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zappaman

(20,606 posts)
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:01 PM Jan 2014

West Coast radiation from Fukushima disaster poses no risk, experts say.

Radiation detected off the U.S. West Coast from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan has declined since the 2011 tsunami disaster and never approached levels that could pose a risk to human health, seafood or wildlife, scientists say.

Experts have been trying to dispel worries stemming from a burst of online videos and blog posts in recent months that contend radiation from Fukushima is contaminating beaches and seafood and harming sea creatures across the Pacific.

Those assertions are false and the concerns largely unfounded, scientists and government officials said last week, because Fukushima radionuclides in ocean water and marine life are at trace levels and declining — so low that they are trivial compared with what already exists in nature.

"There is no public health risk at California beaches due to radioactivity related to events at Fukushima," the California Department of Public Health said in a statement.

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-west-coast-radiation-20140113,0,4048380.story#ixzz2qL1cdyUc

84 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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West Coast radiation from Fukushima disaster poses no risk, experts say. (Original Post) zappaman Jan 2014 OP
First it doesn't exist, then it's no problem, then nobody could have anticipated. Nt. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #1
Well, there's been quite a bit of bullshit out there zappaman Jan 2014 #3
actually... dixiegrrrrl Jan 2014 #8
LOL, yup, here it is, everyone. closeupready Jan 2014 #36
No one really wants to hear that. Unrec. nt Bonobo Jan 2014 #2
Ha! zappaman Jan 2014 #6
I believe time will tell a different story. democratisphere Jan 2014 #4
Global research, eh? zappaman Jan 2014 #9
Oh FFS. You try to counter an article reporting actual science... SidDithers Jan 2014 #12
So...you turned to Gaddafi's fan club for "the truth". (nt) jeff47 Jan 2014 #26
See my link downthread. You can see radiation levels in real time. There is no issue. nt stevenleser Jan 2014 #41
I suspect they'd say that regardless the reality. n/t Skip Intro Jan 2014 #5
Same LA Times that was in favor of Iraq invasion, right? RobertEarl Jan 2014 #10
Just trying to counter total horseshit like this... zappaman Jan 2014 #14
oh burn. you know, what we really need is a tough, whip-smart investigative journalist to get to the dionysus Jan 2014 #50
What about Hawaii? JaneyVee Jan 2014 #7
Currents go clockwise in the N Pacific. jeff47 Jan 2014 #25
See link downthread. On that website, there is a realtime geiger counter in Hawaii. nt stevenleser Jan 2014 #43
Then FUCKING explain this....... Logical Jan 2014 #11
Simple Grilled Calamari zappaman Jan 2014 #15
Hmmmm...not so scary now, but DELICIOUS! n-t Logical Jan 2014 #17
We're gonna need a bigger grill! FSogol Jan 2014 #39
DU rec. BeFree will be here soon to offer the tin-foil perspective... SidDithers Jan 2014 #13
Shame folks dont just blindly believe what they're told, eh? n/t Skip Intro Jan 2014 #18
You mean from geiger counters in real time? nt stevenleser Jan 2014 #42
Geiger counters don't measure plutonium or americium... Octafish Jan 2014 #67
LOL, by all means, direct me to a radioactive material that does not emit gamma, beta or alpha stevenleser Jan 2014 #68
My mistake. Octafish Jan 2014 #72
BTW, plutonium decays by emitting alpha particles. So, yes. geiger counters detect plutonium just stevenleser Jan 2014 #69
That is so. Octafish Jan 2014 #74
Americium decays by emitting beta particles. Once again, that's how geiger counters detect it. nt stevenleser Jan 2014 #70
