General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Best Way to Debate Economic Conservatives
Modern American conservatives, when discussing economics, specifically in regards to the roles of government in regulating the economy, will expect you, as a progressive, to quote from Marx. This is amusing, since very few of us actually read Marx (I do recommend it, he has some provocative ideas), but they expect it because it's what they've been told we follow by their Pied Pipers on Fox News or Clear Channel.
In reality our views come from a wide variety of places: personal experience, a basic sense of decency towards our fellow humans, and a deep respect for the observable and measurable sciences.
There is one source of progressive economic principles that we should not ignore, however, and it is one I have found to be the absolute best at leaving modern American economic conservatives picking themselves off the floor in disarray:
Adam Smith, the father of capitalism.
Here's just a few of his many quotes that I love:
On government's role in regulating business: "Whenever the legislature attempts to regulate the differences between masters and their workmen, its counselors are always the masters. When the regulation, therefore, is in favor of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes otherwise when in favor of the masters."
On progressive taxation: "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
On a strong middle class and a minimum wage: "No society can surely be flourishing and happy of which by far the greater part of the numbers are poor and miserable.
On wage inequality: "In regards to the price of commodities, the rise of wages operates as simple interest does, the rise of profit operates like compound interest. Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.
And of course, the cure-all for conservatism in general:
"Science is the great antidote to the poison of enthusiasm and superstition.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Phlem
(6,323 posts)-p
Shandris
(3,447 posts)...and make sure to use qualifiers. Those are easily twisted to be used against you. (Answers given as if I were a conservative, not as I actually believe them).
On regulation: "Right. That's why the government shouldn't try to regulate business itself." (Used as an argument for laissez-faire capitalism)
On taxation: "Right. In proportion and then some. That's a flat tax with a break for the lowest earners. A flat tax would affect capital investments also, which is more than our income." (Used as an argument for a Flat+ Tax instead of a progressive tax; not a strong argument on its own, but source invalidation combined with a 'good' argument makes your case appear especially weak)
The other quotes are -very- nice finds though! I particularly like the one on wage inequality.
TekGryphon
(430 posts)It clearly says that when the government regulates businesses in favor of labor, it is always just, but when government regulates business in favor of business owners, it is often unjust.
Shandris
(3,447 posts)...the oft-heard canard that 'all regulation is bad'. Of course that quote doesn't say that (at all!), but a crafty con would snatch onto the part about unjust-->business regs. But keeping them linked like that and making sure the con doesn't go to break it up into pieces would definitely make a good source.
I have a -very- conservative family, so I tend to read things aloud to myself and imagine the responses I would get when I make a post like that. But it definitely seems to me you've got the right of it on this one; I think I'll save this one for ammunition for our February family get-together.
TekGryphon
(430 posts)Smart lady, and I don't think she's a true conservative, and she's ashamed enough of Republicans to call herself an Independent, but she votes Republicans because she thinks Democrats are communists. I make sure any arguments I use during our friendly debates are as impenetrable to Fox News bullshit-speak as possible.
Beartracks
(12,809 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)From The Wealth of Nations: