On gay rights Schwitzer is a non starter

[dsc]

Montana has pretty much no protections at all for gays. It's supreme court did find the sodomy law unconstitutional in 97 and ordered state universities (and I guess the government) to give same sex partners benefits, but that's it. No anti discrimination laws or executive orders, no same sex adoption rights, no state hate crimes protections, and marriage banned by the constitution. Only the last, isn't at least partially his fault. It was one thing, in 92, to nominate Clinton when Arkansas was a disaster area for gays, but in 2016 to nominate a man who has pretty much no record at all on gay rights, I don't think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Montana

edit to add link

[BenzoDia]

1. But he dissed Obama. And that's what's important!

[treestar]

18. +1

It is telling how much immediate support he got for that!

[geek tragedy]

2. hey, his successor signed legislation repealing the ban on sodomy.

that's leadership in a way.

[dsc]

3. only if he had something to do with it

I am not saying he didn't, but I don't see any evidence he did either.

[Fumesucker]

4. I'm sure his thinking on gays is evolving

Such things have happened before you know.

[dsc]

6. In the case of Obama

he had answered the right way early and evolved the other way for his Presidential run, and then evolved back again. Clinton, to his credit, did address his horrible record and did try early in his administration to do right by gays.

[NuclearDem]

13. And then signed DOMA and DADT.

[dsc]

14. DADT was compromise

and if you want some idea what DADT replaced look at Nigeria under its new anti gay law. Arrests of gay servicemen with interrogations to get them to out others were commonplace in pre DADT armed services. A friend of mine is still on military disability due to those interrogations some 30 years later. DOMA would have passed anyhow with even Wellstone having voted for it. At the time there was a legitimate fear of a US Constitutional Amendment, which had it passed, would have banned marriage equality forever in this country.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. I get tired of people spouting that "he signed doma and dadt" bullshit.

I'm no big defender of Clinton but I was around back then and I remember what was going on and how we got there.

People who spout that shit are either ignorant, intentionally obtuse or disingenuous - or all of the above.

[DURHAM D]

39. +1000

[MADem]

54. You know what I was doing during that time? Carrying out a PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE...

...to oversee the rewriting of a huge swathe of DOD personnel rules and regulations, to ACCOMMODATE the lifting of the ban on gay servicemembers.

A large crew of us worked our asses off on that -- and it was no small task. You have no idea how many directives, instructions, notices, and other memoranda were written in such a way that gay personnel were excluded. We had to "gender neutral" everything, get rid of punitive language, it was a MASSIVE undertaking.

So anyone who tells me Clinton didn't want to lift that ban is just full of shit. He was hamstrung by a bunch of Republican assholes...but heaven forfend that any of them should be required to take the blame, here, for fricken anything!!!!

[Recursion]

5. What's Schweitzer's position on gay rights? Your post doesn't tell me.

Your post tells me the state of gay rights laws in Montana.

[dsc]

7. well it can't be all that good

given the state of gay rights in Montana. He issued no executive orders banning discrimination even in the hiring he was responsible for, that speaks louder than any words he might decide to utter.

[laundry_queen]

8. See, now that's discussing an issue

Clearly he's wrong. It's well past the time for all Democrats to come out in favor of gay marriage. Schweitzer needs to articulate his support of gay marriage or you are right, he doesn't deserve anyone's vote. Let's remember Obama's flip flopping on this issue too. So many times politicians use gay rights to try to gain favor in certain areas. Enough is enough. LGBT deserve the same rights as everyone else, there isn't any question on this, and politicians should no longer be allowed to use this issue to gain votes in states that are backwards on this issue. We need to hold their feet to the fire on this one, that's for sure.

[Rowdyboy]

9. He's gone a long way toward disqualifying himself for me in the last few days....

Moderate Republicanism doesn't appeal to me.

[Ikonoklast]

46. Funny how many support a guy who is a Blue Dog by pretending he's some sort of 'liberal'.

Just ignore all of his right-leaning positions and everything is Zen.

[Bobbie Jo]

57. Yes

Selective criticism. You know, options and stuff....

[MADem]

10. But..... but...... but......!!! He's pro-GUNS~! That starts with a G~~~!!!

And he's pro-NRA, pro-death penalty, pro-Keystone, pro-harsh penalties for drug offenders! And he's pro-Keeping MJ illegal!