Thanks again for sharing. Here's a better explanation of Hot Particles... Octafish Jan 2014 #75
You're right, Geiger counters don't measure plutonium or americium. Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #78
Columbia Medical Professor: Inhaling just one radioactive hot particle can cause cancer Octafish Jan 2014 #79
Wildly entertaining...nt SidDithers Jan 2014 #81
Yeah. Three runaway nuclear piles exposed to the environment is hilarious. Octafish Jan 2014 #82
No, it's your expertise via google search that's wildly entertaining...nt SidDithers Jan 2014 #83
Better than siding with TEPCO and the nuclear powers behind them... Octafish Jan 2014 #84
No worries ... Gordon Alf Shumway Jan 2014 #16
Tell that to the sea life Politicalboi Jan 2014 #19
+1 The truth is in the bioaccumulation flamingdem Jan 2014 #22
The problem is no matter what is said by scientists, there are those who will believe otherwise. Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #20
I believe!! RobertEarl Jan 2014 #21
Yeah, you can't quite get over that time traveling radiation, can you? jeff47 Jan 2014 #24
Now, now RobertEarl Jan 2014 #28
Even the marine biologists who are talking about the sea lion death rate think you're wrong. Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #29
Yep RobertEarl Jan 2014 #30
Ah, yes. The God of the gaps. Gravitycollapse Jan 2014 #31
Ah yes, time to move the details around since the last theory fell apart. jeff47 Jan 2014 #35
Canary in a coal mine RobertEarl Jan 2014 #46
Doesn't fix the holes in your theory. jeff47 Jan 2014 #47
Interesting RobertEarl Jan 2014 #55
ENEnews is real science? hobbit709 Jan 2014 #48
ENEnews is a better source than you. RobertEarl Jan 2014 #56
You're the one claiming enenews is science. hobbit709 Jan 2014 #57
ENEnews is just a source of news RobertEarl Jan 2014 #58
Me love nukes? That's the funniest thing said about me in months. hobbit709 Jan 2014 #59
What is your problem? RobertEarl Jan 2014 #60
My problem is idiots that go into full blown panic mode when they know nothing hobbit709 Jan 2014 #61
So don't panic RobertEarl Jan 2014 #62
I feel great. How do you feel? hobbit709 Jan 2014 #63
I feel bad for you RobertEarl Jan 2014 #64
Once again you're talking without knowing anything hobbit709 Jan 2014 #65
Nice to know you are reading RobertEarl Jan 2014 #66
Some science about the plume RobertEarl Jan 2014 #77
Did you know that even dolphins in the Atlantic are being affected by Fukushima? zappaman Jan 2014 #76
Yup, too much fear mongering. longship Jan 2014 #23
"experts say." Harumph! The DU "experts" say just the opposite. Common Sense Party Jan 2014 #27
Facts can sometimes help .... with your opinion MindMover Jan 2014 #54
But Geiger counters! Vashta Nerada Jan 2014 #32
But when there are more clicks now than before... seattledo Jan 2014 #33
No, there isn't obviously a problem. jeff47 Jan 2014 #34
Trace levels can still be dangerous Harmony Blue Jan 2014 #37
I'll take Helen Caldicott's word over any nuclear industry lackey. Octafish Jan 2014 #38
They are correct. There is a website that links geiger counters globally. One can see for themselves stevenleser Jan 2014 #40
Well how the hell am I supposed to panic with news like this? Orrex Jan 2014 #44
Yeah, Le Taz Hot Jan 2014 #45
"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied" Thorin_Oakenshield Jan 2014 #49
If we ask someone in authority whether the atmosphere is made of cheese, they will deny it. stevenleser Jan 2014 #51
Experts used to tell us school children in the fifties, during the Cleita Jan 2014 #52
Facts can sometimes help .... MindMover Jan 2014 #53
I have some yummy Humpy in my freezer... countryjake Jan 2014 #71
I'd love to make a West Coast interpretation of J.W. Jackson's Bluefish Paté Brother Buzz Jan 2014 #73
Otherwise, economies and industries (seafood, e.g.) would collapse, so "NO RISK," people! WinkyDink Jan 2014 #80

