Raw Story: Fox’s Elisabeth Hasselbeck: Are male-wussifying feminists a national security problem?

[geardaddy]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/17/foxs-elisabeth-hasselbeck-are-male-wussifying-feminists-a-national-security-problem/

W in TF?

-snip-

Men are being oppressed by women, and it is now a threat to the national security of the United States, according to a conservative author who appeared Thursday morning on Fox & Friends.

In his new book, Australian author Nick Adams alleges that “male culture” and men themselves have been systematically “called in to question” by the government and feminists.

He told Fox News hosts Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Clayton Morris that men were on the decline around the world. “Even in Australia, we’ve gone from wrestling with crocodiles to wrestling with lattes,” he lamented.


Adams claimed that the feminist movement had delivered “angry women and feminine men.” He said women attacked men because they falsely believed that men prevented them from obtaining their goals.

“It’s a very hard time to be a man in today’s society,” he remarked.

Things have gotten so bad that men now feel uncomfortable making their own decisions, Adams alleged.

more at link.

[Sheldon Cooper]

1. Hey, Nick! I'm playing your song:

[geardaddy]

6. Nice!

[Initech]

105. Perfect!

[polichick]

2. Yeah, because there are only two choices: bully or wuss.

[geardaddy]

3. Zactly...

[Katashi_itto]

10. Repukes think in Binary. Black or white, light or dark

[polichick]

18. And they can't connect more than two dots either.

[Katashi_itto]

24. True!

[JI7]

59. and being one doesn't mean you can't be the other

[Berlum]

4. What a weenie (R)

Poor dude has a pathetically shallow soul, and a mush brain full of degenerate Republicon "ideas."

[geardaddy]

7. Yep.

He's so oppressed.

[hrmjustin]

5. Oh Lord!

[RainDog]

8. LOL.

[geardaddy]

11. Ermergerd!

I need to steal that!

[Dawson Leery]

9. No, but football players who get away with rape are.

[geardaddy]

13. Yes.

Love your sig line, btw.

[Dawson Leery]

25. Thank you.

Many in the country genre promote a stereotypical primitive way of living (at least for men).

[Ilsa]

91. Maybe Elizabeth should go party with them. nt

[Dash87]

12. White men have it so tough!

[geardaddy]

15. Oh I know!

[quinnox]

14. Well, in my opinion there is nothing wrong

with manliness, or being more of a macho type guy. A man's man, like some Hollywood stars, mostly older, have represented.

[geardaddy]

16. I think you might have missed the point.

He's saying men are being oppressed by women.

[Dash87]

22. That's fine, but men shouldn't be forced to be a "man's man" either.

Being a "man's man" shouldn't be an ideal image for men, with all others looked down upon. There should be no ideal image for men or women.

[AgingAmerican]

29. The ideal will always be alpha

nt

[KitSileya]

38. What? Are you saying men are wolves,

rather than human beings?

[AgingAmerican]

46. No

nt

[KitSileya]

113. Because this belief that humans are nothing more than animals,

or 'mammals', is ridiculous. The reason why we have achieved everything we have is because humans can go beyond that. I expect more of every human. Women don't mindlessly chase 'forceful' men, they don't bare their necks for 'alpha males' - and anyone who claim that can go worship at the altar of Ayn Rand and opt out of society - please, for everyone else's sake.

Saying that animal instincts rule humans would negate our whole justice system, our welfare systems, all the things we've built by co-operation, and all the things we're changing in our societies directly to counteract the 'survival of the strongest' mentality, from slavery to child abuse to the killing of the disabled. We can transcend our 'animal instincts', but everyone that buys into that MRA PUA poppycock is working against everything we on this progressive, Democratic board are working towards, so they shouldn't be very welcome here.

[Dash87]

39. There is no such thing as an alpha male in humans.

[AgingAmerican]

45. Yes there is

And women seek them out.

[geek tragedy]

53. so, your position is that women behave pretty much llike dogs and wolves

when it comes to choosing a mate?

[AgingAmerican]

55. Humans are social mammals

Humans behave like mammals, because we are mammals.

