Arne Duncan "teachers in America often come from the bottom of the academic barrel"

[madfloridian]

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2014, 01:55 AM - Edit history (1)

He is fighting back hard now against teachers and bloggers who question his policies. Some of his words are truly rude and full of contempt toward public school teachers.

Have you noticed that there are few if any Democratic leaders speaking out against his hateful attacks on public education? This is the guy in charge of our education policies, and he can barely control himself when he speaks about these schools.

This is the hardest thing for me as a retired teacher to watch. Our Democrats refusing to support public education. It simply blows my mind.

Arne Duncan School Expectations Are Too Low in the United States

The former head of the Chicago public school system, Duncan told parents that there is a sense of complacency regarding education in the United States, but also a lack Duncan said, but also a lack of action by politicians.

"Both South Korean and U.S. citizens believe that the caliber of teacher matters tremendously, and the great teachers make a huge difference in children's lives," Duncan said. "The difference is: they act on their belief. We don't. We talk the talk, and they walk the walk."

...While teachers in America often come from the bottom of the academic barrel and are disproportionately teaching students from disadvantaged backgrounds, Duncan said, teachers in South Korea are selected from the top of the class and are rewarded for working with low-income students.

He has been showing his disregard for those of us who are or have been in the field of education. He actually used the words armchair pundits.

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan spoke publicly of Diane Ravitch in an interview in 2011, where he said: "Diane Ravitch is in denial and she is insulting all of the hardworking teachers, principals and students all across the country who are proving her wrong every day,"

Yesterday he expanded a bit on this sentiment. Though he did not mention Ravitch by name, he seemed to have her in mind when labeling his critics "armchair pundits" who are "so supremely confident in their perspective that they have simply stopped listening to people with a different viewpoint."

Those we are supposed to be listening to are the very ones profiting from the taxpayers' money which is being diverted from public schools to charter schools, and now even to private religious schools in the form of vouchers. He has turned education over to those who know the least about it, and he is fighting back against the rest of us.

TFA blogger Gary Rubenstein recalls some of Arne Duncan's quotes which indicate his lack of true understanding of education...to put it mildly.

The lack-of-wit and lack-of-wisdom of Arne Duncan

Some of the quotes:

“I see extraordinary schools where 95 percent of children live below the poverty line, where 95 percent are graduating, and 90 percent of those who graduate are going on to college.“

In almost every case those percentages have been disproven. They are words of charter schools with high attrition rates bragging about untrue statistics.

“The vast majority who drop out of high school drop out not because it’s too hard but because it’s too easy.”

Baloney.

“if we had 95,000 good principals, we’d be done.”

That's not a very intelligent comment.

“I think the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans was Hurricane Katrina.”

There is nothing to be said to that.

If he wants to get his agenda through, he must first discredit the public school system. Looks to me like the man the president put in charge of public schools is doing a very good of it.

[El_Johns]

1. Says Duncan, who got all his jobs through connections. What a putz.

Duncan got a degree in Sociology from Harvard in 1987.

From 1987 to 1991, Duncan played professional basketball, mostly in Australia...

First job outside basketball:

In 1992, childhood friend and investment banker John W. Rogers, Jr., appointed Duncan director of the Ariel Education Initiative, a program mentoring children at one of the city's worst-performing elementary schools and then assisting them as they proceeded further in the education system.[2] After the school closed in 1996, Duncan and Rogers were instrumental in re-opening it as a charter school...

[madfloridian]

2. Oddly enough he'd rather have TFA teachers with 5 weeks training.

[YOHABLO]

47. TFA .. they are the ones who won't commit to a career of teaching .. you betcha.

TFA is an insult to all of us who had to struggle through University teaching programs .. that took four to six years.

[tomg]

128. I have been asked to write

letters of recommendation for students who decide they want to go into TFA. I tell them I have a policy of not writing letters for TFA and that I have too much respect for them than to help them work as scabs.

[madfloridian]

140. Good for you.

You are so right. They are taking jobs of laid off teachers, of career teachers. Good teachers.

[Chiquitita]

155. Right move

I did recommend an excellent student once for TFA and regretted it. He got in, worked for one year and got out because:

1. The school didn't have a budget to give kids a good environment and materials.
2. Teachers were overworked and harassed by school district level administrators.
3. He didn't have enough training to do his job well.
4. The community he worked in was ravaged by economic exploitation and low investment in its people.

[awoke_in_2003]

12. Including his current job...

the president endorses this asshole.

[jsr]

27. Connections made him float to the top.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I considered teaching

but all the "reforms" made me turn away in disgust to be honest.

[narnian60]

141. You definitely dodged a bullet. nt

[Turbineguy]

4. That's bullshit.

He should be ashamed of himself. One of the best Teachers I ever had was in the first wave in Normandy. This was one of the guys that won WWII.

[roody]

5. He even spiced it up with some racism.

He wouldn't last two hours with my first graders.

[TheMastersNemesis]

6. Disgusting. Arrogant Bastard.

[ailsagirl]

145. x1000

Unmitigated GALL

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Then wouldn't it follow that requiring states to... say... *double* existing teacher salaries,

as an added condition for Race to the Top funding would *instantly* and *significantly* raise the "quality" of people going into the profession?

This could be accomplished, it seems to me, at the stroke of a pen.

Either these people believe in "market-based reform" or they do not.

[AllyCat]

160. Good point.

[davidthegnome]

8. What an ass.

Okay, this man needs to either resign in shame or be booted out. I don't care which, but this loathsome human being should not have anything at all to do with our educational system.

[Starry Messenger]

9. He's a Christie Democrat

[awoke_in_2003]

13. Who nominated him...

for education secretary? It wasn't Christie (and yes, he is another asshole)

[Starry Messenger]

14. Linda Darling-Hammond was thought to be a front-runner.

We came up for air and it was Arne. It must have been a quid pro quo. I think we are pretty much stuck with him. The time to replace him would have been after 2012.

[Smarmie Doofus]

19. At this point it doesn't matter. School "reform" is a 500 BILLION $ gold mine.

That's a lot of shekels.


Too much money already invested already.... buying-off pols, etc.


That kind of capital demands a return on its investment.


There are always plenty of Duncans to go around.

[Trailrider1951]

74. THIS ^^^^^

It's all about the moolah. It's all about MONETIZING your children's lives.

[CrispyQ]

125. Truth.

Short change future generations for profit today.

This country is depressing.

[freebrew]

138. Right. School reform...

in our district the new buzzword is Baldrige Method. I have no idea what this is costing us. The new super has already hired an outside IT firm that knows little about IT it seems.

The school board used the Newton shootings to scare the public into passing a huge bond for security, as soon as it passed, the administration was heard poo-pooing that idea. I'm sure the board has given the admin folks huge raises and pensions. The staff, teachers and others get bupkis.

And to top it off, this new super says the district now has stakeholders. Kind of thinking maybe that means the local minimum wage employers..

We have never seen the district in such bad shape.
A few years ago drug-testing was implemented, yet they only test the poor kids that beat the rich ones in sports.


Sorry for the rant...it just gets to me and I feel powerless as we need the wife's job for the little she gets paid.

[Cane4Dems]

10. I have all the respect for teachers don't get me wrong

....but what he's saying is somewhat true

For the younger generation there really isn't a motivation to propel the brightest to enter the teaching field and who can blame us?
The pay sucks, the hours are horrible, and teachers just aren't given the respect that they deserve

Obviously some great students are becoming teachers, but on the most part the smartest of our younger generation are gravitating towards medicine, law, engineering, etc.....and as a country we should ask why is this happening?

