Churches Protest & Harass Abortion Clinic Patients? Reverse the Tables at Their Churches.

[David Zephyr]

Our Supreme Court -- with six out of nine Justices being Catholics-- is now voicing "concerns" about permitting a woman a modicum of dignity and breathing space as she approaches a family planning clinic...because (can you actually believe this shit?!) neurotic religious fanatics are being deprived their "rights"?

Rights? Right to harass? To intimidate a patient? Right to bully a woman?

Is this the United States of America or the Taliban States of America?

Believe me, if people started standing outside houses of "worship" with signs showing the millions of bloody victims from religious genocide all over the world, screaming at "parishioners" as they walked to their Sunday "service", the Supreme Court and the male patriarchy that runs this country would be up in arms over it. In one second.

Leftists make wisecracks about Fox's phony "war on Christmas" (and it is a joke), but let me tell you something, if people began showing up at churches with the hateful, vicious screaming and ugly signs and intimating "protesting" just as these religious nut-jobs do at abortion clinics, what do you think would happen? You already know the answer. Those protesters would be jailed in a heartbeat.

Making war against women, especially those who have to deal with their own reproductive issues that are only their business, is slowly, but steadily becoming acceptable in this country.

To men, like myself, it is our duty to stand up, speak out and to stand with women more than ever because their most fundamental rights are being stripped away from them state by state, statue by statute and all systematically.

[bettyellen]

1. I would love to see more men involved in clinic defense.

[David Zephyr]

3. bettyellen, I do to do more myself.

Yes, we need men like me to snap out of the lethargy that is permitting the systematic, heavily financed and calculated judicial assault against women and their rights. They are getting away with this. The news out of the Supreme Court is very troubling.

[bettyellen]

5. I did quite a bit when I was young, and the protesters were vicious to us. We were all women, and

they physically shoved and pushed us called us whores and worse. (before they're were barriers). We took it so the girls seeking help did not have to be abused. Bizarrely, although this was in an inner city ghetto, the protestors were ALL old white retired people bussed in from a state over by an anti reproductive rights group. (this group ended up connected to that sniper who killed the doctor, they housed him for a while here) You wouldn't think they could be that bad. I don't think they would dare pull some of that if there were any men around. I was sad to say their were very few men helping back then. I hope this has changed.

[warrant46]

7. They haven't changed they are still vicious except now

Thanks to the Republican Party and the Koch brothers they have their ugly fists on the Judicial system and the police in more than 1/2 of amerika

[David Zephyr]

9. We need to start protesting at their churches.

Then just watch how "a protective zone" will be created for worshippers.

Sauce for the goose.

[bettyellen]

11. The weird thing is, they had a very secretive local presence. They ran a home for those housing some

women they had talked into keeping their kids, housing them until the birth, dumping them when they needed it most. And a few apartments in NY and NJ where planners lived and hosted others active in the movement (helping them with jobs and housing). They had connections to more rural/ suburban older conservative congregations that they would provide transportation and accommodations to get them to protest. We were kind of shocked this was quietly going on and only found out about it later when Kopp was arrested. He had been delivering pizza here in NJ while a fugitive. These people are vicious.

[loudsue]

28. I'm totally ready to start protesting churches....particularly southern baptist republican ones.

Anybody that doesn't understand what is going on....just google Southern Baptist Convention....read about Southern baptists. They are pushing the right wing every Sunday and Wednesday in church. AND they're tax exempt.

Hundreds of Billions. That's what they take in every year collectively. And a great deal of it goes for political causes dressed up as church activities. Preventing gay marriage, picketing abortion clinics....they are another arm of the republican party.

On edit: Part of their doctrine is that women are subservient to men. No questions asked.

[Go Vols]

64. +1

[jwirr]

66. This would be targeting the ones who are pushing the issue of women's rights - churches - but

we need to make sure we get the right churches. Not all churches are involved in protesting abortion. Mine is not at all involved. Of course if you were to start protesting at my church many of us might very well come on outside and join you.

[eggplant]

69. Well...

...the crazed protesters are harassing the women who are just there for a pap smear, too.

So maybe we don't have to be that careful either.

[David Zephyr]

75. As we said in the 1960's: Right On, loudsue!

Right on!

[David Zephyr]

8. Honored to know you.

I'm not surprised to hear there were "very few men helping".

