I hate Christie, but I am not sure Christie knew anything about this.....

[Logical]

before it happened. I really think he was caught off guard yesterday.

Call me gullible, call me stupid, insult me, I will not alert it!

I think his administration is corrupt and he is a bully. But I think his staff did this on their own and he didn't know about until yesterday. Staff keeps things secret that could harm the leaders a lot of times.

Bookmark this post. I have no issues with "I told you" posts.

I personally hope he goes down hard. I hate him. He is arrogant and a POS.

But I think he is telling the truth on this one.

[jschurchin]

1. I agree with you.

There is no doubt though, we are in a minuscule minority.

[pnwmom]

98. The thing is, he was DELIBERATELY ignorant.

Over months, he ignored all the reports in the media about this. Then in December he finally sat down with his staff and told them they all had to tell his top staffers if there was anything they knew.

IF. THERE. WAS. ANYTHING. THEY. KNEW.

What he should have done was sit down with all these staff people and tell them he was determined to get to the bottom of this. And he should have told them to go back to their offices and talk to their own staff and dig out all the information they could find out.

But instead, he went to his top staff and said, I'm going on TV IN AN HOUR and you better tell me right this minute if you know anything.

Why? Why didn't he send everyone out to investigate, as soon as the first rumors started? Why did he wait till he was about to do a news conference, and then ask only for any information people already had?

[gcomeau]

136. After Maddow's segments last night...

That minority should have become extinct. Did you see it?

[notadmblnd]

2. think you need to turn on the Rachael Maddow show

[Logical]

5. I am taping it and will watch it later. Thanks! nt

[notadmblnd]

28. this thread explains what the motive was very well

Rachael thinks it had nothing to do with the mayor, but everything to do with a state lawmaker who represented the district of Fort Lee.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024307835

[RKP5637]

17. Good idea, I'll catch it later on a repeat on the net. I'm really curious about what she

thinks.

[NightWatcher]

3. the involved players are too close to him for him not to know

Friend from high school that Christie appointed to a non-position at the port authority.
Deputy Chief of Staff
Campaign coordinator


and when the first email went out from his deputy to his friend at the port, the friend knew exactly what to do, as though it had been spoken of in the past.

[dballance]

60. Agreed!

The simple instruction to cause traffic problems shows some forethought among the parties.

[BlueStreak]

79. Not if he has a culture of vindictiveness

If they all just understand you screw your enemies -- even the little ones -- even the ones who you don't even really have a beef with -- every change you get, he doesn't have to give specific orders. And if that is the way the guy operates every day, there is no reason for his people to clear any of these dirty tricks in advance.

BUT ... when he saw the story getting traction, you can be absolutely certain he knew who did what. It isn't like these were people 10 steps removed from him. They were right in his office.

[RKP5637]

4. I agree with you, Christie is too smart to do this ... that said, I think he creates the

environment wherein his staff thinks this is perfectly acceptable behavior.

[Logical]

7. I agree, his bullying attitude made them think it was the thing to do. n-t

[rocktivity]

42. NOBODY is "smarter" than Governor Soprano: taking and obeying orders just isn't his style.

Last edited Fri Jan 10, 2014, 04:54 PM - Edit history (1)

He's his own Karl Rove, deriving as much pleasure at developing and executing his tactics as he does from winning with them, and fending off criticism and debate with swagger, aggression, bluffing, and stonewalling.

On edit: Rachel Maddow closed her show by mentioning that Christie's chief of staff (the boss of the deputy that he fired) is being nominated as state attorney general -- coincidence, of course!


rocktivity

[tulsakatz]

51. I think he may have been smart enough not to ask too many questions...

....but to be completely innocent? I don't think so!

And there is another story on AlterNet that asks:

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) told reporters on Thursday that he had not “had a lot of sleep for the last two nights” — even though he claimed that he learned of emails proving his staff closed part of the busiest bridge in the world as political retribution just 24 hours earlier.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/09/if-chris-christie-only-learned-about-emails-yesterday-why-two-sleepless-nights/

Good question!!

[RKP5637]

106. Interesting, thanks! n/t

[DURHAM D]

6. Wow

what a disconnect

[Logical]

9. You call that an insult? :-)

[DURHAM D]

14. I was not trying to insult.

It was an expression of pity.

[avebury]

8. Watch the rerun of todays Rachel Maddow's show or

download the podcast. She presented a new theory that makes a lot of sense and works with the timeline. Christie started a war with the Democrats over State Supreme Court appointments and blew up publicly about is a day or so before bridge gate. Fort Lee just happens to be in the district of the woman who is the Democratic leader of the NJ legislature. There are some threads already out there discussing this.

[Logical]

11. But his staff could of planned it on their own because of that. n-t

[avebury]

29. He has a history of micromanaging his office.

Heck, nobody that worked for him could attend a meeting with a state legislator without clearing it by him first. He was really close to these people I just don't buy that they would do something like this without his knowledge. The straw that broke the camel's back for him was the Democrats refusal to allow the renewal to the state supreme court (for what would then be a life time appointment) of a woman he was good friends with and whose husband worked for Christie). She is the person he blew up about in the press. He refused to renominate her because he was not going to allow those democratic animals ruin her good name. This was right before the lanes on the bridge was shut down and traffic brought to a halt. He is a thug and he hired thugs.

Edit to add: Just look at his press conference. It was all about whining "They lied to me." No big remorse for delaying emergency services, delaying the police looking for a missing 4 year old, preventing children from getting to school, and the economic cost of people being late to work, missing meetings, etc. It is pretty obvious that what he is really upset about is the fact that they got caught.

How on earth could he be so clueless that the busiest bridge in the world is in gridlock for 4 days. If he is not personally involved with what happened then he is guilty of gross incompetence for not knowing what is going on in his own state and hiring thugs. Either way, he needs to be removed from office, either by recall (if allowed under NJ law) or criminal prosecution.

[Logical]

32. Good points. nt

[avebury]

49. Additional points.

Christie is a former prosecutor and he didn't realize that where there is smoke there is fire? Why did it take him 24 hours to fire Kelly and his former campaign manager? As soon as the emails came out yesterday they should have been fire on the spot. And when he did fire them it was not because they shut down the bridge for political payback but because the lied to him. Not because they caused financial havoc, trapped children on school buses, and risked the lives of people in medical distress. But because they lied to him.

And did it take the release of these emails to force Christie to finally step up and begin to fire people?

He should have been investigating what was going on at the time that the bridge was shut down. He has zero credibility and there is no reason for anyone should believe him.

He is either guilty as sin or the most incompetent Governor to ever head up NJ.

And now he want to make Kevin O'Dowd (his Chief of State) to be NJ Attorney General. This guy is one of the suspects and it looks like Christie wants him to be AG to protect him perhaps? (The Last Word tonight).

[Historic NY]

52. Being a mirco-manager sometimes blinds a person to actual reality of

a situation the become so obsessed with the little shit that they end up failing when the major details overwhelm them. Thats exactly what we are seeing here, he was so concerned about the little things his staff was out there trying to please him. They gave him this give as it was a desire he most likely mused over. Staffs try to please the boss's whims.

[avebury]

62. What tends to make his story unbelievable is how

on earth could he claim that he did not know what was going on with the bridge closure.

I know that in Oklahoma, if there is an event that is going to significantly impact traffic, the information is made public well before the event. This closure was a big deal, it impacted the economy, children, public safety, etc. Does he not have a clue about how traffic studies are conducted? It most certainly is not done by closing lanes of traffic. After the first day of lane closures he should have been asking what the hell is going on? And he didn't talk to the Port Authority? He didn't talk to NJ DOT? There is no way that an event like that should have legitimately occur without a lot of pre-planning. And it occur to him to question why this "study" was being conducted so close to 9-11? His original story was he was told it was a traffic study and his response is essentially -oh ok?

He is a former prosecutor and isn't interested enough to find out what was going on? He does not step up and start firing people until after emails are made public. And it took him a day before he actually fires people? And they are fired because they lied to him not because they abused their public office for political payback and possibly committed criminal offenses. And he now appoints his Chief of Staff to be the next NJ AG?


There are only 3 possibilities:

1. He is involved from Day 1
2. He was not involved initially but has been participating in a coverup from the time he learned what was going on (If that is so, did he not learn from Watergate that the coverup is always worse then the original crime?)
3. He is totally incompetent and should be impeached (if allowed under NJ law) or prosecuted.

[tulsakatz]

58. I couldn't agree more!!

Rachel also talked about him withdrawing the woman's lifetime appointment on her show tonight. I'm going to watch her show again later tonight...

You're right though & I hadn't even thought about him losing his current job although he certainly should!

[tulsakatz]

56. in another DU post, it says:

Mr. Christie, a Republican, complained in a private phone call to Mr. Cuomo, a Democrat, that Patrick Foye, the executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, was pressing too hard to get to the bottom of why the number of toll lanes onto the bridge from Fort Lee, N.J. was cut from three to one in early September, according to this person. The lane closures occurred without notice to local authorities, officials have said, and snarled traffic for a week in the small borough on the Hudson River bluffs.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304477704579254012674389146




According to the WSJ story, that phone call was the week of December 12.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024306823

if Christie was convinced nothing was wrong with the bridge closure, why did he try to shut it down a month ago?

If nothing could be found, why not let the investigation proceed in the interest of tranparency?

[renate]

73. it sure seems like his "this was news to me" is going to fall apart pretty quickly

It's crystal clear that it's a lie.

People were already calling him (online, not in the press conference) on the inconsistency between "I only heard about this yesterday" and "I've had a couple of sleepless nights"... but this would seem to be absolutely conclusive evidence that he's lying. Not only did their discussion take place in December, it was reported in the WSJ on December 12--their conversation isn't just being reported retrospectively. There's no such thing as a time machine and there's no way, therefore, that Christie wasn't out-and-out lying.

[tulsakatz]

74. yes & the more investigations there are....

....the worse it will get for him!!

Back during Watergate we didn't have the internet & that was even a little before VCRs. Now we have articles online, videos that can be easily accessed 24 hours a day & everyone will be looking for something that not only Christie messed up but also any of his staff!!

Oh yeah, we're going to be hearing about this for a very long time!!

[Cha]

75. Precisely. thanks tulsakatz nm

[tulsakatz]

101. you're welcome....

I'm always happy to help expose GOP corruption!!

