Study Finds Turmeric Extract Equal to Prozac for Serious Depression

[TalkingDog]

And if you consider the lack of side effects, one might be tempted to say "better than".

A small sample size, but with promising results.

It's too bad really. Now they'll start trying to regulate Curry as a medicine.



Efficacy and Safety of Curcumin in Major Depressive Disorder: A Randomized Controlled Trial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23832433

Abstract

Curcumin, an active ingredient of Curcuma longa Linn (Zingiberaceae), has shown potential antidepressant-like activity in animal studies. The objectives of this trial were to compare the efficacy and safety of curcumin with fluoxetine in patients with major depressive disorder (MDD). Herein, 60 patients diagnosed with MDD were randomized in a 1:1:1 ratio for six weeks observer-masked treatment with fluoxetine (20 mg) and curcumin (1000 mg) individually or their combination. The primary efficacy variable was response rates according to Hamilton Depression Rating Scale, 17-item version (HAM-D17 ). The secondary efficacy variable was the mean change in HAM-D17 score after six weeks. We observed that curcumin was well tolerated by all the patients. The proportion of responders as measured by the HAM-D17 scale was higher in the combination group (77.8%) than in the fluoxetine (64.7%) and the curcumin (62.5%) groups; however, these data were not statistically significant (P = 0.58). Interestingly, the mean change in HAM-D17 score at the end of six weeks was comparable in all three groups (P = 0.77). This study provides first clinical evidence that curcumin may be used as an effective and safe modality for treatment in patients with MDD without concurrent suicidal ideation or other psychotic disorders.

[quinnox]

1. wow, that is something. I just saw Tumeric in the herbs section today, but it was

relatively expensive. $24 for one bottle of capsules. But this is very interesting nonetheless.

edited - Thanks for the advice! I'll look into it.

[LiberalEsto]

2. Go to your nearest Indian grocer

You can buy bags of turmeric and other spices at very low prices at these ethnic places.

[notemason]

17. Local sources

As a spice just under $5 at local grocery store. Very nutritious. I apply generously to beans.

[riversedge]

26. my sweet pickle recipe calls for tumerac It really

does make them good.

[William769]

51. The Library would be a great place to look up that information.

[hrmjustin]

52. I agree that libraries are great places.

[hrmjustin]

66. She is such a child.

[JCMach1]

62. Or not, you might risk lead contamination from Tumeric... which is most likely worse

than depression

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/10/23/fda-cracks-down-on-imported-spices-after-turmeric-tests-positive-for-lead/

[LiberalEsto]

64. What if there's lead in the turmeric sold in supermarkets or online?

It's impossible to know which brand is safe and which isn't.

[JCMach1]

108. Part of the trouble... there is too much coming into the country to test properly

certainly without heavily increasing inspection budgets (Repugs would NEVER EVER let that happen)...

I bought the roots one time in the UAE and tried grinding myself... UGGG tumeric is like CONCRETE... you can do it, but it is a MAJOR pain... that's why metals get in milling process.

[awoke_in_2003]

77. ethnic markets...

are great places for all spices. The bottled stuff is junk and overpriced.

[icymist]

4. Find it in bulk

Very cheap that way.

[TalkingDog]

6. In addition to the other fine suggestions above, you can also tincture it to make your own extract.

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-an-Herbal-Tincture

You can get a years worth of tinctures out of 4 tablespoons of tumeric, a wine bottle and a liter of vodka.

[druidity33]

96. Isn't that a little "woo-ish"? Awfully close to...

HOMEOPATHY! dum de dum dum.



I made a tincture of Galium Aparine (cleavers) a few years ago and it helped get rid of some seriously swollen lymph glands, so i'm a believer. But during the woo wars, i wondered where tinctures would fall.

[progressoid]

99. Actually that would be the opposite, woo notwithstanding.

A tincture tends to be concentrated.

Homeopathic solutions are diluted. Sometimes as much as one part per trillion. In homeopathy, a solution that is more dilute is described as having a higher potency, and more dilute substances are considered by homeopaths to be stronger and deeper-acting remedies. The end product is often so diluted as to be indistinguishable from the dilutant (pure water, sugar or alcohol).