Rachel Maddow I the only voice on television that even "goes there" anymore on this subject, and yet she helped bring down the Governor of Virginia and end that vile "procedure" against women.

Where are the rest of the men on MSNBC?

The Supreme Court is having trouble with protecting women at clinics now?

[HERVEPA]

26. Right. I've escorted at Planned Parenthood in Phila. for 20 year.

Ratio of women to men escorts is about 5 or 6 to 1.

[bettyellen]

38. Thank you for helping all those women. Good on you!

[David Zephyr]

76. Thank you, HERVEPA for all of those years of helping women.

Thank you for the ratio provided. It sadly underscores my point about my male gender.

How tragic that women, in such vulnerable times in their lives, even require "escorts" to go to a clinic. That sums up this entire injustice and systematic oppression of girls and women.

And, again, I thank you for each time you escorted a girl or woman all those years.

YOU MADE A DIFFERNCE. AND YOU ARE A HERO TO ME.

[Katashi_itto]

51. I did it several times back when I lived in Kansas City

Amazing how fast these anti-choice cretins will shrink away when confronted and start screaming about their "rights"

[bettyellen]

60. I got the feeling they'd have less courage if there were more men with us.

I doubt they'd dare it. And I tell you it's very strange being abused by a bunch of retirees. While I had no doubt I could have kicked their asses, that wasn't on the table. They were a rabid bunch. Really odd experience.

[Katashi_itto]

63. Yeah they were a weird bunch spitting shrieking like the world was going to end

[David Zephyr]

77. In KC? You are courageous and are to be honored.

[Katashi_itto]

84. Well, they were...how should I put it?...slightly on the rabid side.

[spanone]

2. this country has lost it's collective mind

[kag]

44. Or perhaps just closed it. n/t

[blkmusclmachine]

4. k+r

[Maraya1969]

6. They wouldn't be jailed if they stay the appropriate way from the church. Ask the Phelps family.

I would love to see this start happening. Let them feel how uncomfortable and scary and demeaning it is to walk by a scene like this.

[Demeter]

10. That's not a bad idea--picketing churches

[merrily]

12. I agree wholeheartedly, as long as only the offending churches

are targeted.

I also think we'd better be prepared for being maced and whatever. I recommend having goggles and face coverings handy, for starters. There's lots of defensive info for peaceful protestors on the internet.

[niyad]

14. are you referring to individual churches, or particular faiths? as far as I am concerned, unless

a particular faith supports a woman's right to choose, they are all fair game.

[merrily]

16. I know of a couple of pro gay, pro choice churches in my state.

Those were the specific ones I had in mind when I posted. Some of my gay friends attend and it is a real comfort to them to be able to do so without hearing hate from the pulpit. I would so hate to see places like that hurt.

I have not inquired specifically, but I believe those churches are simply non-denominational. Then again, so are some of the most hate-filled mega churches that I believe should be picketed.

Another example is that some orthodox Jewish temples would be much like some of the fundamentalist Christian churches when it comes to choice and GLBT issues, but many or all Reconstructionist Jewish temples would be pro-choice and not homophobic.

Once you leave the realm of Catholicism, all of which is guided by one person who is thought to be infallible on matters of church doctrine, things are less clear cut.

[47of74]

18. Do the homework.

It's kind of counter productive to assume that any building with a spire and/or a cross houses a bunch of anti choice zealots. Do the homework first, picket second. Otherwise you'll wind up wasting your energy picketing people who agree with your position and would otherwise help you.

[niyad]

23. what part of "unless they support a woman's right to choose" did you miss?

[Brigid]

22. This week, I will begin attending a new church.

Well, not really new -- I attended when I lived here before. Because I know this church, I know you would only waste your time and alienate the members by picketing it -- not to mention baffle them. It's a United Methodist Church, and they are not your enemies. I gotta disagree with you this time, niyad.

[niyad]

24. see post 23

[JDPriestly]

45. The United Methodist Church does not categorically oppose abortion.

Neither do many other religions. It is really not a good idea to pick any church at random and begin a protest about abortion. The anti-abortion religions make a lot of noise, but they are not necessarily the majority of religions. A lot of "Catholics" use birth control and don't agree with the Catholic Church's stance on reproductive issues.

Here is a quick review of the various established churches' stances on abortion.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/01/16/religious-groups-official-positions-on-abortion/

Many of the well established denominations support reproductive choice.

Here are a couple of examples.

We recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures by certified medical providers. We support parental, guardian, or other responsible adult notification and consent before abortions can be performed on girls who have not yet reached the age of legal adulthood. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection or eugenics (see Resolution 3184).

We oppose the use of late-term abortion known as dilation and extraction (partial-birth abortion) and call for the end of this practice except when the physical life of the mother is in danger and no other medical procedure is available, or in the case of severe fetal anomalies incompatible with life. This procedure shall be performed only by certified medical providers. Before providing their services, abortion providers should be required to offer women the option of anesthesia.

More.

http://www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=lwL4KnN1LtH&b=5066287&content_id={8A1C7083-AD34-47B6-B3FA-E36418DE5790}&notoc=1

Unitarians

WHEREAS, the issue of abortion is morally complex, abortion must remain a legal option; and

WHEREAS, attempts are now being made to restrict access to birth control and abortion by overriding individual decisions of conscience, and attacks in legislatures, courts, and the streets often result in depriving poor women of their right to medical care; and such legislation is an infringement of the principle of separation of church and state in that it tries to enact private morality into public law; and

WHEREAS, there is a movement to re-criminalize abortion both for women and their health-care providers which could bring back dangerous alternatives to clinically safe abortions;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: That the 1987 General Assembly of the Unitarian Universalist Association reaffirms its historic position, supporting the right to choose contraception and abortion as legitimate aspects of the right to privacy; and

More

http://www.uua.org/statements/statements/14499.shtml

[Brigid]

48. Which is why a protest outside this or any other UMC . . .

Is just useless. In fact, this whole idea just seems nonsensical to me.

[David Zephyr]

79. Indeed.

Only the offending churches and denominations.

Using tax exempt funds and properties to launch assaults on clinics that serve girls and women is simply evil and should not be tolerated.

Men, are you listening? Let's man up and help our sisters.

[David Zephyr]

78. Of course, I agree.

Sauce for the goose.

[niyad]

13. did you catch the part where scalia whined that he objected to the woman-hating, anti-choice,

pro-forced birthers being called protestors??

thank you for standing up and speaking out for women's most fundamental right of autonomy.

[47of74]

17. Scalia represents all I don't miss about the Catholic Church

The pig headed arrogance, the hateful hypocrisy, worshipping Jesus as a God because that's a fuck of a lot easier than following his teachings.

[marew]

40. From a recovering former Catholic!

Hypocrisy is definitely the name of the game! Disillusioned doesn't even begin to explain my feelings.

My mother believed EVERYTHING verbatim the church said. If they'd told her to kill her oldest child, I'd be dead...

Went to an all girls Catholic HS. The monsignor at the local church was a monster- everyone was terrified by him, his outbursts, his temper. He was a big cheese in the diocese even though he had a horrendous reputation. One day he called the entire student body into the church and began screaming at our very beloved principal over nonsense. His purpose was to humiliate her but she was a saint to us. She never defended herself- simply looked at the ground. Perhaps he was jealous she was so loved and respected. The only person he humiliated was himself. That happened 50 years ago and it was so shocking I remember it like it was yesterday.

[David Zephyr]

21. Thanks, niyad.

Yes, I did catch that. The fact that the SCOTUS is toying with this at all is mind-numbing and the fact that "liberals" are asleep at the wheel or don't care pisses me off.

I like you.

[niyad]

25. and thank you. it isn't surprising that scotus is doing this, with six catholics amoung them.

have been fighting this battle my whole life, which wasn't something I figured would be necessary, back when I was a bit less cynical than I now am. but, will never give up, either. the rcc's stance on women was one of the primary reasons I got ex-commed on my way out.

[merrily]

81. Again and again, that turd in a black robe and vanity hat speaks out on matters likely to

come before the SCOTUS. Equal marriage, 4th amendment, whatever.

He should have been impeached the very first time he did it. Or the next time. Or this time.

[theHandpuppet]

15. Thank you for posting

I was getting a bit discouraged and skeptical about the depth of support here for reproductive choice.

[David Zephyr]

82. My first OP in eons. But it's the subject that concerns me the most now.

State by state elimination of family planning clinics, abortion providers, contraception coverage by insurance companies, forced penetration with ultrasound equipment legislation, murder of abortion doctors and on and on.

There is a real, yes, conspiracy that is funded by tax-exempt religious corporations, marketed (evangelized) by the religious corporation followers, empowered by politicians in state and federal powers of position in legislatures, congress, and in the judicial branch.

And they are winning. Really winning.

Anyone that suggests that this is a "back-burner" issue for progressives and the Democratic Party needs to be schooled in just how insidious and successful this systematic oppression of girls and women is and how their rights are evaporating away while the Left is too silent.

Time for action.

[4_TN_TITANS]

19. Not just showing up, but

Physically blocking the entrances while screaming.

[David Zephyr]

86. It's what they do to poor women.

And it's permitted and sanctioned and encouraged.

They'd go bananas if it was done while they were going to church.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. Six of nine are catholic...

No, the deck isn't stacked at all fuck the pope.

[kestrel91316]

27. We shouldn't remain outside the churches to protest.

We should disrupt services INSIDE. Give them a REAL taste of their own medicine. Because they are disrupting women's personal lives and health.

[Brigid]

49. And any sympathy any of them may have had for you,

And any sympathy anybody who hears of it may have had, is lost. Bad idea.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. ACT UP did that in NY and in LA, it had great impact and was worth the whining

of the people who felt their 'sanctuary' was more important than the sick and the dying, ie Roger Mahoney, who was interrupted mid rite.
Silence= Death
I myself remained outside dressed as one of the Three Wise Men, accompanied by an angel, brining to Mahoney the gifts of condoms, birth control pills and a home health kit for women, speculum and whatnot. It was Christmas Mahoney refused the gifts.
Those who 'lost sympathy' never had any to begin with.

[Brigid]

58. I am a native Midwesterner.

As backward as this region can be in some ways, one thing that characterizes us is, we don't like people, whoever or whatever they may be, who get in our face. That's why I very much doubt that Chris Chrstie would do well here. Obnoxious behavior is obnoxious behavior, whatever the cause may be. I think that is not such a bad perspective to have.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. So you claim when a religion says women are murderers and gay people are from hell

that's not 'in your face' so the Midwest quietly accepts that, year in and year out? That's not obnoxious, calling others names, from 'God hates fags' to 'a destructive attack on God' the religious can be more than obnoxious and often show up at LGBT events with hate placards. I would think that the Midwest, if so against 'in your face obnoxious' would have stood up to Fred Phelps of Kansas some time ago.

[Brigid]

68. I'm saying . . .

That making fools of yourselves is useless. It's going to land Phelps and his gang of idiots in jail one of these days. Why follow him?

[niyad]

108. phelps and co have never gone to jail in all these years. what makes you think it is ever likely

to happen? police and sheriffs and da's are gutless when it comes to these hate-mongers.

[David Zephyr]

89. You have this perfectly in the correct context and perspective.

[David Zephyr]

88. Yes. ACT UP didn't "behave" and it forced the issue.

Direct action always forces political and then electoral action.

ACT UP made a big difference. Those activists saved lives.

Men need to man up and stand with women now.

[eepatt]

67. patterson poo- flinging princple

I do not disagree that it would be fair and certainly justifiable. However, I taught my kids when they were growing up the P cubed principle:
When you are really angry
And wanna fling poo,
Get more on them
Than you do on you.

How do you think mainstream media would react to disruption of church services? We would be made to look even worse than those fanatic anti-abortion zealots. I do not know if there are a lot of undecided people on this issue, but I would rather the pseudo religeous anti-abortion protestors looked like the fanatic jerks and not us.

[David Zephyr]

87. Freedom of speech.

I won't argue with you.

[WCLinolVir]

29. What a great idea.

We should have a list of who they are state by state.

[David Zephyr]

90. They sure love to dish it out, but can't take it when push back comes.

Time to push back.

[Maineman]

30. amen brother!

Let's start protesting religious interference in politics and education and science not to mention the hypocrisy on numerous issues.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. Anti-abortion groups are seriously disturbed people.

I had to look at them in court as part of a civil lawsuit years ago. Planned Parenthood of South Texas etal. v. Operation Rescue, etal.

Horrible, sick, creepy people. I felt like I got PTSD just from being in the same courtroom with them. They discussed the murder of Dr. David Gunn in Florida and clinic volunteers. The jury just about slid out of their chairs in shock.

This was before the murder of Dr. Barnett Slepian.

[David Zephyr]

91. Yes, and imagine the indignation and fear that girls and women are facing everyday in America.

Too much silence for too long on this issue.

[Egnever]

32. I like that idea

[dgibby]

33. Welcome to the Talibornagain States of America

SCOTUS is a sick joke, but I'm not laughing.

[raven mad]

34. This post is important.

I understand that by writing back, it helps keep the thread alive (see, newbie here....).

My poor stepdaughter, nearly 7 years ago, had no money and was pregnant. She had no intention of aborting my (now) incredible grandson, but did not want the kind of garbage counseling she'd have to endure to get free prenatal care, or indeed, even a free pregnancy test, at the local nonprofits - except for Planned Parenthood. I drove her there. The gauntlet we had to run just to get in the door of the building that houses this wonderful service was absolutely disgusting.

I actually threatened one man with some quite nasty retribution if he laid another finger on my stepdaughter, and would have followed through - with steel-toed boots on, it would've been quite painful for him.

Don't target folks like the Friends or the Unitarians. Target the churches of those folks who stand in the intersections, on the sidewalks, and in front of the clinics, preventing those women seeking care from getting same.

BTW, we got in the door and the folks at PP apologized profoundly, even though it was not in any way their fault. My lovely daughter got excellent prenatal care, had an easy midwife attended birth, and I got the most wonderful grandson in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD!! William! You amaze me!

[JDPriestly]

42. The anti-abortion crowd is ignorant about what Planned Parenthood really does.

[David Zephyr]

93. The Supreme Court apparently thinks it's no big deal from their comments.

Thanks for your post and story.

[Le Taz Hot]

106. A belated welcome to DU

I was an escort for Planned Parenthood in the 1970's. I was a little thing back then, 5'0" tall and 96 lbs. soaking wet but I had (OK have) a big mouth with a "back off" look that could make the biggest baddest bully back down. One day I escorted a woman who was VERRRRRY pregnant and was going into PP for pre-natal care. Some idiot yelled out her, "Don't kill your baby!" It's like, how stupid ARE these people? They honestly believe that every woman going into PP is going there for an abortion. 'Course even if that were true, it sure as hell wouldn't be anyone's business and doesn't give anyone the right to scream at them.

[raven mad]

109. Thanks for the welcome - I already love it here!

The jerk actually laid hands on my stepdaughter. I had just gotten home from a cargo flight up slope, was in a jumpsuit and steel-toed boots. He was lucky he backed off quickly. My stepdaughter now is a BIG supporter of PP. They even helped her find a nice midwife at a birthing clinic for a very low fee.

[jtuck004]

35. Soup kitchens on the sidewalks of the church while they are in

session. Give them a chance to know and perhaps give back to the community. Maybe drive a bus (or 40) through downtown and offer homeless people or those in need a meal, let them go through lines on the walk outside.

On their front steps, overflow in their parking. Private but public access, certainly more than a clinic, yes?

Maybe some water, a black magic marker, and a sandwich in a plastic bag with some info when we return them. Treat them nicely for awhile, give them some exposure, let them see more of the city that they may during a day, give them hope. In return, they get looked at, maybe some anti-abortion literature, which might make dandy sign-making material later on. (One gets thrifty and creative when they are homeless, if they can keep their spirit intact). But, generally, it would probably be a very positive outing.

Jesus would have said "y'all come on in", I think. Seems a church would be a natural place to start up a soup kitchen, and there are a lot of hungry people out there.

We could have the church swimming in a world of homeless people in need in no time. Give them something else to get interested in, help them forget all about barriers. Be great PR for the police department when they came to help. They might even have the phone numbers of some really good social workers, help these folks find jobs around there, all sorts of good things. Heck, the church might even have showers, and some have that big bathtub right up front.

Maybe we could make friends and suggest they not do the whole "abusing the people at the clinic" thing any longer while we are there.

[Doremus]

61. I love it. nt

[David Zephyr]

94. You are brilliant.

[jtuck004]

104. Naw, I've just read Saul Alinsky on tactics for organizers.

He can focus your thinking, really look at the process and outcomes.

And sometimes be funny

[niyad]

107. what a nifty idea!