[Ilsa]

10. Too early to say.

They may have told him they did it. They may have asked him before actually doing it.

But I won't bash you for your opinion. It's just that with all of the lies, it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. But yes, you may be correct.

[davidpdx]

88. I also think it's too early to tell

I hope it is fully investigated and want more than anyone to see him go down. Sounds to me like there are more documents that need to come out and the documents that have come out need to have the redaction removed.

[William769]

12. There's a sucker born every minute.

Didn't P. T. Barnum say that?

[tulsakatz]

59. haha....n/t

[Kablooie]

13. I don't think he knew it was going to be revealed yesterday ...

but I'm sure he was behind the closing of the bridge.
Otherwise he would have investigated long ago.
He just never expected it to become an issue.

[Cha]

76. There ya go.. he didn't know it was going

to blow up in their collective face, Yesterday!

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

15. Must disagree. Watch Rachel Maddow tonight. It suddenly all makes sense.

Especially how clearly Christie covers his large posterior by pointing out that he refused to ask his Deputy Chief (hell, refused to even talk to her... did he fire her via email?) WHY she did what she did when she did it.

Late night August 12 to 7:34 am on August 13.

[Logical]

19. But his staff could have decided to do this on their own. To shelter him. n-t

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

38. Watch the video and HIS personal threat to the Senate.

Yes, and some people believed for a very long time that Nixon's staff did all their bungling without his knowledge.

[tulsakatz]

63. don't they call that plausible deniability?

trust me, I've seen this all before during Watergate! Even if he didn't know, as executive of the state, he should have known!!! If he didn't know enough to ask questions, he's not qualified to serve in govt!

[Tx4obama]

16. See all the comments on the LINK below

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024307835

[ProgressSaves]

18. People like Christie can be pretty goddamned convincing. nt

[Logical]

21. Yes, I will admit I believe him. I usually have a good BS meter. n-t

[rocktivity]

20. No way -- He's the biggest control freak out of New Jersey since Jon Bon Jovi.

If he had no idea what was going on, he would have fired -- not accepted the resignations of -- everyone a month ago. Then, because the state of New York was also affected, and to ensure that there were would be an impartial investigation, he would have bypassed the state-level prosecutors he'd appointed and called in the feds himself.

He engineered this just as surely as he engineered everything else he's done, and Rachel Maddow is now theorizing that Christie's real target may have been Loretta Weinberg, the leader of the NJ house majority, whose legislative district includes Fort Lee.


rocktivity

[Logical]

23. I hope you are right. I would love to see him go down in flames. n-t

[Major Nikon]

22. Rachel blew the lid off this and provided a solid motive

Evidently it had nothing to do with the mayor of Fort Lee and had more to do with political retribution on Senate Majority Leader Loretta Weinberg, whose district includes much of Fort Lee. The timing comes a day after Christie called senate democrats "animals". Her show was very provocative today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census_Bureau_map_of_New_Jersey%27s_37th_Legislative_District.gif

[Logical]

26. I have it DVRed. Will watch later. n-t

[Cha]

77. Who's the "animal" now, Christie?

[Bjorn Against]

24. If this story had just surfaced it may be easier to believe he did not know

But this story did not just surface, people were asking him questions about it for weeks and he just played dumb. If he had started to investigate and hold people accountable immediately upon this being brought to his attention he might have been able to create some plausible denial, but when he brushed things aside and acted as if it were a big joke he showed us that he was covering something up.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. From what I have read ...

I sincerely doubt that he didn't know. But, we will see, if/when Kelly is offer immunity from criminal prosecution for her testimony.

[dem in texas]

27. Oh Please!

If he'd been telling the truth, he would not have rambled on for two hours with a zillion excuses.

[warrior1]

30. He knew

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. I listened to the whole press conference. I didn't hear him deflect a single question...

but then, I was driving so there might have been a few minutes I wasn't paying 100% attention. It's my opinion though that you don't face a hostile press for almost two hours like he did and hold your own, no matter how well prepared you are.

I have no objective way of deciphering whether or not he was being truthful, but my gut tells me he was. It's not a hill I would choose to die on, but there it is. I guess I'll sink with ya if and when the time comes.

[Logical]

34. I agree. If he thought anyone might crack he would not have denied it like he did. n-t

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. He certainly painted himself into a corner, without hesitation or equivocation.

That's either an indication of his innocence, or his belief that everyone involved will keep their mouths shut about any involvement on his part. Only time will tell.

I keep hearing about redacted emails and how they're going to be the smoking gun when they're unredacted. I'd ask if there were any redactions in the CC fields rather than just hoping his name showed up somewhere in the message field.

It's no surprise that believing he's telling the truth is unpopular. I even understand it. I'm not afraid of holding unpopular opinions, and mine is that from what I heard; he was telling the truth. I guess it's like the difference between watching the Kennedy/Nixon debate, and hearing it on the radio. Those who watched it thought Kennedy won, those who heard it on the radio thought the opposite to a large degree.

[tulsakatz]

65. are you kidding?

politicians always deny this stuff....sometimes even after they've been caught!!

Nixon denied all of that stuff during Watergate!! He would have continued to deny it but he didn't want to go through the shame of an impeachment trial. That's the only reason why he left office. Because if he didn't leave willingly, they would have kicked him out!