[druidity33]

101. But it wasn't prepared by a pharmacist!

You can't measure the strength! It could be toxic! How do you know you picked the right plant?!

(i've personally heard these before btw) Recently i've been reading wild foraging books and Samuel Thayer has an interesting refutation of the book Into the Wild's premise that the main character died from misidentifying a plant.

Sorry, i should've included a sarcasm thingy in my last post...

[progressoid]

106. Probably would have helped if I had more than three hours of sleep too.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

104. If I had a bottle of wine and a liter of vodka, ...

... then, wait, what were we talking about?

Getting happy?

[movonne]

33. but probable cheaper than the prescriptions..today everything is expensive...

[MADem]

55. You can buy it for next to nothing at an "Asian" food store.

We used to buy it for pennies a scoop in the bazaar.

Anyone paying a bundle is getting ripped off. Even on Amazon where the prices aren't the best you can get it cheaply in bulk.

Jesus, no wonder I'm so frigging happy--we use it a lot!

[DeadLetterOffice]

68. The study didn't use turmeric.

From the article:

The concern with the use of curcumin is its low bioavailability. The product we have used in our study had curcuminoids and volatile oils added to it, increasing its retention time and bioavailability by seven times.

So even if the study had a large enough sample size to draw conclusions from, popping turmeric capsules isn't gonna get you what these study subjects took.

[JaneyVee]

3. Uh-oh. This may set off the woo threads again.

[icymist]

5. Fear of Indian spices cause Woo concerns!

LOL!

[loudsue]

8. Yep. We all know that scientific studies don't count unless they're done by the drug companies

The woo sayers will show up in three.......two.......one.....

[villager]

12. And that is exactly the point for the lapdog corporate mouthpieces...

...who do their shilling on this site.

It's only "science" for them if it has a predetermined outcome, supporting a conclusion they've already made. Exactly the thing they try to project onto others.

[whatchamacallit]

18. +1 n/t

[Squinch]

83. Well, obviously that's because if it doesn't make money for drug companies, it is by definition woo.

According to some. Even, dare I say it, some right here on DU!

[Th1onein]

85. You're absolutely right, Squinch.

[TalkingDog]

10. Which is why I posted the link to the study rather than an article in some WOOO magazine.

I know which way the wind blows on this site.

I got banned from posting in a forum that I've only ever posted to once or twice in 10 years for linking to a study (through GD) concluding that presenting (pertaining to several liberal causes) one's case loudly or in an overbearing, inflexible, manner tended to turn people off and drive them away from your cause.

All I did was post the study. I made no commentary otherwise. A shit storm ensued and an administrator for one of the liberal causes mentioned in the study (and a group on DU), emailed me and forbade me from posting in their forum. Now, the other two causes studied who also have DU groups, were either fine or ignored the shit storm. But boy, oh, boy there were a few pairs of twisted knickers that week.

[RainDog]

81. I'd love to see that study

would you mind posting it here?

[loudsue]

84. A lot of us old-timers are getting thrown out of forums these days, TalkingDog.

It sure hasn't made me feel very warm & fuzzy.

We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto.

[7962]

23. I've seen references to "woo" in other threads over time; please help me!! What is "woo"?

I've been here for years and I still see references that I have no idea what theyre referring to!

[JaneyVee]

25. Here ya go:

http://www.skepdic.com/woowoo.html

[7962]

29. Thanks very much! And now I know I've seen a LOT of "woo"! nt

[Whisp]

60. it's not medicinal unless someone can make Billions from it.

lol.

so much for gramma's Woo Chicken Soup!

[awoke_in_2003]

79. Woo War II. nt

[riderinthestorm]

7. Won't someone think of the children? ?!!1?!

All those people buying curry instead of Prozac!!11! 1



Sorry couldn't resist!

[In_The_Wind]

9. But ... it's so YELLOW!

[img][/img]

[TalkingDog]

11. Ha!

Great image.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

103. I always wondered why bright yellow rice made me happy

Prozac-like, huh?

Oh deer, now I have to add it to popcorn.

