This Democrat thinks he can win in 2016 as the anti-Obama

[solarhydrocan]

Last edited Wed Jan 15, 2014, 07:30 AM - Edit history (1)

This Democrat thinks he can win in 2016 as the anti-Obama
Benjy Sarlin MSNBC 01/15/14
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dem-thinks-he-can-win-the-anti-obama



...the ex-governor surprised observers by announcing his interest in a possible run for president in 2016. He’s since visited Iowa, the kickoff caucus state, to rail against Obama’s “corporatist” health care law and to criticize Hillary Clinton, the presumed Democratic frontrunner in 2016, for voting to authorize the Iraq war when she was a New York senator...

...The left-leaning issues Schweitzer is most passionate about– single-payer health care, civil liberties, pulling troops out of Afghanistan – are areas where Obama has run into trouble with progressive activists...

...“Did you know that, just 300 miles north of here, did you know they offered universal health care 62 years ago?” he said. He praised Tommy Douglas, father of the country’s health program, who, he noted, was named in a TV poll the greatest Canadian in history – nine spots ahead of Wayne Gretzky.

Minutes later, the president used his own speech to declare, “I’m not in favor of a Canadian system, I’m not in favor of a British system, I’m not in favor of a French system. What we’ve said is, let’s find a uniquely American system.”

MORE: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dem-thinks-he-can-win-the-anti-obama

RUN BRIAN RUN!

"If Edward Snowden is a criminal, then so are a lot of people that are working within the CIA and the NSA who have been spying illegally on American Citizens. They ought to grant Snowden Clemency."-- Fmr. Gov. Brian Schweitzer

[newfie11]

1. Sounds like my kind of Democrat

He's for everything I want to see. I've watched this guy in Montana and like him.

[billhicks76]

34. He's got my vote

And he is appealing to rural America and some independent conservatives just based on his persona yet he is very liberal on what matters. Interesting. Bye bye Hillary and Biden...make way for a real Democrat.

[newfie11]

51. Yep it's about time

I've watched this guy for several years and really liked him.

[liberalmike27]

159. I would totally vote for this guy

He's way more in the Democratic ballpark than Hillary.

Neoliberals are killing us as a party.

[arely staircase]

261. so would george zimmerman

. Schweitzer signed an array of NRA-backed bills into law, including a 2009 “stand your ground” bill that the NRA called a “victory.”

Speaking of killing.

[MADem]

277. What a charmer....he's in the pocket of the NRA!

What's not charming, though, is his absurd taste in clothing.

Can't say much for the judgment of a guy who first, gets in bed with the NRA, and second, doesn't realize he looks like a complete ass in that absurd get-up.

This guy doesn't have a chance in hell...which means he'll have a subset of windmill tilting followers.

This is my quest, to follow that star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far.....

[appal_jack]

345. Oh Noes!1!!111!!! He believes in the Constitution!

Yeah, I'll take 'fashion' and 'judgement' recommendations from people who believe that the Constitution can be ignored on a whim. Actually, MADem on second thought, I won't. Your judgement seems flawed and shallow.

Schweitzer is not in fact "in bed with the NRA," he just upholds the Second Amendment as vigorously as the Fourth, and the rest of the Bill of Rights. I happen to want a politician who acts like the Supreme Law of the Land is, well, supreme. His commentary on Hillary's pathetic IWR vote indicates that he takes that whole 'separation of powers' thing in the Constitution pretty seriously too. Nice.

But all you 'sensible gopher' types accuse him and the Democratic voters who dare hope for a leader of substance, principle, and depth of tilting at windmills. What has your ideology gotten us over the past few decades? NAFTA, the Iraq War, a massive surveillance state, a drug war going at full-tilt despite the abject failure of all its stated goals. Ah yes, all very realistic.'

-app

[MADem]

349. No--he's in the POCKET of the NRA. So play the childish "Oh noes" game all day if you'd like.

He opposes ANY federal regulation on firearms and silencers made in his state. His attitude towards guns is UNFETTERED.

Hand 'em out like candy to the Lanzas, the Harris/Klebolds, and the Chos, why doncha? Make sure every released felon gets one on the way out of the clink, too!

[appal_jack]

352. Straw men are all you've got, huh? (nt)

[MADem]

353. You apparently don't know what a straw man is. That's his record. Look it up. nt

[billhicks76]

397. Then Hillary is in bed with...

The NSA, private prisons, Halliburton , JP Morgan, Monsanto etc etc etc

[MADem]

398. HRC's positions on gun control are quite clear.

Valiant effort at distraction, but sorry--she's not the topic of this thread. You want to talk about her, fire up a thread.

[billhicks76]

399. We have bigger problems than guns

Although if some jackass tried to hold me up I might feel differently. My point about Hillary is valid though because we were talking about him as a candidate and I personally am 100% ok with people keeping their guns. I don't trust our government either and I'm sure the powers that be would roll right over all of us if they knew they could. Our country has descended into fascism and corporate oppression and frankly our democratic leadership has sold out to personal wealth and enabled the situation. I feel bad for people who have kids and not a lot of money.

[hfojvt]

73. he says some things

but I have generally known him as a "fiscal conservative".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=105170

[newfie11]

87. I guess I will need to know more

I see someone said that he is pro TPP. If that is really true it would be a vote killer for me. Hopefully TPP will be long gone by 2016.

[2naSalit]

298. Some points to consider

http://votesmart.org/candidate/political-courage-test/40832/brian-schweitzer/

Not sure what he would add to date but... he is what he is and hasn't shown to have a change of heart on anything, but I know as a voting constituent of the State of MT for both his terms as gov., I wouldn't vote for him in a national office like president but I would consider him for a Senate seat to mostly keep it in the (D) column and because he has to convince others that he has a good idea before it gains legs.

[kelliekat44]

122. Only if he runs against the GOP and not against Obama...then I'll support him. This is bigger than

just electing a President who will be the anti-Obama. Your the anti-Obama if you're white so that's not enough for me. I want someone who will call the GOP exactly what they are and hammer home an anti-GOP message.

[tofuandbeer]

155. +1

[mountain grammy]

205. I don't think he'll do that, at least I hope he doesn't.

He has issues with the ACA and supports single payer, as many of us do, but I've never heard him be anti Obama. I like him and would probably vote for him, but not if he endorses the TPP.

[dgibby]

357. On the Ed Show today,

he was ranting about NAFTA, CAFTA, and SHAFTA (TPP). Doesn't sound to me like he endorses it!

[Warpy]

351. I like him, too

He's genuinely folksy (unlike Reagan and Stupid) and underneath that is a very smart man.

I doubt he's as perfect as all that. I'm sure there are a few things he's in favor of that will have us wanting to shake the silliness out of him.

However, he's not DLC/Third Way and for those of us who are sick to death of "more of the same" from Democrats and furious about the ultra secret TPP con job being rammed down the country's throat, he's a breath of fresh air.

Does he have a chance with so many party stalwarts wanting to anoint Clinton? I have no idea. However, he is a viable candidate.

[Vattel]

2. Someone who is pro-civil liberties, anti-war, and anti-surveillance state?

And likes single-payer? Sounds good so far. (I don't know much about him yet.)

[solarhydrocan]

5. Please take a minute to get to know him!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Schweitzer

Schweitzer consistently held one of the highest approval ratings among governors in the nation, with polls regularly showing a rating of above 60 percent.[25][26] Due to term limits in Montana, he was barred from running for a third term in 2012.

Schweitzer: U.S. should leave Afghanistan immediately Iowa Press December 19, 2013

[Caretha]

14. Everyone should watch this!

Articulate. Intelligent. Knowledgeable. Truthful. Does not even sound like a politician.

Could it be possible, could we actually elect someone like this?

[solarhydrocan]

29. We could! Help us convince him to run

please send him a twitter message @brianschweitzer

or Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brian-Schweitzer/

[sabrina 1]

129. We could if the people had any say in it. But we are told constantly that

someone like this cannot win. We know that is a lie, but we have lost control of our elections.

[2banon]

153. we've never really had control of our elections..

The incredibly corrupt political machine known as Tammany Hall had it's origins before the Constitution was actually finalized.. Although Tammany Hall has been declared "dead" by historians and is but a dim memory to some in New York where the national power center existed in the early decades of our founding, the principles are very much still in play.

The book The Tiger: The Rise and Fall of Tammany Hall published in 1993 is as much a remarkable eye opener as it is an accounting of political shenanigans, election engineering, tomfoolery. and all around despicable corruption from top to bottom.

It should be required reading in U.S. History classes throughout the country. (lol)

[Vincardog]

254. Let's get him the nomination and see f a real progressive can win. I say Damn yes he can.

[sabrina 1]

266. Lol, of course a Progressive could get elected if the Wall St operatives

hadn't prevented it, over and over again.

See the smear campaign already in effect on this potential challenge to their Corporate policies. They must be scared he might have a chance. I'm watching in awe to see how fast they come out of the woodwork as soon as someone who actually appeals to the public, comes along. Very instructive.

[Zorra]

260. Yes. No weasel speak there. He was telling the truth as he believes it.

And what he said actually made sense.

I'm sick to death of neoliberal corporatists talking obvious bullshit out of the side of their necks because they need to increase the bottom line for their 1% globalist masters.

[bunnies]

54. What is it with the word "nuclear" thats so hard for people to pronounce?

Every time someone says "nook-you-lur" I think of W. Drives me nuts!

[solarhydrocan]

57. The Current President can pronounce DRONE BOMB pretty well

in fact he jokes about it

That was right after he outdid bush by a factor in number of civilians (and children) murdered

http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/

[bunnies]

71. Im aware of that. Thanks. nt

[thesquanderer]

181. Yeah, grates on me too. Can't an aid tell them it's "new clear"?

They know how to pronounce those words, so it's an easy way to implement the fix.

[bunnies]

182. I know, right?

*smh* Seems he should be smart enough to know better.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

313. One of the best human beings to ever hold the office mispronounced the word.

And he was the commander of a nuclear submarine. People have their little idiosynchrocies.

[Art_from_Ark]

320. Other presidents have also mispronounced it

"U.S. presidents who have used this pronunciation include Dwight D. Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack H. Obama.[11]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucular

[B Calm]

3. He just got my attention!

[cali]

4. mine too.

[think]

6. Wow! Kick and recommend /nt

[nxylas]

7. I'm sure the flying monkeys are being despatched as we speak

Either that or he'll just be subject to a media blackout.

[uponit7771]

117. ...yeap, they're called nutters... they, like this guy, support Stand Your Ground laws... and should

... never have the time of day to advocate someone who does.

[PADemD]

8. Saw him interviewed on TV

He got my attention and will get my vote if he runs.

I'd really like Elizabeth Warren to run, but she's doing a great job in the Senate and may get more accomplished there than in the White House.

[ecstatic]

9. Excellent strategy. Not.

Any democratic candidate who thinks that trashing President Obama, the nation's first black president, would be an effective strategy isn't smart enough to be president.

A better strategy would involve a positive, idea-centered campaign that unites and uplifts the party and progressive values.

[Demeter]

23. Nobody has to trash Obama

He's already done all the work.

[SidDithers]

41. ODS...nt

Sid

[merrily]

217. I remember when BDS was the retort to criticisms about Bush Number 2.

Never gets old.

[sulphurdunn]

24. That would be a great idea

except presidential caliber Democrats only care about uniting, uplifting and progressive values during campaigns.

[raven mad]

31. He is not "trashing.....the nation's first black president"

He simply is disagreeing with policy. His progressive values seem to be strongly intact. And, excuse me, why did you bring race into this? Obama won on his merits; not because he is black, but because he was NEEDED. I helped with both Obama '04 and '08 campaigns here in this extremely red state, in it's even more extremely red Interior - got my yard trashed, my Jeep beaten to smithereens because they couldn't peel the Obama stickers off at 40 below zero, nasty late night calls, the whole bit. When we won in '04, I cried tears of joy for 3 days, and in '08, lost my voice yelling to all the neighbors that "WE DID IT AGAIN YOU IDIOTS". Of course, my neighbors are used to me, so either brought me a beer or ignored me.

That said, I have to admit to disappointment in the Iraq/Afghanistan fiascos, and the many policy failures. No President has it all his/her own way, we all know that. Barak Obama will go into history as one of our finest. That does not, and never will, make him perfect.

I don't think Schweitzer is "trashing" anyone. He is disagreeing. We got the change and hope we wanted in '04; more is vital, indeed, more is necessary to the very salvation of this country.

I'll gladly go into archives as being one of the first, and one of the strongest, Obama supporters. Now we need more. Race doesn't enter into it for me; why should it for you?

[MO_Moderate]

65. News slow in making it to Alaska?

[raven mad]

70. Not sure what you're referring to.

No, we get our news just as quickly as most of the lower 48. However, I don't spend my time with the television/radio/internet always available. Ask some of the lower 48 companies who still insist on charging extra freight costs to ship here, when it costs the same (USPS, UPS, FedEx) as anywhere else in the CONTIGUOUS United States. Although, "overnight" exists with one extra day, and their planes get grounded by ice fog on occasion.

I like Schweitzer. So far. But there are a lot of others out there who could do the job, and not one of them is a Republican.

[MO_Moderate]

99. Just a little joking around

You mentioned the 04 and 08 Obama campaigns rather than 08 and 12.

[raven mad]

104. Out of coffee syndrome!

Plus it was 5:50 a.m. my time; and dammit, I'm out of coffee!!

[grantcart]

134. He is not simply disagreeing with policy. He is engaging in low brow bashing of the President.

Most egregious is the idiotic equivalency between Bush and Obama which is beyond absurd.

“When you choose your next national leader, ask them how they’re going to be different than Bush,” Schweitzer told msnbc. “Ask them how they’re going to be different than Obama.”