[Logical]

66. I hope he was lying. Because then he is 100% done!! But I don't think he was. n-t

[Bluenorthwest]

120. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinski."

That's what he sat there and said. Far more skilled than Christie, and he denied it flat out. Sorry to bring that up, but it is what politicians do until they can deny no more. Always.

[athena]

129. The length of the press conference was strange.

I don't think it suggests he was telling the truth. Quite the contrary.

Put yourself in the position he was claiming to be in. You're governor of NJ. One day, out of the blue, you find out that some of your closest allies have lied to you and been vindictive toward a mayor in your state for not endorsing you, putting your state's safety at risk in the process. Would you give a two-hour-long press conference about how sad you feel? I don't think so. In his place, I would have made a short statement, saying, "Everyone, I'm as shocked by this as you are. We are now investigating exactly how extensive this outrageous act of retribution was. Rest assured that we will get to the bottom of it and hold all responsible parties accountable." I would then excuse myself to work on getting to the bottom of the problem.

The two-hour-long press conference, and the way Christie handled it, is too suggestive of someone doing "damage control." It was too political. That's why I think he wasn't telling the truth.

P.S. On top of that, if he really were innocent, he would surely have investigated this weeks or months ago, when the first reports surfaced.

[cherokeeprogressive]

132. There is that. n/t

[6000eliot]

33. Then he's a clueless buffoon. But I don't believe he didn't know.

[TheCowsCameHome]

35. It certainly reeks of Christie-like practices

I think he knew, and his subordinates were too stupid to keep it hidden.

[HipChick]

36. Bully bosses..and micro managers know everything that is going on at every level...

[Gormy Cuss]

37. I don't hate Christie and I doubt that he was surprised.

If he was, he doesn't deserve to be in office. This wasn't some low level flunky playing games.

[Logical]

41. Why do you not hate Christie? nt

[WinkyDink]

39. "Will no-one rid me of the troublesome priest?"

[herding cats]

40. Check out this article published in the WSJ Dec 12th

Mr. Christie, a Republican, complained in a private phone call to Mr. Cuomo, a Democrat, that Patrick Foye, the executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, was pressing too hard to get to the bottom of why the number of toll lanes onto the bridge from Fort Lee, N.J. was cut from three to one in early September, according to this person. The lane closures occurred without notice to local authorities, officials have said, and snarled traffic for a week in the small borough on the Hudson River bluffs.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304477704579254012674389146

I bookkmarked the article from another DU thread which I cant find right now.

If he knew nothing why was he trying to get Cuomo to put pressure on Foye to stop his digging back in December? Note this was shortly after David Wildstein had resigned. By this point it's extremely difficult for me to believe Christie wasn't at least actively involved in trying to cover this up. Even if one believes he didn't have foreknowledge of the event.

[Logical]

44. Wow, good find. Interesting. n-t

[herding cats]

46. i just found the discussion here in GD.

Here's the link to the thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024306823

[tulsakatz]

67. exactly!

I referred to the same DU post in one of my messages above. If there was really nothing to find, why not let the investigation proceed?

[Cha]

81. 'Cause he doesn't get it .. that there's a bunch

of Sherlock Holmes' out here and Rachel and Shawn Buborg are our Inspirations!

They always say the cover up is the worst.. it gets ya.

[tulsakatz]

102. yes, the coverup always gets them in the end!! n/t

[tulsakatz]

43. I don't!

....but I also understand why you may think he didn't know.

First of all, someone had to suggest this idea & once suggested someone somewhere had to approve & coordinate it.

And during his re-election, it seems odd to me that Christie never wondered why all of these cars were stopped on the busiest bridge in the country!! Sure, they could have said it was a traffic study but he then should've asked what kind of a study & why it was being done now?

And if he didn't ask those questions that suggests that maybe he already knew why traffic had come to a standstill & knew enough not to ask more questions.

Remember, even during Watergate, senior journalists at the Washington Post didn't believe Nixon could be involved in something that stupid since he was cruising to an easy re-election victory!!

I think Christie is guilty of negligence at the very least if not actively involved....

This thing is a LOT like Watergate! Beginning with Nixon's claim that, "I'm not a crook" & Christie's claim today that "I'm not a bully"....even though we all know he is a bully!

[arthritisR_US]

57. I agree except that Watergate did not have national security or emergency management

implications. Breaking into an office and stealing documents doesn't interfere with first responders getting to an emergency, JMO.

[tulsakatz]

69. good point!

there are differences....some I hadn't even considered yet as you so accurately pointed out!! There was the lady legislator on Maddow's show tonight who also pointed out that NJ is one of the major terrorist targets so that's another important consideration. If he didn't know, he should have!

But while there are differences, there are also a lot of similarities....

[arthritisR_US]

78. Back in the days of Watergate it was as huge a story as this one is and it

was followed up with massive investigations. This incident is as huge in magnitude but I am fearful that the investigative element will be thwarted by the republicans and by the Governor himself. Watergate actually had bi-partisan support and I doubt this will get the same.

I remember with Watergate, coming home each day and Mum had the telly on. No matter the channel she had on the hearings were front and centre. So far, for the past few days this has been the same. I hope the MSM continues to dig but I find the journalists of today so pathetic and lazy.