Until our society begins acknowledging the value of teachers and gives them the proper respect our education system is going to remain broken

[madfloridian]

16. Why is it happening? Anyone who enters the education field right now is crazy.

It is happening because the more they defund and dismantle public schools the less they have to offer teachers.

No, it is not true that the brightest always head to other fields. That is often repeated, very untrue.

I was near the top of my college's graduating class, and I chose the field of education. Many others near the top did as well.

You are right about the lack of respect.

[Cane4Dems]

82. im from class of 2010 (high school)

and just from my high school sample of kids I can confidently tell you that no a single person in at least top 50 of the class rankings decided to go into education (and by education I mean like a teacher for elementary, middle, or high school).....in fact the two girls who did decide to become teachers were probably one of the worst students in our class- great people but in terms of academics their grades were terrible and personally I don't see how they could help mold our future generation into the thinkers that we need them to become

Now I'm not saying that smart people don't become teachers- what I'm trying to say is that at least in my eyes based on personal stories I don't see students who are doing academically great veering towards educational jobs for the most part

Obviously the situation may have been different 10 years ago.....I'm just commenting on the situation right now among students who are actively competing for jobs at this moment

[hughee99]

97. Does anyone want to rack up tens of thousands of dollars in student loans for a job

that barely pays enough to make the minimum payments?

Yes, some of the "best and brightest" that were able to get a big (full) scholarship to a top school, but those with substantial loans often can't afford to make this decision.

[Cane4Dems]

101. Exactly

That's what my initial post was trying to say- that until our country as a whole acknowledges how important the job of a teacher is and then raises the pay to reflect that our teacher pool isn't going to get any better.....if teacher pay was made better I can guarantee you the brightest students would actually think about entering the field

Obviously republicans will never allow teacher pay to be raised......I don't get how there are teachers who actually vote for republicans?

[RebelOne]

154. My daughter is a teacher at a charter school in Miami.

She was fortunate enough to work for a college in Miami where she received free tuition, and her only cost was for her books. Then she graduated with her bachelors degree and started teaching at a public school. Then she got a grant, studied and received her master's degree. She was one of the lucky ones, I guess, who is not in debt for her education.

[Chiquitita]

156. I don't think there is anyone in this country who cares enough to stand up for teachers.

That's a sad truth. There are groups of teachers that try to defend themselves and they are not listened to or respected. It is amazing to me that educated people who vote for Democrats think things like, "Someone needs to teach the teachers how to teach." They get these ridiculous sound bites from somewhere and never realize how condescending and alienating they are to real teachers. Who needs to be continuously taught how to do their jobs? Just listen to teachers (not Duncan who has no teaching experience) to know how to fix public education. Put the money into teachers and materials (not assessments, administrators, technology, privatization).

No one needs to teach my husband how to teach his second graders. All are on free or reduced lunch and almost all are at or above grade level. He needs to have access to materials, resources and PLANNING AND ASSESSMENT time. To achieve what he achieves with his students he works 7-5 at school M-F and at least 8 hours on the weekend, grading and doing lesson plans. Kids come at 7:15 and he oversees the last one getting on the bus at 3. Planning time during the day: 35 min (plus the 2 hours he stays over which at times are taken by "data driven" meetings and other silly buzz words). HA HA HA. Unfortunately the joke is on us and our lost quality of life.

[WinkyDink]

77. Yet more and more districts seek not to reward with $$ teachers with higher degrees.

[awoke_in_2003]

11. Fuck you, Duncan...

The bottom of the barrel is where education secretaries come from.

[mountain grammy]

15. I despise this man. Come on, Obama, ditch this jerk.

[madfloridian]

17. So do I. His very presence as education leader is insulting to teachers.

Amen to that.

[WinkyDink]

78. Let's think this through a bit. Is Obama oblivious? No. What then might we conclude, class?

[Chiquitita]

183. You got me thinking...

maybe this is what we have to conclude...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024393444

[whathehell]

18. Duncan sounds like Larry Summers -- a real elitist jerk, although, frankly,

I suspect there's more where they came from.

I was disgusted to learn, for instance, that there are MORE graduates of Britain's Oxford University in this Administration

than there are from any of our public universities.....The Ivy snobbery does seem strong there and it pisses me off,

especially when I think of some truly great public universities like University of Michigan and UC Berkley.

[jsr]

23. But but don't you have to go to Harvard to be president?

Our last two presidents are Harvard graduates. They're the greatest and made us the bestest country ever for all Americans.

Seriously, the Ivy League stranglehold that perpetuates itself on our federal government and federal courts is utterly ridiculous.

[pnwmom]

20. If you doubled the salaries you'd more than double the number of highly qualified

graduates competing for these positions.

[madfloridian]

22. Not unless they were treated with more respect from our leaders.

The money would attract some, you are right.

[pnwmom]

26. In this economy? A secure job with that kind of pay would attract MANY. But actually

doing the job is another thing. Being a good teacher doesn't have that much to do with GPA's and class rank.

[JVS]

28. The money isn't the problem, it's the children and their parents who make the prospect unattractive.

Its a thankless task and too many idiots are sending their junior douchebags to school and then flying into a rage if you demand they STFU and let the other kids learn.

[pnwmom]

51. From my perspective as a parent, it was the administrators who put the teachers

into impossible situations and had impossible expectations. The older, wonderful, experienced teachers were leaving in droves -- and it wasn't because the students or the parents had suddenly changed.

It was because all of a sudden the only things that mattered were the scores on the state tests. (It was so bad that they dropped all social studies and science from elementary school because they weren't on the test.) And it was impossible to have 100% of the students, including ESL, LD, etc., meeting the "standard" in all subjects but no one was allowed to admit that.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. My Wife Was A Teacher

Special Ed. Seldom were the parents the problem. I, like you, think the administration is generally underqualified and i've seen some of the worst management practices ever when observing the "leadership" at the schools at which my wife worked.

[Smarmie Doofus]

61. Good god is THIS true: ^

>>Special Ed. Seldom were the parents the problem. I, like you, think the administration is generally underqualified and i've seen some of the worst management practices ever when observing the "leadership" at the schools at which my wife worked.>>>

She must have worked in my school.

[WinkyDink]

79. PREACH!

[Blanks]

158. I have 3 young adults who went through Special Ed...

And the behavior of the school and the administration when we had to interact with them was the very definition of unprofessional.

Educators ARE at the very bottom of the 'drop out' barrel - which means basically that when a college student can't cut it in engineering, or business or construction science or philosophy - they end up in the education department.

While it isn't fair to say that educators are the bottom of the academic barrel (because some teachers start out wanting to teach) they are still among a group of people who quit a bunch of times to end up there.

Education is much different than it was when I went to school, and it is not better.

I think it's the administration that causes the problems. It cannot be fixed without addressing it at that level. In my view most of the administrators kept going to school when it was time for them to go to work.

It (the college of education) has become an in-bred system where they are cranking out teachers that don't know how the world works outside of education because the people teaching the teachers have never been out of school. The systems broke.

There are a lot of good teachers, but even they can't do a good job in a system that is broke.

[Lifelong Protester]

83. As an administrator, I take umbrage at this

broad brush comment.

