To the younger women of DU:

[Le Taz Hot]

Why do you think women's rights and the women's movement don't resonate with younger women? Yes, there are pockets here and there but nothing like during the suffragette movement or the women's movement of the 70's. Somewhere along the line the message of empowerment was lost and we managed to move BACKWARDS. So, these are some of my questions:

1) Why isn't there a significant women's movement for the 21st century?

2) What do we need to do to resurrect the women's movement but adapt it to the 21st century?

3) What can we who fought the fight in the 70's and 80's do to help?


I really am anxious to hear your perspective.

Thanks,

LTH.

[calimary]

1. Me too!

I'd love to know how to grow the movement back up. I've said this to my daughter and her friends about the right to choose. We fought HARD to secure that right for you. You take it for granted at your peril, because there are TONS of people lying in wait, ready and eager to take it away from you in any way they think might be possible - the INSTANT you let down your guard.

[Nye Bevan]

2. Most of the big battles have been won.

Not being able to vote was a very big deal. Things like "benevolent sexism" are small potatoes by comparison.

[redqueen]

7. I didn't know you were one of the younger women on DU!

Learn something new every day..

[BainsBane]

81. But everyone on DU is a feminist!

Even the ones who say we got all the rights that matter in 1920 and the stuff like the right to own property, hold a job, and actually choose who we have sex with are "small potatoes."

[leftyladyfrommo]

106. Actually, the biggest fight hasn't been won.

That is just the overall realization by our society and culture that women are whole people with all the rights and respect that entails.

Now women are still hanging on the a lower rung and hoping we don't lose our grip on that one.

[treestar]

102. lol, I bet this thread gets very few replies

from actual younger women!

[redqueen]

104. Well the demographics of the site seem to skew older, and male...

so yeah.

[bettyellen]

8. 84% of all counties in the US have no abortion providers

Have you read anything about the Rw's attacks on women's reproductive freedom?
Anything? It appears not.

[theHandpuppet]

9. And the continuing fight for reproductive rights?

Those rights are under constant assault and certainly are no manifestation of benevolent sexism.

[NuclearDem]

24. Big battles like a rape epidemic, victim blaming, unequal pay, abortion restrictions,

and lack of access to birth control?

But no, women got the right to vote and now everything's just fucking peachy. If you seriously think "benevolent sexism" is the biggest thing women have to deal with, then you're not paying attention.

[redqueen]

27. The epidemic of domestic violence, which results in an average of three women murdered every day

by boyfriends, ex boyfriends, husbands, and ex husbands. An average of three women die every day, just in the US.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

94. In a population of 350,000,000, I don't think I'd term that an "epidemic".

In comparison against, for example, nearly a hundred gun deaths a day, over a hundred from drugs, and between 100 and 150 from traffic.

It's three more than I'd like, but I'm actually pleasantly surprised the number is that low. Are you sure that's not an underestimate?

[redqueen]

99. Those are the women who are murdered. Millions more are beaten every day.

Domestic violence is an enormous problem.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

110. Compared to what?

I think your claim that millions more are beaten every day is almost certainly wrong, probably by about three orders of magnitude! I would guestimate that for every man who kills his wife on a given day, the number who beat them is probably about a thousand, give or take one power of ten but almost certainly not three. So I am pretty confident that at least one of your two figures is massively wrong.

And guns, traffic and drugs also harm a lot more people than they kill. So unless either the ratio of damage to death is much higher for domestic violence than for the others, or your three-a-day figure is a significant underestimate (which it may be - as I said, I'm pleasantly surprised it's so low), I'd quibble slightly with "enormous", I'm afraid. It's 1/40 the number of women who die from breast cancer, as a fourth example.

To put it in perspective, three deaths per day is one death per three million people per year, (or one death per one and a half million women), or about a thousand deaths a year all told.

So "large", yes - a thousand deaths a year is not a small number, even in a country the size of America. But, if your figure is accurate, then to be honest I read "three women a day are killed by their partners in America" as "America has done very well indeed tackling domestic violence, and should keep up the good work", not "America is doing something wrong on domestic violence, and needs to change tack".

[redqueen]

111. Why do you need to compare it to anything?

Why the effort to insist things are great?

Three women a day are murdered by boyfriends, husbands, or exes, and you say we're doing a great job America, keep up the good work.

Nobody intentionally murders a woman using breast cancer. I find your post extremely fucking offensive.

[Lancero]

56. Realistically...

Giving them the right to vote should have resolved the unequal pay and abortion restrictions.

We could say that it's sad that they are voting for people who aren't looking out for their intrests, but then again... Thats sexist too.