[tulsakatz]

83. so do I!

I remember every day daytime TV was not broadcasting soaps that housewives wanted to watch, it was the Watergate hearings!! At first, I didn't like not being able to watch soaps either. I remember my mom telling me I should watch it because it was history in the making. Now I'm glad I did! Eventually I couldn't stop watching Watergate!

You sound like you're british talking about your mum & the telly. Welcome to the other side of the pond!

NJ republicans may try to sweep it under the rug but I think it may also interest a national investigation. But you are right, during Watergate, even republicans were willing to impeach Nixon!

[arthritisR_US]

85. Wow, my Mum had me watching it for the very same reason! I originate from Wales but have

been living in Canada since I was 13, old habits die hard, lol.

This story has gone national, it was even on our national news! Christie appears to have a lot of republicans who smile at the prospect of his demise so they may really do full investigations and hearings…here's hoping

[tulsakatz]

87. it's national news in Canada?

wow! That's impressive....still, it is big news! yes, some national republicans have supported him but some don't. Some of the ones who don't are probably happy that he won't be a contender in 2016!

I have loved the British ever since the Beatles first came to America in the early 60s!! It's nice to meet you...

[arthritisR_US]

93. On the National, the first story was about the the flu worry here and the second story went

right into Bridgegate. I sure hope the legs carrying this story keep walking

I am very pleased to meet you too….

[tulsakatz]

96. yes, I hope it continues too...

...at this point, it doesn't look like the investigations will slow down soon. I hope the DC politicians look into it too. They've already questioned why the bridge thing was done so with all of the attention it's getting they may look into it too....


hi back to you too!!

[Atman]

45. The height of absurdity.

Think for a moment...what high-level staffer would even think for one second to pull such a high-profile stunt which could bring down the very administration she was working for? It just makes no sense. None. No sane political person (yes, there are many), would submit themselves to this kind of risk, and risking the presidential aspirations of their boss (which you'd have to assume would provide you your next political promotion one day). It makes absolutely no sense.

[grantcart]

50. exactly - despite his disclaimer - he is a bully and no one would make such a move without direct

instructions.

I am guessing that it was on the shelf and several times the staff talked him out of it, and he finally said fuck it.

For the reason why - watch RMS

[Logical]

55. Good point, I imagine they were scared to do almost anything on their own. n-t

[Skittles]

61. AND to send an email

stating "time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee"

JUST HOW F***ING STUPID ARE THESE PEOPLE?

[tulsakatz]

103. sometimes people in this situation can do really stupid things....

what I couldn't believe though is why they would write that on gmail!!

I mean, don't they have some kind of secure govt email system?

It just seemed really, really stupid to put that into gmail....

[tulsakatz]

70. exactly!! Who would think it's a good idea to expose yourself to that kind of risk...

....for a political retribution? There was simply too much to lose for all of them. But of course, like all crooks, I'm sure they thought they'd get away with it too...

[Logical]

140. Then you predict that he will be exposed as instigating this? Yes or No? n-t

[randome]

48. Why did he not return the mayor's phone calls?

Why did he make jokes about it repeatedly?

Why did he fire his top aide and not at least ask her about this?

All of this comes from inference. There will be no smoking gun. But it's enough for me to say he knew.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[tulsakatz]

71. that's what I want to know!!

he says he fired Kelly without asking her any questions. If he truly didn't know about it, wouldn't he, at least be a little curious about why she did this without his consent?

For me, I think it's a little early to know whether or not there will be a smoking gun. I think there will be many investigations & at this point it's hard to tell what may emerge...

[RBInMaine]

53. The BIG problem for Christie is how he HANDLED the situation. He NEVER investigated. He just blew it

off. He was even sarcastic. THAT was HORRID leadership.

[Skittles]

54. doesn't matter

the casual glee and indifference with which these folk performed this action speaks volumes regarding the kind of characters Christie trusts

[Logical]

64. + 1000 nt

[Zorra]

68. Wanna buy a bridge? I have three for sale; rock bottom price for cash on all three.

Call me. I'll even throw in some prime acreage 370 miles SW of San Francisco if you take all three.

Trust me, you can trust me! Let's make a deal!

[Logical]

72. If you are serious PM me! nt

[Zorra]

92. I'd prefer to conduct negotiations publicly, so there could be little dispute

over terms, conditions, and property.

[Hissyspit]

80. Sen. Loretta Weinberg, NJ Senate Democratic leader: "There are so many holes in this story."

She represents Fort Lee.

[Iggo]

82. Bull-fucking-shit.

Respectfully.

[jsr]

84. Christie is a damn liar.

Today was no different.

[BainsBane]

86. He's lying

I'm watching his press conference now, and it looks to me like he is lying. Also if you pay attention to exactly what he said. He said he asked his staffers if they knew anything that would keep him from saying he knew nothing about the incident. That is very different from saying: "How did this happen? Did you know anything about this." Sounds like a wink and a nod to me.

[Douglas Carpenter]

89. objectively, as of this moment - I would have to say, "I don't know!" This could change with new

information that could come forth. But in the spirit of intellectual honesty - I would have to say as of this moment nothing has yet convinced me to a moral certainty and beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew. We will have to simply wait and see if new information does directly and personally implicate him. Even bad guys don't always do everything that the good guys think they did.