He is a bitter opponent of Obamacare

Eventually, he paused to acknowledge Obama’s historic role as the first black president. But by that standard, Obama’s usefulness ended the day he took the oath of office.

Schweitzer’s scorn for Obama has led him to hatch a surprising plan. After turning down a run for Senate this year and settling into a new job as a mining executive, the ex-governor surprised observers by announcing his interest in a possible run for president in 2016. He’s since visited Iowa, the kickoff caucus state, to rail against Obama’s “corporatist” health care law and to criticize Hillary Clinton, the presumed Democratic frontrunner in 2016, for voting to authorize the Iraq war when she was a New York senator.

So the greatest increase in Single Payer since Medicaid should have progressives applauding. Not Schweitzer

Schweitzer was concerned the emerging legislation would rely too heavily on expanding Medicaid, which he complained could prove too costly for states and give conservative governors room to undermine coverage.

The idiocy of his position against Obamacare in lieu of going all or nothing for single payer is that it would never have gotten past the Supreme Court which found that the mandatory expansion of Medicaid was unconstitutional. Obviously Roberts would not have found an increase in Medicaid unconstitutional and single payer constitutional.

Moreover nothing is stopping Schweitzer from implementing single payer in Montana, so why hasn't he, if its that simple.

Finally people are going to be surprised when they see this 'progressive' candidates environmental stance

he skews right on issues like expanding domestic oil and coal production and protecting gun rights,

But as long as he bashes the President he will get a ton of recs on DU regardless of the details.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dem-thinks-he-can-win-the-anti-obama

[raven mad]

150. I'm definitely no Obama-basher.

Schweitzer caught my interest; I objected to a post saying he bashed the President instead of Presidential policy - and pulled a race card.

I don't vote for anyone without extensive research. Schweitzer, Warren, Clinton - none of them, and definitely not a single-issue candidate. The research, for me, is just beginning, as I have been quite ill for the last year and am now finally where I can get my mind in gear. Not having to run to the clinics on a daily basis is a big help.

I qualify for ACA health insurance - at twice what WE earn per month. Tax "credits" don't hack it when you can't afford the premium even after the credit. So, I'm not a huge fan of Obamacare. But that's just because it isn't what I thought it would be. I'd vote for Obama a third time if that were an option.

[grantcart]

160. Thanks for your reply.

I wonder if you have gotten the right information about Obamacare however.

If you qualify for it you don't get tax Credits but direct subsidies. In my case half of the taxes I pay come back to pay for my subsidy, which is applied directly to the premium not to future tax payments.

There is no perfect candidate on the horizon, and there never will be. I kind of like Schweitzer in the beginning but now I think he is a bit of a prick.

You can check to see if you are getting the most on you subsidy here:

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

Welcome to DU.

[raven mad]

161. Thanks for the link, grantcart.

My info was directly from my state, which is not known to be the best where any health insurance question is concerned.

Saved and appreciated!

[grantcart]

162. Let me know how it ends up.

[merrily]

204. Good info. Thanks.

[rury]

175. He IS bashing President Obama.

And I think Schweitzer is subtly appealing to the white Democrats who went for McCain and Romney rather than vote for a black candidate.
The "anti-Obama'' is letting them know that they can come back to the fold and support a white candidate who is also not female (Clinton.)
That and his right-leaning positions on gun rights, environmental issues, etc. means he will not get my vote.
President Obama has a remarkable record of achievement despite unified, unrelenting opposition against him.
As a an Organizing For Action volunteer I am committed to helping my president further his agenda and am not yet speculating about our nominee in 2016.
I'll vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee in 2016, but I will tell you that there are two potentials who will not get my vote in the primary - Hillary Clinton and Brian Schweitzer.

[grantcart]

183. I agree

[Maedhros]

197. Your post is ridiculous.

Schweitzer is a racist because he disagrees with conservative policies?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

331. Now that I'm reading more about his *actual* policy positions, I see what they mean.

I think you should do more research and you will, too. He's not the pure liberal that you think he is.

[Maedhros]

369. You are making a straw man argument.

At no point did I claim Schweitzer was a Liberal, nor did I indicate that I support him.

I simply pointed out the ridiculousness of your assertion that he is racist simply because he disagrees with the current Administration's conservative policies.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

373. I believe that is ANYONE supports Stand Your Ground laws, that person is racist, period.

Straw Man all you want. Stand Your Ground is a racist law. No getting around that.

[Maedhros]

374. First, I apologize: I mistook you for the poster to whom I was responding initially.

He posted this:

And I think Schweitzer is subtly appealing to the white Democrats who went for McCain and Romney rather than vote for a black candidate.
The "anti-Obama'' is letting them know that they can come back to the fold and support a white candidate who is also not female (Clinton.)
That and his right-leaning positions on gun rights, environmental issues, etc. means he will not get my vote.
President Obama has a remarkable record of achievement despite unified, unrelenting opposition against him.
As a an Organizing For Action volunteer I am committed to helping my president further his agenda and am not yet speculating about our nominee in 2016.
I'll vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee in 2016, but I will tell you that there are two potentials who will not get my vote in the primary - Hillary Clinton and Brian Schweitzer.

This is a ridiculous assertion; that Schweitzer is racist because he is calling out conservative policy positions staked by the Administration.

Your claim - that Schweitzer is a racist because he supports Stand Your Ground laws - is unsupported by evidence. You need to provide some. Stand Your Ground laws are indeed problematic for a number of reasons and I do not support them. However, it does not follow that they are "racist." There have been widely publicized instances in which Stand Your Ground laws have been invoked by defendants who appear to be racists, but that doesn't mean that the law itself is racist in intent. Are anti-marijuana laws racist in intent? They certainly are invoked more frequently against minorities than against white people, but is that the intent of the law or bias by the enforcers of the law?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

375. The law is racist. We have to agree to disagree on this one. Apology accepted.

I am very passionate on this issue. We probably won't ever see eye to eye on this.

[Maedhros]

377. We do agree to some extent - the law is being USED by racists to avoid responsibility

for their actions.

I will never support Stand Your Ground laws. However, disregarding everything Schweitzer has to say on other issues because he supports SYG is counterproductive.

I believe in supporting policies, not individuals. Politicians should be praised for their support of good policies, and criticized for their support of bad policies.

[Number23]

198. Sounds like a real peach. No wonder GD loves him

I'm going to bookmark this thread to see what happens to his candidacy over the next few years.

[SidDithers]

376. Darcy Richardson 2012!!...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100280304


The similarities are striking.

Sid

[Number23]

380. Sid, I'd forgotten all about that bit of Classic Grade A foolishness

Oh my God, I have tears rolling down my face after reading that. "Smears!" "Lies!" when people are posting VERBATIM QUOTES from old Darcy.

And the same folks that jump on everything this president does and leaped onto the Darcy Bandwagon are (shockingly!) riding this clown's too. I would feel almost sorry for these folks if they weren't so ridiculously loud and annoyingly wrong about EVERYTHING.

[giftedgirl77]

381. Thank u,

I didn't even know about DU then but seeing that link actually helped me put some of this madness into prospective & definitely provided great comedic relief.

[merrily]

199. That is not what the Supreme Court found.

The Supreme Court said that the feds could not deprive a state of all Medicaid funds as a way of "persuading" the state to go with Obamacare. I personally thing that was a bizarre decision, given that the Constitution gives Congress has unfettered spending power. However, that SCOTUS decision is very different from the SCOTUS saying that Congress has no Constitutional power to enact Medicare for all.

[grantcart]

227. Destinction without a difference

Depriving funds was the means of mandating the change, or incentivizing it.

In any case no observer of the court believes that there would have been 5 votes to essentially nationalize the national health industry at this time.

Believe your were referring to Medicaid and not Medicare for all.

[merrily]

230. There is a huge difference. Point is, nothing in the opinion about Obamacare

prevents Medicare for all (and I do mean Medicare for all).

[grantcart]

244. That's not the point

Obviously there is nothing in the legislation that prevents Medicare for all, that was not the issue before the court.

No informed political observer believes that single payer was a viable option to pass legislative and court muster at this point

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/opinion/krugman-the-big-kludge.html?_r=1&

Of course, we don’t have to imagine such a system, because it already exists. It’s called Medicare, it covers all Americans 65 and older, and it’s enormously popular. So why didn’t we just extend that system to cover everyone?

The proximate answer was politics: Medicare for all just wasn’t going to happen, given both the power of the insurance industry and the reluctance of workers who currently have good insurance through their employers to trade that insurance for something new. Given these political realities, the Affordable Care Act was probably all we could get — and make no mistake, it will vastly improve the lives of tens of millions of Americans.

That's far from certain, because the political obstacles to single-payer -- vehement opposition from conservatives, the might of insurance and other health care industries and the difficulty of selling bigger government to the American public -- may yet be too great to overcome.

"Not in my lifetime. There just isn't the political support," Tim Jost, a law professor at Washington and Lee University and a supporter of the Affordable Care Act, told TPM. "We could not even get a public option when the Democrats had 60 Senate votes. The alternative is to limp along with an ever larger share of Americans receiving ever less care. This doesn't seem to bother a lot of Americans, at least those who pay for political advertising."

"I think that is naive," Jonathan Gruber, an MIT professor and health policy expert, told TPM. "If you look at the history of health care reform, every time we come back to it the proposals are more conservative than the last time."

But the systemic problems would worsen and create pressure for reform. The pre-ACA status quo is a road to disaster, with soaring health care cost projections, growing ranks of uninsured and rising death rates due to lack of insurance. So where would Republicans turn?

Putting all that aside do people really want to support a candidate who was against the mandatory increase of Medicaid but thinks that we should have held out for single payer, which could be decades away if we try and do it all at one time?

If you think that is a logical way to go the Schweitzer is your man.

[merrily]

252. From your original post:

Obviously Roberts would not have found an increase in Medicaid unconstitutional and single payer constitutional.

Nothing in the Obamacare decision implies that single payer (which I refer to as Medicare for all) would be unconstitutional.


I have said nothing about my supporting or not supporting Schweitzer or what the legislature may have done. I am simply disagreeing with your description of a Supreme Court decision.

[Bluenorthwest]

218. No State is allowed to implement a single payer plan until 2017 at the earliest, this is part of ACA

and that sunset date was hard won by the States which do intend to create better and more inclusive plans. Vermont seems like it will be first, but the entire West is certain to follow as soon as is possible. We are all, of course, implementing ACA reforms currently and learning a lot about what we like and don't like.
So to call Schweitzer to task for not having done that which the law he is criticizing actually forbids his State to do is a bit much. Don't you think?

[grantcart]

224. Not at all because you can't implement single payer at the federal level unless the Supreme Court

finds it constitutional.

As Chief Justice Roberts was the deciding vote and he found that increasing Medicaid, an already existing single party plan, unconstitutional no educated observer of the Court believes that they would have found increasing Medicaid unconstitutional but mandatory take over of the entire system constitutional.

I simply used Schweitzer's fantasy of doing it all at one time a bit much, I just expected that most readers would connect the dots.

Beyond that the single largest increase of single payer coverage in the US since Medicaid was adopted are the millions (currently 4 million) who are in expanded Medicaid.

Now here is where Schweitzer really goes off the rails.

He wants single payer but he opposed mandatory expansion of Medicaid. That isn't a bit much it is a ton too much.

Not a profile in courage.

It is clear that the fastest way to single payer is the ACA, get SC approval and expand on that. Anyone who doesn't get that shouldn't be heading to Iowa.

[merrily]

354. FWIW,

I don't think that a single thing in the SCOTUS opinion on Obamacare implies that the SCOTUS would find Medicare for all unconstitutional. (Just so there is no confusion, "Medicare for all" is what I prefer to call single payer.)

[Cha]

259. Precisely and Mahalo grantcart! Plus he's racist

Pig.. President didn't do a fucking thing except be the first black President.

"He credited Obama with the historical significance of being the first black president."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/brian-schweitzer-obamacare-102204.html#ixzz2qW40ZgwI

[MADem]

279. I'm amazed at the number of people who are cheering for this NRA-snuggler~! nt

[Cha]

288. I'm not..at all. So predictable. Schweitzer is the NRA-Keystone Pipe loving

anti-President Obama. How bad could that be bad?

[MADem]

301. 152 recs and counting....some from people who claim to OPPOSE the things this guy supports!

The whole "contrary" schtick gets old after a while.

Pro death penalty, likes stiff sentences for drug offenders, likes "public-private" partnerships for schools, doesn't want taxes raised to pay for education, likes "clean coal," doesn't want MJ legalized...

This guy isn't "all that" when it comes to the near and dear issues, I don't think..he's great on some, and not so great on others.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Brian_Schweitzer.htm

[Cha]

308. And Hates Obamacare.. would could go

wrong!?!! Ask those who have been helped by ACA/Obamacare if Schweitzer's schtick is all that.

Those recs here on DU.. don't mean much to me. It's the sos.

Thanks for the link, MADem!

[dsc]

300. He most probably would have

The problem with the Medicaid expansion in the minds of the SCOTUS was that it forced states to take a program they didn't want to take. Single payer would be just like SS which has already been litigated or for that matter the mandate which Roberts directly upheld.

[LionsTigersRedWings]

35. What does, "the nation's first black president" have to do with this?

I am confused, maybe you can explain what you mean by that?

[MNBrewer]

48. I'm guessing that it's code for "sit down and shut up"

It's clearly meant to shut down discussion.

[uponit7771]

108. Sounding wingerish from the left isolates a lot of Obama supporters? tia

[Capt. Obvious]

52. MUST PROTECT OBAMA

EVEN WHEN NO WAY RELATED TO TOPIC.

[uponit7771]

107. I'd accept "must be smart" first...

[ecstatic]

149. So... Schweitzer is unable to run on his own merits?

He can't explain his ideas without over the top hyperbole and nasty innuendoes? Is that the gist of the replies I'm seeing?