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
3. Well, there's been quite a bit of bullshit out there
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:13 PM
Jan 2014

and here.
For example, how many times is someone going to post that the starfish are dying for a decade because of Fukushima?

From the article

The latest concerns are mostly driven by online videos, blogs and social media — including a post titled "28 Signs That the West Coast Is Being Absolutely Fried With Nuclear Radiation From Fukushima." A video posted on YouTube last month shows an unidentified man with a Geiger counter detecting elevated radiation levels on a beach in Half Moon Bay, south of San Francisco, and has received more than 650,000 views.

The California Department of Public Health sent inspectors to the beach shown in the video, and their tests found similarly elevated radiation levels. But their analysis indicates they are naturally occurring — probably from minerals in the sand — and not associated with Fukushima.

Kim Martini, an oceanographer at the University of Washington, noticed a surge in outrageous worries about radiation in Seattle last fall, including people who were afraid to go to the beach and stopped eating seafood.

"Every single environmental issue was being blamed on Fukushima," she said. "And I thought there's no way that can be true."



dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
8. actually...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:16 PM
Jan 2014

First it doesn't exist, then it is no worse than flying a banana from coast to coast
then it does exist but is still safe according the new higher gov't safety levels ( yellow, orange, red, glow)
but even then there is no PROOF!!!!
because our gov't is not testing for it anyhoo.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
6. Ha!
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:15 PM
Jan 2014

I live on the west coast...less than a half mile from the beach.
Am I worried?
Hell, I'm a lot more worried about the sea level rising or the over-fishing we are doing than this.
I'm glad to see a sane article once in a while regarding Fukushima.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
9. Global research, eh?
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:17 PM
Jan 2014

Globalresearch.ca (also under the domain name globalresearch.org) may best be described as a left-wing equivalent to WingNutDaily. It is the website of the Montreal-based non-profit The Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), founded by Michel Chossudovsky.

The website describes itself as an "independent research and media organization." Globalresearch.ca takes pride in being a reliable "alternative news" source serving as a major repository of a broad range of "news articles, in-depth reports and analysis on issues which are barely covered by the mainstream media" (such as the New World Order). Its politico-economic stance is strongly anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, anti-militarist, "internationalist but anti-globalization." Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.

While many of Globalresearch.ca's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping and bullshit throughout its pages.

Despite presenting itself as a source of scholarly analysis, Globalresearch.ca mostly consists of polemics many of which accept (and use) conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and propaganda. The prevalent conspiracist strand relates to global power-elites (primarily governments and corporations) and their New World Order. Specific featured conspiracy theories include those addressing 9/11, vaccines, genetic modification, Zionism, HAARP, global warming, and David Kelly. Analyses of these issues tend follow the lines of the site's political biases.

Apparently, contributors to Globalresearch.ca consider information sourced from anyone who seems aligned to their ideology as reliable; during the 2011 Libyan civil war the site was an apologist for Muammar al-Gaddafi, reproducing his propaganda and painting him as a paragon of a modern leader. It's no surprise then that the site has long become a magnet for radicals, fringe figures and crank elements from the left in general. And ironically, it has more in common with its writers' enemies and wingnut rivals than they would ever admit.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
12. Oh FFS. You try to counter an article reporting actual science...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:22 PM
Jan 2014

with horseshit from globalresearch?



Sid

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
50. oh burn. you know, what we really need is a tough, whip-smart investigative journalist to get to the
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:18 PM
Jan 2014

bottom of all of this. someone with credibility, someone beyond reproach...
hmm....

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
25. Currents go clockwise in the N Pacific.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:14 AM
Jan 2014

So the water comes from Japan, passes by Alaska, and then heads south along the West coast. That, theoretically, brings water from the site to the west coast.

Hawaii isn't in that current pattern.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
15. Simple Grilled Calamari
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:26 PM
Jan 2014

1 pound squid (calamari), tubes only
salt and pepper
extra virgin olive oil
1 lime, cut into wedges
few sprigs fresh parsley, finely minced
bamboo skewers, soaked
Directions:

1. Preheat grill. Wash squid, pat dry with paper towel. Cut squid into 2-inch tubes and thread onto bamboo skewer. Season both sides with salt and pepper.

2. Grill over medium-high heat for 4 minutes each side or until edges slightly charred.

3. Drizzle olive oil over cooked calamari, squeeze lime over and top with parsley

http://www.steamykitchen.com/18274-grilled-calamari-recipe.html

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
13. DU rec. BeFree will be here soon to offer the tin-foil perspective...
Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:24 PM
Jan 2014

Oh wait. They're already here.

Sid

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
67. Geiger counters don't measure plutonium or americium...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:33 PM
Jan 2014

They count alpha- and beta- particles, no hot particles. Why that matters:

DOE-STD-1128-98

Guide of Good Practices for Occupational Radiological Protection in Plutonium Facilities


EXCERPT...

4.2.3 Characteristics of Plutonium Contamination

There are few characteristics of plutonium contamination that are unique. Plutonium
contamination may be in many physical and chemical forms. (See Section 2.0 for the many
potential sources of plutonium contamination from combustion products of a plutonium fire
to radiolytic products from long-term storage.) [font color="blue"]The one characteristic that many believe is
unique to plutonium is its ability to migrate with no apparent motive force. Whether from
alpha recoil or some other mechanism, plutonium contamination, if not contained or
removed, will spread relatively rapidly throughout an area.
[/font color]

SOURCE (PDF file format): http://www.hss.doe.gov/nuclearsafety/techstds/docs/standard/DOE-STD-1128-2008.pdf




 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
68. LOL, by all means, direct me to a radioactive material that does not emit gamma, beta or alpha
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:48 PM
Jan 2014

particles or neutrons or any of the other items detected by geiger counters.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
72. My mistake.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:29 PM
Jan 2014

Didn't realize I'd cojoined two unrelated term until now.