[geek tragedy]

60. Other than a bunch of pseudo-scientific MRA talking points, do you have any

evidence to support your broad-based claim that women chase after violent, dominant men?

[AgingAmerican]

63. You are in deep, deep denial of basic human nature

You attempt to deflect it by saying, "Right wing talking points" or "MRA talking points" but you are still wrong and you know it.

Heterosexual women prefer alpha males, they always have, they always will, and you cannot show any evidence to the contrary because none exists.

[MadrasT]

93. I exist.

Heterosexual female who deplores "alpha" males.

Hypothesis fail

Thanks for playing

[Hell Hath No Fury]

99. Another one right here -

I have a visceral reaction against hyper-masculine alpha males. Total turnoff. Bleck.

[AgingAmerican]

106. What about non-hyper masculine alpha males?

What about quiet, confident, self assured alpha male types who let their actions do the talking and are natural leaders?

Not all alpha males are of the cartoonish, neanderthal type.

[Dash87]

109. What you're referring to is actually a personality type.

One might be tempted to compare it to an alpha male, but the comparison is still incorrect.

One also does not need to be quiet, confident, and self-assured to be a leader. If the definition for an alpha male is so broad, then the term begins to encompass more people than it should. What about a person who has no confidence, and yet still finds themselves in leadership roles because they're just good at it and people look up to them?

Humans don't have the alpha-male dynamics: Physical strength is mostly a useless trait, there is no physical challenging that determines one's place in society, and there are too many ways to become more socially acceptable in that the term "alpha male" becomes useless.

[AgingAmerican]

100. There are always exceptions

There are also more than one type of alpha. Some are quiet, self assured and self confident with leadership qualities who let their actions do the talking.

Others are domineering assholes.

[Matariki]

134. +1

same here

[Ilsa]

87. Some women do.

A former friend was like that.

[Le Taz Hot]

80. Yes, because each and every one of us

are attracted to EXACTLY the same type of male. Holy shit, guy, did you make a wrong turn?

[AgingAmerican]

85. This guy might be able to explain it better....

[Le Taz Hot]

92. There have been times I haven't caught

the irony on this board. I'm assuming this is one of those times.

[AgingAmerican]

95. lol

nt

[Le Taz Hot]

96. . . .

[bettyellen]

81. If I wasn't convinced this is a bizarre performance, I would feel sorry for you.

Did time stop for you in '52 or something?

[AgingAmerican]

83. So, the fact that alpha males exist...

.... is 1952 stuff?

[bettyellen]

89. Yes, that cult of machismo died about 40 years ago in the big cities, LOL. Are there some parts

of the country where people still worship those obnoxious bossy dude-bros? LOL, that is quaint.

[AgingAmerican]

94. You have a cartoonish view of what an alpha male is

Machismo is phony and not an alpha trait, though many of them do tend to be assholes. Alphas tend to be self confident and exhibit leadership qualities, and don't need to pretend. Many women are alphas also.

[geek tragedy]

98. so your claim is that women are attracted to the type of person who has a personality

that makes people like and respect them.

deep, bro, deep

[AgingAmerican]

101. No, that is not my 'claim'

Again, you are wrong.

[Dash87]

108. Negative, Captain

That's a simplistic and demonstrably incorrect view of attraction. That's like saying "women only care about guys with money," or "women only like jerks." Both are true and untrue - if you asked 1000 women what they're attracted to, you will get 1000 different answers.

The alpha male does not exist in human relations. There are strong personalities and those who wish to dominate others, but they aren't alpha males. If anything, strong and dominating personalities are seen as a negative trait. All of the qualities of an "alpha male" found in the wild would be useless for a human.

[Egalitarian Thug]

116. No you fool, it's our precious bodily fluids that they seek to take from us.

or

[treestar]

126. No they don't

Most straight men end up married to a woman. We don't wait until we find John Wayne. Some of us do not want to be bossed around by that type.

[Matariki]

135. Why do you tell yourself that myth?

Do you believe yourself to be an "alpha male"? Or do you use that idea as an excuse for dating problems?

[AgingAmerican]

138. No

...and no.

[geek tragedy]

42. let me rephrase that for you to make it more acccurate:

my personal ideal will always be alpha

you're welcome

[AgingAmerican]

44. Nope

It's the ideal held by most heterosexual women.

You can try to make it about me, but it isn't.

[geek tragedy]

47. lol wut? I love it when a man appoints himself as the authority on

what women think.

[AgingAmerican]

50. Show otherwise

Show evidence that heterosexual women are not attracted to alpha males.

Thanks in advance.

[geek tragedy]

52. I'm not the one who appointed himself as the spokesman for heterosexual women.

I'm making no claims whatsoever.

You're the one peddling outdated rightwing stereotypes.

[AgingAmerican]

58. So you can't show any

...evidence to the contrary. You are in deep, deep denial of basic human nature.

[geek tragedy]

64. You're not talking about human nature, you're just peddling sexist/misogynist

patriarchal bullshit that you pulled out of your ass.

[AgingAmerican]

65. No evidence forthcoming

nt

[geek tragedy]

67. just out of curiousity, how do you define 'alpha male?' nt

[AgingAmerican]

68. You could always google it

It isn't a big secret.

alpha male
n
1. (Zoology) the dominant male animal or person in a group
2. (Sociology) the dominant male animal or person in a group

[geek tragedy]

70. What does 'dominant' mean in human society?

Rich? Aggressive? Charismatic? Violent? Authoritarian? Popular? Physical strength? 'Masculine' features? Big muscles? Machismo?

[AgingAmerican]

74. Google it

...then you will know.

http://www.takeninhand.com/alpha.males.and.the.women.who.love.them

[geek tragedy]

76. so you don't have any idea what 'dominant' means then? nt

[JI7]

77. Brit Hume claimed Chris Christie was a manly, Macho, Muscular Man

so maybe Chris Christie is the "alpha male" ideal that most women go for ????????????????

[AgingAmerican]

90. Chris Christie is a domineering jerk so....

...I would say, yes, he is probably an alpha male. He is also about the ugliest mo-fo I have ever seen. I will never understand what women see in men like him.

[geek tragedy]

103. which is it? If he's an alpha male, then you've told us that heterosexual women

will be lining up to get a chance to be his mate.

But now you're telling us you can't explain the attraction?

[AgingAmerican]

104. I will never understand what makes women

attracted to alpha male jerks like him. I will never understand why women are attracted to men, period.

Apparently you never will either.

[Paladin]

132. Hey, I thought you had all this stuff figured out.

You damn sure seemed to represent yourself as an authority on it, earlier......

[treestar]

127. Yea, love me some Chris!

A real he-man, right! Every woman's dream!

I love it when men tell us what we find attractive! I mean, who would go for Obama or Biden when there's Cheney and Christie. Or Mittens! All that money! Must mean he's a alpha! McCain! All those houses! So rich! How envious we are of Cindy!

[AgingAmerican]

79. Apparently

You have no interest in understanding basic human nature. Soooooo...

Have a nice day!

[Dash87]

111. Check the "About" section...

"Welcome to Taken In Hand, a website about wholehearted sexually-exclusive marriages in which the husband wears the trousers and is firmly in charge (to his wife's delight!)—and he always puts his wife and their relationship first. Putting her and the relationship first is the key to creating a marriage in which the man is in control in a good, healthy and sustainable way. Taken In Hand wives tend not to claim to be submissive (though their husbands may well consider them to be so) but they do respect, honour and appreciate their husbands and strive to please them."

wtf...

[KitSileya]

115. I guess excoriating women when they post something from a conservative source is ok,

but when men do the same, we should give them a pass. Because advocating for submissiveness in women is just the natural order of things, but being against violent porn and how they portray women is an affront to humanity.

After reading these sub-threads, I can only shake my head and - their post to mine didn't seem to indicate such a level of MRA talking points and alpha male idiocy.

[arcane1]

88. Where is your evidence?

This non-alpha male has never had any trouble attracting mates.