[redqueen]

62. That's not realistic at all. Votes don't affect patriarchal values.

For decades after women had the right to vote, the idea that a women should actually participating on government was far from popular. Same with every other patriarchal value.

[Lancero]

73. Yeah they do.

For these values to become a part of law, people need to vote for them to become law.

The solution is simple - Vote out the people trying to restrict their rights, vote in the people supporting them.

[BainsBane]

93. Kind of living voting has given men a guarantee of a fair wage?

You seem strangely oblivious to the government of the country you live in. Vote in who exactly? Do you know how campaigns are financed in this country? Do you know anything about American history, labor, race relations, inequality, the struggle for healthcare, union busting, regulation Wall Street, curbing the disparity between executive compensation and average workers wages, ending war? Just vote and that magically goes away. Only it doesn't because that's not how power works.

[redqueen]

105. No. Votes don't affect the values that are instilled in us since childhood.

We have laws against racial discrimination in some areas. It's not illegal to be a racist, and many, many people grow up indoctrinated into racist belief systems in their own families.

Even those that don't learn it at home have their views influenced by the media and the behavior of people around them.

It is the same with sexism and misogyny.

Votes don't influence patriarchal values - patriarchal values (which are learned throughout one's life, starting way before one is able to vote) influence votes.

[bettyellen]

88. shoulda woulda coulda. IT DID NOT. Hence, the fight continues.

[Starry Messenger]

79. Is that why we are fighting off getting rape-probed for abortions?

Not to mention all of the other states where abortion is now materially unobtainable? Gosh. So glad we have you to set us straight, our ladybrains might not have seen the rainbows and unicorn farts.

[Squinch]

85. ^^This. As more actually experience this, rather than just hearing about it,

people will get the message.

[BainsBane]

80. Yes. I have no doubt that 1920

is exactly where some some would like us to stop. "Benevolent sexism" like Lois Jenson and others experienced at Evelyth Taconite, where they dared to take jobs as taconite miners. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenson_v._Eveleth_Taconite_Co. The "benovlence" included male workers' ejaculating on the women's clothing and lockers, and breaking into Lois Jenson's home and threatening her son by knifepoint, all while management did nothing. http://www.bernabeipllc.com/pdfs/Kabatarticle.pdf

Then there is the benevolent issue of married women having no right to private property and employers being allowed to legally refuse to hire women just because they were women.


1/3 of American women today experience the "benevolence" of rape and/or physical assault by a partner or family member.

Yeah, we should have stopped at 1920 because you say so. Anything after that was just a drag to those men pissed off about having to treat women as human beings and not being able to get a job over a smarter, better educated women just because he is male.
And of course our basic right to be free from rape and assault is just "small potatoes.'

But it's not up to us. You proclaim our basic rights small potatoes, and that's really what matters. We're only women.

[Le Taz Hot]

3. Kicking once

because I and others are REALLY interested in your interpretation.

[hamsterjill]

49. I am VERY interested in knowing this.

I'm 55 and all of this right wing war on safe and legal abortion angers me to no end. I cannot imagine any other female, young or old, not feeling the same way. Obviously, some do not. So I'm interested in knowing why, etc.

[NV Whino]

4. I saw the same thing happen on a smaller scale in San Fransico Women in Advertising

10 years down the road, the newer, younger members had no interest in running the organization or participating in the projects and workshops. They floated along on what the older members had built. And enjoyed the (many times free) drinks at the meetings. Those of us who set up the organization, worked for equality in the workplace and ran the workshops were burnt out at that point.

As the penultimate president, I erased the considerable debt. Then I worked with the next president to close down the organization.

Young women will only step forward when something hits them personally. And please understand I'm generalizing here. I know there are young women out there who understand the importance of continuing the fight, but there are too few of them.

[redqueen]

5. A link to a story from the Guardian, for the young women of DU.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/10/fourth-wave-feminism-rebel-women

[Le Taz Hot]

6. LOL!

I was JUST going to add that link (and give you credit). Thank you,

[redqueen]

28. It is always my pleasure to share good news.

[msanthrope]

13. Since it's a story about how young women are taking political action as opposed

to writing screeds on the Internet, I think it might be an article for older women who self-identify with the second-wavers.

[seaglass]

20. Yeah because there is no sexism online.

From the linked article.

"Thousands more feminists raised their voices online. Bates and Soraya Chemaly, 47, were among those who set up a campaign against misogynist pages on Facebook, including groups with names such as "raping a pregnant bitch and telling your friends you had a threesome". Supporters sent more than 60,000 tweets in the course of a swift, week-long push, convincing the social media behemoth to change its moderation policies.