Geiger counters, as your link downthread shows, measure alpha and beta decays, sub atomic particles like protons, neutrons and electrons given off by radioactive decay.

I wanted to remind people that more insidious forms of radioactive pollutant - hot particles - are contained in plutonium, some of which was aerosolized, some in chunks large enough to see, and disbursed by the explosion of the reactor 3 building.

If you find an EPA report online regarding plutonium contamination results in the USA, I'd be much obliged to read.

All it takes is a microscopic particle to cause lung cancer. Nothing funny about that.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
69. BTW, plutonium decays by emitting alpha particles. So, yes. geiger counters detect plutonium just
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:52 PM
Jan 2014

like they detect any other radioactive material.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
74. That is so.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:31 PM
Jan 2014

And human skin can keep alpha radiation from penetrating the body.

If plutonium is inhaled, it's another story.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
70. Americium decays by emitting beta particles. Once again, that's how geiger counters detect it. nt
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:54 PM
Jan 2014

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
78. You're right, Geiger counters don't measure plutonium or americium.
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 02:39 AM
Jan 2014

They measure the high energy radiation emitted during decay. All radioactive elements emit high energy radiation (ie ionizing radiation) which can be detected by the vacuum tubes in Geiger counters.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
79. Columbia Medical Professor: Inhaling just one radioactive hot particle can cause cancer
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jan 2014

Dr. Andy Kanter, MD, MPH, President of the Board of Directors of Physicians for Social Responsibility, has studied radioactive plume projections from nuclear reactor accident scenarios and other public health impacts of nuclear radiation dispersion. He is the director of Health Information Systems/Medical Informatics for the Millennium Villages Project for the Earth Institute at Columbia University as well as an Asst. Prof. for Clinical Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology at Columbia University.

“Even a single hot particle consumed or inhaled into the body can cause a cancer.”

SOURCE (w video, links): http://www.infiniteunknown.net/tag/andy-kanter/

PS: Thank you, Gravitycollapse. I was trying to give people the heads-up on some of the dangers from three out of control nuclear reactors spewing who-knows-what into the environment, a story they're not getting in Corporate McPravda, TEPCO or the NRC: Geiger counters may notice radioactive alpha- and beta-decay, but they do not identify the element or isotope causing it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
82. Yeah. Three runaway nuclear piles exposed to the environment is hilarious.
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 09:10 AM
Jan 2014

Does your situation depend on the success of nuclear power? If so, you should reconsider what you do.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
84. Better than siding with TEPCO and the nuclear powers behind them...
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 09:42 AM
Jan 2014

Here's what I'm writing about (why it doesn't bother you is your business, not mine):

Fukushima, Plutonium, CIA, and the BFEE: Deep Doo-Doo Four Ways to Doomsday

The story connects a few dots from the present day back to World War II.



War crime, Yakuza, Secret Government. Why not?



Japan’s Nuclear Industry: The CIA Link.

By Eleanor Warnock
June 1, 2012, 10:18 AM JST.
Wall Street Journal Blog

Tetsuo Arima, a researcher at Waseda University in Tokyo, told JRT he discovered in the U.S. National Archives a trove of declassified CIA files that showed how one man, Matsutaro Shoriki, was instrumental in jumpstarting Japan’s nascent nuclear industry.

Mr. Shoriki was many things: a Class A war criminal, the head of the Yomiuri Shimbun (Japan’s biggest-selling and most influential newspaper) and the founder of both the country’s first commercial broadcaster and the Tokyo Giants baseball team. Less well known, according to Mr. Arima, was that the media mogul worked with the CIA to promote nuclear power.

SNIP...

Mr. Shoriki, backed by the CIA, used his influence to publish articles in the Yomiuri that extolled the virtues of nuclear power, according to the documents found by Mr. Arima. Keen on remilitarizing Japan, Mr. Shoriki endorsed nuclear power in hopes its development would one day arm the country with the ability to make its own nuclear weapons, according to Mr. Arima. Mr. Shoriki’s behind-the-scenes push created a chain reaction in other media that eventually changed public opinion.