[hedgehog]

13. On the other hand, this means that peope who eat Indian food are ingesting an anti-depressant!

[etherealtruth]

15. Unfortunately, it doesn't follow that Indians have low rates of depression

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/india-named-worlds-most-depressed-nation-2325927.html

I am not discounting the potential effects of tumeric ...

[7962]

24. India more depressing than North korea? nt

[etherealtruth]

27. Who knows

[liberal_at_heart]

28. In India, there are high rises side by side with impoverished neighborhoods.

Some kids become indentured slaves to pay off their parents' debt. There are depressed people in India.

[JI7]

92. how would they have gotten info on North Korea ?

[Matariki]

43. I've heard that in India you are never more than 5 feet away from another human being

that's pretty damn depressing.

[TheDebbieDee]

105. But Prozac isn't an anti depressant, it's an anti anxiety medicine.

[DeadLetterOffice]

109. Um... not quite

Fluoxetine HCl (Prozac) is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI). This class of medication was originally developed as an anti-depressant, as an alternative to the old MAOI's and other anti-depressant drugs like amitriptyline.

SSRI's in general, and Prozac in particular, have since been found to be effective in treating other mental health conditions including bulimia, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and panic disorder. However, they are not generally thought of or referred to as "anti-anxiety" meds.

Perhaps you are thinking of the benzodiazepines, like Ativan and Xanax?

[surrealAmerican]

14. The question I have about this:

Is prozac much better than a placebo anyway?

I don't know that this is saying anything particularly good about the efficacy of turmeric.

[TalkingDog]

16. As I recall, Prozac worked as well as a placebo for mild to moderate depression

But did show signs of some efficacy for serious to severe depression.

And you'll have to either take my word on that, or look up the study. I'm working outside today and am checking responses on trips inside to warm up. No time to look up the citations.

[pnwmom]

98. Prozac doesn't appear to work better than placebo for mild or moderate depression.

This study was about major depression, and if the results can be repeated in larger studies, this could be great. Many people don't like the side effects of Prozac and other SSRI's.

[siligut]

19. And you can increase the bioavailability of curcumin by consuming it with black pepper

Some companies already sell the two combined.

[DBoon]

53. Does naan and mango chutney help?

I always feel less depressed when consuming these...

[siligut]

58. Well then, it most certainly helps

I don't know that mango chutney and naan help increase the bioavailability of curcumin, but they may have other antidepressant properties all their own

[lunasun]

80. and standarized extract @ 90%+ curcuminoids is type of tumeric root to pursue iirc

[liberal_at_heart]

20. That would be great, but I get so tired of hearing about trials that involve small sample

sizes for only a few weeks. That doesn't sound like a good trial to me. This is how we usually end up getting conflicting information about food every other week. One week a certain spice or food is good for you. The next it is bad. I'll wait until a more definitive study comes out to rush right out and buy curry.

[Orrex]

39. Careful, or you'll be accused of being a closed-minded scientist

"Closed-minded," of course, apparently means "not accepting tiny sample sizes or brief sample periods."

[NuclearDem]

42. I can already here it coming!

Claque claque claque...

[TalkingDog]

44. Why not just enjoy curry for curries sake?

If it makes you feel good to eat it what's the harm either way.

Americans are too fixated on the "magic bullet".

[eggplant]

65. Heh, yep.

Eggs are Good! No, eggs are bad! No, the white parts are good and the yellow parts are bad!

Butter is good! No, butter is bad, margarine is good! No, margarine is very bad, butter is good!

Wait, but what about lard?

[icymist]

71. And now they are dead!

!!!!

[nilram]

72. C'mon. Sample size of 2, not a great study.

I'm still banking on booze and animal fat.

[eggplant]

76. 100% of me is still alive (+/- 3%) so I'm with you. n/t

[Systematic Chaos]

97. Lard has the power....

[progressoid]

100. Well that was a fun way to start a Sunday!

[iamthebandfanman]

21. its debatable

whether any anti-depressant drug works (at least in its intended way, not as a placebo)...

if you ask me.

[TalkingDog]

46. I am somewhat in agreement with that idea.

But try to keep my intellect from ossifying.

[iamthebandfanman]

59. not just us, studies show it too...

