting an emotional investment in that decision.

I only use the Pope in particular because other people have already made comments about how he "should be careful" about what he says because the "1% don't like it", which simply makes him someone more likely than others to inspire conspiratorial thinking should anything tragic happen.

[840high]

47. ok.

[SidDithers]

35. DU is awesome...

not only do we go apeshit over conspiracies surrounding real, historical events.

Now, we make up conspiracy theories about imaginary events.



Sid

[Silent3]

44. I'm not making up a conspiracy...

...I'm talking about the kinds of conditions that spawn conspiracy theories, and make conspiracy theories impervious to rebuttal.

[treestar]

64. This ^^^^^^^

How's the Canadian plot to take over the world coming?

[SidDithers]

65. We're still trying to get rid of Ted Cruz...

Baby steps...



Sid

[Pretzel_Warrior]

51. speculative hypothetical future conspiracies? that's where we've gone? Oh brother.

[Silent3]

54. The particular speculation is just a for-example thing

The point is about how conspiratorial thinking is so inevitable, and how talk of "just asking questions" is rather disingenuous.

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. The point is, you're whining about how DU sucks

and you've made up a scenario so that you can tell DU, at length, how much you think it sucks. Not because of something that's happened, but because of the model of DU you have in your mind.

The thread is a pointless exercise in you making complaints that no-one can comment on, because nothing has happened.

[pinboy3niner]

69. What, you haven't heard of Pre-Crime?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

70. Nothing is a conspiracy against something.

[Deep13]

52. Unless it's just one guy, assasignations are always conspiracies.

If two people cooperate to make it happen, that's a conspiracy.

[Silent3]

53. Technically true, of course, but you know quite well that's not what...

...people who are fond of capital-C Conspiracy theories are all about.

[Deep13]

57. Ah, yes, it must have been the FBI, CIA, KGB, Monsanto, Mafia, Illuminatti, Opus Dei...

...Bilderberg, the Koch bros., Al Qaeda, Al Shebab, the IDF, FEMA, the Inquisition, the Temple of Doom, Isis, Kaos, Specter, Lexcorp, or the Kiwanis.

[bemildred]

59. The problem is there is no way to know for sure.

If the perpetrators are smarter and more capable than you, you may never figure out what they did. So it's good to keep an open mind.

[Silent3]

62. I agree that an open mind is necessary. It's what some people call an "open mind"...

...that's the problem.

When you're all fired up and angry about how "they" must be covering something up, you're no longer just being "open minded", no longer "just asking questions".

Being skeptical, even highly skeptical, of other people's CTs is not closing your mind, it's having a proper respect for the need for solid evidence for any particular theory.

[bemildred]

68. People have opinions, and then they feel they have to defend them.

I quite agree that if you are getting worked up, you are not being dispassionate (seems obvious put that way).

[Captain Stern]

60. Some people probably think he already has been assasinated and replaced with an exact duplicate. nt

[Silent3]

61. Damn! You figured it out!

There goes my disinformation program that was supposed to help hide the real truth!

[treestar]

63. Anything that happens today

is going to have some conspiracy theorists.

Though I don't recall any on the attempts on Reagan and John Paul II. Hinckley was clearly nuts and even acquitted due to insanity.

So I guess there has to be some opening and some lack of closure somewhere.

[99Forever]

66. So now...

... we're taking cheap shots at people we don't even know, over things that haven't even happened yet?


Precisely, how exactly does that work, pal?

Inquiring minds want to know.