Pope Francis' new Spanish cardinal brands homosexuality a 'defect' that can be cured

[PeaceNikki]

Fernando Sebastián says gay people who do not procreate are 'failing'

The Pope’s new Spanish Cardinal has called homosexuality a physical “defect” that can be cured, it has been reported. Equating homosexuality to his own high blood pressure, Fernando Sebastián told the Spanish newspaper Diario Sur on Monday that: “Homosexuality is a defective manner of expressing sexuality, because [sex] has a structure and a purpose, which is procreation.

"A homosexual who can't achieve this (procreation) is failing," he said.

He continued: "Our bodies have many defects. I have high blood pressure."

He added that calling homosexuality a defect was “not an insult” but is instead helpful because it is “possible to recover and become normal with the right treatment."

The 85-year-old will take up his post in the Vatican as Spain’s newest cardinal in February.

His comments come after Pope Francis was named Person of the Year 2013 by leading gay rights magazine The Advocate after he told Brazilian reporters: “If someone is gay and seeks the Lord with good will, who am I to judge?”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-new-spanish-cardinal-brands-homosexuality-a-defect-that-can-be-cured-9072390.html

[Politicalboi]

1. More BS from pedophiles

Religion is a defect and it can be cured by thinking for yourself.

[Go Vols]

19. +1

[Demo_Chris]

29. yep. nt

[warrant46]

101. Absolutely what a clown is this representative of the criminal organization

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. His high blood pressure is interfering with his "thinking."

indeed.

[1000words]

3. Nothing a few "Pope being awesome" photo Ops won't fix

[FreeState]

10. +1 n/t

[Xipe Totec]

4. Send all complaints to the manufacturer. nt

[tazkcmo]

91. he he

I like that.

[jmowreader]

5. Give me that old time Catholicism!

http://m.

[Dawson Leery]

6. The Roman Catholic Church was the creation of Constantine.

It is a false church with false doctrine. The teachings of Jesus Christ show us that he would never condemn someone for being gay.

[Arugula Latte]

68. I guess it's very different than all those other churches/religions that are built on logic,

reason, rationality, fact, and true-life happenings.

[Throd]

7. I don't think it works that way.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Will the Francis Superstar Promotions Department personel come to defend this?

Last week I was told all of his appointments were 'poverty related' and about 'a new way'. Uh huh. 'Just look at what this Pope is doing!' they squealed. Well, this is what he is doing.
If the Francis promoters would at least be honest, and admit they are willing to subject their neighbors to constant hate speech from their leadership, I might find a way to forgive what they do. But they lie through the whole thing.

[FreeState]

11. As is customary here

they leave threads alone that don't go along with their vision of reality.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

13. Then permit me to break with custom

I do like the new Pope. I'm not religious. This cardinal sounds like a bad choice for the Pope to have made. That's my "vision" of reality.

[PeaceNikki]

15. Weird...

Pope set to name cardinals to reflect his vision of the Church

[DisgustipatedinCA]

16. Yeah. Weird. Want to start going through Obama's nominees checking for weirdness?

This story isn't your trump card.

[PeaceNikki]

17. It's not a fucking game. It's people's lives.

People are being told they are ill and need to be cured. And they're being bullied, beaten, killed and committing suicide because they are being made to feel not normal.

So - fuck your trump card. And FUCK the pope and his cardinals.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

20. Whatever. Take your rage to someone who gives a shit.

It's not that you don't make some good points, but irrespective of what you say, I still think he's way better than the Nazi, and that's my standard for measuring his performance. I don't agree with him on several issues, but as I've mentioned, I'm not religious. The more you scream at me and get over dramatic with a liberal sprinkling of fucks, the less inclined I am to listen to you.

[PeaceNikki]

23. Noted. You're the one who started posting in this thread.

You're free to stay out.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

28. I'll let you know when I need posting advice from you.

A challenge was put forth to lurkers in the thread. I accepted it. I said what I came to say. If that's not to your liking,mthe re are remedies you can pursue.

[PeaceNikki]

30. Back atcha.

[NYC Liberal]

95. How, specifically, is Francis "way better than the Nazi"?

Both have the same views on economics.
Both have the same views on LGBT issues.
Both have the same views on women's rights.

I'm curious. Sincerely. Because other than Francis being better at PR, I don't see it when I look at their actual positions.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. These appointments were clearly presented as a statement Francis is making

"He will feel very free to choose the people he thinks should be in those positions, regardless of what was done before," said Father Antonio Spadaro, the editor of the Jesuit journal Civilta Cattolica who interviewed the pope last summer.

"Certainly it will help us further understand where he wants the Church to go."

That's from the link. Perhaps Cattolica will retract that statement. Don't think so.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

22. I'm on record as saying this looks like a bad choice on the Pope's part

Thanks.

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Looks that way does it? I say it looks like Francis is selecting those who reflect

his views, which are well recorded as being very similar to this man's. He's picking from among his own fellow hate mongers. It's what is known as a definitive choice, the choice defines the man making it. It also defines those who declare such bigoted discourse to be somehow acceptable on any level from anyone, about anyone.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

92. I'm glad I'm well defined in your mind.

[MineralMan]

60. The Pope shares this Cardinal's belief.

Still like him? Really?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

93. Yes. Really.

[musical_soul]

49. The RCC says it's a sin.

Just like my eating too much is a sin. Oh well.

Saying something is a sin is not the same as hate. The thing about the RCC is that they don't single gays out like they're being accused of.

[PeaceNikki]

54. Oh, spare me. Greed, gluttony and divorce are sins, too.

But they aren't protesting at banks, The Golden Corral, and attorney's offices.

[musical_soul]

79. But.....

They won't remarry anybody who has been divorced without an annullment.

The Pope is making it clear that he doesn't like a lot of greed. Rush Limbaugh falsely accused him of being a Marxist for crying outloud.

[PeaceNikki]

81. My grandfather was excommunicated from the CC for divorce in the 40's.

And, anyone can get an 'annulment' for the asking. Or get married in a different church or the court house. That's not exactly what I meant, though.

They are not spending millions to fight secular laws allowing divorce or remarriage without a church annulment. They are spending millions fighting secular laws allowing gay marriage and the reproductive rights of women.

And those issues are very much tied to poverty so the rest is bullshit.

[musical_soul]

96. How is gay marriage related to poverty?

I don't agree with the contraception thing. I do think the abortion thing is important. After a while, it's not just issue. It has arms, legs, a heart beat, and everything else. We wouldn't excuse "terminating" the born because of poverty.

Sorry about your grandfather. It's a different church now. It probably wouldn't happen today.

[PeaceNikki]

104. Denying LGBT people equal access to family benefits and other civil rights contributes to poverty.

Some LGBT people are poor. In fact, after controlling for a number of factors associated with poverty, rates for LGB adults are higher than for heterosexual adults.

This fact should not be surprising. After all, LGBT people are born into all types of families, including those who are poor. LGBT people face the same socio-economic challenges that other people who share their sex, race, ethnicity, age, and disability face. But they also face unique obstacles because of their sexual orientation and gender identity. These include a higher risk of being homeless when they are young, harassment and discrimination at school and at workplace, and being denied the economic benefits of marriage.

To envision the LGBT poor, you only have to think about the young gay man who is kicked out of his home and ends up at the Greyhound Bus Station in Hollywood; the transgender woman being turned down in job interview after job interview for entry level jobs; or an elderly lesbian whose partner’s death means less social security income and possibly the loss of her home.

However, LGBT poverty remains surprising because these are not the dominant images of the community, and stereotypes remain resilient. Most directly implicated is the myth of affluence that historically has been pinned on several marginalized communities, including Jews and Asian-Pacific Islanders. However, for LGBT people, this stereotype rests on a number of other ones. For many, when they think about LGBT people, they envision gay, white, young men who do not have children. Think “Will” on Will & Grace. Breaking down that dominant image provides both an understanding of LGBT poverty and the work and coalitions needed to address it:

More at link: http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/headlines/beyond-stereotypes-poverty-in-the-lgbt-community/

And let's not get into abortion here, it's obvious you're anti-choice.

[theHandpuppet]

106. Hard to believe we have still have to argue for women's choice and autonomy...

... on what is supposed to be a progressive website.

[PeaceNikki]

109. Yeah, that's a serious sore spot for me.

Anti-choicers on DU should be banned as swiftly as those who don't support full LGBT rights.

But they aren't. It's sad. It's the biggest bone I have to pick with Skinner.

[theHandpuppet]

111. Well, we obviously have folks on this board who support neither...

....while free to prosthelytize on a progressive forum.

[musical_soul]

156. Just don't ban them from the party.....

or there might be a problem. You got a lot of Catholics voting Democrat. Just sayin.

[musical_soul]

155. That's one of the reasons why.....

I voted against the "marriage" amendment in my state. I wanted people to keep getting domestic benefits and to not be in any danger of losing them.

But consider this.

A lot of Christians (and definitely a lot of Catholics) don't even attend church. I would think that means that their level of actually caring about what the bible says is low. I could wrong, but that's what I think in a lot of cases. A huge part of the active Catholics (and Christians in general) work in charities.

The way I see things, in a perfect Catholic or at least a perfect Christian world, there would be no poverty. There would be no poverty because we'd stop being so greedy. We'd make sure that nobody did without. In a perfect Christian world (like the one I was raised in), homosexuality is not an excuse to discriminate or harass people. It's definitely not an excuse to violate people. In a perfect Christian world, homosexuals would be loved and not mistreated.

But as it turns out, a lot of people who call themselves Christians don't go to church, don't hardly read their bible, and aren't hardly active in general. They're just using the bible as an excuse to be a hateful jerk.

[MineralMan]

63. Oh yes they are. The Archdiocese of Minneapolis and St. Paul

spent millions trying to prevent marriage equality in Minnesota. That is precisely singling out gays. That is the policy of the RCC. It remains the policy of the RCC, along with a ban on contraception and reproductive choice and the prohibition of women serving as clergy.

The RCC is a regressive, patriarchal religious organization. Period.

[musical_soul]

80. Well....

If they're also protesting abortion, then they're not single out gays.

If they're advocating that Catholic organizations be exempted from the contraception mandate, then they're not singling out gays.

Truth is I think if they had their way, they would protest divorce and remarried. Problem is that ship has sailed. One day, the gay marriage ship will sail. Then, the RCC won't protest so much. Unless of course you're trying to force them to take pictures for their wedding, then it might be considered getting in the way of their religious freedom.

Some parts of the RCC can be aggressive. So can some parts of the gay rights movement. If you're accusing people of being child molestors just because they're currently speaking out against gays (as I've seen in this thread), then that's aggressive.

[PeaceNikki]

85. People fighting for their rights should be aggressive. People fighting against them should STFU.

See? Simple, really.

Abortion has been the law of the land for forty years. When are they going to call that 'ship sailed'?

Your argument is ridiculous.

[MineralMan]

130. LGBT rights and reproductive choice are

Two different things. The RCC is wrong on both. While it might tell its members what to do, the RCC goes far beyond that in both things. It attempts to force others, who are not members of its church to follow its doctrine in these areas. The RCC actively lobbies for laws that would force people to follow its doctrines. That is simply not acceptable in a democratic republic.

Let the church speak to its members and only to its members. I'll have none of its doctrines.

[FreeState]

70. Telling people their identity is a sin is hate n/t

[theHandpuppet]

72. Wow

I guess I'm not supposed to tell you how insulting I find your post to be, so I'll just say you must be woefully misinformed. Well, take a tour and get back to us:

http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/
http://allafrica.com/stories/201401200239.html
http://allafrica.com/stories/201401150307.html?aa_source=useful-column
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20140119/NEWS03/140119291/1006/NEWS
http://www.americancatholic.org/News/Homosexuality/
http://www.usccb.org/news/2013/13-240.cfm
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/marriage/promotion-and-defense-of-marriage/frequently-asked-questions-on-defense-of-marriage.cfm
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/index.cfm
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/prayers/prayer-defense-of-marriage.cfm
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-roman-catholic-church
http://www.catholic.com/video/same-sex-marriage

Should you require additional reading matter, please let me know. The supply is virtually inexhaustible. Further, should you ever lose your job at a Catholic institution for eating too many twinkies, please post immediately.

[musical_soul]

82. I'm up on Catholic literature. Thanks.

I will check out those links though.

I would imagine if you work at a Catholic institution, then you might want to go by their rules. I would not work at a Catholic institution if I was gay, having pre-marital sex, and so forth. I don't think it's in the best interest of a strict Catholic to go work at a gay bar. It's common sense.

[theHandpuppet]

112. Do check out those links

And you will let me know when you discover that bigotry is a form of hate.

[Deep13]

52. I agree with Francis on poverty issues, not on this. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Pope set to name cardinals to reflect his vision of the Church

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218106021

That thread is filled with folks who snarked away who will not have the courage to stand up with the homophobes they were so sure would not be appointed.
Barf indeed.

[SidDithers]

12. Kick and rec...

These threads are needed to balance out the bullshit Papal adulation threads that appear several times a day.

Like this one, that garnered 100+ recs for something Pope Photo-Op did't even say.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024359951




Sid

[Vashta Nerada]

27. It's amazing how many people will believe a cute little quote put on a picture of supposed source

of said quote and don't ever fact-check the quote to see if it actually did come from that particular source.

[theHandpuppet]

66. I guess what irritated me most about that...

...was the fact that every time those who are opposed to the homophobic and misogynic dogmas speak out about what Francis or the Cardinals have said, we are told to provide links, quotes and citations -- as if we just make this stuff up or we're engaging in hyperbole. We have provided these sources hundreds of times and yet are immediately set upon if we don't again and again pull the same citations out of our asses immediately upon demand. Conversely, how many times have folks questioned the sources for the pro-papacy threads? They all start out the same, with huge, generic photos of a smiling Francis then followed predictably by some feel-good story that sounds as if it were plucked from the desk at the Vatican's PR department. No scratching beneath the surface, sometimes without citations at all. Folks just accept these stories at face value. When any information contrary to them is provided, even when it is from the mouths of the Cardinals themselves, well then, the source must be lying. It's really quite sad to see folks turn themselves into pretzels in order to rationalize this adoration for a bigot.
By no means do I think the DUer who posted the quote about trade unions did so with any knowledge whatsoever that the source was false. I simply think the poster made the mistake, as do others here and as I have sometimes done, not to question these stories in the same measure as opposing voices have been questioned. If it hadn't been for Humanist_Activist I would simply have assumed that the source of the quote was genuine. Because H_A took a moment to question the source of that quote, I was able within a couple of minutes to find exactly where it had been published. It was an object lesson for me. I didn't realize that I had fallen into the same trap as so many others, i.e., that because a story or quote supposedly comes from a religious source it must be genuine, true. I'll not make that mistake again.

[Vashta Nerada]

67. I agree.

Good points.

[Demo_Chris]

31. Magic is magic. Anyway, he wears comfy shoes, what a guy!

[shenmue]

14. What balderdash

Sad to see some people still have their heads stuck up their backsides.

[Arugula Latte]

21. Stupid religious beliefs are a defect that can be cured.

[MineralMan]

65. Precisely!

[Vashta Nerada]

24. Don't point out that inconvenient truth.

You'll be labeled as "shitting on the poor".



I'd like to see the pope defenders defend this ugliness.

[pnwmom]

25. Ugh. Well, the only good part is that at 85 he's too old to help elect the next Pope.

Unfortunately, he's probably representative of the thinking of most 85 year olds, in or out of the clergy.

[PeaceNikki]

26. I was told to "take my rage to someone who gives a shit."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4362669

Assholes.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

32. You cursed me out, I responded, and now you've run to another place to call me an asshole.

You attacked me with exhortations for me to fuck my games and fuck my pope, etc, etc, and now you jump to a different spot to whimper about your mistreatment. Pretty goddamned pathetic, also known as being able to dish it out, but being completely incapable of taking it. What a fucking farce.

[PeaceNikki]

33. Such a delicate flower....

lol

[DisgustipatedinCA]

36. I fight my own fights. You run and complain to others. People can draw their own conclusions.

For my part, I require nothing from you to validate my life and the way I'm conducting it.

[PeaceNikki]

40. k

[icymist]

39. Yup! They're all a bunch of old men who think their antiquated thoughts still matter. NT

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Of course most 85 year olds are not being promoted to greater power

in spite of being ignorant bigoted hate mongers, now are they? So this man can hardly be held up as some average example of his age peers. He is part of a world in which hate speech and dotage lead to elevation, not to dismissal.

[Solly Mack]

34. So what does that make celibacy then?

If the expression of sexuality is only for procreation, then anything that impedes that (procreation) is, by his own definition, a defect. Sexuality is defined as the capacity for sexual feelings. It would be a lie to claim priests (and all their ranks) are without that capacity, so...

Let's change his statement:

- Celibacy is a defective manner of expressing sexuality, because {sex} has a structure and a purpose, which is procreation. -

So, if the Cardinal wants to be "become normal", he needs to start procreating.


What an idiot. Bigoted garbage.

[libdem4life]

35. Think of this...Marcus Bachmann now has a place to continue his "work". Hopefully he'll take Michele

with him.

[PeaceNikki]

38. The Bachmanns are actually Lutherans.

Anti-popey, but in solidarity on this topic.

[libdem4life]

42. The State of Minnesota just outlawed "curing" gay people. That's what Marcus did for a living.

[PeaceNikki]

44. good.

assholes.

[MineralMan]

58. Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, though.

That's the Southern Baptist brand of the Lutheran Church. It's also the smallest Lutheran sect. The ELCA, the largest branch is inclusive of LGBT Christians, and doesn't judge them.

[PeaceNikki]

59. Yes, I know.

I was actually raised and confirmed WELS.

[MineralMan]

61. Ah, OK. Thanks.

I just wanted to clarify, to make sure that people didn't think all Lutherans reject LGBT folks.

[PeaceNikki]

62. I see. Yes- not all are WELS.

They're a special kind of asshole.

[Beacool]

37. Did Francis say it? Nope, some Spanish cardinal said it.

Is anyone responsible for the crap that someone else says?



Having said that, screw the Cardinal!!!

[PeaceNikki]

43. He was appointed by Francis

And we JUST heard.... Pope set to name cardinals to reflect his vision of the Church

[Humanist_Activist]

139. Its in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, so I'm assuming you are going to...

ahem, screw the Pope, because he upholds it?

[sakabatou]

46. *headdesk*

[musical_soul]

47. Some gays do have kids.

Problem solved. lol.

[Deep13]

50. Huh, so I guess it's not a defect after all.

Cardinal Dumbass

[PeaceNikki]

53. The pope wants to stop that, too.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-encouraged-malta-bishop-to-speak-out-against-gay-adoption-bill/

[musical_soul]

73. It's not like he's getting his way.

Besides, that's adoption, not birth.

[PeaceNikki]

76. I don't know what your point is.

It seems like you're saying we shouldn't be disgusted when the church tries to dictate secular law because they aren't getting their way?

[musical_soul]

84. Get mad if you want to.....

just don't demonize an entire group of people. I see a lot of that on here.

[PeaceNikki]

89. Tell you what - I will stop "demonizing" the Catholic Church when they stop fighting against our

rights.

Until then - fuck them.

[musical_soul]

90. You just do a whole lot for your cause.

No better than some conservatives making gays out to be child molesters. Sigh.

[Deep13]

48. homosexuals can and do have children.

just not with each other. The problem with being gay is social, not biological. A gay couple would need to go outside of their marriage to procreate and that is what these religious dogmatists are unwilling to consider. Anyway, if there is any sexual deviancy that can be cured, it's celibacy. Homosexuality cannot be cured, because it is not an illness. It is not a defect either, because it is harmless. There is nothing that straight people can do that gay people cannot do. This is in sharp contrast to the things homophobes usually use for comparison, especially pedophilia. That is likewise not an illness, but has serious negative consequences for the pedophile and his victims. So even if it were possible to "cure" homosexuality--and it isn't--there is no reason to do so.

[PeaceNikki]

51. The pope wants to stop that, too.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-encouraged-malta-bishop-to-speak-out-against-gay-adoption-bill/

[Deep13]

55. Don't worry kids, you can stay in foster care or in the orphanage...

rather than let an otherwise qualified couple adopt you, because both partners have the same plumbing. 'Cuz, that's what's REALLY important. This is why one cannot separate poverty issues from other social issues.

I was actually talking about gay people having their own natural children, but yeah, the opposition to adoption is just bizarre.

[PeaceNikki]

57. EXACTLY!!!

"This is why one cannot separate poverty issues from other social issues."

thank you.

[MineralMan]

56. But...but...the Pope likes poor people.

That overrides his attitude towards women and LGBT people, right?

He's digging the hole deeper and deeper. I don't see how anyone can speak of this man in glowing terms. I simply do not.

[TeeYiYi]

64. Here... I thought I'd better bring this...

...a little something, ever so darling, to muddy the waters.



There. Fixed it. Now nobody in GD will be the wiser...

Yay pope!

TYY

[Demo_Chris]

86. The world's foremost supporter, defender, and champion of child rapists reliving his glory days?

[Humanist_Activist]

69. "Intrinsically disordered" is what the Catechism of the Church calls it, something the Pope and...

this Cardinal believes. Also note that the Church is silent on reparative "therapy", neither supporting or denying it.

Just a note, the whole who am I to judge statement only applies to those seeking the Lord in good will, in other words, the the only good gay person is a chaste gay person, according to the Pope.

[MineralMan]

71. Exactly. That is what the Pope believes and supports. GLBT people are

"intrinsically disordered" according to the Roman Catholic Church. As long as that is in the catechism, that is what the RCC teaches. They are simply wrong. And, being wrong, the RCC has persecuted GLBT people for a very long time, working to deny them equality, not only in their church, but in society as a whole.

In Minneapolis and St. Paul, the Roman Catholic Church spent millions trying to deny the right to marry in their attempt to harm LGBT Minnesotans. They acted in a vile way to harm people. That same archdiocese also covered up sexual abuse by priests of children for many, many years. If a church does evil, how is it an example of anything but evil?

There is no defense for what the RCC has done to innocent people.

[struggle4progress]

74. There doesn't seem to be, so far as I can tell, any definitive medical theory of "homosexuality"

nor should one expect such a theory in the near future: there is significant variation in the human population, and individual sexual attractions are the result of personal biology, life experiences, and probably any number of other difficult-to-interpret factors

At the present state of knowledge, any scientific theory of human sexuality will take into account the primary fact that sexuality evolved because it provided a reproductive advantage. In a limited number of social animals, sexuality might also serve social ends, but sociality also may confer a reproductive advantage: thus, the significant decoupling of human sexual responsiveness from the female oestral cycle may facilitate pair-bonding with increased offspring-survival prospects; and similarly, perhaps, bonobo sexuality might facilitates survival prospects for troop offspring

The general current medical attitude towards sexual minorities, as I understand it, is that patients should be treated with understanding and dignity but (depending on individual proclivities) it may be appropriate to counsel patients against risky behavior and that in some occasional cases intervention may be required if the patient poses a threat to self or others. In particular, the now widely-accepted psychiatric view seems to be that "homosexuality" should not be regarded as requiring psychiatric treatment if the patient experiences no psychiatric distress from his/her sexual urges, but when patients do experience psychiatric distress from their "homosexuality" their distress can be properly addressed and "treated" by psychiatric means

The views expressed by Fernando Sebastián may be considered as largely based on the view that the primary purpose of sexual activity is direct biological reproduction, a stance which similarly proscribes masturbation and other non-reproductive sex, such as use of birth control. This generally accords with modern evolutionary theory, though it appears to ignore social aspects of human sexuality noted above, which may also indirectly serve reproductive ends. But an ethic of sexuality, emphasizing importance of social relations rather than reproduction, might still discourage other modes of sexual engagement disfavored by the Catholics, such as sexual contact outside of committed relationships, adultery (which can involve various betrayals of trust), coerced sexuality (which was quite common in the Roman empire in which the early church arose), prostitution (which reduces sexual interaction to a monetary exchange rather than a personal relationship), and various activities posing unnecessary medical risks to a partner

If Sebastián means to say that medical treatment can eliminate non-mainstream sexual desire, then his notion that "homosexuality" can be "cured" doesn't seem to accord with current psychiatric thinking, of course -- and he does seem to be saying exactly that. However, he may also be saying something quite different, even if he expresses it with an inaccurate medical claim: by comparing "homosexuality" to his heart condition, an imperfection for which he himself may bear no responsibility and over which he himself can exercise little real control, except to be aware of his condition and to try not to exacerbate it, he may also be expressing something about his notion of the human condition

[Bluenorthwest]

83. What you have posted here is disgusting. It's been about 30 years since any

legitimate medical authority has termed 'sexual minorities' as 'patients' to be treated. The idea itself is offensive. Vile. I reject your post in the strongest terms.
Antiquated ignorance.