'Conclusions

Drug–placebo differences in antidepressant efficacy increase as a function of baseline severity, but are relatively small even for severely depressed patients. The relationship between initial severity and antidepressant efficacy is attributable to decreased responsiveness to placebo among very severely depressed patients, rather than to increased responsiveness to medication.'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253608/


so if the goal of the OP was to point out that turmeric extract is just as good at giving a placebo effect as some pharmaceutical drugs... mission accomplished.

the brain is the last frontier of our body... which is why most of psychology is just theory and nothing more.

[Jesus Malverde]

22. India wins battle with USA over turmeric patent

The Indian government has successfully challenged the US patenting of turmeric—a standard ingredient of grandma's remedies in India for centuries—leading to cancellation of the patent.

The patent was filed by the University of Missisipi Medical Center, Mississipi, in December, 1993. US patent 5401504 was granted in March, 1995, for use of turmeric powder as a wound-healing agent. The Indian Council of Scientific and Industrial Research challenged the patent in October, 1996, on the grounds that i ...

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)63536-2/fulltext

In 1995, two expatriate Indians at the University of Mississippi Medical Centre were granted U.S. Patent 5,401,504 on Use of Turmeric in Wound Healing. The claim covered “a method of promoting healing of a wound by administering turmeric to a patient afflicted with wound”. This patent also granted them the exclusive right to sell and distribute turmeric. Initially, this news was a disbelief and surprise by many people in India.

In India, the turmeric has been “a classic grandmother’s remedy”, applied to cuts of children as an anti-parasitic agent, used as a blood purifier and in treating the common cold for generations. It is also used as an essential ingredient in many Indian dishes. It is part of our traditional knowledge. So, the question was how could someone get an exclusive right to sell and distribute turmeric?

In 1996, The Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR), India, New Delhi requested the US Patent and Trademarks Office (USPTO) to revoke the patent on the grounds of existing of prior art. CSIR did not succeed in providing that many Indians already use turmeric for wound healing although turmeric was known to every Indian household for ages. Fortunately, it could provide documentary evidence of traditional knowledge including ancient Sanskrit text and a paper published in 1953 in the Journal of the Indian Medical Association. The patent was revoked in 1997, after ascertaining that there was no novelty.
Now, what is exactly mean by Traditional knowledge?

Traditional knowledge refers to knowledge, innovations and peculiar practices developed from experience gained over centuries and adapted to the local culture and environment. It is mostly information held in human memories and not written down. Traditional knowledge systems do not act in isolation and include spiritual experiences, philosophies, politics, and technologies and strongly influenced by the indigenous traditions. The holder of traditional knowledge is the community that has unwritten customary laws which manage the access and use of traditional knowledge. This knowledge is vast enough to encompass categories like, agricultural knowledge, medicinal knowledge, biodiversity-related knowledge, and expressions of folklore in the form of music, dance, song, handicraft, designs, stories and artwork.

http://lifeintelect.com/blog/2013/10/24/traditional-knowledge-and-intellectual-property-case-of-turmeric/

[liberal_at_heart]

31. That's good. They should have the patent.

[lunasun]

82. good it was nothing new that deserved a "patent" .....aach

[SDjack]

30. Turmeric -- it's in French's yellow mustard. nt

[SheilaT]

32. What I actually take away from something like this

is that eating a variety of foods, real food, as freshly prepared as possible, is a very good idea.

Recently I made a chicken curry, and along with a curry powder, I added extra cumin, turmeric, ginger, and a little coriander. All I can tell you is that is was VERY good and I still have several portions in the freezer.

[brer cat]

34. +1. Freshly prepared foods are best

and any of the warming spices are healthy except possibly for people with stomach issues. I use a lot of cumin, coriander and turmeric. I love the flavors and the "heat."

[TalkingDog]

45. And we have a WINNAH!

Good job!

[Humanist_Activist]

35. Turmeric extract should be regulated like a medicine if shown effective, the supplement...

industry is woefully unregulated, you can buy all the capsules that say they have turmeric in them all you want, but there's no guarantee its actually in there, and no oversight to ensure it is.