SNIP…

Mr. Shoriki, backed by the CIA, used his influence to publish articles in the Yomiuri that extolled the virtues of nuclear power, according to the documents found by Mr. Arima. Keen on remilitarizing Japan, Mr. Shoriki endorsed nuclear power in hopes its development would one day arm the country with the ability to make its own nuclear weapons, according to Mr. Arima. Mr. Shoriki’s behind-the-scenes push created a chain reaction in other media that eventually changed public opinion.

CONTINUED...

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2012/06/01/japans-nuclear-industry-the-cia-link/



After President Carter was out of office, it was pretty much full-steam ahead for the Japanese bomb during the Pruneface Ronnie-Poppy Bush years. Hence, Fukushima Daiichi Number 3 and other select Japanese reactors were set up to process plutonium uranium fuels.



United States Circumvented Laws To Help Japan Accumulate Tons of Plutonium

By Joseph Trento
on April 9th, 2012
National Security News Service

The United States deliberately allowed Japan access to the United States’ most secret nuclear weapons facilities while it transferred tens of billions of dollars worth of American tax paid research that has allowed Japan to amass 70 tons of weapons grade plutonium since the 1980s, a National Security News Service investigation reveals. These activities repeatedly violated U.S. laws regarding controls of sensitive nuclear materials that could be diverted to weapons programs in Japan. The NSNS investigation found that the United States has known about a secret nuclear weapons program in Japan since the 1960s, according to CIA reports.

The diversion of U.S. classified technology began during the Reagan administration after it allowed a $10 billion reactor sale to China. Japan protested that sensitive technology was being sold to a potential nuclear adversary. The Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations permitted sensitive technology and nuclear materials to be transferred to Japan despite laws and treaties preventing such transfers. Highly sensitive technology on plutonium separation from the U.S. Department of Energy’s Savannah River Site and Hanford nuclear weapons complex, as well as tens of billions of dollars worth of breeder reactor research was turned over to Japan with almost no safeguards against proliferation. Japanese scientist and technicians were given access to both Hanford and Savannah River as part of the transfer process.

SNIP...

A year ago a natural disaster combined with a man-made tragedy decimated Northern Japan and came close to making Tokyo, a city of 30 million people, uninhabitable. Nuclear tragedies plague Japan’s modern history. It is the only nation in the world attacked with nuclear weapons. In March 2011, after a tsunami swept on shore, hydrogen explosions and the subsequent meltdowns of three reactors at the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant spewed radiation across the region. Like the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan will face the aftermath for generations. A twelve-mile area around the site is considered uninhabitable. It is a national sacrifice zone.

How Japan ended up in this nuclear nightmare is a subject the National Security News Service has been investigating since 1991. We learned that Japan had a dual use nuclear program. The public program was to develop and provide unlimited energy for the country. But there was also a secret component, an undeclared nuclear weapons program that would allow Japan to amass enough nuclear material and technology to become a major nuclear power on short notice.

CONTINUED...

http://www.dcbureau.org/201204097128/national-security-news-service/united-states-circumvented-laws-to-help-japan-accumulate-tons-of-plutonium.html



Those of who have seen The World at War series on the tee vee are familiar with the black and white footage and great narrative chronicling the main events and figures of World War II. One of those episodes was entitled "The Bomb" and featured an interview with John J. McCloy, Assistant Secretary of War to President Roosevelt and President Truman.



Here's part of what Mr. McCloy said about the Atomic Bomb – the use of which he counseled only as a last resort, after warning Japan to surrender (around 7:30 mark of Part 2):

“Besides that, we’ve got a new force, a new type of energy that will revolutionize warfare, destructive beyond any contemplation. I’d said, I’d mention the bomb. Mentioning the bomb, even at that late date, in that select group, was like, it was like they were all shocked. Because it was such a closely guarded secret. It was comparable to mentioning Skull and Bones at Yale – which you’re not supposed to do.”

After the war, McCloy was the United States High Commissioner to Germany, administering the U.S. zone of occupation, making him one of the front-line leaders of the Cold War. In that capacity, one of the questionable things he did was to forgive several NAZI industrialists and war criminals.

The great cartoonist Herb Block, HERBLOCK, depicted McCloy holding open a prison door for a NAZI, while in the background Stalin took a photo (if anyone has a copy or link to the cartoon, I’d be much obliged). About 15 years later, Mr. McCloy served the nation as a member of the Warren Commission.

While he wasn’t a member of Skull and Bones, McCloy certainly worked closely with a bunch of them, including Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush. As a Wall Street and Washington insider, "Mr. Establishment" he was called, Mr. McCloy used the offices of government to centralize power and wealth. That is most un-democratic.