OK... In that case, please proceed. All it means is that Schweitzer will never make it past the first 2 primaries.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. So... he shoudl promise a little bit of net neutrality? A little nicer war in Afghanistan?

We can do better, and I don't think that anything is served by pulling punches. Obama has been a disappointment on a bunch of levels ... starting with "bipartisanship".

This guy won two terms in Montana for saying what he thinks and going after it.

Obama doesn't define what it means to be a democrat.

[geek tragedy]

78. Obama has been good on Net Neutrality, the courts are the problem there. nt

[merrily]

201. Yes and no. The recent court decision was based on how the FCC had classified the providers.

ETA: By saying that, I am not implying that Obama had anything to do with the FCC classification. Rather, my comment goes to your statement that the courts are the "problem." In this instance, the courts have to interpret the statute against the regulations that the FCC promulgated under authority of the statute; and it was the FCC's own regs that were the problem.

It's not a constitutional issue so the FCC and/or Congress should be able to fix it, if anyone chooses so to do.

[jeff47]

235. How the FCC had classified providers in 2002.

There wasn't much of a reason to reclassify them under Obama's FCC until now.

[merrily]

237. As I took pains to state in my post, I was addressing only the comment

that the courts were the problem, not saying anything about Obama, one way or another.

However, I cannot say there was no reason for reclassification and I wonder what your basis for saying that is.

[jeff47]

238. It was too late.

The major consolidations and other changes that the major ISPs wanted had already happened by then.

Converting them to Common Carrier in 2009 wouldn't have brought back the 2001 Internet.

[merrily]

243. Maybe, but it may have prevented the recent decision by the DC Circuit

Court of Appeals. Bringing back the 2001 internet is not the universe of internet goals.

[jeff47]

350. Preventing it really means nothing.

The FCC can still decide to move them to common carrier now.

[merrily]

358. Disagree that preventing an adverse Circuit Court decision means nothing.

Or are we in a scene from Say Anything.

Reclassification would have been far better and there is zero reason not to have reclassified.

It's not as though Genachowski did not touch net neutrality regulations while Commissioner. Besides, anything done under Bushco was suspect.

[jeff47]

367. I'm not so sure it would have been far better

This eliminates a lot of regulation on "information service" providers. That removes alternatives to common carrier.

It means fewer things in the future will be regulated as anything other than common carrier, because creating new definitions like "information service" will not work for the FCC.

[merrily]

382. Yes, amending the regs before an adverse decision from the United States

Circuit Court of Appeals would have been far better, especially since the FTC had amended the net regs in question anyway. If you can't admit even that much, I have to think something else is going on in this discussion. I'm out.

[jeff47]

384. Yes, it's not possible for people to have different opinions on a subject.

[merrily]

385. Baloney.

Revising regs (again), including lengthy and costly rulemaking process, after losing lengthy, costly litigation by the people you still have to regulate, versus

having done it right the first that you revised the same damned regs.

You defended the first alternative twice. The thing speaks for itself.

[jeff47]

386. It also eliminates that path going forward.

So some future communications system won't have a Republican FCC trying to come up with such a shitty way way to "regulate" them.

[merrily]

387. Please see my last two posts to you. Thanks.

[jeff47]

388. Why? You don't bother trying to understand mine.

Instead, you've decided that having a slight difference of opinion must mean evil.

The ruling means a future Republican FCC can't do something like the one in 2002 did. That's a positive outcome. It isn't the only outcome. I have no idea why you think that's some sort of nefarious idea.

[merrily]

389. No. It does not mean that at all.

There is no DC Circuit fairy godmother that causes that result after this decision.

What the decision actually means is that, until Congress or the FCC goes through another lengthy, costly process--if ever--we don't have net neutrality. It does not stop Republicans from doing squat in the future.

[jeff47]

391. Yes, it means they can't apply similar regulations in a similar manner.

Or they will lose a court case extremely quickly.

So in order to get something like net neutrality, they would have to go with common carrier instead of going for a half-assed solution that got us net neutrality, but not everything else that comes with common carrier.

There will be new communications systems that the FCC regulates.

[merrily]

392. Gee, what with losing court cases being as advantageous for

the FCC as you've been claiming in your last dozen posts, why on earth would the prospect of losing a court case ever again deter the FCC from anything?

[uponit7771]

106. +1, the second he begins the trashing is the second he looses 70% minimum dem voters

[Capt. Obvious]

140. "loses"

What was that you said in your reply to me?

[SheilaT]

185. My problem exactly.

He thinks Obamacare will collapse under its own weight. Doesn't want a Canadian health care system, or a British or a French one, but a uniquely American one.

Gotta tell ya, Gov, we have already had a uniquely American health care system and it resulted in millions not covered, other millions vastly undercovered, and bankruptcies from medical bills, usually among those who already have insurance.

[Kermitt Gribble]

256. President Obama is the one who said he wants a "uniquely American" system.

Reread the op.

[quakerboy]

267. You mixed up your quotes...

President Obama is the one who said he wanted "a uniquely American system"

The governor is the one who praised the Canadian system, the public option, and has apparently personally bussed seniors across the border to Canada to get cheaper prescriptions. He also asked for a waiver to turn medicaid into Montana Single payer health care, based on a Canadian model.

[Demo_Chris]

10. Kick and Rec! nt

[PeteSelman]

11. This guy gets it.

Will people be smart enough to figure it out? Doubtful.

[another_liberal]

12. "The Democratic wing . . ."

He must be from, " The Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

I like those positions. I like all of them.

[merrily]

203. Look what happened to the last person who made that claim, though.

[another_liberal]

212. It's a paraphrase of what Howard Dean once said about himself . . .

But I don't know of anything that's "happened" to him lately.

[merrily]

215. Yes, I know. He said it during the 2004 primary.

What happened to him lately has nothing to do with my comment.

[another_liberal]

220. Then what did you mean?

Did you mean that Howard Dean failed to get the Democratic nomination for the Presidency in 2004 because he said:

"I'm Howard Dean, and I'm here to represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

If so, I have to say that does seem like a bit of a reach, merrily.

[merrily]

294. I meant that someone who said, during a primary, that he was from the

Democratic wing of the Democratic Party got treated very badly (IMO) during that 2004 primary.

[another_liberal]

297. True, yes he did get treated badly.

I'm just not sure it was directly linked to that comment of his.

[merrily]

299. It's not important to me if it was linked to the

specific comment.

IMO, he was treated badly then because he was actually from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, meaning a traditional New Deal Democrat, as opposed to the candidates who got the endorsement of the DLC/new Democratic Party establishment in that primary.

[geek tragedy]

248. Yeah, the all-white, gun-humping, Keystone-pimping wing of the party nt

[another_liberal]

278. I like the sound of, "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party is where I see myself. Howard Dean's current positions on gun control and the Keystone pipeline, if that's what you referred to, are actually unknown to me. But do tell me: What's wrong with someone being "all-white?"

[geek tragedy]

291. I'm referring to Schweitzer.

Schweitzer is owned by big carbon and the NRA.

[another_liberal]

295. That is sad to hear.

If that is the case, forget it. Candidates like him we do not need.

[solarhydrocan]

317. "I can live with his gun love...He's everything that John Edwards was..." -geek tragedy 2/23/2013

20. I can live with his gun love--he is from Montana, where guns mean different things than in Chicago.

Single payer populist from a red state? He's everything that John Edwards was supposed to be, but he's gritty instead of shiny.

geek tragedy Sat Feb 23, 2013, 02:39 PM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=289671

[geek tragedy]

326. That was the old Brian Schweitzer, who spoke at the 2012 DNC Convention

That Brian Schweitzer was a Democrat.

The new Brian Schweitzer of 2014 isn't a Democrat, he's half Ralph Nader, half Ron Paul, who's loudly proclaiming his repudiation of the Obama administration and every single thing it has done since 1/20/2009.

[MADem]

302. The Democratic Wing is pro DEATH penalty and supports the NRA a hundred percent? Who knew? nt

[another_liberal]

303. Really?

I wouldn't have said that at all. What Democratic Party are you talking about?

[MADem]

305. This guy that dozens are cheering for in this thread--those are his positions.

He likes the death penalty, he wants harsher sentences for drug offenders, opposes legalization, LOVES the NRA and Keystone Pipeline....and this is the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party" to people here swooning over this guy?

I think he's dogwhistling to people who don't like black people and women, myself. At least, black people and women at the top of a Presidential ticket....

[another_liberal]

362. If the top post had made all of that clear . . .

I'm sure there would have been a lot less "cheering."

Instead the information offered suggested only that, "Schweitzer is most passionate about– single-payer health care, civil liberties, pulling troops out of Afghanistan . . ."

[SecularMotion]

13. Brian Schweitzer, Would-Be Liberal Hero, is an NRA Darling

Becoming famous as a “blue man in a red state,” Schweitzer compromised on core liberal commitments to gun control and allied himself with the NRA. In his 2008 run, Schweitzer was endorsed by the NRA with an “A” rating and a personal visit by Wayne LaPierre for a campaign rally. Schweitzer signed an array of NRA-backed bills into law, including a 2009 “stand your ground” bill that the NRA called a “victory.”

At the time, the County Attorneys association opposed the law, but Schweitzer was unwilling to part ways with his NRA supporters. The law was featured in a major New York Times investigation after the Trayvon Martin trial about Montana’s inability to prosecute a man in Kalispell, Montana for killing the husband of the woman he was having an affair with because of the stand your ground law. The Times failed to acknowledge that it was the popular Democraticic governor who signed the bill into law.

While it’s tempting to write off Schweitzer’s relationship with the NRA as a kind of compromise that Western Democrats must make in order to stay in office, it’s worth recalling that Senator Jon Tester was a supporter of the Manchin-Toomey gun control bill. Schweitzer is either a genuine conservative on gun control or, more troublingly, a candidate willing to “tack hard right” in order to get elected, as he would put it.

On the environment, Schweitzer has similarly been far to the right of the Democratic Party, and he isn’t sorry about it. He blamed “jackasses” in Washington for the delays on the building of the Keystone Pipeline. While Western Democrats have a tradition of producing some of the party’s greatest conservationists, including Secretaries of the Interior Stewart Udall and Bruce Babbitt, Schweitzer has gone the other direction. He has been one of the strongest advocates for expanding coal production, with extensive plans to ship coal to China. That plan has been met with fierce resistance from groups such as the Sierra Club. Western Democrats have a rich tradition of being the vanguards of the party’s environmentalist wing, but Schweitzer does not fit there.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116138/brian-schweitzer-2016-populist-hopeful-nra-darling

[polichick]

16. Important info - especially disappointing on the environment imo.

[solarhydrocan]

27. He's done more for energy independence than any other Democrat since Carter

"Montana had 1 MW of wind power online in January 2005-today --645 MW."

That's walking the walk.

[polichick]

61. And on his positions re the pipeline and coal?

[2naSalit]

133. He's a BIG advocate FOR KXL.

And he ran on a pro-environment, pro stopping f*cking up the wildlife platform and caved really soon after the election. He's kind of like Baucus only he talks a better game. I wouldn't want him as president and I am a Montana resident, here during both Schweitzer's terms. Not really fond of his brand of politics in the least. Sure, he had some good things to write home about but they were few and far between with a lot of really bummer stuff the rest of the time.

I'd consider voting for him if he rean for Baucus' seat but that would be it, only because ANYBODY is better than Baucus and I would prefer they were a Democrat.

Driving around in an electric vehicle is a nice cover but he's only borrowing the thing for attention.

[polichick]

145. Great - another campaign-one-way-govern-another Dem. No thanks.

[2naSalit]

151. Indeed.

He looks and sounds good while the cameras are rolling but in the actual mundane activities like governing, he's all corporate and extractive industry-boy. He's a rancher so the corporate ranchers get what they want.

He promised to stop hazing, capturing and killing the wild bison that migrate outside YNP boundaries looking for food in winter and spring, but it actually expanded under his watch and all he did was Muddy the water. And we taxpayers supply over $3Million/year to support this travesty.

Looky here:

http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/

Here in MT, we've had worse govs but Schweitzer wasn't all that good a gov. He's a teabagger in a (D) costume in reality who will toss a few crumbs to his (D) constituents once in a while but you can't expect him to do anything his corporate overlords wouldn't like.

[geek tragedy]

250. Oh bullshit. Check out Obama's record on energy independence for the entire country

and get back to us about how much Schweitzer has done with the 44th most populous state.

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Shhh ....

We're trying to be a Hero of the Left image hear! Besides, he's not (President) Obama or HRC... Anyone, but them!

[Cha]

274. NRA Darling and Keystone LOVER. But, he fucking thinks the only thing

President Obama did was be Black while Presidentin' so he's their latest fucking hero.

[ProSense]

19. I love these fantasies.

Cheering the anti-Obama.

“Barack Obama is the first president in more than five decades to win at least 51 percent of the national popular vote twice, according to a revised vote count in New York eight weeks after the Nov. 6 election,” Bloomberg writes, adding, “The president nationally won 65.9 million votes -- or 51.1 percent -- against Republican challenger Mitt Romney, who took 60.9 million votes and 47.2 percent of the total cast, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Obama is the first president to achieve the 51 percent mark in two elections since Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower, who did it in 1952 and 1956, and the first Democrat to do so since Franklin D. Roosevelt, who won four consecutive White House races. Roosevelt received 53.4 percent of the vote -- his lowest -- in his last race in 1944.”

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/04/16348268-obama-agenda-first-since-ike-to-win-51-back-to-back

Good luck with that.

[think]

26. Just maybe it is the issues more than the headline.

just maybe....

[ProSense]

28. Fantasy

Schweitzer is doing anything to get noticed.

Obama isn't running in 2016, and the Democratic candidate is going to have to contrast himself with whomever the Republicans choose.

The notion that any Democrat is going to be able to run against Obama's record is an absurd fantasy.