A chorus rose against online misogyny. Criado-Perez highlighted the string of rape threats sent to her on Twitter, writer Lindy West published the comments she received, ("There is a group of rapists with over 9,000 penises coming for this fat bitch," read one), and the academic and broadcaster Mary Beard, Lauren Mayberry from the band Chvrches, and Ruby Tandoh from The Great British Bake Off, all spoke out on this issue. If you want to know how deeply some people resent the idea of women's advancement, the stream of online misogyny has been perhaps the most obvious, ugly backlash yet."

And

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22689522

[msanthrope]

41. Where, precisely, are you fighting sexism online? nt

[seaglass]

52. Wherever I want. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

30. "writing screeds?"

Interesting characterization to what was meant as a well-intentioned question.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Yeah, I caught that.

Anyway, I appreciate the thread.

[msanthrope]

42. Make no mistake...you posed an interesting, well-reasoned OP. My comment

is directed towards the insufferable offering of material to a subgroup of DU by a particular person.

[Le Taz Hot]

45. Sorry, absolutely no idea

of who/what you're referring to.

[msanthrope]

47. My post wasn't a reply to *you,* directly, was it? nt

[Le Taz Hot]

51. Actually, you were responding to my post.

I believe you had made reference to someone/something about writing "screeds." I thought the characterization was interesting, said so, and you responded by saying it wasn't "me" you were talking about but others. It sounded like a continuation of some other issue/occurrance of which I am not knowledgeable and I expressed that confusion.

Now, perhaps we can get back to the original issue.

[msanthrope]

55. No. Post #13 was not a reply to you. Look at the post info. nt

[cinnabonbon]

35. "check your privilege!"

Ahhh, this reminds me of my friends. Fourth wave for the win!

[marions ghost]

43. That's encouraging

--for other parts of the world at least.

But here in the US, I only see fatalism and apathy. Millennials are concerned about environment, government, injustice, civil rights--but they don't seem to see that all that is related to the status of women also.

Or maybe they do see it and are just overwhelmed. This generation doesnt have it easy IMO.

[redqueen]

46. No, you're right. We are plqying catch up

to the feminists in the UK on this.

But it is happening. And we have Nicki Minaj and Beyonce and all these other wonderful women either pointedly criticizing the unfair treatment of women or calling it out in interviews and young women are hearing it. We are approaching critical mass, I think. It is not the time to get nice and meek and quiet to appease a certain sect, if you get me... now is when we need to step on the gas and raise our voices even louder.

[hlthe2b]

10. Good post... I'd like to know the views on this as well....K&R

[JaneyVee]

11. There's a HUGE feminist movement currently underway.

[Le Taz Hot]

12. There is?

I'm not seeing it. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places and maybe I'm expecting out-of-date methodology, i.e., marches.

[msanthrope]

15. Yes...there is. You gotta get out more. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

22. I'm really hoping that wasn't snark.

[Sheldon Cooper]

26. Nah, it was snark.

[Le Taz Hot]

29. Oh well,

so much for serious discussion. (sigh)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. if by getting out more the poster meant getting off DU3 more then No, it wasn't snark. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

33. Which is really funny because if you look at

how long I've been on DU and what my post count is compared to others of the same time frame, I'm averaging about 1200 posts per YEAR.

I've always found it interesting when people assume they know what another poster does or does not do IRL. I'm an activist, I've always been and activist and I'll always be an activist. I also regularly share my activism on DU so if someone really wanted to know if I do or do not "get out more," the answer is there for those willing to find it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

37. exactly -

[msanthrope]

44. No..it wasn't snark. It's reality. You gotta get out to where the activism is...nt.

[Le Taz Hot]

48. Well, according to women who have reponded to this thread,

the "getting out" is seen to be as "getting out" via social media. As I do not engage in social media (I have my own reasons) and am much more familiar with and comfortable with in-person activism, I'll continue to engage in same as the opportunities come to me.

[SalviaBlue]

54. Where is that

if you don't mind my asking?

[ismnotwasm]

19. It's on-line, but also other places as well

Beyoncé just wrote a badass "gender equality is a myth essay"-- the importance of this can't be overstated no matter how someone might feel about Beyoncé; women of color are speaking out. And they have a powerful voice independent of white women.