[struggle4progress]

98. Your reading of my text is quite sloppy and careless. Members of sexual minorities

do seek medical care, just as other members of the population do; and for some purposes, the fact that the person presenting as patient belongs to a sexual minority can be medically relevant. The stance of the psychiatric profession, for about forty years now, has been that there is no psychiatric affliction "homosexuality," but some persons belonging to sexual minorities (including "homosexuals&quot do present to psychiatrists, reporting distress about their sexual inclinations, and in such cases the patient is properly treated for the distress

[Bluenorthwest]

108. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

It's all right there. You are attempting to defend or excuse the vicious bigotry displayed by this cleric. You are not doing it very well, but then again defending the indefensible is a job for an entire public relations staff.

[Bluenorthwest]

87. Facts

◾The American Psychological Association released a Statement on Homosexuality in 1994-JUL. Their first two paragraphs are:

The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals.

Nor is homosexuality a matter of individual choice. Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture. Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores. Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments.


Official Statement Concerning Homosexuality from the American Medical Association



In an excerpt from their Policy on the Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population (H-160.991), the American Medical Association states:


Our AMA: (1) believes that the physician's nonjudgmental recognition of sexual orientation and behavior enhances the ability to render optimal patient care in health as well as in illness... With the help of the gay and lesbian community and through a cooperative effort between physician and the homosexual patient effective progress can be made in treating the medical needs of this particular segment of the population; (2) is committed to taking a leadership role in: (a) educating physicians on the current state of research in and knowledge of homosexuality and the need to take an adequate sexual history; these efforts should start in medical school, but must also be a part of continuing medical education; (b) educating physicians to recognize the physical and psychological needs of their homosexual patients; (c) encouraging the development of educational programs for homosexuals to acquaint them with the diseases for which they are at risk; (d) encouraging physicians to seek out local or national experts in the health care needs of gay men and lesbians so that all physicians will achieve a better understanding of the medical needs of this population; and (e) working with the gay and lesbian community to offer physicians the opportunity to better understand the medical needs of homosexual and bisexual patients; and (3) opposes, the use of "reparative" or "conversion" therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation.

From H-160.991 Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population.

[struggle4progress]

99. The American Psychiatric Association beat the American Psycological Association to that punch

by about twenty years, removing "homosexuality" as a psychiatric diagnosis in 1973

And as far as I can tell, the statements you cite are largely consistent with what I wrote: in fact, I consulted both statements before writing my text

[Bluenorthwest]

103. No, what you wrote is completely contradictory of what those statements say

It says: The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality.

You say: "There doesn't seem to be, so far as I can tell, any definitive medical theory of "homosexuality".

And it goes on and on from there. They say it is clear that it is simply a way some people express human love. You say there is no theory about homosexuality. They say it is clear and simple, just love.
All of that other odd text of yours is creepy stuff, sorry. As is your attempt to defend a man calling gay people defective by claiming, falsely as you do, that modern science has no clear thinking on the subject.
Very offensive bullshit, across the board. Are you posting from the 18th Century via some rift in the continuum or something?

[struggle4progress]

114. Nowhere did I describe "homosexuality" as either "mental illness" or as "moral depravity"

Moreover, I clearly stated that I regarded Sebastián's medical claim as inaccurate

Nor is a good medical theory necessarily a theory of diseased function: the realization that the heart circulates blood throughout the body is regarded as an important step in the development modern medicine, but that observation was not itself a remark about diseased process

[PeaceNikki]

88. I echo Bluenorthwest's opinion of your reply.

[struggle4progress]

100. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion. I personally consider Catholic bashing

as unappealing as gay bashing, despite the fact that I disagree with the Roman Catholic church on a number of points -- and in the case of Fernando Sebastián, my post explicitly pointed out some of my disagreement with him

[PeaceNikki]

102. The gays aren't trying to take rights away from you and I. The Catholics are.

I wouldn't 'bash' them if they'd stay out of our secular society and keep their archaic rules confined to themselves.

[struggle4progress]

116. The Vatican's record may actually be rather more mixed than the Catholic bashers would suggest:

SEXUAL OFFENCES (No. 2)
HC Deb 05 July 1966 vol 731 cc 259-67 259
§ 3.41 p.m.
Mr. Leo Abse (Pontypool)
I beg to move, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the law of England and Wales relating to homosexual acts ... The Home Office spokesman in another place suggested that there were half a million homosexuals in the country. Evidence given to the Wolfenden Committee suggested that there were perhaps about three-quarters of a million ... It is an absurdity that, as a result of the law as it stands, apart from motorists, homosexuals comprise the largest class of criminals in the land ... Can the law be said to be a deterrent? How would we married men respond to a law enforcing celibacy upon us? Would we be deterred? ... Almost half the total cases of blackmail reviewed over three years by the Wolfenden Committee showed that they had some connection with homosexuality ... As the law brands them as criminals and outlaws, their isolation is intensified, they become increasingly estranged and many retreat into a ghetto, cut off from involvement in the community, feeling hostility from the community ... It is because they are informed by compassion that it is not surprising that the Church Assembly, the Church of England Moral Welfare Council, the Roman Catholic Advisory Committee, set up by the late Cardinal Griffin, the Methodist Conference and the Unitarians, with all the clinical experience which comes to them from their pastoral care, have all called for the implementation of the Wolfenden Report. Is it not time, is it not overdue, that the Churches' call was heeded in this House? ...
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1966/jul/05/sexual-offences-no-2

... Archbishop Celestino Migliore, the apostolic nuncio leading the Holy See’s permanent observer mission to the United Nations, ... speaking to a session of the UN General Assembly, remarked: "the Holy See appreciates the attempts made in the 'Declaration on human rights, sexual orientation and gender identity' - presented at the UN General Assembly on 18 December 2008 - to condemn all forms of violence against homosexual persons as well as urge States to take necessary measures to put an end to all criminal penalties against them" ...
Vatican U.N. delegation calls for end to unjust discrimination against homosexuals
Vatican City, Dec 19, 2008 / 05:04 pm

[PeaceNikki]

121. Holy shit, cherry pick much?

Read the rest of that report from 2008. It's not anything to boast about.