[think]

33. Is "single payer" an issue or a fantasy?

[loyalsister]

37. Is Obama anti- single payer?

or do you think maybe he would have signed it if it could have made it through congress? Why would Sweitzer do better as the anti - Obama than as a candidate who wants to build on the progress that has been made?

[think]

43. As fast as he caved on it I honestly don't know.

I really thought he was for single payer but now I have no idea what he stands for on that and many other issues.

[loyalsister]

164. caved?

Or maybe he understands the reality of governing...

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/june/barack_obama_on_sing.php

There have not been enough votes in congress to pass single payer at any time since it has been proposed. He pushed for healthcare over the objections of some Democrats. He worked very hard to get it done. Why shouldn't Schwietzer show some gravitas and talk about building on the framework of the ACA?

[think]

173. You are correct. It was 2004 Obama that advocated single payer. Not the 2008 candidate

Somehow I believed he would still push for single payer and SETTLE for ACA. I don't how I got that impression. Guess I should have listened closer.

But I seriously thought he'd at least make the case for a public option to the American public so that they understood what most of the rest of the industrialized world is entitled to that Americans are being denied.

[loyalsister]

361. There were legislators making the case

They were the ones who were gathering votes in congress. Unless a person has extreme ODS, they surely know he would have signed amore progressive bill. But, despite the efforts of Democrats in congress, he barely had the votes for the ACA. Would the Democrats in red states like MT, MS, AR, MO, etc have really voted for single payer? Would Max Baucus has suddenly seen the light?

[think]

366. So Bush can get congress to agree to an illegal war based on lies

But Obama couldn't make a stronger stand for single payer? And if anyone thinks otherwise that person must suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome? Seriously?

Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead

Corporate Crime Reporter
March 3, 2009

President Obama’s White House made crystal clear this week: a Canadian-style, Medicare-for-all, single payer health insurance system is off the table.

Obama doesn’t even want to discuss it.

Take the case of Congressman John Conyers (D-Michigan).

Conyers is the leading advocate for single payer health insurance in Congress.

Last week, Conyers attended a Congressional Black Caucus meeting with President Obama at the White House.

During the meeting, Congressman Conyers, sponsor of the single payer bill in the House (HR 676), asked President Obama for an invite to the President’s Marchy 5 health care summit at the White House.

Conyers said he would bring along with him two doctors — Dr. Marcia Angell and Dr. Quentin Young — to represent the majority of physicians in the United States who favor single payer.

Obama would have none of it.

This week, by e-mail, Conyers heard back from the White House — no invite....

~Snip~

Dr. David Himmelstein is a founder and spokesperson for Physicians for a National Health Program.

Himmelstein’s take — Obama is caving to the insurance industry.

“The President once acknowledged that single payer reform was the best option, but now he’s caving in to corporate healthcare interests and completely shutting out advocates of single payer reform,” Himmelstein said. “The majority of Americans favor single payer, and it’s the most popular reform option among doctors and health economists, but no single payer supporter has been invited to participate in the administration’s health care summit. Meanwhile, he’s appointed as his health reform czar Nancy-Ann DeParle, a woman who has made her living advising health care investors and sits on the board of many for-profit firms that have made billions from Medicare. Her appointment — and the invitation list to the healthcare summit — is a clear signal that the administration plans to propose a corporate-friendly health reform that has no chance of actually solving our health care crisis.”

Obama to single payer advocates: drop dead.

Full post:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/march/obama_to_single_paye.php

About PNHP

Physicians for a National Health Program is a single issue organization advocating a universal, comprehensive single-payer national health program. PNHP has more than 18,000 members and chapters across the United States.

Since 1987, we've advocated for reform in the U.S. health care system. We educate physicians and other health professionals about the benefits of a single-payer system--including fewer administrative costs and affording health insurance for the 50 million Americans who have none.

Our members and physician activists work toward a single-payer national health program in their communities. PNHP performs ground breaking research on the health crisis and the need for fundamental reform, coordinates speakers and forums, participates in town hall meetings and debates, contributes scholarly articles to peer-reviewed medical journals, and appears regularly on national television and news programs advocating for a single-payer system.

PNHP is the only national physician organization in the United States dedicated exclusively to implementing a single-payer national health program.

http://www.pnhp.org/about/about-pnhp

Tell me again how Obama fought for single payer. I'm listening....

[loyalsister]

368. I didn't say he fought for it

I said he would have signed it if it had come across his desk, and the reason it didn't is that congress couldn't even get the votes for a public option.

Comparing it to the IWR? When the public was bloodthirsty after 9\11. Unlike the ACA, it passed with bipartisan support.

[1StrongBlackMan]

174. That was a wayyy more polite response ...

caved? Or maybe he understands the reality of governing...

I was thinking: "Or maybe he can count ..."

[quakerboy]

269. When the going gets tough, the tough

settle?

There's a lot to admire about President Obama, and his accomplishments. But, like anyone, he is not perfect. I think any fair reading of the historic record shows he made far more mistakes in his approach to passing insurance reform in 2009/10 than all the overblown media about mistakes in the 2013 roll out.

My personal critique of the ACA is a bit mellowed from what it once was. I'm trying to give it time to go into effect and see what all results from it. And the fact that next week I will be able to see a non-er DR for the first time in 10 years or so definitely helps me with that patience. It ain't just about me, but its hard to not have some good feelings about something that benefits you personally.

But this concept that the president had no options and was just responding to the needs of "reality" is disingenuous. He made a choice to accept the absolute minimum. It was, in my opinion, a mistake. I would guess in your opinion it was not a mistake. But either way, it was a choice that the President made.

As per Schweitzer showing gravitas.. According to the article, he requested a waiver to build the ACA resources into single payer for Montana. Apparently he was denied. Honestly, Ive not followed this guy. He may not be worth spit, and like most politicians, probably has a fatal flaw or three. But I'm certainty willing to examine his record based on the interesting things he been quoted on having said. And this conversation thread isn't going to set my perception of him, because as best as I can tell, most of the discussion has been about personality, with little regard for fair treatment of the facts and much emphasis for either criticizing or protecting the president from criticism.

[loyalsister]

359. There were Democrats who wouldn't support a public option

In what fantasy land would they have supported single payer? Obama needed all of the Democrats votes. He barely had them for ACA, and not because it was too conservative.

[solarhydrocan]

53. It was Democrat Max Baucus (D-Insurance) that had single payer advocates *arrested*

at a hearing

Lots of people like to forget that, and blame republicans. The truth cuts like a knife.

Baucus’s Raucous Caucus: Doctors, Nurses and Activists Arrested Again for Protesting Exclusion of Single-Payer Advocates at Senate Hearing on Healthcare

Advocates of single-payer universal healthcare — the system favored by most Americans — continue to protest their exclusion from discussions on healthcare reform. On Tuesday, five doctors, nurses and single-payer advocates were arrested at a Senate Finance Committee hearing, bringing the total number of arrests in less than a week to thirteen. We speak with two of those arrested: Single Payer Action founder Russell Mokhiber and Dr. Margaret Flowers of Physicians for a National Health Program. [includes rush transcript]
Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Baucus’s raucous caucus. Five people were arrested yesterday at a Senate Finance Committee hearing on healthcare reform and charged with “disruption of Congress.” They were protesting Committee chair Senator Max Baucus’s refusal to include any advocates of a single-payer healthcare system in a series of hearings on healthcare. Last week, eight doctors, lawyers and activists were arrested as they sought to put a single-payer advocate at a table of fifteen witnesses. At yesterday’s hearing, none of the thirteen witnesses testifying was an advocate of single payer.

more http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/13/baucus_raucus_caucus_doctors_nurses_and

[polichick]

156. True. The enemy is not just on the other side of the aisle.

[former9thward]

229. Reagan got to 51% in his elections.

[solarhydrocan]

22. Maddow hates the NRA but she is gun friendly

no one seems to have a problem with that



Rachel Maddow at the Westside Pistol & Rifle Range
TV's top lefty gets her gun
Rollingstone.com

June 27, 2012 1:18 PM

She's America's leading lefty wonk, complete with chunky glasses, Ph.D., and a deep faith in activist government. But Rachel Maddow is also, a little unexpectedly, totally into guns. Which is how come she ended up at the Westside Pistol & Rifle Range in Manhattan for a recent Rolling Stone photo shoot. (Maddow is profiled by Ben Wallace-Wells in the current issue of the magazine.) "I used to bring my radio producers," she says in this clip. "Everyone here's really nice."

Click here to see a video of Rachel at the Range

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/rachel-maddow-at-the-westside-pistol-rifle-range-20120627

[SecularMotion]

39. Opposing the NRA is good

Support of the NRA's push to weaken our gun laws is bad.

[Victor_c3]

47. I have to agree with her stance on that

I'm definitely not a gun nut, but I do have a carry-conceal pistol permit and a lot of experience with firearms. I'm a firm believer that you have the right to own a weapon to defend yourself, but sensible regulations have to be in place.

As distasteful and some here might find it, firearms are a hobby for a lot of people. Hunters, also sometimes viewed distastefully, were among some of the first conservationist in our country.

Democrats shouldn't get themselves mired into being "anti-gun", but more "pro-sensible regulation".

[SidDithers]

102. Dude, now you're just recycling your old material...

Sid

[uponit7771]

113. I'm not opposed to guns, I'm opposed to nuts using them... the NRA is not... and neither is this guy

[bvar22]

136. President O is "gun friendly" too!

Lots of Democrats are gun owners and shooting enthusiasts.

[solarhydrocan]

330. + 100,000! Thanks for that Excellent reminder! nt

[Historic NY]

343. I agree f--k the NRA....I've had a permit since I was 18..imagine that.

and carried a weapon everyday for 31 yrs. The NRA doesn't speak for me.

[raven mad]

38. Folks will never understand the difference between

owning and using guns for their purpose in the "boonies" (like up here), and the rampant handgun idiocy in large cities.

I hunt. I own guns. I don't always get my moose (sometimes I miss getting a moose tag for the year, it's like a lottery), but I won't go hiking without a good sized handgun in rural areas. You can't outrun a determined bear - although they usually don't attack, some do, and preparation is all. I camp a lot, never keep "trash" including food, waste products, etc. near the area, and I've still been sat on (literally) by a black bear. He was sitting on one side of the tent. I wasn't. I didn't shoot him - I think we were both so freaked, that he ran one way, and I went the other!

The NRA started out with good intentions. The republicans/rednecks/fundamentalists took it over and perverted it totally. My dad bought me a lifetime membership when I was 12, in 1966. I still can't shake the bastards. But in states like Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota et al, you had better have a decent rating from the NRA or the "common folk" just ain't gonna getcha.

Sarah Palin never hunted a moose in her life, by the way. No Wasilla resident would brag like she did ("mama griz" my ASS). THEY can hunt. And they pack out the meat, and eat it. Just like I do.

If your only criteria for voting for a Presidential candidate is that his/her NRA rating is an "F", maybe you should recheck your priorities. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just explanatory of a weird rural (bush Alaska and other states) way of life that isn't understood by many. We mostly don't care about NRA ratings. Just that you leave our guns alone if we're allowed by law to have them.

The pastor of our local Friends Church (Quaker) is a .30-06 shooting expert. He teaches shooting at a nearby range.

[SecularMotion]

44. Would you vote for a Democrat with an "F" rating from the NRA?

[raven mad]

49. Of course, depending on her stance on the really gut issues.

I've been a registered Dem since 1972, and have never voted otherwise. I have, however, written in candidates when given no other option. I am not a single-issue voter. That's for the right-wing, who revolve around several: race, religion, abortion, taxes, etc. I'd vote depending on whether or not the "F" rating meant those of us who use guns in legitimate ways, are licensed, are not mentally ill, and have had background checks, can keep them.

But there are a LOT of "rural" Dems that "went to the dark side" on one issue - guns. That's sad; they didn't see the big picture, and are suffering for it. I look at the candidate, look at the issues we're facing, and decide. One "F" does not an entire report card make! (I know, I got one in AP biology........... and still made the dean's list!)

[uponit7771]

112. You are NOT going to convince people that "Stand Your Ground" laws aren't meant to allow lynchings..

..20th century style

[raven mad]

118. That was not my point at all.

I've never aimed a gun at anything I didn't intend to eat, and believe me, even in these economically difficult times, cannibalism is not on the agenda! I'm not sure where I am on "Stand Your Ground" laws, as I don't know anything about them. In this rather isolated community, half the time we don't even lock our doors!

[uponit7771]

125. I'm black, have a black child.. live in the south.. I sure in the HELL know where I stand on SYG law

...laws...

Let that be know from this guy... bamb... he's lost 97% of the black vote.. PERIOD


There's not ONE person I've talked to and I'd wager there aren't many altogether that..... no matter what their station in life that's a person of color who doesn't think SYG was made to be able to kill people of color without jail time...

[ConservativeDemocrat]

169. You can be both pro-gun and anti legalized-shootout/racist-murder

...it is possible.

You can also be pro-gun and pro-enforced-gun-training. Many people who handle firearms are most incensed by the stories of morons who wave guns around, treating them in an unsafe manner.

I don't think there is a disagreement here.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[uponit7771]

273. Yeap...this guys pro syg ...

[MADem]

304. And he's pro death penalty. Wants tougher drug laws. He's a real charmer when it comes to the

circumstances of the "overserved" customers of the federal prison system. I think he'll lose a huge chunk of the "D" Hispanic vote as well.

[tiredtoo]

63. Damn, another bubble burst.

And here I thought we had come up with the perfect candidate. Guess we will have to do some compromising here. look at the values and issues of each candidate and determine which one best meets our conditions.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. I don't care.

I'm ambivalent toward the NRA, but gun control is not among the top 10 issues harming this country.

It's a waste of time, attention, credibility and energy and is ultimately pointless because no meaningful gun control is ever going to pass congress.