[AgingAmerican]

97. Most heterosexual women end up with non alpha males

There are alpha males, beta males and probably 1000 variations in between. Most men probably fall somewhere those 1000+ types between the two.

Welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of humans!

[JI7]

66. what does that even mean ? there are all types of couples out there

[AgingAmerican]

75. Of course there are

nt

[politicman]

107. description of alpha male.

You cannot deny that many, many women prefer men who are alpha males.

Alpha males are self-assured, confident and can take charge in certain situations.

An alpha male is the one that walks into a room and commands it without even trying. An alpha male is the one that is decisive and can make decisions that affect him and potential partner.


Violence and control are traits that can be applied to some alpha males, but those are not that attractive traits that women seek in men, the above are.

[eridani]

128. I'm not. I don't find sociopathology sexually (or any other way) attractive n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

86. Every child develops their own ideals.

I wouldn't say that my dad was my ideal, but in retrospect, he was exemplary of many admirable traits including the willingness to stand and deliver, even if he was standing alone.

I'm not insulted by being called a real man. I have my own ideas of what that means, all of them good.

[JI7]

57. no surprise

[lumberjack_jeff]

82. Little girls and little boys should be free to grow up into whatever they want.

Even into men, if they wish.

Stories like that shown in the OP shows up on Fox TV for the same reasons that stories about heinous and horrific torture and abuse is described as "a male passtime" here on DU. In fact that post is the OP with which more DU'ers agree than any in recent memory.

Gender has been politicized, and I frankly think that the left is largely to blame for it.

This politicization seems, superficially, like a good idea when you consider that 54% of voters are women, until you realize that when women marry they begin to vote more like their husbands (and as proxies for their sons) than like single women do.

[underpants]

17. This is just a new standard RW talking point

At least once a week every talk radio host will touch on this "issue".

Truly it is just another "WE ARE UNDER ATTACK!!" load of BS based on paranoia. That and the are prepping the battlefield for Hillary's run.

[Ikonoklast]

31. ...and Bingo! was his name-O!

"No Real Man would let some female president tell him what to do!"

[underpants]

33. That last part just hit me while I was typing the post

Now it all makes sense

[pscot]

19. Right wing idiots

are a national security problem.

[geardaddy]

21. Zing!

Agreed.

[Amaril]

20. Well, they need something.......

....to keep them occupied -- "them" being Fox News and their denizens of nonsense -- now that the "War on Christmas!!1!1" season is over.

[liberal N proud]

23. FOX needs something to fill those voids in the heads of their hosts

[pinboy3niner]

26. OMG!

[geardaddy]

28. Nice!

[Contrary1]

27. And what was free-thinker Elisabeth's intelligent take on all this?

Oh...wait.

[Ikonoklast]

32. She was deep in thought...

[ceeRoy]

30. WOW!!!

Everyone is jumping on the wagon of the Brit Hume/Limpbags theorem...interesting!

[shenmue]

34. Another proud graduate of the University of Duh

[liberal_at_heart]

35. I'd like to personally thank her and her husband for getting the hell out of Seattle.

Go Russel Wilson and Go Seahawks!

[opiate69]

41. Her husband was never in Seattle...

She's married to Tim, not Matt. But, I'll second your go Hawks!

[Zorra]

36. More insecure conservative weenbags threatened by teh deadly femmorists, who are secretly

plotting, along with teh gays, to destroy the American family.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. False patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels

If you've run out of all other arguments for why you're a male chauvinist pig, claim that it's vital for national security.

[Shandris]

40. ...

...

[frylock]

43. poor little thing

[pinboy3niner]

48. Ermahgerd...

[Kurovski]

49. If it's on FOX, then you know that this is what the powers-that-be

want us to consider a major threat. (screw TPP, economic anarchy, dissolving election rights, etc.)

Feminists.

Everything old is new again. Poor old Lizzy H just ain't satisfied with all the wars, rapes and murders in the world. She wants us to "tuffin' up"

It's interesting to note how--all across the internet--we see how the Koch factions (I'll call them) are racing around trying to stir up division . It seems now that racism and homophobia are not enough to turn us all against each other, the PTB (power-that-be) have to turn man against woman, woman against man to get some real diversion going.