I'll wait here while you find some statements from the Holy See on my secular right to medical care without their interference.

[struggle4progress]

124. As I posted in #105:

... the first religious group I ever encountered, interested in street activism in favor of gay rights, was actually a Catholic student group at a university I attended; and .. the first sermon I ever actually heard preached in any church against homophobia was preached by a Franciscan priest in a Catholic church I visited -- which I no longer find surprising, since I now realize the Roman Catholic has a rather large footprint worldwide and gathers inside its walls a large variety of persons ...
#105

[PeaceNikki]

126. Yes, your touching anecdote undoes ALL of the evil they do.

[struggle4progress]

132. Yeah. You go right on thinking that anyone who doesn't agree with you on something

must be your enemy in every other way -- and that people who report experiences that don't match your stereotypes must be liars

Meanwhile, I'll keep trying to learn to understand the way people, who disagree with me on some issues, think and talk; and how I might find some common ground with them. I find it a productive exercise -- and as long as I'm telling you stories that you disbelieve, maybe I should add that I really think it helped me talk to some Catholic voters when, in the spring 2012, I was knocking doors trying to defeat the NC constitutional amendment banning gay marriage

We'll give it a few years and then see who's having more luck motivating folk who want to sit on the fence

[PeaceNikki]

134. k

You keep dreaming of a theocracy. I'll keep fighting against it.

[struggle4progress]

135. *

[jeanliberty90]

140. were you raised Catholic?

Sometimes people who grew up in the church and had a bad experience in it become its strongest opponents. Just wondering.

[Humanist_Activist]

131. Wow, you really don't have any ideas worth listening too, especially when it comes to...

sexuality or religion, just fucking disgusting.

Oh, and NEVER equate criticizing homophobes with gay bashing.

[Arugula Latte]

94. Wow. Disgusting post.

And you're carrying water for this religious freak who thinks his depraved institution can and should control women and gays.

When does the struggle for progress start?

[struggle4progress]

105. Politics is an art, that requires us to find common ground with people whose views

do not always accord entirely with our own, and part of that art involves deciding which fights are worthwhile and which are not

If you want to adopt the view that the Catholic church is a "depraved institution" populated by "religious freaks," you are (of course) free to do so

I myself do not find such a view very useful, as it does not accord with my experience: I instead find myself agreeing with various individual Catholics on some issues and disagreeing on others, the particular points of agreement or disagreement varying according to the particular individual, and it is not uncommon for me to discover in a single conversation points of both strong agreement and strong disagreement

I will add that the first religious group I ever encountered, interested in street activism in favor of gay rights, was actually a Catholic student group at a university I attended; and will further add that the first sermon I ever actually heard preached in any church against homophobia was preached by a Franciscan priest in a Catholic church I visited -- which I no longer find surprising, since I now realize the Roman Catholic has a rather large footprint worldwide and gathers inside its walls a large variety of persons

[PeaceNikki]

107. The Catholic Church and the Pope should not be part of politics.

That, you see, is the problem.

[struggle4progress]

122. We should take the view that only those who agree with us are entitled to lobby legislatures?

All of my legislative lobbying efforts (mostly on environmental or voting rights issues) have been done through non-profit organizations, which I joined in hopes of affecting legislative or regulatory outcomes

I'm not sure how you would construct your proposed prohibition but I am gravely concerned that your proposal would -- after passing through various sausage-grinding legislative committees and onto the floor of a legislature -- yield a product not at all to my tastes

[PeaceNikki]

123. We should take the view that *religious* organizations should have no part of politics.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

[struggle4progress]

125. Why? In the US they're essentially governed by the same rules governing other nonprofits

Last edited Mon Jan 20, 2014, 09:35 PM - Edit history (1)

[PeaceNikki]

129. “How dismal it is to see present day Americans yearning for the very orthodoxy that their country

was founded to escape.”
― Christopher Hitchens

In a nutshell.

[struggle4progress]

138. Hitchens was an alcoholic Islamophobe and supported W's clusterfuck in Iraq

[Heywood J]

157. When they pay taxes, they can have a say. (NT)

[Bluenorthwest]

110. How do you rate this Cardinal on fiding common ground? Any complaints with him?

You are accusing people who are critical of extremely hateful, backward verbal attacks on a minority by a recently elevated, powerful and wealthy man of a larger bigotry simply for objecting to this foul, pernicious, disgusting hate speech. You are in fact standing with the hate speaker, a raving bigot filled with ignorance, and claiming that he is somehow representative of the larger body, to criticize the Cardinal is to criticize each person in each pew globally, you claim.
That is just bullshit.

[Vashta Nerada]

120. The Catholic church has no business in politics.

Simple. As. That.

[struggle4progress]

127. We should take the stand that only those who agree with us are entitled to political views?

[Vashta Nerada]

137. And what's the point of tax-exempt statuses for churches?

If they enter politics, they have to pay taxes.

How much in back taxes does the RCC owe in the US?

[struggle4progress]

142. This thread isn't about tax-exemptions for 501(c)(3) organizations

Maybe if you object to such tax-exemptions, you should start your own thread on that topic

[Vashta Nerada]

144. You have an interesting user name.

No progress can be made unless we ditch religion, especially the RCC.

[struggle4progress]

146. "Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress

of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
West India Emancipation
Frederick Douglass
Canandaigua, New York
August 3, 1857

Your analysis is sloppy. The modern tools for mass production of consciousness and industrial-scale manipulation of consciousness are the media: in today's highly-integrated economy, they are largely controlled by huge conglomerates having very definite material interests in economic sectors other than the media, and they propagandize accordingly.