[Dawson Leery]

36. k/r

[Prophet 451]

37. Ah, but then you'd be "persecuting Christians"

And the bastards would scream about how victimised they are again. Most infuriating feature of conservative Christianity, that perpetual, utterly unearned pretence of victimhood.

[cinnabonbon]

39. That is the most likely outcome and the most irritating one

Because they love being able to get evidence that they're really "victimized" for their faith. It would have to be important to highlight that they're to blame for this happening, it's not actually happening because people are "mean and oppressive".

[JDPriestly]

41. What would such an activity achieve other than to alienate religious people?

I wouldn't do it. And I wouldn't advise doing it.

[hobbit709]

43. When they shove their beliefs in my face they need to be alienated.

[JDPriestly]

46. See my Post # 45.

Many churches do not oppose abortion. And many members of churches that vocally oppose abortion do not themselves oppose it entirely.

You would end up harassing people who agree with you. I think that the thing to do is to support Planned Parenthood or other groups that you agree with. A positive action supporting people who courageously do what is right is worth more than a negative action opposing people who are doing wrong. You just give the wrong-doers more headline space, more attention.

[hobbit709]

50. I didn't say protest at ALL churches.

But if a given church wants to get in my face, I have the right to do the same.

[David Zephyr]

95. Yes, you do. And it's why they get away with oppressing women.

We, collectively, permit it through our silence and lack of pushback. So they are empowered to oppress more.

[Bandit]

47. If they get near you tell them you are fearful and will "Stand Your Ground" and see what they do.

Maybe if a gun gets pulled in their face once or twice they may rethink their course of action..

[HockeyMom]

59. Having a 4 year old yelling, "Don't TOUCH me"

when one of these protestors pats you daughter on the head works. Then to top off it, ripping up their anti-choice literature in their face, and saying, "I am a pro-choice MOTHER". Wish I had a camera with me to capture the look on the old man's face. Priceless.

No buffer zone and they were protestors from the local Catholic Church. BTW, my dentist was in the same building as PP.

[HERVEPA]

83. Well, that's certainly a wonderful idea

As a clinic escort, I certainly like the idea of injecting more guns into the general situation.

[cap]

52. be a hard thing to do in practice...

you run into hate speech laws. Same laws that protect minorities,protect religion.

Wish we could do a back at you, but I think we'd get in a lot of trouble.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. No such thing in the US, kiddo. That's why the other side can do what they do.

This is about simple reciprocity. Perfectly legal to protest. Have you not see Fred Phelps church with 'God Hates Fags' signs?

[David Zephyr]

96. Thanks.

Perfectly legal to protest.

Meanwhile, even buffer zones are for women are considered almost humorous to some on the Supreme Court.

[jberryhill]

103. What "hate speech" laws?

Please identify a "hate speech law" in the United States or any state thereof.

I will wait.

[cap]

110. Discrimination against race color or creed is in EEOC

I don't think we democrats would take too kindly against protests at synagogues.

I say tread lightly around churches even when you are really offended

[jberryhill]

111. Wtf?

The EEOC deals with employment issues. Yes, if you run a business, you can't refuse to hire Jews.

However, you can stand on the public sidewalk outside of a synagogue and scream "I hate Jews" all day long.

The US has no "hate speech laws".

[Arugula Latte]

53. Harass them at Opus Dei meetings.

Evil fuckers.

[treestar]

54. Pick the church carefully and it would be a good idea

The right wingers do organize and get out there. At some points it is ineffective, but it won't be unless you try.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. History bits.....111 Held in St. Patrick's AIDS Protest, 1989

While some 4,500 people demonstrated outside St. Patrick's Cathedral yesterday, several dozen disrupted the Mass at 10:15 A.M. to protest John Cardinal O'Connor's recent statements on abortion, homosexuality and AIDS.

Some of the protesters chained themselves to pews inside the cathedral, while others shouted or lay in aisles. ''We will not be silent,'' a protester, Michael Petrelis, 30 years old, screamed before the police arrested him. ''We will fight O'Connor's bigotry,''

The police said 111 people were arrested, including 43 inside the church. Many of the protesters were carried out on stretchers after refusing to stand up. Dozens of protesters blocked traffic on Fifth Avenue by lying in the street. One of them, Annie Hirsch, who said she was 12, leaned from a police bus and said, ''I'm here to tell people that women aren't going to take it any more
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/11/nyregion/111-held-in-st-patrick-s-aids-protest.html

[David Zephyr]

97. Thanks, Bluenorthwest for the history and link.

I think we are there again.