Young woman have organizations like slutwalks and hollerback. There are dozens of Tumblers run by young feminists. Feminism in the skeptic and gamer arenas are speaking up and speaking out. The feminist Trans community is growing ( although ages may vary, the movement is new) look to the UK, Australia, I'm amazed at how many articles I find on young feminists there. Muslim women have a growing feminism presence powered by young women. I can find dozens of other examples


The last place to look unfortunately is here at DU. However, I wish you luck with this thread and hope you get your answer.

[Le Taz Hot]

23. Then I'm delighted to be wrong

in my original assumption and thank you for pointing out where the activism actually is.

[PasadenaTrudy]

14. Yes..

And why are hooker heels empowering? I'm a 2nd Wave feminist

[randome]

16. Ever since Sigourney strapped on a loader, women have been bad-asses in the movies.

Could that have something to do with it?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[lilithsrevenge12]

17. My perspective is that there are mixed messages.

While I agree reproductive rights are a huge problem, the younger generation associates feminism with oversensitivity. It is hard to take a group seriously when in one breath, they say they need to fight for abortion rights or equal pay, and in the next breath they are freaking out about a joke that was taken too far. Millennials are desensitized to certain things the older generation finds offensive. It is about picking and focusing on the battles that really matter.

Also, we have always had more rights than you guys. I think we take for granted what was accomplished, and what still needs to be accomplished, because we understand American women have more rights than ever.

I also think there is a new idea forming that women are there own worst enemy. Between all the reality tv and passive aggressive behavior we have towards each others success (many act like this, but not all), I think we are assisting sinking the ship. There is a lack of love and support among women, in my opinion.

What would start a movement? I honestly don't know. It is really hard to get my generation to focus, but getting people mad is always the first step.

[bettyellen]

18. Women have more rights than men? Please list them!!

I'd love to know what I have been missing out on.

[jeff47]

21. "Guys" does not always mean men.

On the West coast, "guys" is the equivalent of "y'all" in the South. It's used as a genderless plural. It appears she was using it in that way.

[bettyellen]

34. I say it too. But in discussions about gender, would think to avoid.

Tks for clarification!

[jeff47]

61. It's surprisingly difficult to avoid using

I moved from Los Angeles to North Carolina, and confused a lot of people by using "guys". Took quite a long time to stop using it - too easy to slip back into the language you grew up with.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. Thank you so much for responding.

The more responses here, the more I learn.

[The2ndWheel]

32. I may not be a woman, but I am curious when you say

getting people mad is the first step, do you mean getting people mad, or do you mean bringing people that are mad about a situation together?

To me, getting people mad isn't going to focus anything. That's emotion, and it can go in any direction. If you mean organizing people that are mad about whatever, and then focusing that anger, that's a movement.

Someone has to be mad to get mad. It's tough to force people to care about what you care about. That much more so if you specifically try to make them mad about it. Most of the time, and this is for any topic or issue, big or small, they'll tell you to go away and stop bothering them.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

38. getting mad as opposed to being apathetic ... or numb, even ... ?

[Squinch]

76. This is interesting. I think that the lack of reproductive choice, though the legislation is being

passed, is still theoretical for many young women. As those laws come to bear on young women's lives, and young women find themselves out in the cold, there will be a resurgence of women's rights activism among the young.

I am from the first generation of women who had reproductive choice. My older sisters were from the last generation that did not. It was horrible, and it affected every aspect of life. For those women who have no experience with how it was before, it is going to knock them for a loop.

And perhaps the older generations' memories of what it was like is what contributes to being vigilant and not accepting any shit, even when it is couched as a joke.

Young women have no idea what is coming at them. They have no idea what life is like when they don't control their own bodies. It will get very real, very fast, now.

As for this: "women are there own worst enemy. Between all the reality tv and passive aggressive behavior we have towards each others success (many act like this, but not all)... There is a lack of love and support among women, in my opinion" ... you need to get better friends.

[XemaSab]

39. I'm probably going to get pilloried for this

but there are always going to be women who enjoy the power that their sexuality has over men, and they fear that by getting on the "feminist" train, they will lose that power.

I think young women especially think that being hot is more important than being smart or useful, and there's a place for that, but there's also understanding that there's such a thing as attention for the wrong reasons, and allowing yourself to be treated as a strictly decorative object is not okay.

[redqueen]

40. Seems accurate enough to me.

Like you said, it's the "power over" someone that makes it attractive.

As more and more young women connect such illusory power to the negatives that come with it, they are realizing that it is a losing bargain for women.