As far as environmental creds, a president only signs the bills that congress sends him. Win back the house and Speaker Pelosi will take care of that problem. I personally think that unemployment and inequality are such huge and immediate problems that only a bold and strongly populist president is going to solve it.

[uponit7771]

111. yeah, the guys who support "Stand Your Ground" laws and bashes Obama.. that should go well

[uponit7771]

110. oh... oh.. HUCK FIM!!!!!

[yurbud]

184. I'd rather have someone wrong on guns and right on economics, trade, and foreign policy

[grahamhgreen]

207. +1

[Number23]

200. Too late! Already 127 recs for the dude and I'm sure that number will climb

All some of these folks had to see was "ANTI OBAMA" and their fingers headed to the rec button without a second thought or glance.

I'm sure there will be pro-Ron Paul/Jim Crow or some other shit that will come out about this person soon and all of the folks kicking and recing this thread will suddenly do the "I NEVER thought he was up to snuff" dance soon enough.

[grahamhgreen]

206. So your saying he can win over NRA types?

[daleanime]

15. K&R....

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Lots of things I like about Brian, a few things concern me but he sure can give a speech

and I am open to considering him for support. He's a good candidate, skilled and energetic.

[solarhydrocan]

25. We're told all the time that no candidate can be everything to everyone

On the important issues, Schweitzer is on the correct side. IMHO

Is getting out of Afghanistan more important than whether he likes the NRA or not?

[7962]

20. He's in full support of the Keystone pipeline, and he's also cut taxes many times.

"As governor, I spent eight years, every single year I was governor we had the largest budget surplus in the history of Montana. I cut more taxes than any governor in the history of Montana, invested more new money in education," Schweitzer said. "If a Democrat is good with money, you can't beat 'em."

"Democrats who just write checks and don't check how much money is in the bank account, they hurt our brand name," Schweitzer said. "When you've got a Democrat like me who is good with money and Republicans have to admit it, they say, 'Oh, we don't want to run against him again.'"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/06/brian-schweitzer-president-_n_4548321.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Im not saying that disqualifies him, but he's not just someone who checks off everything on a liberal checklist. I saw his interview on "Joe", and he seemed passionate about his positions. To me, Keystone is no big deal. The oil is going to be pumped and its going to be moved, regardless of what anyone thinks. Its just a matter of who does the work. We may as well get the jobs and work on it.

[merrily]

32. I am not sure that cutting taxes is, in itself, a minus.

Taxing people, in and of itself, is not a liberal value.

The issue is what kinds of spending did he cut in order to cut taxes?

[Progressive dog]

42. Oh good a Keystone supporting, tax cutting candidate--

he should get the Republican vote.

[7962]

196. Apparently he has been getting both in Montana! nt

[sulphurdunn]

21. Nothing scares the establishment

like a member of the establishment who tells the truth.

[bvar22]

143. You got that right!

Somebody has already flashed the Bat Signal.

[uponit7771]

146. ...and supports Stand Your Ground laws? come on folk

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

315. Shhh...they don't care. That's for us "black folk" to worry about.

[merrily]

30. I guess it will depend on whether he thinks he can raise money for a credible campaign.

I am not sure that running against Obama is the way to raise money from people like Buffet, Soros, Hollyood, etc., though. They seem to like Obama.

I just hope for a real primary, not an anointing.

[kristopher]

36. Screw him and his coal-loving, tar-sands-embracing, climate-killing, idiotic beliefs. nt

[MisterP]

177. wolf-killing, too

[SHRED]

40. More guns, more oil, and more coal

I'll pass.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

45. No Democrat can win without the black vote!

I like Schweitzer a lot. Always have. But I think he's an idiot if he thinks he can alienate the most loyal Democrats and still win. I don't think so!

[ProSense]

56. Reminds me of

"I like Schweitzer a lot. Always have. But I think he's an idiot if he thinks he can alienate the most loyal Democrats and still win. I don't think so!"

...of these two threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100251866
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100219446

Cheering the anti-Obama. How'd that work out:

“Barack Obama is the first president in more than five decades to win at least 51 percent of the national popular vote twice, according to a revised vote count in New York eight weeks after the Nov. 6 election,” Bloomberg writes, adding, “The president nationally won 65.9 million votes -- or 51.1 percent -- against Republican challenger Mitt Romney, who took 60.9 million votes and 47.2 percent of the total cast, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Obama is the first president to achieve the 51 percent mark in two elections since Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower, who did it in 1952 and 1956, and the first Democrat to do so since Franklin D. Roosevelt, who won four consecutive White House races. Roosevelt received 53.4 percent of the vote -- his lowest -- in his last race in 1944.”

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/04/16348268-obama-agenda-first-since-ike-to-win-51-back-to-back

Good luck with that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. You think there's strong support for the Afghan war and NSA spying among the black community?

I am disappointed if we're stuck with corporatism and authoritarianism as a democratic brand because it's impolitic to criticize Obama.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

76. I they those are priorities in the black community but not TOP priorities

I am black, but I don't speak for the black community. However, in my view, I don't think those things are top priorities as they seem to be for liberal whites. I just don't. The economy is #1 because joblessness, unemployment, poverty, homelessness...these issues tend to affect black Americans much more than they do the larger community.

See my post #75 above.

[Number23]

208. Polls show repeatedly that the folks most concerned with NSA spying are conservatives

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/06/most-americans-still-ok-nsa-spying-programs

Hell, this article is from 2006 and shows Democrats evenly split on NSA spying while Repubs supported it more then because Bush was the one doing it - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/12/AR2006051200375_pf.html

It's not just black Democrats that believe that other issues are more pressing.

[merrily]

213. The article you cite does not support your subject line.

A certain percentage of Republicans would have, when polled, claimed to support ANYthing Bush (or any Republican President) did while a certain percentage of Democrats would do the same for Obama (or any Democratic President).

Conversely, a certain percentage of Republicans, when polled, would criticize a Democratic President for ANYthing.

[Number23]

219. I know what I posted, thanks

"Support for the program is far higher among Democrats and liberals than among Republicans and strong conservatives, reversing Bush-era political divisions on issues of privacy vs. security."

Even the laughable Common Dreams supports that:

Only 37 percent of Democrats responded that the surveillance agency "goes too far"; that's compared to 47 percent of Republicans and 51 percent of independents.

Also, asked if the NSA intrusions on "some Americans' privacy rights" were justifiable or unjustifiable, Democrats were 18 points less likely than Republicans and independents to say they were unjustifiable. https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/11/21-5

And your response doesn't address what I've posted in any way. I simply stated that the lack of support for the NSA spying comes more from conservatives than anyone else. That's not in dispute.

[merrily]

222. My response did address what you posted. The concept that party loyalty plays a role in how people

respond to polls goes to whether objections to the NSA are really conservative values or not. Your own post pointed out that conservatives supported the NSA actions when Bush was in charge, but not when Obama is in charge. It's hard to pin that on conservative values, rather than party loyalty.

[Number23]

228. My point was and is that most Americans are okay with NSA surveillance but that most of the folks

NOT okay with it now are conservatives. That may be because of who is president, the location of the moon, the time of the month or a number of reasons. Even in 2006 when Bush was president, half of Dems were okay with surveillance.

You can parse that truth a hundred different ways to fit whatever point you think is important but that doesn't change it in any way.

[merrily]

232. I think the party loyalty issue is both patently obvious from your own post and

significant in general. I understand that it is not consistent with the point that you thought your post was making.

[Number23]

236. IN 2006 WHEN BUSH WAS PRESIDENT, HALF OF DEMS WERE OKAY WITH SURVEILLANCE

That kind of blows your Party Loyalty Above All theme out of the water. And I do think that party loyalty plays a large part in this, but your insistence that it's the only variable and running up and down this thread looking to start pointless arguments is asinine.

If the very simple, VERY uncomplicated thought that the majority of folks who do not support surveillance are conservatives is that distressing to you, then that's just too bad. Because it's the truth no matter how much that may pain you to acknowledge it.

[merrily]

239. Conservatives supported NSA surveillance under Bush, but not under Obama.

So, no, the party loyalty theme is not blown out of the water. Obviously, you are far more distressed than I am, but save the snark and the caps for someone they may impress. Perhaps someone under the age of 11.

[Number23]

242. And I will refer you to my first post in this thread that you decided to leap upon

which stated QUITE CLEARLY that the people least supportive of NSA spying are CONSERVATIVES. You have burned 100 calories and still been unable to dispute that fact and it's obvious that is distressing to you judging by your REPEATED need to post meaningless responses. Only you know exactly WHY that distresses you so much and I can guarantee you that you are the only that cares.

Thank you for playing but you are now done wasting my time.

[merrily]

245. Post deleted by author.

[JI7]

241. when i go to other sites with open forums, it is always wingnuts who bring up this crap

in fact the worst attacks on Obama and other Dems on DU are usually very much the same as what i get from wingnuts on those other sites.

the links are often the same also.

you are right, it's not just black Democrats either. it's most of the Dem party.

[Number23]

251. Exactly right.

in fact the worst attacks on Obama and other Dems on DU are usually very much the same as what i get from wingnuts on those other sites.

Yep. Including the protestations and obfuscations of where most of the lack of support is coming from.

[geek tragedy]

85. Black people will not vote for someone whose entire campaign is meant to insult

the President.

Nor will they vote for someone who plagiarizes Paul Ryan, Karl Rove, and Mitch McConnell in order to come up with his talking points for advocating repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

He's just another angry Obama-hating white guy.

[Capt. Obvious]

74. I missed the part of the OP

where he alienates the black vote.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

75. The OP suggests that Schweitzer will be the "anti-Obama" candidate...

...that he will run a campaign that will be either explicitly or implicitly anti-Obama. I'm saying that if ANY Democrat attempts to trash or distance themselves from Obama, it will hurt him. Ask Al Gore. Hell, ask the 2007-2008 Hillary and Bill Clinton how that worked out for them. If Schweitzer think he can run as this folksy, Midwestern kind of Democrat and forget about Urban America, well, that may work out there in the midwest, but it won't work where most Americans live.

I agree with him on 99% of the issues and I like him, but the OP's thread is antagonistic and hostile. I don't think it is wise to try and divide the Democratic Party base as the OP is attempting to do.

That is not what Schweitzer is doing; he is not EXPLICITLY saying that he is the anti-Obama candidate. However, if he positions himself that way, he will alienate loyal Democrats. Just saying. I think it would be a deadly move.

I support him over Hillary Clinton, but if either of them say or do anything to alienate black voters--the Democratic Party's most loyal voters--it would be the most stupid, idiotic thing they could ever do!

[liberal_at_heart]

249. The Democratic Party is divided. Left of center democrats are tired of democrats who act like

republicans. And I'm sorry but to say that minorities would automatically not like this guy because he plans on doing things differently than Obama is assuming that minorities only vote based on someone's skin color, and they don't.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

321. No we do not vote based on skin color. That's a stupid thing to say, but there is an affinity there

also. Barack Obama has been a great president. I'm sorry, but he has. And he has put up with a lot of bullshit from ALL sides of the ideological spectrum--much of it coming from liberal whites as from conservative ones. There have been plenty of discussions about these issues in black churches, within places and other institutions where black Americans typically tend to meet, gather and have politically-oriented discussions and activities. No we do not vote based solely on skin color--we are sophisticated and intelligent voters. However, I don't think we as a group will abandon Barack Obama, just as we didn't abandon Bill Clinton who some suggested was "the first black president". (Of course I take great issue with that, as I strongly disagree, but oh well.)

I just think Schweitzer is making an incredibly stupid mistake if he thinks he can alienate the black community. And if he is belittling the black community by suggesting that Obama is only his skin color (see the thread started by Beacool), well then, he has already lost me.

He ought not play the race card.

And finally, if it is true that he supports Stand Your Ground laws, well, I will tell you right now that that's a sore subject for most black Americans in this country in light of the Trayvon Martin tragedy. If Schweitzer is pro-gun AND pro-SYG, he has already lost the black vote. I'm willing to take that to the bank.

[liberal_at_heart]

339. Well we will just have to disagree about whether he has been a great president or not.

His Race to the Top, Common Core Curriculum, and tying federal funding to state standardized testing was enough to turn me independent. I have seen my special education student suffer because they are trying to force him to learn stuff faster than he is capable all so they can have good test scores, so they can get the funding they desperately need. And by the way it is the schools in economically disadvantaged neighborhoods with predominately black students who are fighting this the hardest because these education policies hurt them the most. We had a couple of high schools in poor neighborhoods in Seattle where the teachers refused to administer the state standardized testing.

[geek tragedy]

81. Where he says the only good thing about Obama is that he was the first black President.

Kind of a two-fer--pretend to be all good about racism, but speaking in code to the white racists that yeah Obama's nothing but an affirmative action president.

That said, let him run on repealing Obamacare and bringing back DADT since he's so sure Obama did nothing good.

[uponit7771]

114. He supported SYG in his state... he's done already.. HUCK FIM!!

[Number23]

214. You should know that your perception is spot on and already being picked up in the media

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4335929

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

309. Thank you. I'm not sure what we're saying is so controversial. The OP is the one being naive

and antagonistic with his/her tone. I'm glad Beacool gets it. The Clintons hopefully learned their lesson in 2008...well, at least I hope Hillary did. I'm not so sure about Bill. He still runs off at the mouth from time to time.

[noiretextatique]

264. sure...we will all rush out an vote for the GOP candidate

never going to happen. black people will still vote against the GOP.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

306. Of course you don't think I'm that fucking stupid. We won't do that. Many will stay home.

You know that as well as I do.

[noiretextatique]

393. no, i don't. but i think you are overraching

in the worst economic climate in my lifetime, i don't think droves of black people are going to stay home because someone runs as the anti-obama. no way in hell he will get the nomination anyway. the third way types will never let that happen.