If you were an administrator now, you'd know that regardless of what we think, the government is now skewed towards those who are all 'number'= people-not happy until we are all drowning in data.

I am not that kind of administrator. I most certainly do not think that all that matters is a test score.

[madfloridian]

87. Not just teachers protesting policies now...principals fighting back as well.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/248-li-principals-join-protest-against-over-testing-1.6449414

More than 500 principals from across the state -- nearly half from Long Island -- have joined the movement against the newly revised state assessments, saying that students are being tested too much with no clear benefit to their education.

In an open letter to parents from New York State principals and written by local principals including Sean Feeney of The Wheatley School in Old Westbury and Carol Burris of South Side High School, the group outlines 11 problems they see with the state assessments and cautions about the tests' future impact.

"Under current conditions, we fear that the hasty implementation of unpiloted assessments will continue to cause more harm than good," read the letter drafted last month. It has 3,160 signatures, including 248 principals from Long Island.

Also many school superintendents are now speaking out against these policies as well.

Thanks for your post.

[Lifelong Protester]

174. Yes, we have had enough.

I believed, like those in medicine, we were first to do no harm. I cannot be silent when I see the harm that this testing mania can bring. I "buffer" the best I can by not buying into it, and not buying into the corporate mantra of "We can fix it if you JUST buy our program....".

Thanks for posting back.

[pnwmom]

104. I was only speaking about my experience, not making any broad brush statement.

But I agree that the administrators are reacting to political pressure.

[Lifelong Protester]

175. Thanks for posting back. We administrators

are under fire, too, and some of us are doing the best we can to keep the harm from spreading.

I hope your situation has/did improve.

[pnwmom]

178. We left the public schools when we'd had enough with the superintendent.

He had vaulted our school district to the top of national rankings simply by requiring that every student take an AP test to graduate. When that wasn't enough to set us apart, he proposed that every student take FIVE AP tests to graduate. (They didn't have to take a class or even pass the test -- just take it. Which was a significant waste of money for thousands of kids.) Fortunately, the parents rose up on masse to prevent that, but I could see the writing on the wall.

Our oldest had taken 7 or 8 because she wanted to -- but we never pushed our other kids to take them. The idea that you need 5 college level classes to graduate from high school is ludicrous.

Shortly after we put our youngest in private school, the superintendent left -- for a high paying job with the College Board: the maker of the AP tests. What a scam.

I continue to support the public schools, vote yes on the levies, and even volunteer for the levies. But I hate the direction our district has gone in the last ten or fifteen years and I finally gave up fighting with them.

[Lifelong Protester]

179. Wow, that is quite an experience

I would be upset too. When national rankings are more important than the kids you serve, something is wrong. It is one thing to offer the opportunities for AP, it is quite another to coerce for some rankings.

Knowing your backstory, I don't blame you for being upset. I thank you for your support of public education!

[pnwmom]

180. The Newsweek ranking was the primary offender.

They calculated their ranking purely from the number of tests TAKEN divided into the number of students in the class. So all that mattered was how many students took the test -- not how well they did on them.

One of my daughter's friends was in an AP statistics class that 3/4 of the students were failing. But it didn't matter (except to all the frustrated students) because as long as they took the College Board test, the school's ranking was secure.

And then this guy went on to a cushy job with the College Board, where he convinced other districts to push the tests . . . what a racket. He died a few years after moving back east, I understand. I wasn't one of the grievers.

[Lifelong Protester]

181. Yes, we are among the schools ranked in Newsweek

but jeez-o-pete, way to kill the love of learning in a kid! One of our statements of purpose is to instill "a love of learning" as well as "lifelong learning". Coercing kids who are unready or really unable to take on AP is a huge disservice that will accomplish neither of those. And we are to be here to serve.

I am sorry to say that at the top of the heap there are always those looking to the next "prize"-like the cushy College Board job. Serve the community and children you have, I say.

People like that give us all a bad name.

[MyOwnPeace]

132. I, too, don't like the...........

"broad brush" approach with the comments. I spent 24 years as a teacher (elementary, middle, secondary, college) and 11 years as a principal/professional development director and have seen more than I care to go into.
Yes, there are problems and they will take a unified effort to correct them. Attacking those most involved with doing the actual work will not get it done.
Here's a question: Who is hiring these unqualified teachers? Could it be directives from the controlling boards (hire the daughter of the school board president - she needs a job).
If the candidates are unqualified, how did they get their degree?
Does anybody really believe that a "teachers union" wants to keep unqualified people working alongside them?
And what about this story:

The Blueberry Story:

“If I ran my business the way you people operate your schools, I wouldn’t be in business very long!”

I stood before an auditorium filled with outraged teachers who were becoming angrier by the minute. My speech had entirely consumed their precious 90 minutes of inservice. Their initial icy glares had turned to restless agitation. You could cut the hostility with a knife.

I represented a group of business people dedicated to improving public schools. I was an executive at an ice cream company that had become famous in the middle1980s when People magazine chose our blueberry as the “Best Ice Cream in America.”

I was convinced of two things. First, public schools needed to change; they were archaic selecting and sorting mechanisms designed for the industrial age and out of step with the needs of our emerging “knowledge society.” Second, educators were a major part of the problem: they resisted change, hunkered down in their feathered nests, protected by tenure, and shielded by a bureaucratic monopoly. They needed to look to business. We knew how to produce quality. Zero defects! TQM! Continuous improvement!

In retrospect, the speech was perfectly balanced — equal parts ignorance and arrogance.

As soon as I finished, a woman’s hand shot up. She appeared polite, pleasant. She was, in fact, a razor-edged, veteran, high school English teacher who had been waiting to unload.

She began quietly, “We are told, sir, that you manage a company that makes good ice cream.”

I smugly replied, “Best ice cream in America, Ma’am.”

“How nice,” she said. “Is it rich and smooth?”

“Sixteen percent butterfat,” I crowed.

“Premium ingredients?” she inquired.

“Super-premium! Nothing but triple A.” I was on a roll. I never saw the next line coming.

“Mr. Vollmer,” she said, leaning forward with a wicked eyebrow raised to the sky, “when you are standing on your receiving dock and you see an inferior shipment of blueberries arrive, what do you do?”

In the silence of that room, I could hear the trap snap…. I was dead meat, but I wasn’t going to lie.

“I send them back.”

She jumped to her feet. “That’s right!” she barked, “and we can never send back our blueberries. We take them big, small, rich, poor, gifted, exceptional, abused, frightened, confident, homeless, rude, and brilliant. We take them with ADHD, junior rheumatoid arthritis, and English as their second language. We take them all! Every one! And that, Mr. Vollmer, is why it’s not a business. It’s school!”

In an explosion, all 290 teachers, principals, bus drivers, aides, custodians, and secretaries jumped to their feet and yelled, “Yeah! Blueberries! Blueberries!”

And so began my long transformation.

Since then, I have visited hundreds of schools. I have learned that a school is not a business. Schools are unable to control the quality of their raw material, they are dependent upon the vagaries of politics for a reliable revenue stream, and they are constantly mauled by a howling horde of disparate, competing customer groups that would send the best CEO screaming into the night.

None of this negates the need for change. We must change what, when, and how we teach to give all children maximum opportunity to thrive in a post-industrial society. But educators cannot do this alone; these changes can occur only with the understanding, trust, permission, and active support of the surrounding community. For the most important thing I have learned is that schools reflect the attitudes, beliefs and health of the communities they serve, and therefore, to improve public education means more than changing our schools, it means changing America.