[Vashta Nerada]

147. There's no progress when people keep admiring homophobes.

[Humanist_Activist]

133. You reduce homosexuality to "sexual urges"?!?! How fucking atrocious is that?

What. The. Fuck?

Also, what the fuck is up with the scare quotes?

Seriously, I alerted on this post for being homophobic, I'll come right out and say it now, I hope its deleted, this is some offensive bullshit, and the worst part is you did NOT, in this entire post, make a clear point about your opinion on the subject, hoping to hide from it, I'm assuming because if we knew your real opinion on homosexuality, you would probably be PPR'd.

[struggle4progress]

149. Regarding the supposed "scare quotes," see my #148

[Humanist_Activist]

136. Also, you lie in your subject line, there is a broad consensus that homosexuality is one of a...

spectrum of sexuality that isn't considered pathological, dealing with which sex (if any) you are attracted to.

[struggle4progress]

141. It is certainly true that there is such consensus; I never anywhere stated anything to the contrary;

nor did I anywhere suggest that said consensus was incorrect or ill-founded

[Humanist_Activist]

145. This paragraph is what pisses me off most...

The general current medical attitude towards sexual minorities, as I understand it, is that patients should be treated with understanding and dignity but (depending on individual proclivities) it may be appropriate to counsel patients against risky behavior and that in some occasional cases intervention may be required if the patient poses a threat to self or others. In particular, the now widely-accepted psychiatric view seems to be that "homosexuality" should not be regarded as requiring psychiatric treatment if the patient experiences no psychiatric distress from his/her sexual urges, but when patients do experience psychiatric distress from their "homosexuality" their distress can be properly addressed and "treated" by psychiatric means

It really brings up so many fucking questions about how you view homosexuals and sexuality in general, but let me start with this question, why is it necessary to counsel "homosexuals&quot to mirror your scare quotes) against risky behavior? What behaviors may pose a risk to themselves and/or others that don't also apply to heterosexuals, bisexual, or any other *-sexual? Also, can you give an example of this intervention that would be required? Also, can you give an example of psychiatric distress being caused by "homosexuality" rather than being imposed on the person due to preexisting beliefs about homosexuals? Oh, and give an example of the type of treatment a patient would expect from this.

[struggle4progress]

148. Good physicians always try to know their patients and the particular risks those patients

may face for individual reasons. Smokers are counseled not to smoke. Sexually active young women may require information about birth control. People who are sexually promiscuous are warned about the importance of infection protection and the advisability of certain vaccinations. Some patients should be advised of possible sequelae to anal intercourse

I did not put "homosexuality" in "scare quotes" but placed it in quotes because it seems possible to me that the term "homosexuality" may not admit a clear and unambiguous definition, beyond the fact that a person might self-identify as "homosexual" -- just as it seems to me that "black" as an alleged signifier of the social concept "race" cannot be defined better than by self-identification, as the Census Bureau recognized many decades ago. I suspect this lack of clarity and this ambiguity might explain why it took so long for the American Psychiatric Association, and later the American Psychological Association, to remove "homosexuality" as a diagnosis: if the concept is ill-defined, in the scientific sense, then it merely becomes an empty receptacle into which various people can pour their own meanings, before descending into a long pointless argument about how to diagnose "homosexuality" and how to "treat" it

[Humanist_Activist]

151. I didn't know anal intercourse was unique to "homosexuals"...

also, as far as I'm aware of, there is little ambiguity here, a homosexual is someone who is primarily attracted to the same sex, a heterosexual is someone who is primarily attracted to the opposite sex, bisexuals are attracted to both, and just to be clear, the lines may be fuzzy, but that doesn't discount these widely accepted definitions.

If you want to go all Kinsey scale, that's fine, but its still no justification for putting "homosexual" in quotes as if the classification isn't a useful, working, classification.

Frankly, you seem rather ignorant of not just human sexuality, but human behavior in general. I'd advise that you not comment on it further until you educate yourself.

[Humanist_Activist]

153. Also, I'd like to point out, you avoided most of my questions to create your uninformative...

side track on the scare quotes. I found them jarring and disconcerting, apparently with good reason. But they weren't the main thrust of my post. Answer the questions.

[RainDog]

75. So, contribute to a sperm or egg bank and you're good to go!

I don't know if the Vatican opposes turkey basting, so to speak.

[PeaceNikki]

77. only when used by boy-girl couples, I'm sure

Since they have strong opinions on gays raising children in general. I'm pretty sure Francis called it "abuse".

[RainDog]

78. yeah

I was just joking at their expense.

[justiceischeap]

97. I thought God didn't make mistakes?

If homosexuality is a defect, that means God made a mistake when he made all of us homosexuals and aren't the Christians always saying God doesn't make mistakes?

[HockeyMom]

113. My daughter is not a defect

Any more than I am a defect for being short, brown eyed, and female. Didn't a certain German Chancellor 40 years ago believe in these "defects" too? What did THAT lead to?

[SidDithers]

117. In 1974?...

Sid

[cprise]

115. The Catholic Church is still about creating baby incubators

You are "defective" if you don't produce children, overpopulation and all.

[Zorra]

118. I'd feel a lot sorrier for these poor deprived old religious guys if they weren't so hateful. nt

[GRACIEBIRD]

119. The context is important

If homosexuality is a genetic trait, it is similar to red hair, brown hair, green eyes or blue eyes. If one is born a certain manner, how can you request a recovery or a cure? Homosexuality is clearly a genetic characteristic in a minority of humans, but how can prejudice be attracted to a natural condition? Most of the world sees homosexual people as people no different than others and receiving no additional scrutiny or special treatment.

[FreeState]

128. "Most of the world sees homosexual people as people no different than others"

Most of the world sees homosexual people as people no different than others and receiving no additional scrutiny or special treatment.

Really? You can't be serious.

[GRACIEBIRD]

159. Perhaps I should clarify

[quote]Most of the civilized world sees homosexual people as people no different than others and receiving no additional scrutiny or special treatment.[/quote]

Do you find that more accurate?