[liberal_at_heart]

58. Speaking for my daughter I would say that young women want to be treated with

respect and have the freedom to dress as they want. This is one front where they are currently fighting. They fight the assumption that you have to dress a certain way to be respected. They believe they should be able to dress the way they want and be treated with respect and they are right. Just because we have taught them that they must dress a certain way to be treated with respected, they don't just take that as gospel. They dress the way they want to, and I think that is great. We assume that because they dress a certain way they are one dimensional which is a false assumption. Many young women who dress sexy are also very bright, intelligent, complex human beings. I know my daughter is. She is sexy and she is intelligent. She has many interests. She is majoring in biology so she can be a veterinarian and she is taking her 4th year of French just because she loves the language so much. She also plans on taking art classes while at college because she is very artistic.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

91. Wow. That's a pretty patronizing view of young women

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. My birth control is free, I can shake my tits on TV or enlist in the infantry. That's my bucket list

Just kidding, of course.

I think women my age don't see battles to be won but ground to be held and that in turn may lead to a sense of disconnect if an enemy doesn't appear imminent. Near as we can tell the men of our generation (the ones with whom we socialize, not the stodgey old cranks in GOP meeting halls) aren't looking to turn back the clock.

[TBF]

59. That is probably a good analysis -

being an older person myself (closer to 50 than I'd like to admit) I just shake my head at the things I see us losing since the 70s. Younger women likely see the facts that they can get into university, don't have as much societal pressure to marry, and more enlightened male peers as evidence that they are holding ground.

From my perspective, however, we still have issues with equal pay (which folks may be overlooking as they are so busy looking for any job at all), reproductive rights are being threatened, and the stodgy old crank GOPs you mentioned are front and center (like the Duck Dynasty guy).

I dunno, maybe the evidence of stodgy old republicans and the party in general upping their rhetoric against women is a simply a sign that they are floundering and losing ground. I hope it is that rather than younger women not being on their guard against losing gains we've made.

I also think some of this may vary greatly depending upon location. Maybe if I weren't sitting in the very red South I would feel more optimistic.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. I really hope this part is right =

I dunno, maybe the evidence of stodgy old republicans and the party in general upping their rhetoric against women is a simply a sign that they are floundering and losing ground.

Make It So.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

65. "we still have issues with equal pay"

But with Millenials we're all out of work so we're all equally broke.

So, at least we've got that going for us.

[Demo_Chris]

53. Perhaps they are not jumping into the trenches because they do not believe...

...That they are fighting the same war, or do not share the 'traditional' older activist's vision of what victory looks like.

Nor is it reasonable to expect them to do so. Everyone has the right to claim their own causes and to decide for themselves what they feel is important to them. They make these choices based largely upon their life experiences and the challenges and opportunities that they perceive.

But I am not a young woman and I do not know.

[loli phabay]

57. good post, i think there is def a generational thing in regards to the battles

what one subgroup of a generation thinks is the biggest battle may not register even in the slightest to other groups. females are no more a monolith than males or any subgroup thereof.

[Demo_Chris]

66. That was my thought, you said it better, so thanks. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

60. I think that young women are fighting the fight simply by living their lives the way they want.

You can't tell a young woman what to do anymore. They do what they want. My daughter is an atheist. She is a bisexual. She has purple hair. She wears leggings and high heels. She is not afraid to talk about her sex life. She took the initiative and went and got birth control. She is opinionated. She is strong. She is independent. I am so proud of her. She is going to college. She is learning art and french. She is majoring in biology so she can be a veterinarian. I'm not sure there is anything wrong with how our young women are fighting the fight. They are fighting the fight simply by living the way they want to live.

[jeff47]

63. Thread derail: On becoming a vet

She is majoring in biology so she can be a veterinarian.

I highly recommend trying to get a job as a vet tech before going all the way to vet school. I've known several people who wanted to be a vet until they "saw what it was really like". For example, my ex-wife became too attached to the very sick pets they eventually lost. Putting those animals down was too hard on her, so she decided to pursue another path.

We now return you to the thread in progress.

[Barack_America]

67. 1. Questioning whether it is possible to "have it all".

2. Realizing that there are gender differences, at least in the eyes of children, who tend to need "Mommy".
3. General dissatisfaction with career/professional life, with women having a more socially acceptable out than men (working sucks for pretty much everyone these days).
4. Being raised by women that maybe worked too much and wanting something different for their children.
5. Continued relaxation of gender roles takes away some of the fighting spirit (not being told "no" as much)
6. Basic survival is harder these days, leaving precious little time and energy to devote to the "cause".

Etc.

