This thread will sink

[uppityperson]

because it is boring.

Why do so many people in the world pick on other people because of a physical trait rather than because of their personality or what they do?

Why is there so much time discussing this rather than criticizing assholes for being assholes?

Distraction? Boredom? Onslaught of rapid communication and 10 second sound bites decreasing the ability to have complicated thought processes? Because people are emotional creatures who seek facts to back up their emotions rather than the other way around?

How about not getting bogged down in arguing or focusing on such qualities and instead continue to hold their feet to the fire while being glad when the assholes get taken down?

As I said, I am sure this will sink as it is boring. Oh well, it helps my thought process to write this out. Stay warm.

[redstatebluegirl]

1. It may sink, mine usuallly do but this is worth saying, thank you uppityperson...what a name :-)

[snooper2]

2. Selective Outrage-

That's why nobody wants to respond to my thread---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024309858


At least be fucking honest with yourself. You can't say "don't make fun of fat people!" then turn around and call bush chimpy or McConnel turtle or laugh at Palin's stupid hairdo.

Lots of mirrors being put face down today LOL

[NoOneMan]

3. "because it is boring"

Or because the title attracts no real attention


I'm going to do my best to kick it and bump it; not because I think it is interesting, but just because I want you to be wrong. No personal offense intended.

[redqueen]

4. I would say B is due to A.

People are discussing this because so many people keep doing it, and the discussions are in the hopes of improving our own behavior, and making life less painful for those we care about.

As for being glad that someone like Christie got busted, we all are. The dozens of threads about it attest to that. Unfortunately then the stuff you described in your first question started, which caused the stuff in your second.

Here's what I wonder... why are the discussions so bothersome? Threads are easy to hide.

[NoOneMan]

9. k&r

bumpity. Because this thread will not sink. Its still boring

[closeupready]

5. Christie is unhealthy, morbidly obese. There is no question about it.

It is a fair topic of discussion.

And making it worse, it's not like this is anything new - he's been morbidly obese for many years, making it seem likely that he has troubling self-esteem issues.

[arthritisR_US]

11. Many see it as a lack of self discipline, a characteristic they would want in a leader. nt

[closeupready]

14. Did you mean, 'wouldn't want in a leader'?

Self-discipline is a reflection of a scrupulous, educated mind. Why would voters want the opposite of a scrupulous, educated person as a leader?

[arthritisR_US]

18. He, to many, lacks the characteristic of self-discipline and it is self-discipline that they want in

their leader.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

16. but going after Bill Clinton because of HIS lack of self control

was verbotten here... his sex life was none of the country's business.

people who attack others for appearance or lifestyle choices suck.

sP

[arthritisR_US]

20. I agree, Bill Clinton did lack self-discipline but he got away with it because he could "hide" it.

I actually find Clinton's more reprehensible and his lack of moral clarity really got reflected in policies he was behind and instituted, JMO.

[Blanks]

67. It would have been more reprehensible...

If he'd punished an entire community to have an affair.

Using your position as an elected official to inconvenience the people who don't support you is worse IMHO.

I'm not defending Clinton - his behavior in the Lewinsky scandal (and other sex scandals) was reprehensible, but it wasn't an abuse of power over the people he represented.

[Bradical79]

46. I think that's an awful oversimplification to say fat = no self control

I think engaging in amateurish and disastrous acts of petty retribution when you have your eye on the white house is a much greater indicator than his weight problem.

[arthritisR_US]

47. Oh I agree, I was only pointing out how some people feel. nt

[arthritisR_US]

68. That is how some see it, not how I see it! nt

[Vashta Nerada]

13. If Christie doesn't have self-control when it comes to his diet,

how is he going to have self-control when it comes to his finger on the trigger of nukes? Or when it comes to the possibility of war?

I agree with your post.

[laundry_queen]

37. Show me proof of causation.

What bunk.

[Vashta Nerada]

38. Look at his waistline.

What more proof do you need?

[laundry_queen]

40. Wow.

Pathetic. No really. You have no idea about self control studies do you? Okay, I'll leave you to your little belittling party. Have fun. Good to know you have no better argument. Explains a lot.

[Vashta Nerada]

41. It must be lonely up on that high horse.

[laundry_queen]

42. I don't think I've ever seen a thoughtful post from you so I'm not the one on my high horse. nt

[Vashta Nerada]

43. Likewise.

[laundry_queen]

45. LOL, I don't doubt it

Because you don't read thoughtful posts either. You're here to turn DU in a junior high clique. I get it.