[El_Johns]

90. Disagree. Staff don't go off-reservation in such a big way -- such a major action which

required many people's cooperation.

Nah, not without the go-ahead from above.

[dilby]

91. I just use the logic test.

What did a mother of 4 kids have to gain by doing this? Would anyone here go out of there way to do something like this and risk their career because someone did not support their boss? Would an aide even think of shutting down a bridge as punishment? It just doesn't pass my logic test.

[renate]

95. I agree with you, and ...

... welcome to DU!

[TBF]

107. Rachel Maddow's theory makes more

sense than anything I've heard so far. That's a motive ...

[MFM008]

94. disagree

They type of personality he has and the assumption everyone has about him running for president? That anything may be used against him? His closest aides would risk it? Risk his wrath? No. Does anyone think this wasnt laid out? No.

[hamsterjill]

97. It happened on his watch. He's responsible.

He's the man in charge.

If his staff is doing things he is not aware of, what does that say about his leadership abilities?

He knew what was going on. He's just a practiced liar. He's a Republican!

[pnwmom]

99. So, the best that could be said is he acted so as to maintain

plausible deniability.

Notice he called his staff together, announced he was going on TV in an hour, and told everyone they better report right now anything they knew.

Why didn't he call his staff together three months earlier, after rumors had been spreading for a month? Why didn't he tell them to go back to their departments and question everyone who worked for them and dig out every bit of information about this that they could find?

That's what he would have done if he had taken this seriously.

Instead, he made jokes about moving the cones himself, and waited for the subpoena-authority to run out the clock.

[quaker bill]

100. As a manager, you create the "organizational culture"

It in fact matters very little whether he knew the details in advance. Subordinate staff believed that they were advancing his goals in an manner appropriate to the "organizational culture" (leadership) he provided. They were as surely expecting attaboys, as the sun rises.

[JustAnotherGen]

104. He said he had not slept

For two days - when he found out about it one day earlier.

And the SCOTUS battles and timeline? He makes Scott Walker with his Union battles look like a sweetheart.

[riversedge]

105. I think Christie was only caught off guard with the emails they

found (or were made public). As Dem Sen Loretta Weinberg who represents the Fort Lee, NJ district said many times--this was 4 months ago and Christie had no curiosity to find out what actually happened. In addition Christie's 2 appointed aids resigned from the agency --the Port Authority agency I think it is called. Did they suddenly resign or were asked to resign (fired).?

Christie did not delve into the 4 days of shutdowns. Weinberg sits on the Board of the Port Authority. She said she has raised the issue lots of times but the board--'all men' --as she characterized it--showed her off. One man did say he would look into it but that was 4 months ago and she has not heard from the person yet. Something is up. She is very skeptical.

[ChiciB1]

108. Not Buying His BS... But These Days I Find Too Ma ny

people have short attention spans, forget many things that have shown him to be a very sly, savvy type. Many, many instances, but just reading these "morning after" comments, I'm not surprised.

For me, I think it's why I feel America gets so screwed so much today. Something pops, gets forgotten and it's back to following the pied piper. One reason I had to stop posting so much. I'm older than I was before so not so forgiving when I see this stuff.

Over & over Christie has said he's "hands on, takes charge" kind of guy so hard to believe he didn't know and/or initiate it. But knows the game and one may not find the foot prints!

Kind of sucks, but having a college grandson & being around him & his friends... they could care less. They didn't actually experience what happened so easy for them to remove it from their minds. Onto the next thing, what's up with sports etc. and the latest new thing.

I've finally found that they're probably very jaded or don't care all that much. I'm generalizing I know, but I do find that Reality Shows get a lot of attention with them and all that other stuff. I admit I do get depressed, but so much of the time... it's on to the next big story. So ho-hum.

JMHO

[Rex]

109. Nah, he knew and it is going to cost him his political career.

But hey, call me stupid, insult me, I will not alert it!

[spanone]

110. time and multiple investigations will tell. speculation makes no difference.

[Blue_Tires]

111. Even if you're right (for the sake of argument)

It still looks really bad for Christie...At the end of the day he IS responsible for staffers' actions, and not knowing about this speaks to a lack of departmental oversight and control....

[loveandlight]

112. only one thing I think he didn't know

I live in NJ. Here's my two cents on this. I can tell you everyone here knows that you don't cross Christie or pay back is what you get. It is easy to find the incidents that are clearly about this. This particular incident, I think, was setup by Christie, I believe that. Did he know the details or choose to get involved at that level of it? Maybe not.

There is no way I believe, however, that his deputy chief of staff did this on her own, and his man at the Port Authority, who is now taking the 5th in his testimony to the state legislative investigation committee closed the lanes on her say so alone without some higher up authority. Look at the email she sent, "Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee." Immediate response by Wildstein, "Got it." This was planned and talked about beforehand. And no way in the Christie administration are these guys out there doing things on their own. I just cannot believe that. Whether anyone can prove it is another question.

And I think one thing is true in what Christie said at his press conference, he was lied to and surprised, but only in finding out there is an email trail that his crew hadn't told him about, not that they were involved. He tried his usual joking this is stupid don't ask me about it game for several months, but it didn't work this time. People kept asking questions. And I am sure he thought there was no way to actually link this to his office. In that, he was surprised and disappointed at the stupidity of his staff.