[liberal_at_heart]

72. agree with some of that, not with others. It is harder for everybody these days. Working

does suck for pretty much everybody, and not being told no as much does lessen the fighting spirit some. Don't agree that women can't have it all and that children need mommy any more than they need daddy. Children need both parents. Both genders have to balance success at work with being parents. We should not tell our girls that they shouldn't strive to be successful because it would make them bad mothers, and when the recession hit more dads started staying home with the kids. Mentality can change if we work to change it.

[Egalitarian Thug]

68. They don't understand how it was before, and more importantly, they don't believe

That it can all be taken away and that there is a very real, ongoing effort to do just that.

Erma Bombeck said it best, I think,

"We’ve got a generation now who were born with semiequality. They don’t know how it was before, so they think, this isn’t too bad. We’re working. We have our attache’ cases and our three piece suits. I get very disgusted with the younger generation of women. We had a torch to pass, and they are just sitting there. They don’t realize it can be taken away. Things are going to have to get worse before they join in fighting the battle."

[redqueen]

70. Thank you.

With all these teenagers being sexually harassed and raped and having their tormentors get a slap on the wrist (if that) seems to be making many young women reexamine the need for a strong, vibrant feminist movement.

And we have a generation of women who, if they bother to notice, are losing their right to reproductive freedom.

[PowerToThePeople]

69. I am not younger or a woman, but

imo the main reason is the MSM.

Paris Hilton
New Jersey Housewives
The Bachelor/Batchelorette
Hypersexualized music

and probably many more...

Heck, even Shark Tank. 1 female to how many males on that one? Certainly not representative of the overall population. Only men can be and are big time business people?

[redqueen]

71. Yes. That is what Jennifer Siebel Newsom exposed in her documentary, Miss Representation.

Geena Davis is also doing great work on this issue with her Institute on Gender in Media.

[PowerToThePeople]

77. Had never heard of that film

Some truths are so visible, even someone like me can see them....

http://film.missrepresentation.org/synopsis

Like drawing back a curtain to let bright light stream in, Miss Representation (87 min; TV-14 DL) uncovers a glaring reality we live with every day but fail to see. Written and directed by Jennifer Siebel Newsom, the film exposes how mainstream media contribute to the under-representation of women in positions of power and influence in America. The film challenges the media’s limited and often disparaging portrayals of women and girls, which make it difficult for women to achieve leadership positions and for the average woman to feel powerful herself.

In a society where media is the most persuasive force shaping cultural norms, the collective message that our young women and men overwhelmingly receive is that a woman’s value and power lie in her youth, beauty, and sexuality, and not in her capacity as a leader. While women have made great strides in leadership over the past few decades, the United States is still 90th in the world for women in national legislatures, women hold only 3% of clout positions in mainstream media, and 65% of women and girls have disordered eating behaviors.

Stories from teenage girls and provocative interviews with politicians, journalists, entertainers, activists and academics, like Condoleezza Rice, Nancy Pelosi, Katie Couric, Rachel Maddow, Margaret Cho, Rosario Dawson and Gloria Steinem build momentum as Miss Representation accumulates startling facts and statistics that will leave the audience shaken and armed with a new perspective.

[redqueen]

78. I was so excited when I saw it. I thought for sure it would be a watershed moment for women.

When that didn't happen it only made me commit to fighting even harder.

[MattBaggins]

74. I'm a 40 something male and this is not the best answer

but I liken it to the Labor movements and unions.

The younger groups take it for granted and are satisfied with what they have. Younger people don't see a need for Unions because they don't really think the rights secured for them can be taken away.

Complacency.

[KamaAina]

75. Pay attention to the vote suppression efforts against women in Texas.

Wendy Davis, the Dem who filibustered an anti-choice bill, is running for governor. So Texas repukes decided to require that voters' ID match their registration form exactly -- in effect, disenfranchising many married women.

Yes, we still need feminism.

[Boom Sound 416]

82. 2012 was the year of the woman

Their are more women than men in college, more in the workplace.

Shows like "Girls" and "Veep" are across the broadcast spectrum.

Women are lead primetime broadcasters across the ideological and sports spectrum

Woman are on football fields on all three nets that have football.

I'm not saying all things are equal, especially pay - yet, but certainly the movement has been strong in the 21st century.

[davidn3600]

83. Millennial women are more empowered than any previous generation

When you just look at Millennials, women earn 93% of the salaries their male peers make. Women also are earning nearly 60% of Bachelor degrees and are the breadwinner in 40% of households (compared to 1 in 25 in 1970). So the economic gender gap is closing.

A lot of young women today don't feel the level of sexism and discrimination that their mothers and grandmothers went through. There are still feminist issues, of course, but progress has been made and some complacency has set in.