And that, apparently, is what passes for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party in some corners of DU.....

[Number23]

52. Isn't it interesting that the folks discussing his anti-gay stance and his 'the only thing Obama

has done right is be black in the White House' stance are the ones being accused of being "fascist, authoritarian trolls" blocking the "inevitable one's" road to victory?

I mean, these folks don't even PRETEND to have any interest in the genuine base of the Democratic party. I have absolutely no idea who the hell they think they are fooling.

[MADem]

53. This guy is appealing....

....to the white, rural, male wing of the Democratic party.

And when was the last time they carried us to victory? I'm shaking mah head and scratching mah ass, trying to think that far back!!!!

[Number23]

56. Ha!

I'm shaking mah head and scratching mah ass, trying to think that far back!!!!

[dsc]

11. kick

[cali]

12. he's a non-starter in any case and another stupid DU distraction

[DemocraticWing]

15. He announced support for same sex marriage the same month as Hillary Clinton.

Whether or not his home state is so advanced doesn't really matter much, does it? Texas wasn't exactly a Civil Rights Paradise when LBJ was President.

No candidate is perfect, and while Schweitzer at least comes across as fighting economic inequality and opposing horrendous military/intelligence abuses, he has some issues (death penalty and environment regulations mainly) that I disagree with too. Perhaps there are better candidates. But pretending he's worse than Hillary Clinton because of where he's from is pretty ridiculous.

[Chan790]

24. Worse, perhaps not.

As bad as. That's enough for me since I will not vote for or support Clinton.

[dsc]

29. LBJ wasn't governor of tx

[Capt. Obvious]

16. Rec for this

an actual cogent reason to oppose him.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Candidate Obama said 'marriage is for one man and one woman, God is in the mix'

he also stated that straight couples have a 'spiritual element' that same sex couples lack. When asked to name a gay person he knew personally, the candidate could not come up with a single person, he finally offered up a professor he'd had whom the candidate said this creepy bigoted shite : "He was the first openly gay professor that I had ever come in contact with, or openly gay person of authority that I had come in contact with. And he was just a terrific guy. He wasn’t proselytizing all the time, but just his comfort in his own skin"

Now this 'proselytizing all the time' remark is ugly, but it is worse when one considers that this is the first gay person Obama can recall knowing, yet he already has preset opinion that gay people 'proselytize all the time'.

So look. We voted for that. For Donnie McClurkin as surrogate, McClurkin who had gone on 700 Club to declare war on gay people and accuse us of killing children.

Just saying. This other guy has never said such shit, nor has he promoted ex gay hate preachers as surrogate. A special standard for Obama? Why?

[dsc]

25. I didn't support Obama in the primaries

in large part because of the stuff you listed.

[KittyWampus]

30. You show up to lambast the Pope in almost every thread because of his stance on gay rights.

But you are questioning someone who examines Schweitzer on this issue?

BTW, it isn't just that one issue with Schweitzer.

There are a lot that are non-starters for the ideologues on DU to dismiss him from the start.

But GEE! He said he was running against Obama and apparently that's all it takes for some people.

"Why the special standard for Obama? Why?"

LOLZ that you don't get the hypocrisy.

[Capt. Obvious]

31. You forgot the :rofl: smilie

[dsc]

34. I defy you to find me cutting Obama slack on these issues

there is a reason he was so far down on my primary list (he was in point of fact my last choice) and his behavior about gay rights on the campaign was a huge reason why. It should be noted that I also think Cuomo is a non starter, not for gay rights where his record is stellar but for his economic policies and his excessive bipartisanship which was another problem I had with Obama.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Yeah, how dare I compare a current Democratic contender to the last elected

Democratic President. What a crazy thing to do, silly me. Pointing out the facts. Let me know when the Pope is an actual participant in US politics, he could chair the RNC well being anti choice as well as a homophobe.

[morningfog]

20. The next Dem candidate MUST support marriage equality. Does Schiwitzer?

Your post doesn't give any of his positions.