[IdaBriggs]

113. If that is true, "incompetent" is a charitable description of his leadership skills. nt

[lonestarnot]

114. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[Logical]

118. We will see! nt

[Rex]

127. I second that.

Bwa hahahahahahahahaha!

[lonestarnot]

147. Snort.

[Ikonoklast]

115. You are easily fooled, or willfully ignorant.

You know that Christie he flat-out lied several times yesterday, right?

Those lies which were pointed out by members of the media even as the presser was still in progress?


Yet you believe him?


Not surprising coming from you, however.

[Logical]

117. Ahhh, someone doesn't like me! My feelings are hurt! When.....

They prove he knew you can tell me I was wrong. If not you can apologize! LOL!

[Ikonoklast]

122. Uhhh, what?

Christie contradicted himself about what he knew and when he knew it yesterday, live, for the entire world to see.


Was he lying then, or was he lying back in December?

[Logical]

141. Then you predict that he will be exposed as instigating this? Yes or No? n-t

[Ikonoklast]

144. Yes. Wildstein is seeking immunity, no way does that turd want to go to prison.

His attorney already said as much at the hearing.

If he gets it, he'll rat out everyone.


Christie is fucked.

[Logical]

145. Immunity against criminal charges of shutting down the bridge. n-t

[Ikonoklast]

148. He will be deposed. No subject or question is off limits.

That will sink Christie.

[Logical]

149. I hope you are right. But either he really didn't know so he is going to get off....

or he knew and these idiots who work for him will take the fall.

[Orsino]

116. I find it difficult to believe that his staff endanger their careers...

...without a hell of a lot of guidance from the Gov. If Christie was somehow ignorant of this particular vendetta, it could only be because vendettas were his standard operating procedure, for which he relied on bag men.

That would arguably be an even greater indictment of Christie's so-called leadership.

[Aerows]

121. I disagree

He strikes me as a control freak and when a control freak is in charge, nothing happens without them knowing about it and most of the time initiating it.

[tenderfoot]

123. I love the smell of contrariness in the morning - smells like bullshit.

eom

[muriel_volestrangler]

124. David Simon: "The highway's jammed with broken heroes..."

(great choice for a title, given Christie hero-worships Springsteen):

He knew.

We can say this now with certainty if we ask ourselves one basic question about human nature: What good does it do a political operative to screw over the opposition if you can’t then tell your boss about it? Where is the joy for any lickspittle hack in the office hierarchy if he or she can’t pull off a dirty trick against a political adversary, then walk down the hall and tell the boss just how well you did on his behalf? What would be the point?
...
If Mr. Christie didn’t order this mayhem himself, then he knew because the aides who achieved this carnage on his behalf were so successful in doing so that they could not have possibly held their silence. Not over the course of four long days of maintaining the traffic snarl in Fort Lee. All of us who have worked in an office, who have experienced institutional hierarchy, who have seen the wages of unthinking loyalty to the boss — we know this much. The same kind of people who would embark on such an action would not be able to do anything but run right down the hall to tell the governor how they had delivered pain to his political enemy. They would then wait on their attaboy. People of that ilk live for the attaboy. Like cats with a fresh-caught mouse, they were bringing home a prize. And there’s no joy for any housecat if the prize can’t be displayed to the master of the house.

http://davidsimon.com/the-highways-jammed-with-broken-heroes/

[Javaman]

125. In order to believe this you have to...

1) believe christie dropped out of the sky and never existed before yesterday.

2) believe he isn't the control freak he is well known to be.

3) honestly believe that his high school buddy that was a giant part of this had no contact with him at all.

4) Kelly never mentioned anything to him at all even though this story has been on going for the last 4 months

5) christie had a self imposed exile of putting his head in the ground to avoid all news for no reason what so ever.

one would not only have to suspend belief, but also reality and the concept of time.

[Atman]

126. ^ + 100,000,000,000 -- squared.

Why is anyone giving this lying sack of shit a pass?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

131. Not to mention we are supposed to believe he didn't get an accounting of emails sent to ....

..... investigators. We are supposed to believe the ex federal prosecutor was happy reading about the email content in the morning paper.

[Logical]

139. Then you predict that he will be exposed as instigating this? Yes or No? n-t

[uponit7771]

156. +1

[polichick]

128. I think he's going for broke...

He's done if people find out he was part of this so he has to make people believe he wasn't - but I don't buy it. Doesn't make sense that those closest to him would do it without him.

[dionysus]

130. ok, let'sgo with "he didn't order it", for a minute. this story has been kicking around for months

now. don't you think he would have found out what happened by now?

[uponit7771]

157. +1

[Epiphany4z]

133. to my mind it is not

did he or didn't know, but did he leave enough of a trail to nail him for it. Nobody just does this for the boss. I mean why? If your not going to tell the boss. What do you get out of it?

It is just crazy to think he did not know. In fact I think it is crazy to think he did not order it.

[ChiciB1]

134. WOW, WOW, WOW!

Bout all I can say, except I TOTALLY disagree with you!