[uppityperson]

52. What president do you like, did you like? Or other politician. Thanks.

[Vashta Nerada]

53. I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

I'm a fan of Lincoln and JFK.

[uppityperson]

54. JFK had no self control as far as having sex with random women.

If JFK didn't have self-control when it comes to sex,

how was he going to have self-control when it comes to his finger on the trigger of nukes? Or when it comes to the possibility of war?

[Vashta Nerada]

55. Having sex with random women has nothing to do with self-control.

I have sex with random women. I can control when I want to have sex and when I don't want to have sex.

So...moot point.

Christie, however, can't control himself by shoving food down his throat. He had gastric bypass surgery and he still hasn't lost weight.

[uppityperson]

56. You are JFK? Wow, I thought he'd been shot. And your comments on Christie are very false.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-christie-losing-weight-steadily-medical-report-says/

Since undergoing lap-band surgery in February 2013, Gov. Chris Christie, R-N.J., has been "losing weight steadily," according to a medical history report released Friday by the governor's cardiologist, Dr. Rachana Kulkarni.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwarz/chris-christie-pre-lap-band-surgery-vs-chris-christie-today

[Vashta Nerada]

57. Good for him.

He's still a gasbag.

[uppityperson]

58. Of course he is a jerk. nt

[Major Nikon]

39. Because someone overeats they would be more likely to nuke someone?

Series?

[laundry_queen]

44. Yea, funny how it's only fat people's supposed lack of self control that gets transferred to the

nuke argument.

But not smokers (Obama), or alcoholics, or exercise addicts (GWB), or sex addicts , or internet addicts. Just fat people. But not Clinton. He doesn't count.

[arthritisR_US]

50. What I was trying to point out is that some people actually use that criteria to make their

assessment of someone's fitness for a job. They fail to take into account the underlying cause for the overeating be it emotional, poverty, or addiction.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Clinton's addiction was just as bad if not worse. His saving grace was that he could hide it (as long as mouths were kept shut) unlike those who battle the waist line and theirs is so salient to the tacit observer. Double standard and unfair, I know.

[Vashta Nerada]

60. Yes.

It shows a lack of self-control. Lack of self-control in one area can mean a lack of self-control in other areas. I can stop myself from eating more than one doughnut. Why can't Christie?

[Major Nikon]

61. Another donut or nuke NK...

Decisions, decisions.

[uppityperson]

63. Since he HAS lost a lot of weight, you might rethink that.

[Vashta Nerada]

64. Nope.

[uppityperson]

66. Presented with facts that disprove what you said and your response is "nope"? Oh. Well, thanks for

continuing to kick my thread.

[MADem]

6. Well, if you "hate" someone for their views, it's much easier--not necessarily better, but easier--

to drive the point home with a "YEAH!!!! And he/she is (fat, mawger, too tall, too short, ugly, "creepy cute," zitfaced, too dark, too light, big/no bosomed, big/no butted, knock-kneed, too hairy, too bald, ding-toed, Flintstone-footed, big eared, big nosed, no chin, all chin, smelly, greasy, etc., etc., and so forth) too!!!!"

It ain't necessarily a good thing, or right, but it makes people feel that the object of their disdain is even more deserving of less respect because they don't fit into a societal norm of "perfection."


Here's a shorter version: People like kicking people who are assholes when they're down, because often the assholes have too much power to be in kicking range when they're on top!

As for expecting that to change, I don't hold out much hope. People like a little revenge, they can't help it...

[arthritisR_US]

24. For those not ruled by the most salient, I agree with you! nt

[randome]

7. This thread will sink?

Keep your sewing fetish to yourself, will ya??!!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Martin Eden]

8. They don't pick on Christie BECAUSE he's fat.

He's targeted for what he says and does, and as a target every personal attribute that CAN be ridiculed, IS.

I'm not saying it's right or that it isn't insensitive to weight-challenged people in general; I'm just sayin'

[hughee99]

12. Exactly! Some people have issues with the president on the NSA, Drones, "77 dimension chess" and

other issues. That makes him a target. Are all of his personal attributes ridiculed here?

[Martin Eden]

34. "Are all of his (Obama's) personal attributes ridiculed here?"

Different types of targets "here" at DU. Christie is clearly in the enemy camp; how many DUers want to see him elected president? In the last election how many DUers voted for the Republican candidate?

