80% of congregation quits after Indiana church forces gay choir director out

[gollygee]

http://mobile.rawstory.com/therawstory/#!/entry/eighty-percent-of-congregation-quits-after-indiana-church-forces-out,52d41945025312186cb713db

and

http://www.heraldbulletin.com/local/x12785052/Alex-church-torn-apart-by-gay-issue/?mobRedir=false

Regardless of his orientation, Fraley was the choral director for the church and everyone enjoyed his work. Then, earlier this year, a new minister came in who said he was uncomfortable with Fraley leading the music. Although the minister didn’t fire him, Fraley eventually resigned because of an added work load. He said he felt uncomfortable with the ways things had gone after the new minister came in.

After six months on the job, the church got a new interim minister, David Mantor, in September. Steele, who served as the intermediary between the congregation and the minister, said the church body hoped the new minister would allow Fraley to come back as choir director.

After originally saying he was fine with Fraley coming back, the Steeles said Mantor changed his mind three weeks after he was hired.

The next day Mantor asked for David Steele’s keys, saying he could no longer serve, but David refused to quit. Three weeks later, the district superintendent met with the church leaders and relieved David Steele of his duties. Steele said the district superintendent told him he was no longer supporting the positions of the minister and therefore was neglecting his duty.

[theHandpuppet]

1. Good for that congregation!

If more people starting walking out en masse and refused to fill the coffers, I'd bet some of these bigots in charge would get the message loud and clear.

[LuvNewcastle]

2. Great story. The United Methodists are totally split over whether to accept gay people.

A friend of mine told me that when he goes over to New Orleans, a gay couple he knows always tries to get him to go to church with them. It's a Methodist church, and he went with them a couple of times and found them to be very accepting of gay people. In fact, they brought out a rainbow flag along with the other flags at the beginning of the service. I hear a lot of other Methodist churches are quite conservative, however. I think the United Methodists are headed for a split soon. The liberals and conservatives aren't going to be able to stay together much longer.

[WeekendWarrior]

11. I was raised a Methodist

As faiths go, it isn't bad. But then I realized that God and Jesus are the same as Santa Claus, so I left the church.

It's amazing to me that anyone would base their acceptance of people on fiction.

[LuvNewcastle]

24. I was raised Baptist, but I agree.

It's ludicrous to let an old book rule your life like a lot of them do. You might as well consult a Ouija board before every decision; it makes about as much sense.

[Blue Owl]

3. SATB trumps SOB

[eridani]

7. You win the thread! n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.

[dembotoz]

5. sometimes i am proud to be a methodist and sometimes not

[Adrahil]

6. That church is just about 10 miles from me....

...and in a part of the state where it surprises me that they did that. I'm PLEASANTLY surprised.

[Shandris]

14. Yah, I used to spend time in Alex when I was younger and that is exactly...

...what I was thinking. I am downright stunned in the amount of support. This can -only- bode well, congregation aside, that that many people in this area are supportive.

[Adrahil]

18. It gives me some hope....

... that of the idiots in Indy vote for the gay marriage ban amendment, that the people will reject it. Here's hoping!

[Shandris]

19. I'd raise a toast to that!

You know what probably happened...some of the parishioners ended up having a good weekend in Bloomington one time and it changed their whole latitude.

[SoapBox]

8. Drama, drama, drama.

...I'm glad I'm a non-believer.

It amazes me how many people tell me about dramas at their church.

[Lex]

21. Yes, churches are ALL about drama.

I grew up going to church regularly and it was always contentious with the congregation splitting into factions over the stupidest things.

[maindawg]

9. supporting the positions of the minister....

eh?

[William769]

10. Kick & recommended.

[spanone]

12. goodbye church.....