Mother Jones goes into detail:



The Nuclear Weapons Industry's Money Bombs

How millions in campaign cash and revolving-door lobbying have kept America's atomic arsenal off the chopping block.

— By R. Jeffrey Smith, Center for Public Integrity
Mother Jones
Wed Jun. 6, 2012 3:00 AM PDT

Employees of private companies that produce the main pieces of the US nuclear arsenal have invested more than $18 million in the election campaigns of lawmakers that oversee related federal spending, and the companies also employ more than 95 former members of Congress or Capitol Hill staff to lobby for government funding, according to a new report.

The Center for International Policy, a nonprofit group that supports the "demilitarization" of US foreign policy, released the report on Wednesday to highlight what it described as the heavy influence of campaign donations and pork-barrel politics on a part of the defense budget not usually associated with large profits or contractor power: nuclear arms.

As Congress deliberated this spring on nuclear weapons-related projects, including funding for the development of more modern submarines and bombers, the top 14 contractors gave nearly $3 million to the 2012 reelection campaigns of lawmakers whose support they needed for these and other projects, the report disclosed.

Half of that sum went to members of the four key committees or subcommittees that must approve all spending for nuclear arms—the House and Senate Armed Services Committees and the Energy and Water or Defense appropriations subcommittees, according to data the Center compiled from the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics. The rest went to lawmakers who are active on nuclear weapons issues because they have related factories or laboratories in their states or districts.

Members of the House Armed Services Committee this year have sought to erect legislative roadblocks to further reductions in nuclear arms, and also demanded more spending for related facilities than the Obama administration sought, including $100 million in unrequested funds for a new plant that will make plutonium cores for nuclear warheads, and $374 million for a new ballistic missile-firing submarine. The House has approved those requests, but the Senate has not held a similar vote on the 2013 defense bill.

CONTINUED...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/06/nuclear-bombs-congress-elections-campaign-donations



It isn't ironic or coincidental. It is the Establishment, the in-group, the Elite, the One-Percent that’s pretty much gotten the lion’s share of the wealth created over the last 50 years. The same group that’s pretty much had their fingers on the atomic button ever since the Bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as profited from the development of nuclear power, nuclear weapons, and the almost continuous state of war since then. For lack of a better term, I call them the BFEE, or War Party.

BTW: I've never claimed to be an expert. I do use GOOGLE, though. Unlike you, I want people to know about things the nuclear industry and government prefer to cover up.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
20. The problem is no matter what is said by scientists, there are those who will believe otherwise.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:19 AM
Jan 2014

What can we do? Not much.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
21. I believe!!
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:25 AM
Jan 2014

Believe they aren't doing any science, just blabbering.

Check these out, GC.

Three Reasons Why Fukushima Radiation Has Nothing to Do with Starfish Wasting Syndrome
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101682144

Oh and this one too

Starfish die off in the NW Pacific
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101682071

Yep, those are my threads about the reports.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
24. Yeah, you can't quite get over that time traveling radiation, can you?
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:12 AM
Jan 2014

You know, I think radiation from Fukushima killed King Tut.

(For those unaware, Robert here has been pushing starfish wasting disease as proof of massive radiation from Fukushima. The main problems with his pet theory are 1) dying started before the accident, 2) no other species are dying and 3) Atlantic starfish are also dying.)

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
28. Now, now
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:11 AM
Jan 2014

The whole hemisphere got dosed via the air from Fukushima. If you read the OP even the LA Times admits there was airborne radiation, and now it has washed off into the ocean, where the starfish live, even in the Atlantic.

The wasting we are seeing now is unlike any seen before. So say the experts. But we have had contamination before, from nuke testing. The DOE will tell you that and even the pro-nuke experts on DU have been saying that.

3 times as many Sea lion deaths this year on the coast. Babies stranded on the beaches. Of course if you had one piece of science saying otherwise, you'd post it up.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
29. Even the marine biologists who are talking about the sea lion death rate think you're wrong.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:16 AM
Jan 2014
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0410/What-is-killing-California-sea-lion-pups-Why-unusual-event-is-a-concern-video

At this early stage, scientists are focusing on food shortages and disease as possible causes, says Dr. Melin. While some have raised the possibility of radiation effects from the Fukushima earthquake in Japan, Melin points out that this event is narrowly limited to the young sea lion population.

“There would be a more widespread effect if radiation were the cause,” she says.
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
30. Yep
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:25 AM
Jan 2014

Unexplained deaths. It could be, it might be, the focus is on...

