at an emotional level. There is a visceral hatred of the very term Nazi. It is overused, but many things could in fact be a pathway to that hated status.
I remembered this one thread where the author was just short of furious about the surveillance state. The author even talked about it becoming a police state. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023080104 It was an utter rejection of the arguments for the NSA/FBI/CIA/DHS/Does anyone really know who isn't involved in the surveillance.
What was interesting was the author used the term Police State. Two of the most famous Police State's in history were the Soviet Union, and Nazi Germany. Travel documents, passes to move from one region to another, secret police stationed in every town, police with unlimited power to detain, arrest, torture, even eliminate. We obviously don't have that. However to travel we don't require passes, but we are required to have a Identification that provides Biometric data, backed by documentation, that complies with the Real ID act. If you don't have such an identification, you can't board an airplane, or train. But our travel is not restricted, with checkpoints at random locations, unless you're driving near the border, or past a random TSA checkpoint, or a random "safety checkpoint". Then compliance is mandatory.
The Gestapo and the KGB used sophisticated computer systems (for their era) to track known associates in an effort to locate undesirables. For the Gestapo, it was an effort to track the Jews which in the worldview of Hitler was the same as a Communist. The KGB used to track dissidents and Jews were never trusted. But we don't have that, unless you count all the NSA/FBI/DHS/CIA programs that are able to identify each of us with all our electronic communication data including content. I've posted before that the systems we set up were the wildest dreams of those organizations.
So why do we use Nazi's? Because the KGB hasn't had as many books and movies made about them. Because most people don't know who the Stasi were. Because if you asked a majority of the people who the Savak were, they would look at you with that utterly clueless expression on their face that shows absolute ignorance. But the Nazi's are a group that everyone can instantly identify and understand at a level unlike anything else.
The author of that other piece is and was right, we are living in a surveillance state. We have a check to unlimited authority of Government agents, so long as it does it's job, the court. But as was demonstrated in history, the power of the court is only as strong as the desire of those to obey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia
President Jackson was essentially willing to thumb his nose at the Supreme Court. It took months for the order of the court to be carried out, if you can imagine it. So there have been dangerous precedents in our history where the executive branch threatened to become far more than one third of the Government. And you can see the fear of the people, because like an atomic bomb, there is no margin for error, and any misuse would be catastrophic in the results.
We are not living in a version of Nazi Germany, on that I agree. We are much closer to that undesirable state than I would have imagined a generation ago. We are not living in the nation I once knew, and that is most disturbing to me. And you want to know the really sad part? If we go into full fledged police state here, with the technology we have, we will outdo the Nazi's by substantial margin. We will become the next example in history should that sad day come. Then, a hundred years from now, children in school will be arguing about how evil the FBI/DHS/CIA/NSA were and how stupid the people were to let them grow so powerful. Or those children will be brainwashed and denouncing those who warned of abusive government.
It isn't just where we are, it's where we are headed. It isn't this moment on the journey, but the destination we're headed for that frightens so many, including myself. No, I am not suggesting that President Obama wants any of this. I'm saying that the Government has become so powerful that they don't really answer to anyone, and yes there are historical examples of that too. Under FDR the Army started a program called Venona. They didn't tell FDR, nor did they tell Truman about it. Eisenhower knew when he was elected because he was one of those Army officers briefed in on the project when he was in Uniform. Hoover knew about it, and he agreed that the President didn't need to know what the Government was doing.
President Obama has told us that he didn't realize the extent of the NSA/FBI/DHS/CIA programs. What makes us think that he is aware of them now? We know that those involved will lie to the people empowered with oversight. We know that they will lie to the press. We know that they don't report to the President, so what makes us think they're telling the truth now? One of the lessons I've learned in this life is that a liar, will not stop lying just because he's caught in one lie.
= new reply since forum marked as read