80% of the funding left too

[tomm2thumbs]

13. No butts in the seats means no coins in the coffers... but Jesus does take layaway

Good for the Congregation members who left -- 20% can carry the load here on out

[WillyT]

15. K & R !!!

[JDPriestly]

16. Very Sad!

[markpkessinger]

17. Reminds me of a story from my undergrad school . . .

I went to college at Westminster Choir College in Princeton, NJ, arguably the nation's premier training ground for professional church musicians/choral directors. For undergraduates, there were three majors: music performance, music education and church music, and within each of those, students had a principal instrument and a minor instrument. I was a voice performance major, with organ as my minor instrument. The school was founded as a Presbyterian institution in the 1920s, but by the time I entered as a freshmen as an 18-year-old who was still in the closet, in the Fall of 1979, it had dropped any denominational or religious affiliation (although it retained its emphasis on choral music), having done so in the early '70s..

Now, one might expect that a school focused on training classical and church musicians would have been a pretty conservative place -- but one would be wrong. Easily, 70-80% of the student body were gay or lesbian, very openly so, as were a comparable percentage of the faculty. When I arrived, with my mother, at freshmen orientation 1979, as my mother and I, along with other arriving freshmen and their parents, made our way from the guest parking lot at one end of campus to the chapel for opening convocation, the entire top floor of one of the dorms had gay upperclassmen hanging out the windows, catcalling the new boys as they walked by with their parents. This was the same dorm and floor, I was soon to find out, held a drag night every Friday night. At opening convocation, the Dean of the school addressed students and parents. I still vividly remember the Dean (who himself was gay), as he tried to prepare parents for the things their kids would soon experience: "Parents, your children will not return to you exactly as you have left them here. In the coming weeks and months, they will likely begin to explore and experiment -- sometimes with alcohol or drugs, often in areas of sexuality." (I remember studiously avoiding my mother's gaze as the Dean said this!) He went on to assure them that such things were a perfectly natural part of their children's development as they discovered and realized their young adult selves. When I think about that now, and how very far ahead of its time the place was, I simply marvel.

Anyway, all of the above was but necessary background for the story your post reminded me of. You see, there had been a darker time in Westminster's history -- a time when the administration would conduct random raids of dorm rooms, and, upon finding two men or two women in bed together, would summarily expel them and send them home the very same day. At one point, either shortly before or shortly after the school dropped its religious affiliation, the Board of Trustees were considering instituting an outright ban on gay or lesbian students. IN a very heated meeting of the Board, the faculty and the student body, the head of the organ department, herself straight, stood to address the Board. She said: "If you are going to ban gay and lesbian students, then it is only fair to extend the same standard to the faculty. And if you do that, you will lose 80% of your faculty and all of the talent!" Supposedly, that was the thing that convinced the Board to decline to approve the proposal, and to adopt a policy of respecting students' right to privacy with respect to matters of sexuality. It occurs to me that one might say something similar to the United Methodist Church with regard to the musicians in its employ!

[emsimon33]

20. As a life-long Methodist

I have been ashamed of my church not taking a strong stand to embrace everyone as a child of Christ, no matter what his or her sexual orientation. The greatest growth area for Christian churches is in Africa. The Methodist Church does not make its "laws" at a local, state, or national level, but at a global level. Thus, to grow the church with an out reach to Africa (which is very homophobic), the Methodist Church has not taken the moral stand that it should, instead taking "the end (increasing membership through its African churches) justifies the means (taking an anti-gay posture and making that posture part of Methodist doctrine)." Before I got fed up and just stopped attending, there was some talk about making doctrine at the national level, rather than at the global level. From what I observed of UK Methodists, for example, membership in a UK Methodist congregation makes no distinction on sexual orientation--all are welcome. If doctrine is made nationally and not globally, then African Methodists can, with a clear conscience, not only reject church membership based on sexual orientation but they can happily and with a happy heart support their government's often brutal treatment of gay, lesbian, and transgender citizens.

I am most disappointed in the leadership of the Methodist Church on this issue as the Church took a strong stand on equality for African-Americans in the 1960s and the rights of the LGBT community is an issue of equality.