As for it would be more widespread, what do they base that on? Has there been another case of radiation like Fukushima they can compare it to? Not that I know of.

The point being that Jeff is in error and I was correct: there have been other unexplained deaths on the coasts.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
35. Ah yes, time to move the details around since the last theory fell apart.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:22 AM
Jan 2014

It's just too bad that your new theory has a few holes.

The whole hemisphere got dosed via the air from Fukushima. If you read the OP even the LA Times admits there was airborne radiation, and now it has washed off into the ocean, where the starfish live, even in the Atlantic.

Then we'd be dead.

To have enough radiation in the air to cause the starfish deaths, we'd have already been exposed to massive doses of radiation. That "washing off into the ocean" would include the radiation passing through rivers we use as water supplies.

Yet there hasn't been a massive die-off of people, or land animals.

In addition you still have the problem of only starfish having a mass-die-off. Every other sea species would be having die-offs. Plus, you'd see more dead sea life the closer you get to Japan - it is the source of your demonic time-traveling radiation. Yet Japanese waters are not experiencing the die offs you keep trying to use as harbingers of doom.

Your attempt to bring in sea lions is amusing. You still have the problem that sea lions are dying, but seals aren't. Nor whales. Nor sharks. Nor fish. Nor dolphins. Plus, radiation should kill older sea lions preferentially, yet your data is younger sea lions are dying.
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
46. Canary in a coal mine
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:27 PM
Jan 2014

Ever hear of that?

Was just reading ENEnews.com. Citizens in the state of California have begun to put together a testing program that will measure the waters independently.

One can certainly appreciate your stance. But all along, from 3/11 on, the people who stand as you do have been proven wrong about Fukushima. So, there is that.

The rest of us keep pushing for real science, real numbers, and well, just realization, of the potential effects of Fukushima. We have some success now in California with this program of independent monitoring. Are you in favor of that? Or opposed?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
47. Doesn't fix the holes in your theory.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:13 PM
Jan 2014

Again, if your theory was correct, the Japanese waters should be utterly dead. If these creatures close to the US are the "canaries", then Japanese waters would be experiencing far more radiation, and thus be dead.

They aren't.

And again, your claims of airborne radiation as the cause of Atlantic die-off would create massive piles of dead land animals - the radiation gets diluted by the large volume of seawater, but that happens after rain and rivers deliver it to the sea. That rain and rivers are drunk by land animals. And they aren't dead.

The rest of us keep pushing for real science

Which is why your "facts" come from people who aren't scientists. And when scientists explain what's wrong with your "facts", you immediately move on to another, even more wildly inaccurate, theory.

But your unskewed numbers will be just as accurate as they were for the Romney campaign.
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
55. Interesting
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:10 PM
Jan 2014

You have not provided one source of science. The science that is known says there is something happening here.

Instead of providing us any science all you do is attack me. Hmmm.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
48. ENEnews is real science?
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:16 PM
Jan 2014


Like that supposed "radiation plume" image that was a tsunami wave height graph.
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
58. ENEnews is just a source of news
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:15 PM
Jan 2014

Never said it was science. So, alas, you are mistaken again. Hey, it happens to those who love nukes. I am just here to help you become wiser. If you chose to not become wiser, that's up to you.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
59. Me love nukes? That's the funniest thing said about me in months.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:18 PM
Jan 2014

You're the one quoting enenews constantly as if it were definitive.
Not a one of the claims you've made citing them have been validated.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
61. My problem is idiots that go into full blown panic mode when they know nothing
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:28 PM
Jan 2014

about what they are panicking about.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
64. I feel bad for you
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 07:51 PM
Jan 2014

You are wandering all over the place, spewing untruths and just trying to create flames.

We've all heard about how the starfish have been dying in the waters in the NW Pacific Ocean. Divers claim to have seen them melt away right before their eyes. Melting is what happens when a starfish dies. So what is making the starfish die? No one seems to know. So I have done a bit of research and in the following posts will share that research with you.

In summary, starfish are known to be an keystone specie. That means that if the starfish are in trouble, many other species could also be in danger. Starfish are fairly unique in that they can regenerate parts of their bodies. How they do that is not exactly clear. But in that sense they are very special.

Starfish eat many things. Mostly bottom dwelling things. Like mussels. It has been discovered that if starfish are removed from some locations, mussel populations explode. In one report linked below, it has been discovered that mussels near Alaska have very high concentrations of radioisotopes. The starfish eat these mussels and the radioisotopes then are in the starfish. Known as moving up the food chain.