Copyright 2011 Jamie Robert Vollmer

[madfloridian]

142. Good post. Students are not products.

Schools can not be run like businesses.

[narnian60]

144. + a zillion!

And no we are not talking about ALL administrators, but I would say many after my years of experience.

[DevonRex]

157. I think with the salary increase the respect would follow.

I'm not talking about from Arne, etc. I mean from the rest of us Americans who have been trained to think that money demands respect. In Finland teachers do not make a lot and they're respected as professionals. But their culture is different.

I think here, if we want teachers to be treated like doctors, attorneys, architects, we should pay them like professionals. Then we'll see a completely different attitude from parents and communities. Learning itself will be cool again. Like it is in Finland.

[YOHABLO]

49. There are thousands of people wanting teaching jobs .. but where they are needed >

is in rural America .. not the hip urban centers where everyone wants to live. I've been to all the teacher fairs and you would be amazed at the caliber, diversity of ages, and races represented. I will say this, principals prefer younger applicants rather than older more experienced teachers, simply because they will not question their authority. It's mostly the administrative, top down, authoritarian governance that is so stressful for those teaching in public schools. You have to constantly watch your back, and watch out what you say, or you could easily be removed .. from your less than $30,000 dollar a year teaching position. I digress.

[pnwmom]

50. I saw this happening as a parent.

Suddenly, the district had a new authoritarian superintendent and the whole state was test-crazed. I had originally picked the town and its school district over others because it offered an "individualized" education. That worked out well for my oldest, and then everything fell apart. The new young teachers dutifully jumped through the flaming hoops. The older teachers, especially the very best teachers, decided to take early retirement. All the kids lost out.

[joeglow3]

85. Then why are rates of teachers losing their jobs due to poor performance so much lower than...

...damn near every other profession?

[madfloridian]

89. Do you have a source for that?

I had not heard that.

[joeglow3]

84. But we already have kick ass teachers who do a great job

One only needs to look at the incredibly small number of teachers that lose their job for poor performance.

[Flatulo]

21. Back in my high school days ('69 - ''73) I had a few outstanding teachers, brilliant people

who set me on a path towards engineering and science. These teachers had the gift of being able to show kids how bright they were.

Unfortunately, for every one of these highly influential educators, there were ten drones who were just biding their time until retirement. They obviously hated their jobs and had no ability to connect with the students.

I'm forever grateful to the excellent teachers. But the reality is that teaching skills, like just about every other thing that can be measured, generally follow a Gaussian distribution. There are a few outstanding ones, a few losers, and everyone else falls around the mean. It's just how things are.

[madfloridian]

24. You say 10 of 11 teachers were "drones"? I so disagree.

I taught over 30 years, and I saw nothing of the sort. As in any field some are not as effective as others. But this "most teachers are bad" meme started with Reagan.

It's really insulting.

[Flatulo]

36. I attended the shittiest high school in a rather shitty city. It was run-down and had fewer

graduates than the other three schools. The only notable achievement we had was an excellent hockey team, mostly because they could beat the shit out of the other teams. The school closed a few years after I graduated.

I got out of that city and moved to a town outside of Boston. Night and day difference. We have very high tax rates, but our schools are excellent and 90-something percent go on to college.

I didn't say that in every school there are 10 shitty teachers for every good one. I said in my high school. It was just a dumping ground for both teachers and students. Most of my teachers were in their seventies and had absolutely no rapport with the kids. They'd stand there in front of the class reading from the textbook.

Why feel insulted? I'm a mechanical engineer, and trust me, there are far more mediocre ones than excellent ones. I don't find it insulting to have this pointed out. It's not a personal attack, just an observation.

[JVS]

33. I had a couple of bad teachers, but I noticed many more bad students in the classes I took.

The teachers falling around the mean were all competent at least. If you wanted to learn, you could. This idea that learning has to be a fucking magical experience for students is bullshit. Interest and motivation should be primarily the students' responsibility.

[Flatulo]

41. Sure, the teachers can't do anything with unmotivated students and parents that aren't engaged.

Far too many kids come from this kind of background. You would just not believe some of the monsters I grew up with. Just viscous, viscous kids. Sociopaths.

But a few excellent teachers can have a more profound influence than a largely apathetic staff.

Trust me, public education in parts of Worcester, Massachusetts in the sixties and seventies was truly, truly horrible. Much worse than anything I've ever seen depicted in fiction. There was a "rich" part of town that had the best of everything. I lived on the opposite side of the city.

[Karia]

48. Maybe at your school 4 decades ago

But that has not been my experience at all. My daughter is getting an excellent education in our urban public schools. Every single one of her teachers has been incredible: bright, dedicated, hard-working, caring, and intellectually creative. At first we thought she was just lucky, but as we spent more time in the elementary school, we realized that ALL of the teachers are terrific. When it was time to move on to middle school/high school, we were worried, and started looking at private schools "just in case." There has been no need - we are still very happy with her public school education. She is learning the same things as her suburban counterparts (yes, I do keep track), and is ahead of them in math. The teachers are terrific. She has never had a "drone" or even a teacher she found boring. Not one.

The teachers also go in early to give last-minute homework help, and to run academic "clubs" before school. They stay late to run more academic clubs, school newspapers, sports, etc. They are at the school 10+ hours/day, more if there is a PTA meeting, a sports competition, a school newspaper deadline, or a kid who needs them. Some of them even went in to school to run sports practices and help students with academic issues during the winter break!

Best of all, my kid has never stopped loving school, and neither have her friends. At their age they try to be too cool to show it, but I know them.

If anything, I think public school teachers are better than ever. They know the money sucks but go into teaching anyway because it is what they really, truly want to be doing.

The average test scores are lower than in the suburbs, but this is not due to deficient teachers. Nor is it (as I have heard some racists claim!) because a high percentage of the students are African American or Latino/Latina. It is because the only meals some of the students get are the ones they eat in school. It is because medicaid pays for only 2 pair of glasses a year but the cheap medicaid-allowed frames break easily. It is because their parents are the working poor, too busy juggling 2-3 minimum wage part-time jobs to help with homework or make dental appointments for kids with toothaches. It is because they live in crowded, noisy places and can't sleep well.

Don't blame teachers when students get low test score. Blame a corrupt economic system that punishes and crushes the life out of nearly half of the population.

[JVS]

25. The dunces have an easier time finding places in politics and administration.

[delrem]

29. So who appointed Arne Duncan?

How did the person who appointed Arne Duncan get in power?

Is his appointment typical?

What are Dems doing about it? Do they support it, or not? If they don't, why did they vote in the people who appointed and support Arne Duncan? If there was no alternative, as in a case of "least of two evils", why haven't Dems put forward an alternative?

Is there a viable alternative to Hillary-'16, or ?

[JVS]

30. Obama did. And Obama's appointments frequently reflect poorly on him.

If I had known the appointments that Obama would make, I'd have never supported him in the 2008 primaries. His rolodex (especially from Harvard, remembering Larry Summers) is a cavalcade of shitheads.

[jsr]

32. They are arrogant elitist shitheads

[bobduca]

35. we are supposed to champion his "Team of rivals"

"For Democrats, the liberal base is 17% of the electorate. That can't be your base. You can't build pyramids that way," Bennett said. "The base of the Democratic Party are moderates. When we win pluralities of moderates, we win elections."

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/08/news/la-pn-democratic-leadership-council-20110208

Revising history is critical for these fifth columnists.

[font size=5]"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone"[/font]
Roger 'Verbal' Kint - the Usual Suspects (1995)

[merrily]

45. Bennett, being a VP of Third Way has every incentive to

find that liberals are a small percentage of people who vote.

Perhaps that is true of people who actually label themselves liberals. But, when things like public option and increasing income taxes for people making over $250K a year poll at over 70% of people polled from all political persuasions, the lie that Bennett and others are trying to peddle becomes patently obvious.

Poll this country on issues, without using labels like "Democrat" or "liberal" and you get liberal responses, including from Republicans.

[bvar22]

111. Obama's "Team of Rivals":

[font size=5]
The DLC New Team
[/font]
(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

I'll bet they had a lot of good laughs over THAT one as the champagne flowed on Wall Street.

[Buns_of_Fire]

90. Obama did some "bottom-of-the-barrel" scrounging himself when he picked his cabinet.

And I'm looking at you, Arne, you tick turd!

I seriously wonder how many favors he must have owed to foist people like Duncan, Summers, Geithner, and Emanuel into the government? And face it, Mr. President, "Harvard" just doesn't have the cachet it once had, when you consider the caliber of some of its fairly-recent graduates.

[JVS]

94. All true

[QC]

134. Amen!

One would have to go back decades to see a Democrat appoint crummier people than this crew.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

153. "Cavalcade of shitheads" … filing that one away

Apt description of many/most in the Beltway bubble and in leadership positions in our country … business, political, religious.

We're in so much trouble in this country and the majority of our "leaders" simply don't have the intelligence, skills or willpower to fix it. Or, they are being paid to do otherwise.

[Rex]

31. Like I give a shit what that failure thinks, he is trash.

nt.

[SheilaT]

34. Unfortunately, that's true. Which is not an excuse to trash teachers,

but needs to be acknowledged.

I graduated high school in 1965. I was the beneficiary of the era when women had very limited career choices, so many of the best and brightest became teachers. But by 1965 things were opening for women. And by that time it was already known that those who were going into teaching tended to have the very lowest SAT or ACT scores of all college students. Because by now, a lot of career possibilities had opened up, and unfortunately, it was those who were more or less left behind who went into teaching.

Please do not misunderstand me. I have enormous respect for teachers. I spent some years thinking that teachers were somewhat incompetent, and then I had kids. I honestly spent some time seriously thinking about home schooling * and then I understood how difficult a job it was to teach. But by then, the teaching profession had been seriously downgraded. Not because those who taught weren't competent, but because the profession itself had fallen into disrepute. Again, not because of those in the profession, but because of changes in our culture. We don't pay teachers enough, and so it's hard to attract good people into the profession. Teachers are treated with scorn, so who would stay in the job?

I wound up sending my two sons to an independent (meaning secular private) school. Even though we lived in an excellent public school district (Shawnee Mission, Kansas), the decision had to do with specific circumstances surrounding my oldest son. Meaning, he was being bullied and keeping him in the (otherwise excellent) public school was not a good idea. So we moved him to the private school. And even though the teachers there were paid less than they would have been in the public schools, they stayed because the benefitted from parents who were truly committed to their childrens' education, and administration that totally backed them.

I also want to say this: My children attended public schools in three different states, and I want to say that almost every teacher my kids had were genuinely dedicated. But the first time I attended a back to school night at the private school I was blown away at how much happier those teachers were. They knew that they were supported by parents and administration. More than one had been in the private school system, had tried the public schools for the money, and returned to the private school because of the support.

The main thing I took from that is that we need to pay teachers what they deserve. And we need to support academics. And we need to provide all of the services that all the students need. Period. No questions. The main advantage private schools have is that they don't have to educate all the various and many special needs students out there. We need to educate all kids.

The other thing was that academics came first in the private school. My kids were learning new material the day before the last day of class. In the (otherwise excellent) public schools, books were turned in and all learning stopped about a week before the end of school. No wonder private school kids have an advantage.

* Home schooling. I think that all parents should consider this, not because it's necessarily the right thing to do, but if you seriously think about home schooling your kid you will then ask the hard questions, think carefully about what you really want for your kid. It ultimately makes you a better parent within the conventional school system.

[madfloridian]

40. Never will I agree that "many" teachers come from "the bottom of the barrel."

Some are not as capable as others, but that is an all-encompassing statement that is simply not true.

It is an attack on the teaching profession, on the career teachers who are experienced and caring.

If parents can afford private schools without having taxpayer money, that is great. However in Florida there is a serious lack of regulation. Many private school teachers are not certified or qualified as there is no requirement for that.

The exodus of students to charter schools using taxpayer money, the use of vouchers given to private religious schools.....these are destroying the public school system.

Once you discredit public school teachers, the rest is easy. The corporate takeover then begins.

When George Bush made any moves against public education, this forum fought back. Now there is no fighting back, just acceptance of it as a party policy.

[joshcryer]

46. The poster was talking about long timers, imo.

They were not bashing all teachers.

Here's why:



Source: http://www.ncei.com/Profile_Teachers_US_2011.pdf

I don't know how 'many' long timer 25+ year teachers are out there so I can't say if it qualifies for 'many.' (I'd say under 15% would not constitute 'many.')

[madfloridian]

55. Actually in most fields experience is considered a good thing.

The chart shows the impact that programs like TNTP and TFA are having on education just in the last few years.

The alternative routes to certification are more attractive now due to the fact that Arne and Obama have criticized traditional degrees in teaching. They have done much to contribute the idea that older teachers are not good teachers. That is shameful.

Here is a little about what Teach Now is about.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tara-sophia-mohr/teach-now-jennifer-louden_b_837352.html

One of the ways she's working on this mission of supporting others in service is through Teach Now, an online course she co-created with Michelle Lisenbury Christensen. Teach Now is about teaching -- but not just for professional educators. It's about how all of us can claim our role as teachers more fully and more confidently, and share our knowledge with those who need it.

I recently interviewed Jen, and we discussed why we need teachers now more than ever, how we can overcome self-doubt in our teaching, what qualifies us as "ready to teach," and much more.

When we hear the word "teacher," many of us think of professional, full-time educators -- like kindergarten teachers or the high school math teachers. You embrace a much more expansive definition. Who do you include in the tribe of teachers?

JL: My friend and co-creator of Teach Now Michele Lisenbury Christensen came up with this great definition: 'A teacher is anybody who shares ideas, energy, information with others for the sake of serving.' I love love love this.

Sounds good, sounds great. Makes it sound like enthusiasm is better than the experience of being in a classroom with children and knowing how to inspire them. Love love loving it only takes one so far.

The chart makes a point I have been making for a long time. Look at the huge spurt of growth of alternative certification. When that is only 5 weeks training under contrived conditions, it is not enough.

Most teachers are not from the bottom of the academic barrel.

There is no defending that statement.

[Rex]

65. Some of the most afluent people I know are public school teachers.

It is pathetic that anyone would buy into Duncan Donuts bullshit about 'bottom of the barrel'...he is scum that should be fired for failing to do his job!

Of course what do I know, I just come from a long line of teachers.

[liberal_at_heart]

67. "Now there is no fighting back, just acceptance of it as a party policy."

It's because we have a democratic president. If we had a Republican president, this forum would be on fire. I don't understand how winning can matter if the policies are the same.