[liberal_at_heart]

86. +1

[Lunacee_2013]

84. My POV:

We don't have to fight as hard as you did for our rights. Plus, the sexists out there have, over the years, made feminism unsexy and if there's anything out there that scares younger women more than being seen as unsexy, I haven't seen it. And apathy, a lot of apathy. Most young women are pro-choice, and want to be paid the same as their male counter-parts, but they just don't vote. They think the parties are too much alike, so there is no point in voting. A lot of young people think that.

The only way to help (that I've seen work) is to keep fighting. Keep speaking out against sexism wherever and whenever you see it. And offer to help others vote, that's what I'm doing. So help me God, I will get my friends, of all genders and colors, to vote if its the last thing I do!

[El_Johns]

87. There's nothing that scares younger women more than being seen as unsexy?

We've come a long way, baby....

[Lunacee_2013]

89. I was being a bit over the top there, but

I can remember talking to my friends (we're all under 30) about feminism and more than one of them asked me if feminists hated sex. Thankfully, that lead to a long discussion on porn and how you can be against exploiting others, or putting up with your partner going to strip clubs and the like, without being against all sex. (For the record, I don't think all naked pics are exploitive.) But yeah, some younger women are afraid of being seen as un-fun and dull.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

90. Younger women have more opportunity than women coming of age

In the 60's.

[LeftyMom]

92. ^Most of your replies haven't come from younger women.

This isn't terribly surprising because this website skews old, but it's also instructive. If you want to hear what younger women are saying, you have to listen to younger women where they are. Having done so I question your initial assumption that younger women reject feminism. Overwhelmingly the loudest voices getting information out there about state level assaults on women's rights, and the organizers of the pushback, have been younger feminists.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

95. I'm not a younger woman, but I think the answer is obvious: diminishing returns.

The more sexism there is around, the more people will be driven to support feminism.

There is significantly less sexism in the USA now than there was in the 70s or 80s, therefor there is significantly less energy behind feminism.

The less bad things get, the less people will care about improving them.

[renate]

96. my mom was a HUGE feminist, for which I adore, admire, and respect her

My dad too. When they got married more than 50 years ago, there were VERY different expectations of husbands' and wives' roles, and I admire him beyond words for going along with the changes in their relationship that her developing feminism created. He is absolutely awesome. I take his awesomeness as a given sometimes, but I appreciate the opportunity to remind myself that men who adjusted gracefully to the women's movement are phenomenal, so thank you.

I think the feminists of the '60s and '70s did such a fantastic job that young women today can't imagine the world as being any different. Of course women are full-fledged human beings--duh. Right? But not duh back then. It was basically unthinkable that women could ROUTINELY be on the Supreme Court or in the boardroom or in the doctor's office or any other place not in the secretarial pool. Now nobody blinks.

So I think it's like any other case in which, if a person isn't directly affected, a grievance is easy to dismiss. Like the millionaires in Congress blithely destroying millions of lives by cutting off unemployment benefits... they can't imagine a real-life situation in which $50 or $10 or $2 really, truly, literally means the difference between feeding one's children or having to let them go to bed hungry. They literally cannot imagine $100 being the difference between being able to pay the rent and allowed to stay in one's home another month or being evicted. It sounds like an exaggeration to them, and apparently until they intimately know somebody for whom it is not, it will just seem unreal.

It's probably nothing more than a failure of imagination. My kids can't imagine a world in which children had to read or entertain themselves without a screen. They just cannot imagine being plopped into the '70s with no VCRs, no DVDs, no DVRs, no computers or smart phones. I'm still of an age at which the use of a cell phone in an emergency on TV seems like a plot twist... look how lucky this person was that they could call 911 from their car... but it's reality now. The limitations of the past are kind of a pretend story to people born without them. It's not because they're evil, it's because of the society in which they grew up. It's as if we had to imagine being back in a world when a long-distance phone call (or a telegram, or a letter sent across the ocean months earlier) meant something horrible had happened instead of a friend calling or texting just to say hi.

So I think that in a way, feminists of the late 20th century should pride themselves on the way that 21st century feminism doesn't have the same sense of urgency. It's a sign of a job well done and a sign that what they have done is firmly inculcated into modern Western society. (Which isn't to say "oh well" but just to say that it's a real accomplishment for which later generations either are, or should be, profoundly grateful... I know I am.)

[Le Taz Hot]

97. Well, I must say I found a treasure trove

worth of information on this thread. SO many different perspectives of which I was completely unaware, including that *I* am the one not tuned into the empowerment movement being displayed by younger women and artists (I believe Beyoncé was mentioned). There's apparently an awful lot of activism going on via social media as well and since I choose not to engage in social media (I have my own reasons), I've missed that part and that's a shame on me. (Though I'm still going to decline to be a part of the social media scene.)