[Rex]

51. SO which gender is it that is forcing 12 inch probes up inside the other gender?

GEE I FORGET!

[Boomerproud]

54. Didn't Brit Hume say the same thing the other day?

That's their meme this week on Faux.

[JI7]

78. yup, and Chris Christie was his example of the more "Manly MAn" as opposed to the "wussified feminst

guys.

[ladywnch]

56. I don't know....are ignorant blonde bimbos a national security problem?.....Liz?????????? n/t

[HockeyMom]

62. You beat me to that one

[JI7]

61. thank GAWD we still have some tough macho manly men around

like this one

[SamKnause]

69. Oh MY !!!!

Are you trying to give me nightmares ?

[Kurovski]

71. "Sleeping double in a single bed".

[Le Taz Hot]

84. Oh, jesus!

My eyes!!! And the amazing thing? He actually thinks he looks good. Gack!

[treestar]

129. a pin up poster!

I bet he's really a tough guy! Look what a great protector he is! The women are probably fighting each other tooth and nail for him!

[SamKnause]

72. Men

If you are not swilling an Old Milwaukee, with an AK 47 slung over your shoulder, wearing a Confederate shirt, and a cross to show you love "Jesus", you are an outcast to the lunatic fringe Tea Party.

[Tikki]

73. Okay lady, the person who was suppose to stay and help my son raise their son walked when the baby..

was a year old…so yeah he wears an apron while cooking dinner and changed diapers and
took him on play dates and volunteers in his classroom and cleans the house and does the laundry
and calls the doctor and sometimes he stops before or after working a regular day at the office to grab a coffee.

SHUT UP you stupid woman and that morris man who dragged you into the spotlight by the hair.


Tikki

[Skittles]

102. they might actually entertain us as they swirl down the bowl

yes INDEED

[RainDog]

110. They're putting out this meme ahead of an expected Hillary presidency

We can expect to see lots and lots of this sort of crap more and more often.

They're so desperate.

[Tom Ripley]

112. Nick Adams. What a waste of a good name.

[Egalitarian Thug]

114. Are there any conservative men that are not latent homosexuals fighting their inner selves?

[KitSileya]

117. I think these men can be horrible human beings without being self-hating gays.

I can't speak for the LGBTIA members of DU, but I don't like it when homophobic conservatives are automatically labelled homosexuals who hate themselves. Straight men can be (and are!) awful bigots and homophobes just as much as men and women of every other sexual orientation can be assholes (pardon my French) - only straight conservative men have very convenient targets to use when they feel threatened or need to feel powerful, and in our society, they hardly have to fear any repercussions for bashing gays and other minorities.

[Egalitarian Thug]

118. I am a middle aged man. I've met many thousands of people in my life.

I've never yet any man that actually gives a fuck whether another man likes sex with men, that wasn't deep in denial. Never, not once.

Straight men under the age of about 50 just don't give a shit.

[KitSileya]

119. So, let me see if I understand correctly.

You are saying that homophobia is something gay men do to themselves? Or at least that a major force in homophobia is gay men who are in denial? And that every guy under 50 who is homophobic is definitely gay?

[Egalitarian Thug]

120. No, you don't understand at all. Let's see if I can help you.

Are you gay? Are you a man?

[KitSileya]

121. No, neither.

[Egalitarian Thug]

122. People are born with sexual preferences, society/religion screws with those programmed preferences,

but it cannot/does not change or eliminate them. In our "modern society" about the only thing worse than being gay is being a woman, and almost every little boy gets that even before pre-school. I imagine it's much the same for little girls.

How do little kids deal with feelings that they know (have been told by everybody) are "bad or wrong"?

Extrapolate that through an American adolescence and into adulthood. Can you seriously look at or listen to Randall Terry (or any of those profoundly sick people) without your gaydar pegging? Just go through your own internal list of gay haters.