[mountain grammy]

65. the buffer zone is there because these people are dangerous and the Supremes,

who will never in their lives be faced with these dangerous people while going to see the doctor, need to enforce the right of women to go to the fucking doctor without having to deal with this bullshit.

[David Zephyr]

98. Right on, mountain granny!

[freshwest]

70. Nope, wrong venue. They love to carry grotesque, full color posters to clinics.

There are plenty of the same that could be mass produced, and each one shoiuld have a scripture to shame them for what they are doing right now - make them admit it's not abour doing God's will, but about their conservative politics:

The Inquisition and the methods of torture employed AND the reason, religious intoleerance, forturing people lie about their faith to increase the power of the church, and ti enforce only one doctrine, which is what they are doing. Did they approve of what was done in Jesus' name, the same way they approve of abortion clinic bombs and killind doctors in their homes?

The burnings of witches, cats, and other crimes that came from lack of knowledge, mob mentailty, a love of cruelty and social power. What spirit are they condoning as they refuse women having babies or not getting health care to save their lives, or better still, to get pregnant for wanted children?

The stoning of women in the Middle East, and the example of Jesus saving the woman caught in the act of adultery. Who are they to cast the first stone, when they do not know the people involved? Are they without sin? If they claim to be so, Jesus said their sin remains on them, so why are they claiming to do it for God? They aren't, they are poltiically motivated.

The cruxification, torture, slaughter, muliation and selling children, both male and female, toddlers and babies, into the European sex slavery by Columbus of the native people, in the Name of God.

Go into all the details. Ask them if they truly believe those people deserved that - not letting anyone off the hook for being 'saved' - own what they are, just as tney have condemned, mocked and harrassed those they don't like.

Hand them out the news stories of the indian children in mass graves in Canada, Ireland, etc. Hand them the stories of the young boys who were molested by priests in Europe who complained are were castrated surgically to make them girls. Is this the kind of direct action they want taken, where things get physicial or do they claim to be blind? Jesus did not give anyone a pass for that.

Talk to them about the way women and girls desiring eduation or health care have been treated by the Taliban in Afghanistan, running through a guantlet of ogling, yelling, hateful men. Is this the spirit in which women should be treated here? Do they know that the same spirit infects them?

The misery of slums, children sold into slavery, beaten, raped and killed because of poverty. Are they going to those homes to save those people, usually of color, perhaps all involved in things they never knew in their own lives? Do each of them adopt not only children to save them from abotion, but their mothers and fathers?

If not, what provision are they making for them? Do they support illegal immigrant children being cared for pre-natally and post-birth, healhcare and all of that - or do they want to keep their money to themslves? You cannot serve both God and Mammon.

Show us your bank account, Mr. And Mrs. Pharisee, let us see how you treat the least of these - the ones you don't want to know. Not on a whim out of charity, but paying your taxes as the Hebrews did the Temple, to provide for the poor, the widows and the orphans. Otherwise, a herd of camels will enter Heaven long before you.

I could go on with other atrocities that have been commtitted in the Name of God and Jesus. None of them were done through the Gift of the Holy Spirit, or Forgiveness and Love and neither are they bullying others. With the very same hand that they use to point and accuse, they are undone..

For the women who attend these mass shaming exercises, full of pride and fury, tell the the story of the Cows of Bashan. If they don't know, it, tell them to look it up, or give it to them.

It's not pretty, and it's about well-off women living off the oppression of the poor, and God's judgment on them. They will be judged more harshly than women going for healthcare or birth control or abortion. They could have helped them long before, but they loved their leisure and their earthly pleasures too much. This, too, in their belief system is being written down.

AFAIK, they are each and every one of them going straight to Hell for taking the Name of the Lord in vain and enjoying self-righteousness to scheme to get ahead of others. The 'sin' of the women which they suspect, but do not know, lays on them because that is where their own Hearts are corrupted.

Anyway, you get my drift.

[Curmudgeoness]

71. As one who has had to deal with these protesters

just to get into the clinic for my exam and birth control pills, I would love to push back. And I did get back in their face when that happened at a Planned Parenthood clinic. I let them know why I was going in, and I told them that their was a lot of other services provided in that clinic besides abortions. I let them know that they were scaring away women who just wanted birth control so they would not need abortions, and these women did not have the money to go to a doctor's office and a pharmacy. I doubt that I got through to any of them. They really didn't give a shit about what happened to any of the women going in their.