How do mussels get the plutonium in them? Mussels are filter feeders. Mussels feed by filtering water and taking suspended solids from that water. Plutonium, and other heavy metals drift to the bottom where the mussels are, and the mussels, in their feeding, filter out the plutonium which ends up in the mussel's meat which the starfish eat.

Conclusion: Atmospheric deposition of radioisotopes from Fukushima is established. Plutonium from Fukushima has been found in mussels in the NW Pacific. Starfish eat mussels. Starfish are dying and causing researchers great alarm. It is possible that plutonium is killing the starfish.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101682071

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
65. Once again you're talking without knowing anything
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:08 PM
Jan 2014

The starfish dying has nothing to do with Fukushima as was pointed out to you before in another thread. It was documented over 20 years ago.
Just like your claim about the eagles. That was West Nile-again nothing to do with Fukushima.
You have yet to make a claim about the effects of Fukushima that has a reputable source. Until you do you will be considered another devotee of Airhead 101 thinking by me and many others here.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
66. Nice to know you are reading
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 08:28 PM
Jan 2014

Now if you could just grok what I write?

When there is some real data about what kinds of chemicals are found in dead starfish, I will be the first to relay that to DU. As it stands, what I have been relaying is the data collected from the government and already published showing that one of the things starfish eat, mussels, has been found with great amounts of radioactive materials from previous nuclear fallout. And some from Fukushima, too.

Are you thinking that the government report is false?

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
32. But Geiger counters!
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:33 AM
Jan 2014

People who don't know how to operate them are finding radiation levels at...background radiation levels!!1111111111111

Thank you for posting a sane and scientific article.

 

seattledo

(295 posts)
33. But when there are more clicks now than before...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 03:24 AM
Jan 2014

there is obviously a problem. I saw a guy on the local news that showed his counter was clicking at ten times the rate it did only five years ago. It's a very real problem.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
34. No, there isn't obviously a problem.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:00 AM
Jan 2014

The world isn't static.

If you upgrade your kitchen from laminate to granite countertops, a geiger counter will "click" more frequently. That doesn't mean Fukushima is irradiating your kitchen.

You have to run down where the "clicking" is coming from before you declare it a problem.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
37. Trace levels can still be dangerous
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:37 AM
Jan 2014

depending on how it accumulates in the food chain. Under the Clean Water Act we are still responsible to monitor radiation and other contaminant concentrations even if they are from natural sources.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
38. I'll take Helen Caldicott's word over any nuclear industry lackey.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:50 AM
Jan 2014

Symposium: The Medical and Ecological Consequences of the Fukushima Nuclear Accident l March 11-12, 2013

http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/symposium-update--online-archive-now-available-at-live-stream-link.html


 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
40. They are correct. There is a website that links geiger counters globally. One can see for themselves
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:53 AM
Jan 2014

What the radiation level is at most parts of the world.

http://radiationnetwork.com/

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
51. If we ask someone in authority whether the atmosphere is made of cheese, they will deny it.
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:39 PM
Jan 2014

Does that mean the atmosphere is made of cheese?

These pithy sayings aren't really worth much.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
52. Experts used to tell us school children in the fifties, during the
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 02:55 PM
Jan 2014

Cold War, that if we ducked and covered during a nuclear attack we wouldn't get burns or radiation from those nuclear bombs. Since the LA Times went to the dark side a decade ago I will want to see some other experts weigh in first who are not connected to the nuclear energy industry.

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
71. I have some yummy Humpy in my freezer...
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:02 PM
Jan 2014

fresh-caught last summer, home-smoked, vacuum-sealed.

Would you eat it?

Brother Buzz

(36,416 posts)
73. I'd love to make a West Coast interpretation of J.W. Jackson's Bluefish Paté
Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:31 PM
Jan 2014
Smoked Bluefish Humpy Paté


5-6 ounces shredded smoked Pink Salmon

8 ounces whipped cream cheese

½ tablespoon finely diced red onion

1 teaspoon prepared horseradish

1 teaspoon lemon juice

Dash of Worcestershire sauce if desired



1. Mix all ingredients together by hand.
2. Serve on plain crackers, pita wedges, or bagel chips.


You pony up the fish, I'll supply the wine.
 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
80. Otherwise, economies and industries (seafood, e.g.) would collapse, so "NO RISK," people!
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 09:01 AM
Jan 2014

Christie has a bridge he'd sell you.....

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