[Th1onein]

86. Bull. All the way around, bull, Humanist_Activist.

If the turmeric extract is effective, we should not be able to get it then? So, profits are more important than patients? Because, you know, people have been ingesting turmeric for centuries, but now.......

Look, if you want a supplement with the real product in it, all you have to do is be a wary, informed consumer. For instance, request HPLC results. We really need not have Big Pharma regulating our supplements. They don't do a good job of regulating drugs.

[Humanist_Activist]

89. I ask that the manufacturers be regulated to make sure they contain the ingredients...

they claim to contain, and you claim I'm saying we should not be able to get it? What the fuck are you talking about?

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/food-dietary-supplements-leave-ingredients-off-their-labels-101513

If its effective, then people should be able to buy it, and NOT cheap fillers like rice, wheat, or soy. Is that too much to ask? That means oversight needs to take place, or do you think this industry, Big Supplement industry, should be self regulated?

[DeadLetterOffice]

107. +1

[Th1onein]

113. The problem with the "regulation" you want is that it is going to be done by the FDA.

And the supplement industry will be run out of business. If you don't agree with this, then kindly explain how this is not true. Explain how these companies are NOT going to have to test for efficacy.

By the way, if you're going to curse at me, you're going to quickly end up on my Ignore list.

[Humanist_Activist]

115. I'm just talking about testing the products to reduce outright fraud...

as long as they don't make any health claims, then no problem, no testing for efficacy, if they want their product to make such claims, however, then they should be tested for efficacy.

Do you have a problem with making big business run honestly?

[Th1onein]

117. I have a problem with the FDA taking over their regulation because big pharma owns the FDA.

[TlalocW]

36. My concern about Turmeric

Is if the stuff in the grocery stores is REAL turmeric. Last year I found out that most cinnamon is Casia cinnamon and not the true Ceylon cinnamon - I was beginning to experiment with baking, etc. and had heard good things about cinnamon for your health. As it happens, I had a friend living in Sri Lanka who was coming back to the states for a visit, and she asked me if I wanted anything, and I told her bring me real Ceylon cinnamon. She did... a plastic bag full of long bark pieces. She's funny like that. So I ran them through a blender then a food processor. I probably didn't get it as fine as it can be, but I can definitely tell the difference in taste. Now I'm going to have to research turmeric.

TlalocW

[icymist]

70. Use a coffee grinder to get it to powder.

I mostly like to cook with the stick intact.

[TlalocW]

73. Now I have to go buy a coffee grinder...

Man...

I like it powdered because I like to add it to my banana smoothies as well as bake with it.

TlalocW

[icymist]

74. You could always use the old-fashion way with a mortar and pesto...

I have a nice Japanese one I bought in a food co-op back in the nineties! A lot like this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Suribachi.MortarPestle.jpg

[TlalocW]

75. I actually just broke the cheap-o one I had

I do have a Mexican mocajete, but it's more for decorative purposes.

TlalocW

[dorkzilla]

37. As though I needed another reason to eat Indian food every chance I have

…also thank you because you just solved the daily "what should I make for dinner" dilemma!

Did you know that Riesling pairs INCREDIBLY WELL with Indian food??

[12ZTR]

38. It hasn't worked for me.

I'm still depressed. People still voting Dem. & Rep.

How many times can I post link this? lol

http://shoqvalue.com/george-carlin-on-the-american-dream-with-transcript/

"Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means, continue to elect these rich cock suckers who don’t give a fuck about you….they don’t give a fuck about you… they don’t give a FUCK about you."

There's no need to wake up,your in The American Dream?

[spanone]

40. Breaking: Eli Lilly/Glaxco have purchased ALL tumeric ownership/production throughout the universe

[eggplant]

41. Ok, a few important things to keep in mind as we go off the rails regarding woo.

Regarding "treatment" of depression:

1. "Depression" is a complex diagnosis.
2. There are many distinct pharmaceutical and/or therapeutic treatments for depression, not just Prozac.
3. No single treatment works for everyone. Sometimes you have to play Rx roulette to find the one that works for you.
4. The usefulness of a single drug on an individual changes over time. See #3, above.