[Capt. Obvious]

21. He does

Google tells me

[DemocraticWing]

22. Yes.

“I believe that two people who love each other ought to be legally married … given the opportunity to support people of the same gender getting married, I do.”

http://intelligentdiscontent.com/2013/03/28/governor-schweitzer-on-same-sex-marriage/

[Zorra]

47. From my POV, that's pretty lame evidence. Personally, before I consider supporting him for Prez,

I want/need to hear him publicly state that he is 100% in favor of same sex marriage, and recognizes complete equality and protections for LGBT under the Constitution.

[stevenleser]

23. I think over the next year I am going to try to interview all potential 2016 Presidential candidates

on my show from both parties so they can all explain where they are on the issues.

[RedstDem]

26. would he run to be president

of gay America, or all America?

there's usually more than one issue for me to decide who to vote for...

[dsc]

28. If his record on abortion or civil rights were as bad as this would you complain about single issue

then? Sorry I think the rights of 5% of the people matter, pretty pathetic you apparently don't.

[RedstDem]

33. i'm not convinced he would take anyones rights away

but you might be right, or maybe not...

[Zorra]

49. "I'm going to support a candidate who does not recognize your rights under the Constitution,

because you, and your rights, are not important to me. I got mine, and if you don't have yours, too fucking bad. Call a waaambulance."

See how that works?

[KittyWampus]

27. Schweitzer is what many here call a third-way centrist. Or "turd way" as some think is clever to say

And that shows how the ideologues on DU for what they are- reactive and not concerned with facts.

Schweitzer is a mixed bag on a lot of issues.

[ZombieHorde]

32. He was the same as the other Dems, except Kucinich.

I would be surprised if any of the 2016 Dem candidates hadn't evolved on the issue by then. President Obama was a marriage-equality bigot, we voted for him, and then he evolved. Hillary Clinton was also a marriage-equality bigot when she ran, and she had many supporters here on DU. We all remember this.

[dsc]

35. this isn't about marriage

it is about him not even issuing an executive order banning discrimination against state employees, even VA has managed that. His record is literally non existent..

[tkmorris]

37. Issuing an executive order is actually quite a bold action

You make it sound like something a Governor does on a lark, perhaps while fishing on a Saturday morning. Furthermore "even VA" is actually a purple, trending blue state on the Atlantic seaboard. Montana is a different matter altogether.

He is on record saying he supports marriage equality. Is he a cape wearing champion of LGBT rights? No. But he's not nearly as bad as you are trying to paint either. So why are you doing this?

[dsc]

43. the fact is many governors have done so

and Virginia still has a major anti gay contingent, I would think way more than Montana. Even Governor Tim Kane, who got into office in 2006, managed to issue such an order.

[Vashta Nerada]

36. It seems as though people are trying to discredit a guy who doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell

in getting the nomination.

Hmmmm.

[morningfog]

38. He scares the hell out of them for some reason.

Their reaction alone is worth giving him a closer look.

[RedstDem]

40. he is a great alternative

to the ole Clinton, and would mop the floor with her.

[Vashta Nerada]

41. Yeah, but

I don't like his stance on gun issues. Or how he supports burning more coal and the Keystone XL pipeline.

[dsc]

42. I don't want to slide back on gay rights

even having him campaign for the nomination with that record is a back slide. Obama should be the last Democratic nominee who didn't support full equality for gays upon nomination.

[Vashta Nerada]

44. I agree.

[LondonReign2]

50. Not because he has a chance

but because he said something critical of Obama. That is verboten. Imagine if he ran and --gasp!-- continued to criticze Obama?!?!??! Therefore, he must be discredited NOW, before the primaries when more people will pay attention.

[LAGC]

48. Keep in mind he's had to deal with a heavily Republican legislature in Montana.

While I agree he may have been able to do more on the Executive Orders front, his record in support for civil liberties in general is pretty stellar.

Give him a Democratic congress and he'll run with it. If not, he has this which he likes to use frequently when Republicans try to pass discriminatory shit:

http://missoulian.com/news/local/schweitzer-setting-records-with-his-veto-pen-and-branding-iron/article_7142652a-68a9-11e0-acee-001cc4c002e0.html

[great white snark]

55. Agreed.

NO WAY any of his other shiny "liberal" stances makes up for this deficit and for people to attack your irreproachable record on this issue, namely giving passes to Democrats who deserved the scorn, is pretty disingenuous.