Now, change your perspective to "there." To what extent were Obama's personal attributes (whether legitimate attributes or not) ridiculed by teabaggers?

Keep in mind I'm not defending or excusing the ridicule of Christie's obesity; I'm just pointing out what should be obvious. He was not targeted because he's overweight.

Keep it classy is a good principle to uphold, and calling Christie "fat" (however true that may be) doesn't pass that test.

[hughee99]

36. You made the argument that if someone is unlikable, all attributes are "on the table".

I disagree. Keep it classy certainly is a good principle, but I'm not sure that putting all personal attributes "on the table" does that. If we're going to set our standards based on what the repukes do, we might as well just all give up now.

I agree he's not being targeted because of his weight, but it's both lazy and self defeating to criticize someone with so many attributes that DESERVE criticism with "He's fat". His weight has nothing to do with why people shouldn't like him, in pushing THIS to the forefront, it makes it seem like you don't have a better reason for disliking him (even though there are just so many), and it may even get people who SHOULD be looking at this person as "the problem" to look at him as "the victim".

[Martin Eden]

48. No, you are mistaken in your interpretation of my posts.

I explicitly stated I wasn't defending or excusing it, and that it violated the principle of stay classy.

I merely pointed out the reality of political attitudes behind it.

It's quite obvious that ridiculing personal attributes ARE on the table in some quarters, but you and I agree it shouldn't be.

[hughee99]

49. Ah, okay. I clearly misunderstood.

I thought you were arguing that they should be on the table, not just observing that they seem to be. In that case, I agree completely.

[arthritisR_US]

10. Lazy minds usually attach to the most salient feature of another, it requires the least amount

of their thought process, JMO.

[GeorgeGist]

30. Rather like referring to people as ...

ASSHOLES., eg. the OP.

[arthritisR_US]

31. I guess, if the shoe fits…they can wear it. nt

[Maedhros]

15. It enhances the Two Minute Hate.

Sure, one could rant on about issues and such, but a good Two Minute Hate should be aimed at the Lowest Common Denominator so as to maximize involvement.

[herding cats]

17. It's easier to justify saying something crass when you dislike the person in question.

Which doesn't make it right, but it's still they way it is at this point in our society. Which explains the reason things like those are posted here about Republicans. Which still doesn't make it right.

I don't think this is something exclusive to today's society, for example weight has long been a source of comedic fodder in this country. We've all heard the "they're so fat they (fill in the blank)" jokes at one time or another. What some of us forget is not everyone laughs when jokes like those are told. For some people it's a painful reminder that their struggles are made light of, and how they're ridiculed in society. For others it's just not funny to be exposed to juvenile jokes about a persons physical appearance.

Historically in some cultures a person was shunned if they were deformed or disfigured. Which is believed to be based on beliefs that such things were contagious. Today even when we're better educated we still have a hard time accepting things that don't fit into our perceived social norms. How that translates into a right to mock others is a mystery I've never solved.

[jberryhill]

19. It is not at all unusual for various species of animals to ostracize unusual specimens

Various species of animals will kick ones that "don't seem like the rest" out of the nest, litter, and whatever.

Likewise, various types of social animals will exclude or shun others with unusual characteristics.

[nolabear]

21. Yeah, well, various species of animals eat their young and their poop too.

Rising above isn't a bad idea.

[jberryhill]

25. "Rising above isn't a bad idea"

Who said it wasn't a bad idea?

The question appeared to be "Why do so many people in the world pick on other people because of a physical trait rather than because of their personality or what they do?"

Why? Because many animals do so. Humans are animals. That's why.

Should they? No. But that wasn't the question.

[NRaleighLiberal]

22. Human nature; a reminder of how imperfect we all are (for lack of a better term)....

I think everyone has elements of insecurity. One way to build ourselves up is to ridicule others - somehow put ourselves above them.

Quite different from this is how we tend to denigrate that which we see in others which we know we have, and may loathe, in ourselves.

Not a boring OP at all - incredibly important, in fact....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. Physical trait? You refer to the anal sphincter three times. nt

[A Simple Game]

33. I noticed that too. Someone complaining, rightfully so, that people are calling other people names.

Then loses all credibility by calling the name callers by a different name. Do they think it matters who is calling the names or does it matter what the names are?

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. i will give this a kick. picking on appearance is bullying behavior

[Sissyk]

27. It's not boring.

I think a lot of it is the anonymity of the internet.