Regarding woo and the conspiracy theory of big Pharma:

5. Woo is often miscategorized as the antithesis of Big Pharma, which is thought to be purely out for profit at the expense of consumers.
6. Woo is more correctly characterized by its use of anecdotal "evidence", which is to say no actual scientific (demonstrable, repeatable, statistically-valid study) evidence, regarding treatment outcomes.
7. Herbal or naturopathic treatments may be woo, and may be medicine, depending on whether actual testing regarding efficacy, dosing, contraindications, etc. has been done.
8. There really is a huge multi-billion dollar "woo" industry out there pushing untested "treatments" without any fear of liability. There are good and bad actors on both sides.

Regarding the validity of woo and/or big pharma:

9. "X worked for me, thus X should be considered a valid treatment for everyone" is not a useful statement.
10. "X did not work for me, thus X should not be considered a valid treatment for anyone" is not a useful statement.
11. Both #9 and #10 apply to both woo and big pharma treatments. Science simply does not work this way.

The generally absurd shouting matches here on DU about woo are just that: absurd. Nobody is listening to anyone, nobody is actually trying to convince anyone, and the loudest people are trying to shame their opponents with irrelevant "blind defenders of X" labels. None of this is helpful or even interesting (except as popcorn-consuming entertainment, and even that gets tired after a while).

As for the OP, this is an actual scientific study with actual quantitative results. It is a small study, and it is an animal study, and so the results should be considered with that in mind. But it really is a study. It shows that it is possible to meet in the middle -- scientific non-pharma-conspiracy-based research. So it is a start. It is not enough to draw conclusions in either direction as a result, but it indicates that further study may be warranted.

Finally, let's try to keep in mind that this study is discussing a quantifiable measure of a single chemical component found in turmeric, not some arbitrary amount of turmeric the spice. Confusing the two leads to woo.

[TalkingDog]

49. The initial study was on animials. This was a people study.

n/t

[Th1onein]

87. "Regarding....the conspiracy theory of big Pharma"

For the hundredth time, THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY THEORY OF BIG PHARMA. This is how people who don't want big pharma blamed for ANYTHING that they are responsible for couch people who want to blame big pharma for something. But there is a world of difference between a conspiracy theory and a systemic effect.

If you control the lawmakers, through lobbies, and you control the laws that are written, those laws are likely to benefit you. Only an idiot would call this scenario a "conspiracy theory."

[Humanist_Activist]

90. You do realize the same applies to the supplement and alternative medicine industries as well...

they lobbied, hard, in the 1990s, to be exempt from FDA regulation, and they succeeded.

[Th1onein]

111. That is beside the point. no one is accusing people who

are against what the supplement companies do, of being conspiracy theorists. But anyone who criticizes the power that the pharmas have is accused of being a conspiracy theorist. I'm sick of this stupidity.

[eggplant]

94. Yea, this was what I meant when I wrote "as we go off the rails regarding woo"

But thanks for the over-the-top strawman argument.

[Th1onein]

112. I'm sorry. I don't get your point.

Please explain.

[eggplant]

114. I'm sorry. It seems like you are trolling.

Off to the ignore list with you.

[Th1onein]

118. I'm definitely not trolling, but it's interesting that you won't explain your point.

Perhaps you don't have one?

[Lucinda]

47. Turmeric (with black pepper) is also good for inflammation

Useful stuff!

[backscatter712]

50. Well, we are starting off with an NIH scientific study.

That's very good, as far as avoiding the woo factor.

Does this mean that tumeric works as a substitute for Prozac?

Maybe.

I noticed from the abstract, as the OP did, that the sample size is small, and that the P-values are large.

What's a P-value? It's the probability that a result is from pure random chance, rather than a correlation.

The P-values in the abstract are 0.58, and 0.77. In other words, a 58% and 77% chance that the results were due to randomness
rather than a correlation.

Don't panic, the Prozac results were included in this - they also got a high P-value. So does this mean that the study's bogus?

No, it means there might be positive benefits from tumeric, but the math can't distinguish these results from random results. How do you get the math there? Do the study with a larger sample size. When you can get the P-value lower than 0.05 (or 5%), that's about where most researchers conclude that the evidence is solid.