[Rex]

66. Bullshit, that is not true at all.

Your blanket statement is sad to see on DU.

[progressoid]

37. Wow, Arne.

"Why don't you take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut?"
-Kurt Vonnegut-

[Lint Head]

38. Arne Duncan sounds like a cynical ass with a cynical attitude. My Aunt was a teacher of the first

order and extremely smart academically and in life. She was dedicated to teaching, loved children and cared about their future. What a legacy. She passed away last year and adults who are very successful today came out of the woodwork to site her as the greatest influence on their lives. I miss her as much as my own mother.

[DeSwiss]

39. K&R

- And the saddest part? Is that anyone knows his name at all......

[merrily]

42. Arne Duncan IS the bottom of the educational barrel.

What a @##@$%.

[bbgrunt]

43. he and the dem party are once again, sabotaging the ideals of democracy. k and r

[G_j]

44. what a despicable thing to say!

no decent human being, with any intelligence, could expound such nonsense. What a creep!

[Enthusiast]

52. Recommended X 1000!

The problem is they're not "our Democrats". They are someone's Democrats.

[SoCalDem]

53. It's about the pay...and now about the pensions

Why would the "best and brightest" be swarming into a field that treats them so badly?

Teachers come in many "flavors"..

many are truly devoted to kids and have always wanted to teach. These people gladly suffer the slings & arrows ..until many of them burn out and quit..

Others are teachers because that's what's available to them ..

There was a time when teaching and nursing were about the only careers open for women who graduated from college..

Many men did not become teachers because the pay was too low.

The fact that it was a union job with benefits/pension & summers free made it attractive to many...but when those things are under constant assault, why would people be that interested anymore?

[KG]

54. Arne Duncan LOL n/t

[hobbit709]

56. Duncan is not and never was a teacher.

He is an "education administrator". Nuff said.

[Stuart G]

57. Duncan was/is a political hack...Was head Of Chicago Public Schools?...now how did that happen??

Picked by the mayor..(don't remember which one..they are hacks)..to reform and change the school system. He did everything to hurt teachers...then, cause he worked in Chicago, and a certain senator was from Chicago..He was picked to be some sort of political hack in the U.S. Government..asshole, hack, bottom of the pile .He gives a bad name to honest, decent, law abiding shit..Low level rotted shit..lower than low.....Lowest level shit you can think of..that is him...kinda like shit from Ted Cruz..real bad..

[Paladin]

59. This asshole should have been marginalized a long, long time ago. (nt)

[madrchsod]

60. so that`s why his kids went to a 25,000 per student a year private school?

his kids went to their private school while he was gutting everyone else's public schools.

thanks barack for bringing your buddy to washington to destroy public education nation wide.

[GeorgeGist]

62. Tea bag much ...

Arne?

[Renew Deal]

63. With the "bottom of the barrel" argument, is he saying teachers aren't paid enough?

Is he saying that teachers need more financial support?

[msanthrope]

68. I think what he's saying is that we have low expectations for teacher qualifications.

It's a systemic problem...if we value an Education degree over honors degrees in the subject matters teachers are teaching, then we get lesser-educated teachers.

[Godhumor]

69. He is saying there is a cultural difference in how the profession is treated

His point is that in South Korea teaching is a highly respected job that is treated as such. Therefore, the best and brightest, so to speak, enter the profession. Here in the US, we don't value teachers in the same way, so our best and brightest do something else. As a result, many of our teachers are people who couldn't find another career and weren't necessarily hoping to teach.

He is posting into the idea of "Those who can't, teach".

Extremely rude and clumsy way to say we need to make teaching a career people want to enter.

[madfloridian]

70. "the bottom of the academic barrel"..

He is insulting the intelligence and capabilities of teachers..

[HereSince1628]

73. I think he's just pushing the old academic saw...

"those that can, do; those that can't, teach".

But that old myth goes on from the first verse... "those that can't teach, teach teachers; those that can't teach teachers become administrators."

And so Arne leads us to the conclusion that he is also positioned in the marmite at the bottom of the barrel.

[hatrack]

64. Sounds like he's "reaching out for bipartisan consensus", doesn't it?

Fuck you, Arne, you arrogant piece of shit.

(Son of two teachers who were, by the way, Goddamned smart and extremely hard-working, so again, fuck you, Arne).

[DemocraticWing]

71. The 1% is auctioning off the public education system.

Pretty soon we'll be back to the days where only the children of the rich can go to school. Enjoy having a middle class while it lasts, because Republicans (with the help of "Democrats" like Arne Duncan) are going to destroy it before long.

[madfloridian]

72. ......

[Liberal_Dog]

75. Holy Shit!! nt

[WinkyDink]

76. "So supremely confident" = psychological self-revelation.

[grahamhgreen]

80. Wonder what kind of container he comes from.

[Glitterati]

81. Democrats may want to ask Roy Barnes how productive this is

Then Governor Roy Barnes in 2002 thought it was a good idea to attack the teachers and teacher union during his re-election campaign and during his term in office.

The end result? Teacher support put the first Republican Governor in office in 125 years!

Yeah, DEM pols, keep up that behavior and see what it gets us all.

[polichick]

86. This guy is Obama's choice? WHY?????

[Doctor_J]

124. Because Obama is a far right corporatist Republican

duh.

BTW he is also a prodigious liar during his campaigns.

[liberal_at_heart]

151. go ahead make a joke while some of us are actually suffering under these Race to the Top and

Common Core Curriculum programs. My special education student is expected to perform at the same level as his general education peers because of this crap. And why the hell did Obama put Duncan in that position anyway? Duncan obviously has no respect for public education. Why would Obama put in him in charge of it?

[geardaddy]

88. What a fuckwit.

[NCTraveler]

91. If he would have said this 10 years ago.....

we would be looking at it as his self fulfilling prophecy. While I don't agree with his policies, it is those policies that are making this quote somewhat truthful. So many good people graduating high school right now wouldn't even think about going into the field of teaching. Because of his policies education is not attracting the same types of people it did 20 or 30 years ago.

"...While teachers in America often come from the bottom of the academic barrel and are disproportionately teaching students from disadvantaged backgrounds, Duncan said, teachers in South Korea are selected from the top of the class and are rewarded for working with low-income students."

[n2doc]

92. More hate from the "education Czar"

Hey bozo, I know you think this to be true already, but if you are hoping to be vindicated, then paying teachers like fast food workers, taking away all their security, and filling their classrooms with hungry children until the kids are packed in like sardines is a great way to achieve your goal!

[TBF]

93. Arne, you ignorant slut, you are not even in the barrel -

how this former basketball player was appointed to Secretary of Education blows my mind.

[Harmony Blue]

95. Duncan is a trainwreck

he just needs to go away.

[blkmusclmachine]

96. Another Third Way "DEM" hack.

[cvoogt]

98. Maybe

If he made a policy to pay teachers more and principals less (especially in charter schools), there'd be a different situation. Can't have that now.

[hughee99]

99. Whenever the discussion of teachers salaries comes up, I always ask

How does paying a teacher more IMPROVE their performance?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that teachers SHOULDN'T be paid more, and there are certainly reasons to pay teachers more, other than just for better performance, but I've never understood how simply paying a person more money to do the same job makes them do that job better.

Yes, we could invest in MORE teachers to reduce class size, better facilities and equipment to make teaching easier or more effective, or pay for continuing education for teachers (or even past eduction, like wiping out college loans), all of which, I think, are good ideas, but none of those things are the same a simply paying a teacher more money.