Maybe it's because I was raised in an extraordinarily open environment for the times, and that virtually all of my male friends and role models growing up were gay, and I didn't get the messages about how awful "teh gay" was until after it was too late, but it has always been perfectly clear to me that people are born within some range on the sexuality scale and all the rest is imposed from outside. Believe me, if there was any validity to the supposition that external factors can turn people one way or the other, I'd be a West Hollywood Icon today.

[KitSileya]

123. I still don't see how that would make all conservative men latent homosexuals.

Even if it is as you say, that societal hatred of homosexuals causes many/all little boys who aren't perfect 0 on the Kinsey scale to start hating the 'deviancy' in themselves, it doesn't then correlate that everyone that hates the 'deviancy' does it because they are gay themselves. (Note that I do not think homosexuality is a deviancy.) But you asked whether there were any conservative men that weren't latent homosexuals (and I read that as a semi-rhetorical question, and that you meant that there weren't.) You also said that you had never met a straight man who cared about men having sex with men, again with the conclusion that only men who want to sleep with men and were suppressing it cared about homosexual sex enough to "give a fuck," i.e., to care enough to be homophobic about it.

[Egalitarian Thug]

124. OK, you don't want to converse, so how about you name some of these

homophobic straight men that you feel are homophobic for some other, unnamed reason?

While you're at it, let's hear some of these reasons.

[KitSileya]

131. I thought conversing was exactly what we were doing?

As for what can cause homophobia other than gay self-hatred, how about fear of those who are different? Conservatism is also about making sure everyone conforms, and in a majority heterosexual society, gays are the minority. Or in some cases it doesn't even have to be about homosexuality per se, but that they are a convenient punching bag when an asshole wants to feel superior, or to cement his own place in an organisation that is against homosexuality.

[Egalitarian Thug]

133. First, I apologize I was in full DU mode. I don't think the fear of the other can account for

what we're talking about. This is deep seated and ubiquitous in every culture that is dominated by the Big Three religions, and the more repressive the adherence to the respective religion, the more severely homosexuals are punished for being who they are.

The conservative bent toward forced conformity and obedience are certainly factors, but when we look at cases where even in cultures that are more accepting of human variables, including sexuality, the most vocal and adamant objections to simply letting gays be gay are propelled almost exclusively by men that obviously have personal issues with the topic. One of the best water-cooler-comebacks on this topic is to ask, "So, what age were you when you decided that you were straight?". All the gay men I've known, including or maybe especially, the ones that are married, have kids and so on knew they were attracted to to other men long before they were of an age to do anything about it, IOW, it wasn't necessarily sexual, Some guys I know have never for a moment been attracted to women sexually, others discovered or re-discovered it later on, and more than a few people live out their lives denying themselves.

It's definitely fear that motivates them, I just think it is the fear that the unrestrained inner-self would be too revealing for the carefully constructed self image to handle. And don't forget that this attitude is not exclusive to either party, there are plenty of homophobic Democrats voting and running all over America.

Anyway, with seven billion plus people on the planet, I'm sure that somewhere there is a guy that is totally straight and still hates gays, but he's not the norm at all, and I've never seen nor heard him.

[treestar]

125. The national security of Australia?

Not a big problem, as that nation does not interfere in the middle east or the Third World. Maybe occasionally to back the U.S.

Nothing stops him from wrestling as many crocodiles as he pleases. Steve Irwin was plenty macho.

But what has it to do with national security?

[Botany]

130. He is a con man and a hustler .... 2 minutes w/the google shows that to be true

http://www.nickadamsinamerica.com/

BTW i had never heard of Nick Adams till I saw this posting.

[Initech]

136. Reminds me of a scene from 30 Rock :

Tracy and Jenna are arguing about whether women or black men have it harder in today's society:

Jack: I'll tell you who has it harder in society: white males, we make the unpopular decisions that make everyone else's lives miserable.
Kenneth: Well as a white male, I respectfully disagree.
Jack : No Kenneth, socially and economically speaking your personality paints you as an inner city Latina female.

[mstinamotorcity2]

137. Maybe someone should tell him that just because

you are born with a penis and testicles, doesn't necessarily make you a man or male for that fact.