[RKP5637]

143. Yet more vicious slander from the RCC, one of the most persecutory

institutions on earth always with pious leaders who are often freaks. Hopefully, one day, humans can learn to think for themselves than rolling around in hostilities and prejudicial behavior. Hopefully, one day, humans can be cured of religion and the mind bending harm that comes from religion.

[theHandpuppet]

150. Just in case some folks would like a refresher

http://www.democrats.org/democratic-national-platform#protecting-rights

Protecting Rights and Freedoms

Civil Rights. We believe in an America where everybody gets a fair shot and everybody plays by the same set of rules. At the core of the Democratic Party is the principle that no one should face discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, language, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability status. Democrats support our civil rights statutes and we have stepped up enforcement of laws that prohibit discrimination in the workplace and other settings. We are committed to protecting all communities from violence. We are committed to ending racial, ethnic, and religious profiling and requiring federal, state, and local enforcement agencies to take steps to eliminate the practice, and we continue to support enforcement of Title VI. We are committed to equal opportunity for all Americans and to making sure that every American is treated equally under the law.

"Because of ‘Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' each time I went off to war, no one was at the armory to say goodbye. No one was waiting at the airport when I returned. My partner, George Di Salvo, and I started a family five years ago by adopting two wonderful boys. But I kept their existence secret, because that's what the law required. Not anymore, however. Thanks to the unyielding efforts of President Obama, I can serve my country openly and proudly with my family by my side."—Dr. Vito Imbasciani, Colonel, California National Guard, Medical Service Corps

We are committed to ensuring full equality for women: we reaffirm our support for the Equal Rights Amendment, recommit to enforcing Title IX, support the Paycheck Fairness Act, and will urge ratification of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. We know that putting America back to work is Job One, and we are committed to ensuring that Americans do not face employment discrimination. We support the Employment Non- Discrimination Act because people should not be fired based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.

President Obama and the Democratic Party are committed to ensuring all Americans are treated fairly. This administration hosted the first-ever White House Conference on Bullying Prevention and we must continue our work to prevent vicious bullying of young people and support LGBT youth. The President's record, from ending "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in full cooperation with our military leadership, to passing the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, to ensuring same-sex couples can visit each other in the hospital, reflects Democrats' belief that all Americans deserve the same chance to pursue happiness, earn a living, be safe in their communities, serve their country, and take care of the ones they love. The Administration has said that the word ‘family' in immigration includes LGBT relationships in order to protect bi-national families threatened with deportation.

Women. President Obama—the son of a single mother and the father of two daughters—understands that women aren't a special interest group. They are more than half of this country, and issues that affect women also affect families. That is why the first bill he signed into law was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which helps women fight back when they are paid less than men, and why we continue to fight to overcome Republican opposition and pass the Paycheck Fairness Act to help stop gender discrimination in pay before it starts. And that is why the Justice Department and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, led by President Obama's appointees, have investigated and prosecuted numerous violations of the nation's civil rights laws, and obtained more than $140 million in relief for victims of gender discrimination. We Democrats will continue to support efforts to ensure that workers can combat gender discrimination in the workplace and to protect women against pregnancy discrimination. And that's why we support passing the Healthy Families Act, broadening the Family and Medical Leave Act, and partnering with states to move toward paid leave.

We understand that economic issues are women's issues, and the challenges of supporting and raising a family are often primarily a woman's responsibility. That's why putting Americans back to work is Job One. That's why the Affordable Care Act especially helps women by guaranteeing they and their families won't become uninsured when they lose their jobs. That's why this administration strengthened Medicare and Medicaid for millions of women and families. And that's why the Affordable Care Act is ending health insurance discrimination against women, and provides women with free access to preventive care, including prenatal screenings, mammograms, cervical cancer screening, breast-feeding supports, and contraception.

"I know firsthand the injustice of gender discrimination in pay: for years I was paid less than my male colleagues, and it took an anonymous note from a colleague to tip me off to the fact that I was being denied equal pay for equal work. I also know firsthand that President Obama takes these issues seriously: the first bill that he signed into law was focused on making sure that other women don't face the same injustice. While the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act won't change my story, I couldn't be prouder of the legislation that bears my name, and I know who is standing up for women and families."—Lilly Ledbetter

We understand that women's rights are civil rights. That's why we reaffirm our support for the ERA, recommit to enforcing Title IX, and will urge ratification of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. That's why we are committed to ending violence against women, why Vice President Joe Biden originally wrote and championed the Violence Against Women Act during his time in the Senate, and why we support reauthorizing and strengthening it now.

The President and the Democratic Party believe that women have a right to control their reproductive choices. Democrats support access to affordable family planning services, and President Obama and Democrats will continue to stand up to Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood health centers. The Affordable Care Act ensures that women have access to contraception in their health insurance plans, and the President has respected the principle of religious liberty. Democrats support evidence-based and age-appropriate sex education.

Protecting A Woman's Right to Choose. The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way. We also recognize that health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. We strongly and unequivocally support a woman's decision to have a child by providing affordable health care and ensuring the availability of and access to programs that help women during pregnancy and after the birth of a child, including caring adoption programs.

Freedom to Marry. We support the right of all families to have equal respect, responsibilities, and protections under the law. We support marriage equality and support the movement to secure equal treatment under law for same-sex couples. We also support the freedom of churches and religious entities to decide how to administer marriage as a religious sacrament without government interference.

We oppose discriminatory federal and state constitutional amendments and other attempts to deny equal protection of the laws to committed same-sex couples who seek the same respect and responsibilities as other married couples. We support the full repeal of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act and the passage of the Respect for Marriage Act.

[brooklynite]

152. I always knew I was a failure...

...of course, I'm heterosexual, but I just never wanted kids. Unfortunately I've been snipped so I can't "recover".

[MrsKirkley]

154. Here's what happens to people who try to "cure" homosexuality:

If they force themselves to form relationships with people of the opposite sex, all attraction is one-sided. If they marry someone of the opposite sex, it's even worse. Who wants to spend the rest of their lives with someone that isn't attracted to them and never wants to have sex?

[Heywood J]

158. Perhaps he should cure his high blood pressure

with the same methods the Church used to "cure" those it called heretics, witches, and infidels.

"MORE WEIGHT!"