Young women ARE enjoying the freedoms we fought for but they seem to also be aware of their rights being threatened by the likes of GOP knuckldraggers attempting to take away our freedom of choice over our own reproductive lives. I hope more choose to be activists.

I'm also alarmed that so many young women think "feminists" means un-sexy or that we hate men and we hate sex. We were children of the 60's and 70's and enjoyed the HELL out of the sexual revolution, so I can assure each and every one of them, we definitely DO NOT hate sex. Having said that, I KNOW where they got that idea -- thanks to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and the media's silence on the subjects.

Overall, I have to say I am delighted to have been wrong in my original assumption that young women don't care about women's issues. I was just looking in the wrong places.

Thanks SO MUCH for all those who participated. I think we can all learn something from this thread.

[redqueen]

100. Men on DU have also used the 'you/they just hate sex' canard nt

[theHandpuppet]

101. Great thread and very enlightening

Thanks to all who posted and to Le Taz for getting this discussion going.

[seaglass]

103. There have also been strides forward with reproductive rights/women's health within the last 5-10

years that has a direct impact on young women. The day after pill is widely available, bc pills are now without charge (at least with our insurance) and the HPV vaccine has become available and promoted. My daughter is 24 and I would guess that she would find it hard to accept that all this could be taken away by a few rw nuts.

[Eleanors38]

98. Kicking. Let YOUNG WOMEN SPEAK! The rest of the older farts

men & women back out and watch. Signing off...

[Ms. Toad]

107. Had a conversation with my daughter the other day -

(early 20s) The word feminism puts her off, and she thinks that men are equally oppressed by gender norming, so we should find a different word that doesn't exclude men.

Partly that is just ignorance (she really hasn't encountered blatant sexism yet - partly because she has far bigger issues in her own life), and partly it is a different perspective on the impact of oppression. She (and more of her generation - or at least the progressive types she tends to run with) are more focused on emotional health than financial health. She sees guys who more closely fit female gender norms being less free to do that than women who more closely fit the tomboy mold.

What she doesn't see is that the reason there is more expressed prejudice at being gender non-conformative for males is because that for many men (not always consciously), women are inferior. Women expressing more traditionally masculine traits is at least striving to move up in the world, whereas a man adopting a more feminine presentation is moving down - and that dynamic is still part and parcel of women being valued less than men.

So - I don't know what she wants (question 3), but I'm talking with her about what I have (and still do) experience in my traditionally male job, and about the bigger perspective - about why what she is accurately observing is still where feminism needs to play a role in pointing out why that strong discouragement for her male friends wearing high heels, or wanting to work in more traditionally female jobs still happens.

[laundry_queen]

108. Not really younger

I'm in my late 30's so I'll just post what I've observed in my oldest daughter.

She is turning out to be a hard core feminist - as in starting to join in on activism (she's already a LGBT activist so it comes naturally to her). Her and her friends, I think, had their eyes opened by the teen girls that committed suicide due to the harassment they received online after sexual assaults. They are well aware of how bad it is out there due to social media - they see the disgusting comments made, sexism on display, the 'rape culture' and so on. They are organizing, but I think it's just getting started. I think you will see more from them in the coming years.

When I was her age, feminism was the last thing I cared about. It was seen as a dirty word by my parents and I was ignorant about it. I just didn't know any better, I didn't understand the history and I didn't see the sexism around me, because it was 'normal'. Just like I didn't see how I was raised in an emotionally abusive environment, because it was my normal. When I moved out, my views changed radically. I think there was a huge lull in the world of feminism when I was growing up, and I think that lull is over now with what I see with my kids. When I was younger, the worst offenders were able to 'cover it up' and so you didn't know how bad it was, but now, it's all over the internet and you can't really deny it. Young women see it and are doing something about it. I think feminism is in a better position now than it was 20 years ago.

[Neoma]

109. Well...sometimes it's a lonely world.

It seems like I can't do much on my end. I don't know enough people, I don't think there's a feminist club in my college... I don't trust my representatives because they're all republicans, and no one has gone around asking me to help them combat assholery. Even if I were to start some sort of activism against these stupid laws, I don't know enough about laws or how the political system works to really bite them in the ass. I don't have anyone directing me anywhere. I'm also already leading a different activism club, but it's more about educating people in the college rather than actively delving into the politics of it by going outside of the school to do something with our purpose...


Please note however, I can't speak for my generation in its entirety.