[dotymed]

46. Sure, as candidate Hillary,

she can be forced "to stake out some leftist positions", but as we have been shown, when one is elected they become right centrists pretty damned fast.

That is why it is so important to have a candidate with a history that we can look at.

No one beats Bernie Sanders IMO, but I prefer Schweitzer to any other active candidate so far.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

338. Learn about his record before you say that. I'm almost positive that he and Bernie would not see

eye to eye on a great number of things. Read up on his record.

Project Vote Smart

I am shocked, appalled and heartbroken by what I have learned.

[dotymed]

365. What a "coup"

for the majority of Americans (and the world), if Bernie Sanders became our next POTUS.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

372. If Bernie was the nominee, I'd support him 100%! If Schweitzer was, I would not. Bernie does not

make condescending comments about blacks and he certainly doesn't support Stand Your Ground laws. He wins!

I'm frankly amazed by how many DUers still support Schweitzer despite this fact. Well, I shouldn't be, but I am.

[cantbeserious]

50. My Kind Of Candidate

eom

[Recursion]

55. I am a big Schweitzer fan

I really hope he runs.

[SidDithers]

58. Kucinich 2016!!...nt

Sid

[SCantiGOP]

88. Kucinich??

Only question would be if he could lose worse than McGovern and Mondale.

[FSogol]

92. Spot on. n/t

[treestar]

271. First thought here, too

And Dennis wasn't so insulting to other party members who held high offices.

[MADem]

318. BRUTAL!!!!!!!!

As the truth so very often is....

[Arkana]

59. Schweitzer's also got an A rating from the NRA and his stances on energy issues

are a little tough to swallow.

[Mr Dixon]

60. SMH

He has already rubbed me the wrong way, bashing Obama and Hillary SMH……no vote from me. Smells like his is selling some everything you want to hear BS, like he can get any of this shit done really and I guess the GOP will just standby and do nothing right? SMH

[ProSense]

67. Murkowski pushes Obama on Keystone XL, crude-export ban

Murkowski pushes Obama on Keystone XL, crude-export ban

By Laura Barron-Lopez

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) wants President Obama to get on board with her push for lifting the U.S. ban on crude exports and approving the proposed Keystone XL pipeline.

In a letter sent to Obama on Tuesday, Murkowski called on the president to take executive action.

"While I believe you retain the executive authority necessary to lift the ban on crude exports, if you need legislative support from the Congress in order to do so, you will always have a willing partner from Alaska," Murkowski wrote in the letter on Tuesday.

Last week, she released a white paper on the benefits associated with expanding the country's energy trade, with a specific look at crude exports.

- more -

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/195424-murkowski-pushes-obama-on-keystone-xl-crude-export-ban

The anti-Obama candidate:

Montana's Democratic governor slams ‘jackasses’ in DC for Keystone delay

By Ben Geman

Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer (D) is expressing frustration with the debate in Washington over the Keystone XL pipeline, which he strongly supports.

“Ninety per cent of these jackasses that are complaining about the Keystone pipeline in Washington, D.C., one year ago wouldn't have even known where the Keystone was. While we were doing the heavy lifting here in Montana and in South Dakota and in Kansas and Oklahoma ... in Washington, D.C. ... all these great defenders had never heard of Keystone before,” Schweitzer said in an interview published Thursday.

- more -

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/212439-montana-gov-slams-anti-keystone-jackasses-in-dc

[Holly_Hobby]

69. Yeah, just what we need, another cowboy n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

334. Another cowboy posing as a "Man of the People" and Middle America falls for it: Raygun, Bush...

...when will they learn. In Urban America, we shake our heads in unison...and in disgust!!

[Larkspur]

77. Schweitzer is an economic populist and pro-civil rights

and he knows how to attack the Righties.

No where did I see him bash President Obama.

Brian is trying to run Left of Hillary and this is his start.

My only issues with him are his support for the Keystone XL Pipeline and gun issues. It will be interesting to see how he addresses those to a national audience. Of course, Keystone pipeline will be decided upon by President Obama.

[geek tragedy]

80. then you didn't read the article.

His response when asked to say a single nice thing about Obama was to engage in race baiting.

But at the moment, Schweitzer is rubbing his chin, looking up at the ceiling, searching – unsuccessfully – for just the right words. The question was simple enough: Is there a single thing President Obama has done that you consider a positive achievement?

Finally, he spoke.

“My mother, God rest her soul, told me ‘Brian, if you can’t think of something nice to say about something change the subject,’” he said.

But he couldn’t help himself, slamming Obama’s record on civil liberties (the NSA revelations were “un-effing-believable”), his competency (“They just haven’t been very good at running things”), and above all, Obamacare (“It will collapse on its own weight”).

Eventually, he paused to acknowledge Obama’s historic role as the first black president. But by that standard, Obama’s usefulness ended the day he took the oath of office.

Schweitzer’s scorn for Obama has led him to hatch a surprising plan.

Hillary's going to stomp this guy hard. He's on record as saying Obama did nothing good in his term in office. Good luck running as the anti-ACA, anti-DADT repeal, anti-green energy candidate, Brian.

[freshwest]

262. EPIC FAIL: 'if you can’t think of something nice to say' TOO LATE FOR THAT, HUH?

And the racist 'first black president' remark is disgusting. I'm really tired of this wingnut shit.

Hillary won't do well, though. Not because of her personally; but some her followers turned out to be racist and voted for McCain.

Those that I knew left the party over Obama, have never come back and vote Repug still. They were never Democrats to begin with.

Schweitzer needs to go full Tea and get on the ticket with Rand Paul. No daylight between them. That's who will vote for him.

[JVS]

280. Keystone XL is probably going to go through no matter who is president.

It sucks, but the prospect of regularly exploding oil trains (that town in Quebec last year and then more recently in North Dakota) is going to make support for the pipeline the "sensible" choice or "lesser evil"

[geek tragedy]

79. Running as an Obama-hater is a surefire way to get humiliated in a Democratic primary.

But at the moment, Schweitzer is rubbing his chin, looking up at the ceiling, searching – unsuccessfully – for just the right words. The question was simple enough: Is there a single thing President Obama has done that you consider a positive achievement?

Finally, he spoke.

“My mother, God rest her soul, told me ‘Brian, if you can’t think of something nice to say about something change the subject,’” he said.

But he couldn’t help himself, slamming Obama’s record on civil liberties (the NSA revelations were “un-effing-believable”), his competency (“They just haven’t been very good at running things”), and above all, Obamacare (“It will collapse on its own weight”).

Eventually, he paused to acknowledge Obama’s historic role as the first black president. But by that standard, Obama’s usefulness ended the day he took the oath of office.Schweitzer’s scorn for Obama has led him to hatch a surprising plan.

He's going to try to cobble together a coalition of angry leftists and white racists who cant's stomach Obama. Good luck selling that in a party wherein Obama has an 80-90% approval rating.

[freshwest]

90. He'll get the LeftTea vote. Maybe go third party, LIbertarian or the new Conservative Party. n/t

[ForgoTheConsequence]

131. Funny....

Considering he's further to the left on economic and health care issues than Obama..... Keep dreaming though.

[geek tragedy]

253. He hates Medicaid and is aligned with Paul Ryan on the ACA.

To the point he steals his talking points from Paul Ryan.

[noiretextatique]

263. he supports single payer

it's in the article.

[geek tragedy]

265. so what? Single payer isn't the law and won't have the votes

to become the law anytime soon.

So, what would happen is Schweitzer would cooperate with Republicans to gut or repeal entirely the ACA with nothing suitable to replace it.

He can't be allowed anywhere near the White House.

He hates Medicaid.

[ecstatic]

152. LOL @ "LeftTea" nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

314. How can you say that?

You're to the right if the large group of people you're trying to smear with "Left Tea". Since your ideology is much closer to the baggers than the progressives are, how can you say that without noticing the inherent hypocrisy in your statement?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

332. Left is right, up is down.

Nixon, Romney, Heritage Foundation Care is now "progressive" and supporting single payer makes you right wing.


The third way democrats have won.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

336. Sadly he'll find plenty of them right here on DU. There are plenty of Obama haters and bashers right

here. They'll feel right at home. All the Zimmerman, pro-gun cheerleaders and skip down the Yellow Brick Road, hand in hand with Schweitzer.

I must say I am heartbroken and disgusted by what I am reading here tonight.

[geek tragedy]

337. Most of the Obamahaters at DU are Naderites on the left.

A few gun trolls, of course, but mostly those who hate every Democrat who commits the crime of depriving Republicans of victory.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

341. Nader gladly accepted money from the wingnuts, so who's the real enemy? Really, they're no better.

I've said this for many years. That's what defines ODSers. They are no better than what's on the political right.

And like I said, I knew the would make excuses for Schweitzer simply because he may be right on a few issues. They'll pick and choose--just as they do with Ron and Rand Paul--then ride or die with those people. But with Obama, he'll never be good enough no matter what he does. Again, that's ODS...no better than what's on the other side.

[geek tragedy]

342. Same shit, different pile, as the saying goes., nt

[Vashta Nerada]

82. Schweitzer has (mostly) good ideas, but I don't like the fact that he's running as an anti-Obama.

Why can't he stick to the issues?

[marlakay]

83. I like Brian but think this is the wrong strategy

Most of us like Obama a lot, we are just disappointed that he could have done so much more if he wasn't caught up in thinking he could bring peace with republicans.

I think even Obama knows he messed up with that.

But if Brian keeps trash talking a guy many of us think is good just misguided, he will turn off a lot of people, just reading this put him down a few points for me.

That's what polititicians don't realize, we need to hear more about what they are for than what the other guy did wrong.

Obama brought hope even if he didn't fulfill all of it, the people need hope.

[hrmjustin]

84. Should make an interesting candidate.

[Le Taz Hot]

86. Oh, look,

an actual Democrat. 'Tis a rare siting but every now and then one comes out from hiding. I'm DEFINITELY interested.

[SidDithers]

89. From Schweitzer...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/montana-governor-assails-washington-politicians-over-keystone-delay/article548611/

Montana governor assails Washington politicians over Keystone XL delay

Montana’s governor says the Keystone XL pipeline from Alberta’s oil sands to the Gulf Coast will eventually be built and he blames the delay on “jackasses” in Washington who have only recently discovered the issue.

“Blah, blah, blah, Washington, D.C., politics. If you want to get something a) not done and b) cussed and discussed, send it to Washington, D.C.,” Gov. Brian Schweitzer, a Democrat, said in an interview with The Canadian Press. “It’s going to get built.

“Ninety per cent of these jackasses that are complaining about the Keystone pipeline in Washington, D.C., one year ago wouldn’t have even known where the Keystone was. While we were doing the heavy lifting here in Montana and in South Dakota and in Kansas and Oklahoma ... in Washington, D.C. ... all these great defenders had never heard of Keystone before.”

The pipeline, which would extend the reach of an existing oil line that delivers crude to the U.S. Midwest, has become a major political flashpoint as U.S. President Barack Obama seeks re-election.

Sid

[Le Taz Hot]

94. I said "interested."

Come 2016, I'll research all of the candidates, as I always do, and make my decision.

[SidDithers]

95. Fair enough...nt

Sid

[geek tragedy]

91. Actual Democrats don't plagiarize Paul Ryan and Karl Rove when talking about

repealing the ACA.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

135. He wants to replace it with Medicare for all.....

See the difference.....? Doubt it, but maybe if you squint really hard........



Keep defending NixonCare though, real progressive of you!

[geek tragedy]

138. Yes, so what the means is that Brian Schweitzer would take

office having promised the entire country to get rid of Obamacare.

But without the votes to enact Medicare for All.

Gee, what could go wrong?

P.S.

Keep defending NixonCare though, real progressive of you!

[jeff47]

96. Yep, actual Democrats love the Keystone pipeline and tax cuts.

Oh wait....

[Le Taz Hot]

98. You mean like Hillary?

Oh wait . . .

[jeff47]

101. I'm not saying she is.

In fact, I'll be voting for anyone other than Hillary in the primary.

[Le Taz Hot]

103. And upthread I explained to Sid Dithers

that in 2016, I will research all candidates (except Republicans and Libertarians as that would be a waste of time -- Hillary also fits into that category), as I always do, and make my decision. I would like to vote Democrat but . . .

[jeff47]

109. General election I'm voting D, even if I have to hold my nose.

Even someone as bad as Hillary is better than a Republican.

In the primary, I'm going to vote for a good candidate, wherever I find them.

[uponit7771]

115. Yeap, one that supported racist ass'd SYG ... signed em into law.. of COURSE that's supported on DU

... by those who "support" gun freedoms (aka winger FUD)

[Le Taz Hot]

119. For the THIRD time,

I said I was "interested." I do deep research on all candidates, from the president to State judges to County Boards of Supervisors before I ever actually cast a vote. I even research the candidates for the Democratic Central Committee.

The reality is the we're 2 years away from me even having to think about presidential candidates. Right now, I'm concentrating on CA-21 which has a good chance of turning from Republican to Democrat.

[uponit7771]

124. Ok, I'm "interested" in anyone who can spout those terms... we all are... the issue isn't that it's.

... now we have no functioning government AND an imperfect president.... on I expected and the other I didn't.

FDR had an 75% PROGRESSIVE congress throughout his term and did things any winger today would be proud of ...

Obama does NOT have a 75% avg terms congress and is loathed by some on the left who I think is mostly FUD...

If Warren was sworn in as president tommorrow how long before everyone see's she's not extra perfect and does the same thing with her!?

[hootinholler]

93. Wait a minute, isn't Montana reliably red?

They elected a progressive Gov?

That kind of puts the turd way message in place then.

[quinnox]

97. Whoa, universal health care and anti-NSA spying? I like the way that sounds

Definitely someone to keep an eye on, but of course its way early yet.