[gcomeau]

135. If you still think this after watching Maddow's segment last night...

....THEN I will call you an idiot.

There's no way he didn't know. He was mouthing off about repercussions to the state Senate Democrats 12 hours before that e-mail went out of his office saying it was time for traffic problems in the district of the leader of the state Senate Democrats.

Coincidence that is not.

[Tarheel_Dem]

137. Nice to see you extend the benefit of doubt to a select few. Interesting.....

[Logical]

142. Then you predict that he will be exposed as instigating this? Yes or No? n-t

[Tarheel_Dem]

150. No prediction. Like I said, I find it "interesting" who you're willing to extend the....

benefit of the doubt, and who you're NOT!

[Logical]

153. Who am I not? Quit playing cute and whining and just say it. n-t

[karynnj]

138. Unlikely given his lack of response at the time

He was/is a very engaged Governor and that bridge is extremely important. This is the governor who made it a point to tell people to "get off the beach" before an oncoming hurricane.

Northeastern NJ is critically connected to NYC by that bridge and two tunnels. The average wait times via the various accesses are updated often on NYC radio. Slow traffic is a given at rush hours and even at non rush hours, it is not unusual to be in traffic 15 - 20 minutes to go the last 1 or 2 miles.

If this had NOTHING to do with Christie and it was 3 months before the election, I would not have been surprised to see him personally calling on all PA and city people to FIX THE PROBLEM. In addition, why the weak coverup of saying it was a "traffic study". If he believed this, was true - I would have expected him to EXPLODE at the department who did it.

Why? What intelligent person - much less a traffic engineer - decides to answer the question "What would happen if the GWB lost 2 of its FL access roads?" by closing 2 roads for 4 days in a row! First of all, given there is already congestion, the answer is pretty obvious. The second is that you had a very clear answer on day one. The third problem is that the local towns would have been alerted. The fourth problem is that any traffic engineer would know that they could have written a simulation program that modeled what would happen just using the usage information they had.

Instead, over the last 4 months, you had silence and as the issue picked up, derision of those asking questions. Not one word back then of what idiot decided this was a good study. (This is an instance where "idiot" could be defended!) Remember the intense Christie defending his state's need for aid after Sandy? This was a much smaller problem, but it seems he could have cared less. (Not to mention, why did he not care about the bridge on the anniversary of 911 (and Benghazi!).

I know most of this sounds like "the dog not barking" rather than positive proof, but it does seem odd. It is also disturbing that it involved both his GOVERNMENT staff and his CAMPAIGN staff. The rules and the norm is that there is a very high wall between the two for most officials and there should be. Here, especially if Christie was NOT involved and no one not yet fired was, it looks like the campaign manager and the deputy chief of staff started this and the PA appointees followed their direction. At minimum, this working together is inappropriate no matter what they were doing.

[spanone]

143. i cannot fathom that you would fire your top aide and have no conversation regarding motive.

i don't believe that. i have had to fire people and it's hard but i wanted them to know why every time.

And i wanted to know what motivated their actions, behavior.

i don't believe him.

if he actually did that, he has a harder heart than i imagined.

[backscatter712]

146. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[whathehell]

151. Bless your innocent heart! That being said, I think it's leading you astray here.

You could be right but I doubt it, if only because everything that's been observed about Christie by others argues against it.

[Logical]

155. I hope he goes down. I want the political world rid of him. n-t

[whathehell]

161. Do you want him to go down

for the bridge closings even if he played no part in it?

[Logical]

162. Yes actually. I think he is an evil bully. But I don't think he knew about the bridge deal. n-t

[whathehell]

164. I got ya. n/t

[ancianita]

152. Great. The plausible deniability argument. We'll see, won't we.

[Agnosticsherbet]

154. His closes allies, assistants, and advisors were involved.

These are people that he trusts completely. These people believed they were going to get away with this.
If he didn't know what all these trusted advisors were doing, it makes him a oblivious incompetent ass, or worse, he set up a system of plausible deniability, where people carried out his wishes while keeping him out of the loop so he would not be touched by it.

It is far more likely that he knew and acted with complete arrogance at his untouchability.

[lumberjack_jeff]

159. Managers tend to avoid doing things that the boss will disapprove of.

The argument that all the managers conspired to do the same illegal, stupid and vindictive thing, that the boss would have disapproved of strains credibility.

Some denials aren't plausible.

[randome]

160. I think Christie knew. I think Sokolich knew. Bookmark this post while you're at it.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

[dem in texas]

163. He is the governor, it was in his state, it was the busiest bridge in USA and he didn't know?

His reaction should have been to blow his top and get on the phone and stop the blockage. It was a terrible reflection on his state and governors do not react well to bad news in their state. He was asked about it by the press and I am sure his staff updated him on the situation, he'd have to be brain dead to not realize the gravity of what was happening. My truth-o-meter is buzzing.

[Sheepshank]

165. Nope...not buying it...using logic would come to other conclusions

...including the FACT that Christie deliberately and repeatedly ignored the Mayor of Fort Lee trying numerous times to contact him of the traffic jam while it was happening. NOPE, this was orchestrated and had his personal blessings and stamp of approval. He was smart enough to avoid his name in writing/emails. He was stupid and vindictive enough and felt superior enough that he thought no one would dig into the back story.