[Bradical79]

105. Well, it attracts better talent

and improves morale among teachers. I imagine it's easier to focus on teaching when you have financial stability and knowing you couldn't leave for a less stressful for more money. Increasing academic standards for getting into an education major could be reasonable if coupled with better pay.

[hughee99]

110. Attracts better talent?

Yes, I agree. While I wouldn't consider today's teachers "bottom of the academic barrel", there seems to be some here unwilling to admit that the problem (in part) IS the quality teachers themselves.

More money would attract more and better candidates, but you can't make that argument without an acknowledgment that the current crop of candidates (on average) could be much better, which people don't want to do because it makes them feel like they're shitting on teachers.

[theaocp]

159. I can unequivocably say

that DIFFERENT people would approach education with different incentives. The current Obama fucker-in-charge wants to have it both ways: bitch about how sad our situation is AND offer no positive changes, other than more giveaways to corporate interests (where ARE my good buddies at Pearson, anyway?). Until the system is lauded again as a public commons GOOD, as it should be, Arne AND Obama can piss off and commiserate with some of their dollar bills.

Those who can, teach. Those who can't, make laws about teaching.

[Egalitarian Thug]

135. How low is low enough for you? Haven't we learned that the human variable is the only thing

that works? Haven't we learned that there is no amount of money so large that a dedicated administration can't suck it all up before a dime hits the classroom? Haven't we learned that forcing good classroom teachers out of the classroom and into administration so that they can actually make a living is a very bad idea?

Apparently not.

[hughee99]

148. Did you read ANY of my post?

Did you hear me complain that the teachers are paid too much? I specifically went out of my way to do the EXACT opposite.

[Egalitarian Thug]

162. You went out of your way to weasel a morally and factually bankrupt idea

into the realm of "reasonableness". The very idea that the centrists/corporatists have been pushing.

[hughee99]

177. Do you believe that paying teachers more will improve their performance?

Again, I'm not arguing that teachers SHOULDN'T be paid more, but when discussing performance, is the reason to pay them more to improve their ability to convey their knowledge to students, or to attract people who may be better at conveying knowledge to students?

[sabrina 1]

100. And at this point, is there anyone, other than the Corporations he represents, who listen to this

obvious ignorant moron when it comes to Education. Each time he speaks he, probably unwittingly, demonstrates why the US is so behind other countries academically. He is a disgrace to this country as a Representative of our Educational System. A joke, actually.

HIS job is to move Public Education Funds into the hands of Private Corporations and anyone who threatens his job by pointing out his failures regarding Education, (he is successful at his real job sadly) he lashes out at in the most juvenile manner.

His 'reform' is laughable as far as Education goes. Worse even than Bush's.

Let him keep talking, the more he does, the more he elevates Teachers and actual educators and without any help from anyone, draws a clear distinction between Corporate Stooges pretending to be knowledgeable about Education and Real Educators, like the ones he singles out for his childish attacks.

[ladjf]

102. "[fill in the blank]" in America often come from the bottom of the academic barrel".

The post is statistical non-sense.

[Bradical79]

103. The "problem" he mentions

doesn't match the actions of the school reform agenda he supports.

Seems like the problem as he describes it would have a very simple solution. Increase the academic standards for going into teaching and (the key) offer pay and benefits to match. None of this charter school nonsense and poorly thought out testing and performance standards address this alleged problem in the slightest.

[madfloridian]

120. Amen to that.

He is hurling insults in desperation because parents and teachers are fighting back. But he really need not worry, his job is secure. He is a longtime friend and basketball buddy of the president.

Only public school teachers need fear for their jobs, as they are the only ones held accountable.

[City Lights]

106. He's an arrogant, rude idiot. nt

[FloriTexan]

107. Kick & Rec

[d_r]

108. Duncan wouldn't know this

as a sociology major, but most teacher preparation programs have higher admission standards than the general university they are located at.

[ancianita]

109. Arne spouts the class war rhetoric he was taught by1%-ers at Harvard. He's their puppet privatizer.

Fuck Arne Duncan and the horse he rode in on.

The history of education shows that schools of education began in the most prestigious of universities. But when teacher training resulted in too many upwardly mobile competitors taking leadership positions from prep school richies, universities began the campaign of underfunding their schools of education and saying that the results of public education weren't worth the cost. Then came national testing in the 60's, which prep school richies were exempt from.Then came the closing of university teacher training schools in the 80's, along with math/reading tests every few grades in public schools. Still no testing for the 1%'s prep school kids nationwide. University lending got shifted from the government to banks. Then came all the rigged "crises" from rigged data of the 90's and 2,000s.

Arne is looking bad. He's got to spout some bullshit to distract the public from how bad all the privatized charters are turning out, and how inequitable education is in America.

Arne Duncan has never, ever earned a day's pay teaching in any classroom. He will never be a credible expert about the teaching profession, a profession he has done his part to ruin. ANYone who wouldn't be caught dead REALLY teaching in a public classroom, or simply holding a state teaching certificate, should nevereverever stand as a president's qualified expert about the nation's public schools. Ever.

Schools are not stepping stones for one's advancement. They are the place of Americans' commitment to the advancement of their children. Schools are for those committed teachers. Scholars of their communities.

No teabagger proclamations, corporations or 1% machinations will change that.

Americans' schools, like America, are what all Americans make them.

[madfloridian]

170. Yes, he is looking bad. He is on the defensive now and flailing out at those who cross him.

[questionseverything]

112. so i have questions

i am raising grandkids,the youngest being in kindergarten,at her teacher's conference the teacher warned me that end of year testing will include the students reading a simple story and writing 3 sentences about that story,complete with caps,punctuation

and 92% of the kids have to be able to do that to pass? or our school will get another failing grade

WTF....she is only 5 and i am pleased as punch with her progress,(she reads site word books to me every night)pleased with her teacher and the entire school in general but if i am not misunderstanding something here,the feds are simply setting up our neighborhood schools to fail

there is just no way she will be able to pass that "test" and she tests in the top 5 students of her grade/class so no way will the school get 92% to pass....do we lose federal funding after so many years of being a "failing" school?

we are in downstate illinois and have adopted common core,your input to my questions would be appreciated

[madfloridian]

116. That testing of K and Pre-K is shameful.

The tests I have seen are very hard for that age, and simply inexcusable. The teachers mostly are shocked, but they have no say over it.

It is Arne's new Common Core, which is taking the place of the failed NCLB.

There is more testing than ever in the future.

It's a crying shame.

I taught primary grades, and I empathize with those having to test the really little ones.

It's sad.

[questionseverything]

118. it sets them up to fail

please address my question about losing federal funding if you can

[madfloridian]

168. Arne has bribed districts to get his policies enacted.

Millions if they do this, millions if they do that. If they don't, they don't get the money. Districts have sold their souls to get his money.

From 2010, here's only one example:

Principals pay a price so their districts can get Arne's money.

."Ms. Irvine was removed because the Burlington School District wanted to qualify for up to $3 million in federal stimulus money for its dozen schools. And under the Obama administration rules, for a district to qualify, schools with very low test scores, like Wheeler, must do one of the following: close down; be replaced by a charter (Vermont does not have charters); remove the principal and half the staff; or remove the principal and transform the school."