[geek tragedy]

100. Schweitzer 2012 should debate Schweitzer 2014.

Schweitzer 2014:

Brian Schweitzer, the former two-term Democratic governor of Montana, is rarely speechless. Once he gets going on a topic, he’s almost impossible to stop. As he builds up steam, he’ll slap his knee to emphasize his points. He’ll slap your knee to emphasize his points. Good luck getting a word in edgewise for that follow-up question.

But at the moment, Schweitzer is rubbing his chin, looking up at the ceiling, searching – unsuccessfully – for just the right words. The question was simple enough: Is there a single thing President Obama has done that you consider a positive achievement?

Finally, he spoke.

“My mother, God rest her soul, told me ‘Brian, if you can’t think of something nice to say about something change the subject,’” he said.But he couldn’t help himself, slamming Obama’s record on civil liberties (the NSA revelations were “un-effing-believable”), his competency (“They just haven’t been very good at running things”), and above all, Obamacare (“It will collapse on its own weight”).Eventually, he paused to acknowledge Obama’s historic role as the first black president. But by that standard, Obama’s usefulness ended the day he took the oath of office.

Schweitzer 2012:

When President Obama took office, the economy was in free fall, losing more than 800,000 jobs a month. Since then, he's helped create 4.5 million private sector jobs, 29 straight months of job growth.

Stock market has doubled. Energy production is up. Imports from foreign countries are down. The number of rigs drilling for oil in the United States has more than quadrupled. Manufacturing jobs are coming back, not just because we're producing a record amount of natural gas that's lowering electricity prices, but because we have the best-trained, hardest-working labor force in the history of the world.

We are demanding more from our schools, but we're backing up that demand by investing more in teachers, increasing financial aid and doubling funding for Pell Grants. While he was doing all that, President Obama cut our taxes. He cut taxes 18 times for small businesses. He cut taxes by $3,600 for the typical middle-class family. Now that dog does hunt.

Governor Romney said that finding Osama bin Laden was "not worth moving heaven and earth." Tonight, bin Laden isn't on earth, and he sure isn't in heaven. Thanks to the courage of American Special Forces and the bold leadership of our president, Osama bin Laden is at the bottom of the ocean.

All four of my grandparents were immigrants. They homesteaded the Montana prairie with nothing but the clothes on their backs, faith in God, and hope in their hearts that their kids and grandkids would have a better future. They delivered on that hope. And so has President Obama. Now it's our turn to deliver, not just for the president, but for our kids, and our grandkids.

http://news.yahoo.com/brian-schweitzers-speech-full-text-democratic-national-convention-202629764--politics.html

When it suited his interests, he was more than eager to kiss Obama's ass.

[Egnever]

132. so basicaly

he is your average polititian willing to say whatever he thinks will get him elected.

Good finds.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

344. Nicely done. Now, DU: Go do your due diligence and find out what this guy truly stands for...

Do your research on his actual policy stances...

[Xyzse]

105. Don't know him yet.

Willing to do my research.

[uponit7771]

116. ***************HE SUPPORTED STAND YOUR GROUND LAWS!!!*****************

He's dead in the water just from that...

Convince a person of color that SYG laws aren't a roadway into 20th century style lynchings...

[kelliekat44]

123. nuff said!! nt

[freshwest]

322. +1

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

346. Unless he explains to me and a whole bunch of black folk how he could ever support SYG, he lost it

...I wouldn't be supporting him, and I am willing to bet that most black American voters---needed for ANY Democrat to win---will not be voting for him.

Let's just go ahead and say, congratulations to Hillary Rodham Clinton as our presidential nominee right here and now.

[me b zola]

120. I would vote for him n/t

[JVS]

121. Sounds good so far.

[tsuki]

126. I have been watching him. I am on board. nt

[mikekohr]

127. I Respect President Obama and Enthusiastically Endorse Brian Schweitzer in 2016 nt

[fredamae]

128. I'm interested but

A whole hellava Lot of Vetting beneath the surface-several layers down and a few Years back Must be looked at - No more "insta-trust" based upon some "appealing speeches". I've learned that much, at least from the past two election cycles. For me, anyway. Period.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

130. He certainly looks better than IWR-Hillary.

[Drunken Irishman]

137. Schweitzer finally gets it! All you have to do is just WANT single-payer and it'll happen!

Duh! Why didn't Obama, Clinton, Carter, Teddy, JFK and Johnson realize this? Fucking morons.

Schweitzer 2016! I'm ready!

[bvar22]

139. This will be fun!

There are some things I do NOT like about Schweitzer,
but I LOVE that these issues, and a "questioning" of the Business Friendly Centrist (3rd Way Clinton/Obama) Democrats, are being projected into the debate.

Bring It ON!!!


I've always maintained that a charismatic POPULIST Democrat
running on a platform of Economic Fairness for Working Americans (a la Huey Long)
can WIN anywhere.

[FairWinds]

141. Obama should have been primaried . .

by a progressive. He was under no pressure to pay attention to our issues.
I hope a progressive runs in 2016. I will support them.

[uponit7771]

148. This guys a conservative and we're supposed to believe this isn't FUD?!

[Blue_Tires]

172. Oh, do tell

Which mythical leftist Dem would you have enlisted to play spoiler in the '12 primaries?

[tjwash]

142. Right - the guy is pro-fracking, pro-stand-your-ground, and pro-strip-mining

Honestly - some of you guys sound like the paul-bots did in 2008 and 2012.

Just in case you think I am full of shit.

My inlaws live in Montana - I know of this guy VERY well. He's just another corporate/oil-and-gas/NRA-smooching drone. Has even used the "job creators" meme in a few of his speeches.

[uponit7771]

147. +1

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

327. Thank you for this. I clearly need to do my research. It's interesting. Obama was accused of just

making pretty speeches and not being of substance. And here I am being taken in by Schweitzer: he made great speeches and so I'm taken in by him; I fell in love with him. I find it interesting that DU has given Schweitzer a pass, too. They seem to have fallen in love with him without doing research on his policy positions (sound familiar?). Now when they find out that he's not 100% pure liberal, will they turn on him, too as they turned against Obama, or will they give him a pass because he's not Barack Obama? It'll be interesting to see if there is a double standard.

[JoePhilly]

144. Then he isn't smart enough to be President.

He can't think of a single positive thing that the Obama administration has accomplished?

He sounds like Sarah Palin ... not being able to name anything she reads.

What's he plan to do ... Repeal the ACA? Good luck running on that.

And he's going to pull the troops out of Afghanistan?

Hummmm. That will be an neat trick since its going to happen before the 2016 elections.

If he runs as the anti-Obama, he's going to get creamed.

[Bluzmann57]

154. I like this guy a lot

I wanted him to run in '08 and if he runs in '16, he's got my support. Mr. Schweitzer seems like a true man of the people. Drinks coffee in a local diner with the regular folks, attended a farm show here a few years ago and actually bought some farm equipment, and so on.

[LittleBlue]

157. He sounds like the kind of Democrat I can support

I'll support anyone with new ideas who isn't owned by Goldman Sachs.

[Rex]

158. He won't win, that is a stupid platform to run on imo.

People love Obama...that won't work.

[Walk away]

178. It'll work here in the world of DU!

Hate Hillary, bash Obama and promise an agenda that you can never deliver.

[ProSense]

163. Here

Brian Schweitzer Can't Really Think Of Anything Nice To Say About Obama's Record
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024335397

Maybe he'll win. It would be worth it to hear the complaints about how he lied during his campaign.

[MADem]

311. Who knew????

I am shocked that there are this many people who think this pro death penalty, pro SYG, pro NRA, pro Keystone guy is all that....


Recommendations
156 members have recommended this thread (displayed in chronological order):
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Do people do any research before they endorse?

[DissidentVoice]

165. This is a Democrat I can cautiously endorse

I say "cautiously" because the last two have said one thing during their campaigns and went into "Republican-lite/DLC" once they were in office.

Bill Clinton moreso than Obama.

[wyldwolf]

166. "Progressives" would hate him

[Phlem]

209. because.......

-p

[wyldwolf]

233. see post #13

... and aside from all that, he called Hugo Chavez a thug in 2008. That won't play well.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

167. Mission accomplished, MSNBC!

You dubbed a guy "Anti-Obama" because he's got some issues with him and have the usual groups picking sides.

Hilarious. HILL-arious.

[Historic NY]

168. Certainly isn't a uniter.....

his head is stuck too far up in the big sky.

[geek tragedy]

170. Schweitzer" Medicaid one of the least effective programs in our country's history.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/19/obama-ally-throws-cold-wa_n_239869.html#

[Tarheel_Dem]

171. Great tactic. Alienate the African American vote for who? We are very protective of our president.

and Schweitzer can't win without us. It'll be interesting to see how this strategy plays out. I'm sure he has the high minded, over educated liberal white vote all wrapped up, but that's not enough to win.

[Blue_Tires]

176. +1...That one line pretty much made me tune out whatever else he was saying...

He has some interesting stances, but he is comically overplaying his "distance myself from Obama" hand...Criticism is one thing; the whole "he-never-did-anything-in-office-other-than-have-dark-pigment" attitude is just insulting everyone's intelligence (not to mention it can easily be read as a veiled affirmative-action insult)

My money is on Schweitzer trying to uniquely position himself as some kind of renegade 'Rand Paul-lite' for the Democratic party, cobbling together the same weird, incompatible hodgepodge of base supporters while trying to leech the rest off the Libertarian party's scrap heap...

Good luck with THAT shit...

[Tarheel_Dem]

187. He's already lost me, and by the time urban radio finds out how he plans to win, he'll be toast.

You can't alienate the party's most loyal demographic and expect to win. Even if he manages to eke out a primary win, and it's highly doubtful, he'll be buried in a general election when black folks don't show up to support him. The most effective tool for GOTV in my community is urban radio, and if they're not excited about his anti Obama candidacy, it'll quickly translate into a colossal loss for Schweitzer.

[Number23]

210. You know you're wasting your breath. I've seen about five black posters in this thread and we're

all saying this guy is full of shit and insulting as hell. Only makes GD love him that much more.

I'm sure he has the high minded, over educated liberal white vote all wrapped up

I don't see very much "high mindedness" and see even less "education" here. Threads like this make me fall on my knees and give thanks that these folks do not represent Democrats. Kicking and recing a thread from a guy that can't say anything nice about a president with an 80% approval rating from his own party. This level of stupidity should be painful.

[msanthrope]

270. HRC will eat this dude for lunch. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

370. The good news is that DU recs are meaningless above ground. Remember Dennis Kucinich? You don't?

Neither do the American people.

[Cha]

390. Hey! I'm very

high minded.

Schweitzer is offensive and a buffoon.

This is from MSNBC’s Benjy Sarlin . via Ed Gilgore @ PoliticalAnimal..

"Eventually, he paused to acknowledge Obama’s historic role as the first black president. But by that standard, Obama’s usefulness ended the day he took the oath of office."

Precisely.. by that stupid standard.

From that same piece from Ed Gilgore..

"Unless this was some sort of screwed-up revival of Teddy Kennedy’s famously disastrous Roger Mudd interview in 1980, Schweitzer’s sure taking an unorthodox route to a Democratic presidential candidacy. Yes, his complaints about Obama’s record are shared by quite a few progressive folk. But generally trashing Obama—or for that matter, trashing HRC—is not the way to build a base for a presidential campaign. According to the latest Gallup numbers, Obama’s job approval rating among self-identified liberal Democrats stands at 84%. That is rather high. Among African-Americans, who play a huge role in many Democratic presidential primaries, it’s at 86% (it’s only 58% among Hispanics, but that includes a decent number of Republicans)."

Political Animal

[Tarheel_Dem]

396. If I were giving advice to B.S., I would suggest that he quickly abandon that strategy. The road to

the WH, for ANY democrat runs through the AA community, and he lost me as soon as I read this crap, and that view will be shared by most. I am now convinced that he's not a serious candidate, or he would never have gone there. He is probably the best thing that could happen for Hillary Rodham Clinton since BridgeGate, she'll mop the floor with him.

I'll bet half the people who jumped on the B.S. bandwagon with recs & kudos had no idea about some of his other positions. All they knew was that he was trashing the black dude in the White House, and that was good enough. I hope that anyone who rec'd that thread will come back and apologize to Pres. Obama if he chooses to approve the Keystone XL pipeline. Otherwise, they're a bunch of internet fakes and hypocrites.

[VanillaRhapsody]

179. Good thing Obama isn't running next time...

Perhaps he hasn't heard?

[Beacool]

180. Then there's this..........

Why Brian Schweitzer Has Already Lost

Positioning yourself against President Obama is a good way to alienate the most important constituency in the Democratic Party.

Over at MSNBC, Benjy Sarlin has a profile of former Montana governor Brian Schweitzer that’s worth a read. Schweitzer has clear presidential ambitions, and he’s not just positioning himself as an alternative to Hillary Clinton, but he wants to run as a liberal repudiation of Obama.

Schweitzer is best described as a left-libertarian or “liberaltarian”; he’s skeptical of the NSA, pro-single payer and pro-marriage equality, but he opposes strict gun control and denounces the Affordable Care Act as “corporatist,” borrowing an attack that’s popular on the Right. Indeed, he seems designed to bridge the oft-discussed “wine track”/“beer track” divide in the Democratic Party, with positions that appeal to educated elites and working-class whites.

But the Democratic divide has as much to do with race as it does with class, and that’s where Schweitzer runs into problems. I think the “wine track”/“beer track” divide in the Democratic Party is overstated, but insofar that it exists, it turns on the allegiance of working-class African Americans. Sizable support from black voters is key to winning a Democratic presidential primary, and if there’s a long-standing weakness to left or left-leading candidates, it’s that they’ve never had that appeal.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/15/clintons-v-christie-equals-in-thuggery.html#url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/15/why-brian-schweitzer-has-already-lost-2016.html

[Number23]

211. "Why Brian Schweitzer Has Already Lost"

But the Democratic divide has as much to do with race as it does with class, and that’s where Schweitzer runs into problems. I think the “wine track”/“beer track” divide in the Democratic Party is overstated, but insofar that it exists, it turns on the allegiance of working-class African Americans. Sizable support from black voters is key to winning a Democratic presidential primary, and if there’s a long-standing weakness to left or left-leading candidates, it’s that they’ve never had that appeal.