I honestly do not know IRL but a hand full of people that judge others on how they look, and they are not close friends. And, those are mostly jokes. Usually, it's my husband that nudges that person, or tells them it's not appropriate.

It does go on IRL with comics, editorials, etc. but no way close to on the internet.

My close girlfriends and I do it to each other all the time. But, that's in love. We usually mean the other looks great that day, or has on a new shirt. We might say "That friggin green looks horrible on you with your beautiful blue eyes". That sorta thing. Anyway...

Again, nobody knows anyone else 9 out of ten times on the www and you lose the face to face interactions. The eye contact.

We can all try to do better. There's many reasons to lash out at and dislike republicans. Physical traits doesn't have to be one of them.

[freshwest]

28. Distractions Lower Our IQs from Sciemtifc American:

Excerpt - Preview

By Sendhil Mullainathan and Eldar Shafir

A preoccupation with scarcity diminishes IQ and self-control. Simple measures can help us counteract this cognitive tax.

In Brief
• A Scarcity Mind-set
• An involuntary preoccupation with an unmet need, such as a shortage of money or time, can capture our attention and impede our ability to focus on other things.
• A fixation on scarcity taxes our cognitive capacity and executive control, thus diminishing intelligence and impulse control, among other things.
• We can free up cognitive bandwidth by converting recurring demands into one-time actions.

http://us.macmillan.com/scarcity/SendhilMullainathan#buy-the-book

Imagine sitting in an office located near the railroad tracks. Trains rattle by several times an hour. As you try to concentrate, the rumble of every train pulls you away from what you are doing. You need time to refocus, to collect your thoughts. Worse, just when you have settled back in, another train hurtles by...

This article was originally published with the title Freeing up Intelligence.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=distractions-lower-our-iq

To the first excerpt, we are always being told things to convince us we don't have enough or that terrible things will happen. Media speaks and uses imagery. music and sounds to convey a sense of great meaning and urgency to encourage a constant low-level state of fear and alarm or winning. We're so engulfed in this that we no longer recognize it happening.

It allows those who produce these programs to manipulate us while in that state. Television is the most effective by employing all the means; radio does it with sound and voices and in the end, the ones we cheer or disdain remain unaffected by the audience, who are consumers.

The media does not report 'news.' They make news about newsmakers, that is to say, each other. Real people in the real world working to solve problems are never given a chance to express who they really are. What they believe and why they do what they are doing. Why it is worth their time or their life.

They are talked over and the intent of the work is never allowed. Because it gets the audience uncomfortable and likely to do real thinking instead of geting their non-stop mental fix. That way they don't have to get out and do something that is noteworthy, not 'newsworthy.'

Talking about characteristics of politicians is fair game if it effects the public. If not, it's a distraction that leads to no change.

Probably off topic, but I think that DU suffers from this as much as anyone else, but it's a conditioned response to data and fake data.

[GeorgeGist]

32. Indeed ...

Sciemtifc

[madrchsod]

29. i was called "skinny" during my grade school days

i really didn't like it because it wasn't funny to me.

i think people who make fun of others should first look at themselves. but then again maybe they have and maybe that`s why they are making fun of others.

[secondvariety]

35. Christie is a grandstanding oaf

and loves to draw attention to himself. As such, it's pretty much impossible not to notice and comment on his unusual appearance.

[Jamastiene]

51. Anti-sink reply...

K&R

Physical traits do not make up the content of a person's character. Their actions do. What people DO, not how they look, affects the world around them.

[cyberswede]

59. ...

Just kidding!

I think it's because it's the quickest, easiest way to try and take someone down a peg and elevate oneself. Little kids do it, and adults should be above doing it, but it's easy and lazy and doesn't require a well-defended argument.

[NealK]

62. "I am sure this will sink as it is boring."

Nah, I blame the iceberg.



Kick!

[Skittles]

65. you want I should kick your boring, sinking ass, uppityperson?

LEMME AT YOU!!!

[hrmjustin]

70. your disgusting!

[uppityperson]

71. she luvs me

[hrmjustin]

72. Yeah she not a fan of me either.

[greatauntoftriplets]

74. She keeps kicking your thread, though!

Maybe she does luv you.

[uppityperson]

75. Wish she'd quit spamming her selfies though.

[greatauntoftriplets]

76. Yeah.

They're utterly charmless.

[hrmjustin]

79. would you stop!

[hrmjustin]

77. .