I have argued that if such divisive issues as sexual orientation and a woman's right to chose were condemned by the Christ, he sure would have mentioned these issues at some point. However, ironically, the only time Jesus lost his cool was with the money changers in the temple (which I have taken to mean those who profit from religion either monetarily or through the power it gives them to marginalize and persecute others--much like the camel and needle admonishment).

If my interpretation of the money changers in the temple is correct, then the leadership of the Methodist Church and many of its congregation are destined for Hell--where, they will feel right at home, I suspect.

[Cha]

22. K!

[FatBuddy]

23. aren't there some lions we can feed these anti-gay bigoted christians to?

Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:05 AM - Edit history (1)

you can choose NOT to be a christian.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. What a nasty and bigoted thing to say.

Here is a story about a number of Christians doing the right thing, and you make a comment like that! There are a number of gay people, including the person in the article, who are Christian, do they also deserve to be fed to lions? Your comment was not funny nor clever, simply bigoted.

[FatBuddy]

26. that's just your opinion

plenty of christians deserve censure or possibly public humiliation.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. It sure is.

And despite your changes, your comment is still crass and nasty. I am almost scared to ask, but if a group of Jews did the same, would you say, "isn't there a gas chamber available?"

[FatBuddy]

28. so you're on board with anti-gay bigotry? nice.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. Clearly.

You don't combat bigotry with bigotry.

[FatBuddy]

30. well, you never denied that you are an anti-gay bigot

i have my problems with Christians that color my thoughts about them.

1. I am gay and they don't view me as human, they view me as Untermensch

2. I was raised in the Assemblies of God church and was raped by a pastor when I was a child.

so, yeah, it's a sore spot for me.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. Um, do you not know what my avatar represents?

I have my problems with a variety of people, but it doesn't justify nasty bigotry against an entire group.

I am gay too, and I am quite aware of how some Christians view us. I still don't joke about advocating feeding them to the lions.

Despite any past violence, it doesn't excuse bigotry against an entire group of people.

[FatBuddy]

35. i can't see your avatar

what is it?

i have scripts, images, ads, and videos blocked on this site.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. This is my avatar....

[LuvNewcastle]

33. BTA is gay and I'm gay. I'm genuinely sorry about what you experienced as a child,

but that doesn't give you the right to take your issues out on innocent people. As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

[FatBuddy]

34. I'm not taking it out on innocent people

i qualified my statement. what in the fuck is so innocent about anti-gay christian bigots? what the fuck is so innocent about a rapist?

I WILL take it out on anti-gay christians and rapists.

[LuvNewcastle]

39. I see you have some issues that aren't going to be worked out in some posts on DU.

Don't have a meltdown over this. You were wrong for saying what you said, and you don't have the right to "process" your feelings any way you please on this board. We have rules here, you know. If you keep going down this road, you're going to get yourself banned. I hope you're getting some help for your issues and you find a more constructive way to deal with your feelings. Have a good day.

[FatBuddy]

40. ahhh

but you never did answer what makes an anti-gay christian bigot or a rapist innocent.

speaks volumes.

Have a good day.

[FatBuddy]

37. and you don't tell a survivor of childhood sexual abuse

how to handle or process anything unless you are licensed and qualified to do so, and even then, a therapist wouldn't be as insensitive as you are being.

unless you want to come to my house, whereupon I will kick off my boots and you can walk around in them for awhile.

[LuvNewcastle]

31. It's my opinion too. Besides the part where you made the dumb remark about feeding

Christians to lions, you said "you can choose not to be a Christian." There are plenty of good Christians around, like the ones spoken of in the article who left their church over bigotry against a gay member. There are plenty of good DUers who are Christians as well. Like BTA said, your post wasn't clever; it just made you look like an ass, and you should probably delete it before someone comes along and alerts on it.

[FatBuddy]

38. i qualified my remarks

to only include anti-gay christian bigots.

when they view me as human, I will modify my thoughts.