Thanks for posting that.

[Beacool]

287. You're welcome.

He doesn't seem to have respect for the president. Even Republicans treaded carefully in 2008. They didn't want to be too harsh on Bush and risk angering other Republicans. I don't know why Schweitzer thinks that badmouthing Obama would be a winning strategy.

[liberal_at_heart]

246. The ACA is corporatist.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

307. Thank you, Bea. I'm not sure what we're saying is so controversial.

[Beacool]

312. I don't know what Schweitzer was thinking.

That kind of bluster may play well in Montana, but it sure wouldn't play well around my neck of the woods (NY/NJ metro area). He basically said that Obama's only accomplishment was being elected as an AA. He should try saying that around here and see what happens to him. LOL!!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

316. He just buried himself. He's no better than the wingnuts who utter that racist bullshit!

[Beacool]

328. I don't know much about the guy, but I read that he tends to talk too much.

Maybe he got carried away with the sound of his own voice and went over the line. I wonder if he now regrets what he said.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

329. I know Steve Bullock, the current governor. He went to law school with a dear friend of mine.

A good guy. Very genuine. We were all shocked that he got elected because he's far left of Schweitzer.

[Beacool]

333. Well, then Montana got lucky.

[colsohlibgal]

186. Come On Down Brian!

I like about everything I've heard him say lately. I'll cheer him, Bernie Sanders, whoever runs as anti neo democrat. We've had Bill Clinton, Obama, and on to Hillary Clinton. All talk a good game but are in bed with Wall Street. Also -I have a hard time forgiving Hillary on her yea vote for the ill advised Iraq war, aka the Halliburton enrichment war. I'd love to hear her explain why she did so. I do know it cost her the 2008 nomination.

In the end it will be hard to beat the Clinton juggernaut, but we can try to push her as left as we can.

Schweitzer's comment about how can someone vote on Friday against someone who gave her/him money on Tuesday brilliantly sums up why we need public funding of elections.

[BainsBane]

188. A- Rating from the NRA

Only reason it's not a full A is because he's a Democrat.

Ironic that people who insist Hillary Clinton is too right-wing are falling all over themselves for a red-state, pro-NRA Democrat.

I don't support anyone in bed with the devil and will not vote for a pro-gun Democrat unless there is no other choice.

[pintobean]

189. "in bed with the devil"

[blkmusclmachine]

190. We do need some REAL "Change." But not sure an Insider can do it. And I know BHO won't deliver, that

much is obvious.

[xxqqqzme]

191. Is he still a big coal cheerleader?

He promoted coal when he was governor.

[Warren DeMontague]

192. If Schweitzer is enthusiastically in favor of ending the federal war on Medical Marijuana, that will

go a long way toward earning my support.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

193. Watch the media call him a nut.

[merrily]

216. The media sure implied that strongly as to Howard Dean.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

223. They PROMOTED Palin as a serious candidate LONG after America considered her to be a nut.

[merrily]

226. Funny you should mention that.

The very first person I saw implying that Dean's infamous "whoop" was the product of insanity was Katie Couric, then on the Today Show, just before she aired the clip of the "whoop" he had given out the night before. She was also the media personality who, IMO, put the biggest dent in Palin's credibility.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

255. Here's the thing, Republicans KNEW Couric was one of their own....

But Palin was too stupid to handle a SOFTBALL.

[merrily]

258. I don't think Couric was a Republican in 2004

Of course, I could be mistaken, but I don't think she was.

Whether she is or not, Kerry was the 2004 primary candidate of the DLC (once Lieberman dropped out--though Lieberman never had a chance anyway) and therefore of the Democratic establishment at the time; and I believe that the media treated Dean as it during the primaries did because of that.

Without knowing that--or very much about politics at all--at the time, I was very happy to vote for Kerry in that primary and even happier to vote for him in the general. Still, even though Kerry was "my" candidate and I was naive, I noted, was shocked by, what the media did to Dean.

But you are absolutely correct that Palin impaled herself during the Couric interview on relatively easy questions, like which newpapers do you read.

[pa28]

194. I'll have to look Schweitzer.

He seems to piss off all the right people.

[Enthusiast]

195. How does he feel about Net Neutrality?

[djean111]

202. Why get upset? After all, no matter what you think about this guy, or any other person

who snags the nomination - as I understand it, you HAVE to vote for the candidate with a "D" after the name, right?
Doesn't matter who it is, right? Or what they say when campaigning. Right?
They can literally say anything and not be held to it. All that counts is winning.
If he can appeal to NRA folks, for instance - that's just vote-getting. As long as it is "D" votes.
Right?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

347. Nope. Black folk will just stay home.

[djean111]

363. Are you saying that unless a candidate praises Obama - swears fealty, as it were -

the black people who voted for him will not come out and vote again?
Wow. So we are locked into a perpetual Obama praise machine. Wow. I am supposed to be locked into the Clinton praise machine, already. Except when she was running against Obama, of course.

If that is what you seriously mean, than today's politics are completely disassociated with American citizens, and really not worth my time, money, or effort.
Let's just elect a president on American Idol and get it over with. Maybe charge $10 a vote and get that money rules the world thing out in the open, too.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

371. No! And stop putting fucking words in my mouth. It works the same way with any candidate

who's successor is a president who is a member of the same party. Gore didn't go out there bashing Bill Clinton. McCain didn't go out there bashing Bush II. And Hillary Clinton wouldn't go out there bashing President Obama. That is not a way to unify the Democratic Party. It DIVIDES the party. It is counterproductive, and not a way to win an election. Don't be condescending towards me or my people. That is utterly ridiculous and you know it!

[djean111]

378. You are the one who used the term "black folks".

Personally, I have not ever cared about Obama's race, or even thought it interesting - I don't like some of his policies.
And somehow, not liking his policies is now construed as racist.
It sort of seems racist, to me, to say "black folks won't vote", as a matter of fact.

The party is already divided into Left and Third Way. The Democratic Party seems to be sliding waaaay to the Right, and it is not going to take all the Democrats with it. THAT'S the divisive thing. The policies.
If Hillary is running as a Third Wayer, I cannot support her, no matter what she says or does not say about Obama - same with any other candidate.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

379. "Black folks". It's a term of endearment. I'm very proud of what my people have done for this countr

and continue to do. And I'm very proud of President Obama. No matter what bullshit is thrown his way.

The rest of your post? Didn't even get through one sentence.

[SidDithers]

221. Bookmarking this thread to link to during primary season...nt

Sid

[Octafish]

225. Why?

Will it effect your vote?

[Puglover]

285. What vote?

[BlueMTexpat]

231. As a Montanan by birth, with lots of family, friends and longtime connections in state,

as well as being a lifelong Dem, I'd say that Schweitzer is blowing smoke. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

He should have run for the Senate seat being vacated by Baucus. Yes, there were issues - some pointed out by Politico in a July issue ( http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/brian-schweitzer-montana-democrats-93990.html) and others concerning campaign finances and other controversial items - that would have provided lots of fodder for Koch-supported GOP slurs, but he could still likely have pulled it off for that office.

But he shot himself in the foot then by spurning that possibility and has not made any serious efforts to rebuild burnt bridges. Insofar as a realistic national run is concerned, it's a real pipe dream.

But keep on smoking if it makes you happy.

[liberal_at_heart]

234. Is he for increasing spending on SS, food stamps, education,

libraries, and other public programs? Does he support unions? Is he for a living wage? I would have to learn a lot more about him before I could vote for him.

[geek tragedy]

247. He hates Medicaid. That's a disqualifier right there. nt

[grasswire]

282. stop embarassing yourself. nt

[JI7]

240. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAH

a great example of how disconnected people are from reality . and how as i assume most aren't involved in actual activism for the Dem party .

minorities are not going to vote for a candidate seen as anti Obama .

[Zorra]

257. I'd campaign for him 24/7 if he's clearly pro womens'/lgbt rights, anti-corporatist/anti neoliberal

and Elizabeth Warren doesn't run.

We simply cannot afford any more business worshiping republicans/neoliberals in the WH.

[Agony]

268. Clearly Clueless about Climate Change

Schweizer is the last thing we need...

[AlbertCat]

272. I agree...

All these posts..... "He's got my vote!"

Jesus! It's friggin' January and he's already got people's votes because of one or two issues.

Pitiful.

[Agony]

275. he was bragging on Joe Scabbrain about having the first Fracking Bakken well in Montana

on what planet is "Drill Baby Drill" a desirable Democratic Platform plank? I mean What The Frack?!

they flare 30% of the nat gas in the Bakken because is gets in the way of them getting the oil out!

Cheers anyway,
Agony

[grasswire]

283. Have you read the man's bio?

Geez.

[Agony]

289. Why do I have to read anything

when i can listen to the "Drill Baby Drill" words right out of his mouth? On Joe Scarborough the moran show no less.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dem-thinks-he-can-win-the-anti-obama

Geez maybe you could recite his "bio" or something.

I am not willing to concede that full speed ahead fossil fuel is remotely an acceptable policy position.

[grasswire]

324. don't confuse you with the facts, eh?

Sheesh.

[AlbertCat]

319. Have you read the man's bio?

Reading his friggin' bio is NOT gonna make me decide who to vote for 11 months away from the damn election!

[Peregrine Took]

276. He's got our vote and we are veteran Deaniac's so we are ready to organize Chicago.

Love what we are hearing.

[grasswire]

284. my dream ticket is Dean and Schweizer.

That would be some real change.

[BumRushDaShow]

281. Dog-whistlin' Democrat.

Tweet tweet and the thread gets 150 recs.

[Fumesucker]

286. What a depressing thread

Went into it with a reasonably open mind as I'd never paid any attention to this guy before.

After reading what he supports and doesn't it's quite clear he's a really mixed bag and probably lying about half his agenda.

Just like the rest of them.

Yawn.

[Beacool]

290. He's a Left leaning Libertarian.

He's not strictly a liberal.

[Fumesucker]

292. He's a politician

Saying what he thinks will get him elected.

Just like the rest of them unfortunately.

Not going to get excited about politicians words any more, they will do what they will do when they get elected and it often has little relevance to their campaign rhetoric.

[Beacool]

293. Yes, but if he considers himself to be the anti-Obama candidate,

then as a Democrat he should realize that it's a losing strategy in a primary. Obama is not Bush.

[Fumesucker]

296. I don't think Hillary has anything to fear from this guy

One broadside from the mighty cannon of the USS Inevitable and this dude will be taking on water faster than the Titanic.

[Beacool]

310. Well, anything can happen and Hillary hasn't even said that she's running.

I just can't imagine someone trying to run as the anti-president, when that president is of his own party. I would think that fellow members of the party would find it offensive. Notice how carefully the Republicans tread in 2008. They didn't declare themselves the anti-Bush. It would be a death wish in the primaries, although it may have played well in the general election.

[KoKo]

383. We Dems are scouring the bins...you think? I think we put out every Candidate

and let them go AT EACH OTHER!

Surely there are enough ISSUES to FIGHT OVER......given what we've all been through as Dems for Decades now.

[solarhydrocan]

323. Just for the record: I don't agree with every position he has taken.

I'm not in love with this guy.
Is he the best potential choice with a chance today? Yes, IMHO.

The important thing now is to provide alternatives, and bring some
new ideas to the table. Enough with the Clintons and the Bushes.

If someone else better comes along with the same or better chance of winning-
I'll drop this guy like a used kleenex. These are potential employees, not
men or women to be worshiped or "loved".

So for now, RUN BRIAN RUN!

[grasswire]

325. exactly

It sure didn't take long for the masses here to be swayed against him through innuendo and disinformation.

"He hates medicaid." No, he simply prefers single payer to anything else.

There are several outright propagandists for corporatism working here this evening.

[ProSense]

335. "I'm not in love with this guy. "

I think we should add support for the death penalty, fracking, Keystone and the NRA to the Democratic platform, make it more progress.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024335397

"Is he the best potential choice with a chance today? Yes, IMHO."

[Beacool]

348. Go to the RW sites, they can't wait for him to run.

[Agnosticsherbet]

340. He is positioning hmself well to the left of Hillary Clinton.

But I will have to know more about him than his promises.

[INdemo]

355. He is right about Obama being a corporatist

We forgot very quickly how the healthcare law was written by the health insurance industry.

[silvershadow]

356. If I can't have Bernie, and I can't have Warren, I guess he will do. I caught wind on another

thread that he might be pro-fracking, though…I will have to flesh that out a little, because that ain't cool. (or healthy)

[bobduca]

360. DLC defense networks activated

talking points and longknives have been distributed.

[djean111]

364. Goodness gracious, you folks who are upset about some of this guy's views -

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!

Hey, you can't have all the ponies and unicorns you want!

And all the other trash slung at people who are upset with Obama's policies.

I am also getting the feeling that advocating for single-payer health care is seen by some Dems as just another hating on Obama and the ACA, and they want the ACA preserved so as to Preserve Obama's "legacy". Just a feeling I am getting.

I don't think Ms. Clinton's views on keystone and other environmental issues are that much different than those of the governor of Montana. Also read that if the governor had stepped down in order to run for the Senate, he may have been replaced by a republican. Izzat true?

[fadedrose]

394. He's got one thing in his favor....

he's not Hillary Clinton.

[Progressive dog]

395. Libertarian climate change denier, in line with Republicans on tax cuts.

This guy can't find enough dirty stuff to burn. He wants to use coal to make oil. Seriously.