More:

"An elementary school principal in Lincoln, Neb., is being reassigned. District officials say that she's great and that the school's real problem is poverty. But, they say, the price for receiving millions of federal stimulus dollars is her reassignment.

"It is a direct result of the federal government infringing upon the local control of education, which we all find distressing," Lincoln Public Schools Superintendent Susan Gourley was quoted as saying by the Journal Star.

Why is this happening? Because Elliott School, where De Ann Currin is principal, is expected to be among five Title I schools identified in Nebraska as among the lowest of the low-achieving schools, making it eligible for a portion of $17 million available to Nebraska. The money is part of $3.5 billion that the Obama administration has made available to help the most “persistently low-achieving schools” in each state."

More at the link.

[ancianita]

113. MOREOVER, teachers come from the 30% committed enough to obtain a four-year college degree.

70% of the country doesn't. When many of the 30% want to advance the 70%, all this bullshit stirs is class war shit.

[Plucketeer]

114. Give Arne some credit here

If anyone's qualified to identify with "bottom of the barrel" scrapings, it's his sorry ass!

[Javaman]

115. My dad had two masters degrees and graduated summa cum laude.

Doesn't sound like the bottom of the barrel to me. He loved teaching.

[madfloridian]

117. I and many of my fellow teachers were magna cum laude.

And I so agree with you.

[yurbud]

119. Democrats in Congress are following DLC playbook: "fuck teachers, they have no where else to go"

Can you imagine Republicans talking to oil or coal company execs or trust fund babies like that?

[Wounded Bear]

121. Same old, same old...

Remember the old saying?

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."

It's a slam against teachers and it's been going on for years in our anti-intellectual society. Apparently, they've found a more politically correct way to insult teachers.

[Doctor_J]

122. If the president doesn't demand his resignation this week,

I think it's time to call Obama the worst Dem president in history. He has done absolutely nothing for his constituencies. Nothing.

[Jefferson23]

123. What's going on that he is so defensive he feels he needs to attack? Ravitch

finally getting enough people to listen to her that he's worried more Americans can
see through his horrific policies?

K&R

[Orsino]

126. The man who fights to deprofessionalize teaching doesn't get to criticize.

Or is he just bragging?

[LeftishBrit]

127. I have observed that Education Secretaries in both Britain and America often seem to come from the

bottom of the barrel!

[madfloridian]

129. lol I have observed that also.

It's an international movement to harm public schools. Not just US.

[fredamae]

130. Clearly, Mr Dunce-err Duncan

has first hand knowledge of said "Academic Barrel Bottom" and is Not afraid to prove it.
Which ironically makes him, in the eyes of those who chose him--the Perfect candidate to be in charge of Ed Policies in America.

(where is that sarcasm button?)

[merrifield]

131. BS!

I am a history teacher with an undergraduate degree in history and a graduate degree in geography. I was one of two people in my entire graduating college class with a summa cum laude. Tell me how this is bottom of the barrel? Most of the colleagues I've worked with are so intelligent and good at what they do. This is bullshit.

[madfloridian]

146. Totally agree.

Welcome to DU.

I graduated pretty high up in the class, and I take these attacks from him very seriously.

[Atman]

133. How is this man still part of the administration?

He is horrendous.

My SIL is (was) a school principal in Florida, worked her way up from a first-grade teacher. She finally quit last year, took early retirement. She couldn't take working under Rick Scott anymore. Teachers and nurses are two professions that don't pay nearly enough, imho. Thankless.

[liberal_at_heart]

136. what an ass.

[Initech]

137. What an asshole! He's the kind that comes from the bottom of the barrel!

[KamaAina]

139. So I take it secretaries of education come from the sludge at the very bottom?

[FairWinds]

143. Hey Mad Floridian . .

Thanks so much for taking the time to keep raising education issues.
Charter schools in particular make my blood boil. They are rife with
outright fraud. And don't forget the for-profit "universities" (using the
term very loosely) that seem to have no other purpose than further
impoverishing the working poor. Grrrr !!

[mrmpa]

147. Damn him, he is such a bastard............

My undergrad GPA was 3.4 majored in History
My graduate school GPA was 3.6 received a Master of Arts in Teaching

My BA is 10 years old and my Masters is 8 years old. I have only taught 3 years, because no one is hiring and when they see my Masters they think I will max them out in salary. I only am 5 years away from 62, so no way would I max out on salary.

Duncan wants only Teach for America participants in schools, he does not want anyone who has a degree in Education. It's cheaper that way.

[Baitball Blogger]

149. The day we start paying teachers the way we pay CEOs, and when we start paying CEOS the

way we pay teachers, everything will change for the better.

[reformist2]

150. His statements are not only false, but deliberately inflammatory.

[madfloridian]

163. Yes, they are meant to anger us.

And that is truly a shame.

[sulphurdunn]

152. Actually, Arne

is a sociology graduate. They rank at the bottom of the IQ barrel for college majors, almost 10 points on average below those who fill the ranks of teaching from the academic disciplines of the arts and hard sciences, English, history, library science, computer technology, economics, philosophy, foreign language and political science, all smarter majors on average than sociology. Of course, there are plenty of sociologist out there who are plenty smart, but it's unlikely Arne is one of them. Smart people, like teachers, don't need to pull fake facts out of their asses to persuade others.

[Ka hrnt]

161. A good day for Arne Duncan is one where he's merely worthless...

...rather than harmful & destructive to education. He is a living embodiment of "Who you know is more important than what you know (and can do)."

[indepat]

164. Surely Arne Duncan will receive innumerable messages as to where in the barrel

he and his policies reside.

[icarusxat]

165. I came late to the teaching profession...

I earned a PhD just to feel as though I was on a level playing field with the colleagues I admired and respected. The career teachers knew so much about their students' needs, their chosen fields, classroom management, and on and on...

Bottom of the barrel? Hardly.

[KoKo]

166. Again...PBO should be ashamed to have someone like Duncan speak for him!

it's truly disgusting to hear that quote from Duncan.

[ReRe]

169. K&R

Fuck Arne Duncan. And I wish someone would explain to me why Obama picked him for head of Education. Was it just because he was a crony from Chicago? Really... someone please explain that to me. Karma is going to get that man. Wait and see. No one gets away with an attitude like that, when they are the head of the Education system in this country, for Christ's sake. Why didn't PO get rid of him in his second administration?

[TheKentuckian]

171. This is what we are doing with our turn at the bat. Fucking Arne Duncan.

[mike_c]

176. my thoughts exactly....

+1

[Nanjing to Seoul]

172. Let's see. I was a teacher in the US before leaving for Korea and China.

Let's see if I am bottom of the barrel:

BA Political Science - Uni. of Arizona
BA History - Uni. of Arizona
Minors in Sociology and Economics

MA - Adolescent psychology - Northern Arizona Uni.
M.Ed - K-12 Educational Leadership - Northern Arizona Uni.

Current PhD candidate in Chinese history - Nanjing University (in conjunction with Johns Hopkins Uni).

Speaks five languages
Lived in four countries
Student teacher mentor
Head of Department in the United States

Assistant Head of Humanities now
Dual Certification (now lapsed) in History and English
Elementary and Secondary Administration Certification

Yes, I am bottom of the barrel, as are all teachers.

Please go fornicate yourself with a rusty screwdriver, Arne! And shame on Obama for having this Rod Paige clone working for him.

[madfloridian]

173. .....

[blackspade]

182. Teachers to Arne Duncan:

Fuck off.