[David Zephyr]

99. It's really psychological and physical violence against women and it's orchestrated.

Talk about "bullying". There's the text book example. Thank you, Curmudgeoness.

[Curmudgeoness]

105. I definitely is psychological violence.

I never saw physical violence at these clinics. But there were so many women who were afraid to go in, even for birth control pills, that the psychological threats were real. And these zealots don't even realize it, they don't realize that they are frightening women from preventing a pregnancy that would then be terminated. But they don't care, they think these women must all be sluts and whores for needing birth control---even though many of them are married, but don't have a lot of money.

I had a man at the office bitching about women who can't even be "bothered" to get birth control...just buy the pill for a "few bucks". I love the stereotypes, and the ignorance. I do not know how much pills cost now, since I had tubes tied 30 years ago, but he didn't even realize that I had paid $30 or more per month, plus you need to go to the doctor and get PAP tests every year to get the prescriptions. Planned Parenthood was a godsend. In fact, my experience with using PP is the only reason that my conservative sister supports them and defends them.

[indepat]

72. These fine conservative Catholic Supremes would do the Taliban proud imo: they would also do any

totalitarian theocracy proud. Moreover, with great comic flair, they derisively make a mockery of our Constitution by rhetorically and metaphorically pissing on our founding documents and consequently the American public imo.

[ancianita]

73. Thank you. I wish more men had realized that the patriarchal wagons started circling 'round women

during the Reagan years, with the media and political drumbeat getting louder and more threatening with every Republican administration.

I don't know why things have had to get this far before the male public takes attacks on half the population's legal rights seriously.

[David Zephyr]

100. The turnback against women's rights did really start under Reagan.

And that turnback is in full operational mode.

Silence allows them to succeed.

[quaker bill]

74. It has been done.

a local Baptist church around here responded by bringing cookies out to the protestors. It is generally not an effective approach.

[David Zephyr]

101. See Bluenorthwest's post above.

.

[riqster]

80. Better to cut off their cash flow.

Boycott any and all "born again" businesses. Boycott their charitable events. Oppose zoning variances. File complaints with the IRS.

Their operations cost money. Cut off the funds.

[Zorra]

85. RW Christian War Crimes in Bosnia: 'The rapes went on day and night': Robert Fisk, in Mostar,

gathers detailed evidence of the systematic sexual assaults on Muslim women by Serbian 'White Eagle' gunmen.

The day was 2 August and all but 10 of the 105 women held prisoner in the gymnasium were to be gang-raped over the following 26 days, some of them by as many as seven Serb militiamen. Their suffering was endured by thousands of other Muslim women in August and September of last year as Serbian forces 'ethnically cleansed' the Muslim villages of eastern and western Bosnia.

What makes the ordeal of the Kalinovik women so important, however, is the extraordinary detail which is emerging of their mistreatment. Senad Saric, a gynaecologist from Gacko who has performed seven abortions on the survivors, has compiled a complete list of the names and ages of all the raped women along with those of five girls who were taken away by the Serbs and apparently forced to work as prostitutes. They were never seen again. Survivors, living now in shell-damaged buildings in Jablanica and in the ruined city of Mostar on the Neretva river, have also recorded the names of young men who were brutally murdered in their presence and of the fate of at least 71 other women who were machine- gunned to death in a neighbouring village. They say that the local Serbian police in Kalinovik knew of the rapes and murders but made no attempt to help them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/bosnia-war-crimes-the-rapes-went-on-day-and-night-robert-fisk-in-mostar-gathers-detailed-evidence-of-the-systematic-sexual-assaults-on-muslim-women-by-serbian-white-eagle-gunmen-1471656.html[/d

This is only some of what we know; imagine the greater mass horror of what we will never know.

The war in Bosnia is a solid bet for gathering information and photos of heinous atrocities committed by religious people. Maybe a few detailed shots of forced rapes and mutilations might be effective for use by protesters outside the houses of worship in question.

[David Zephyr]

102. Thank you, Zorra.

Glad to meet you.

[PeaceNikki]

92. god damned straight, david. thank you so much for making this important point.