[Skipx025]

57. The importance of p-values

I'm glad you made note of and explained the p-values.

[DeadLetterOffice]

67. Don't forget about the statistical power...

Last edited Sat Jan 18, 2014, 09:04 PM - Edit history (1)

You really can't draw any conclusions from a study this small with analysis power this low.

However, the biggest problem with the study is the lack of a no-treatment control group. The study seems to indicate that the three treatment groups (curcumin, Prozac, curcumin+ Prozac) had equivalent outcomes. But because there were no control groups (say, a placebo group, and a complete absence of treatment group) there's no way to say with any legitimacy that the results the study found had anything to do with either curcumin or Prozac. It could be that popping any random pill twice a day improves depression. Or being in a clinical study improves depression. Or some other un-accounted for thing. (Like, maybe, all the subjects being Indian and therefore likely getting curcumin through diet as well as through the study meds...) There's a reason why double-blind randomized clinical trials have control groups.

That said, it's an interesting pilot study. Hopefully the authors' suggestions for more rigorous evaluation with larger samples will be taken seriously.

Edited to add: It's not actually an NIH funded (or overseen) study. It was funded by the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Government of Gujarat, India.

[pansypoo53219]

54. so the indian custom of turmeric in milk for sleeping makes more sense. heard on NPR.

[Vashta Nerada]

56. Well shit, I should throw away my antidepressants and eat turmeric!

[naturallyselected]

61. So much wrong with this study

I couldn't tell anything from this abstract, so I found the paper.

There are only 16 or 17 in each group - you can't tell much of anything with this small a sample.

There was no comparison to a placebo. So there was no way to find if any of the three treatments differed from no treatment at all. The p-values cited in the abstract (all of which show no differences at all) seem to come from comparisons of the groups to each other. This means that the turmeric was just as effective as the Prozac in doing .... who knows? There is no control group.

The authors say that they used no placebo group out of "ethical considerations", because these subjects all suffered from major depression.

I don't know how this got published. No control. No graphs. If one of my physiology students passed this in, they would get it back ungraded and told to try again.

As a scientist, this paper is a great example of the type of thing that frustrates me so much. I would love to see good studies of alternative treatments, both compared to pharmaceutical treatments and combined with pharmaceutical treatments, but this is the useless stuff that comes out. I don't understand why there are virtually no studies that apply sound science in looking at the effectiveness of alternative treatments.

[DeadLetterOffice]

69. If it helps you feel any better...

... the journal it was published in has an Impact Factor of 2. Yup -- 2.
Which basically means they'll publish damn near anything that looks vaguely publishable.
The only article that cites this one was published in a 2.9 IF journal.
And the animal study that the people study was based on was published in a 1.7 IF journal.
As a comparison -- JAMA is a 30 IF journal.

[eggplant]

78. You get me so hot when you talk like this.

[Th1onein]

88. Impact factor doesn't mean a hell of a lot.

[eggplant]

95. Perhaps not to you, but to scholars... well...

Feel free to actually point to some evidence to your blanket statement.

[Th1onein]

110. Do you understand what an impact factor is a measure of?

I don't think you do.

[Silent3]

91. How do you know there's a "lack of side effects"?

Putting aside the issues others have already raised in this thread about the actual efficacy of turmeric, what makes you so sure that if turmeric were tested the same way we test other medicines that it would come out looking like nothing but pluses, with no minuses?

Who knows, for example, what happens if you take a bunch of rats and feed them doses of turmeric 500 times what a normal dose would be?

[mindwalker_i]

93. ...

It's not a tumor(ic)

[DeltaLitProf]

102. The chronic heartburn would depress me!

n/t

[jmowreader]

116. Go for pure curcumin if you do this

http://www.livestrong.com/article/543411-how-much-curcumin-is-there-in-powdered-turmeric/

Turmeric contains 2 percent curcumin by weight, so if you need a gram of the active ingredient to receive a pharmacological effect, you're talking about eating 50 grams - a tablespoon weighs about 7 grams, so you're looking at nearly 8 tablespoons of turmeric a day - to get the feel-good benefits of this stuff.

No one likes turmeric that much.