Older Brains Slow Due to Greater Experience, Rather Than Cognitive Decline

[babylonsister]

Phew!

http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2014/01/older-brains-slow-due-greater-experience-rather-cognitive-decline


Older Brains Slow Due to Greater Experience, Rather Than Cognitive Decline
Tue, 01/21/2014 - 2:30pm




What happens to our cognitive abilities as we age? Traditionally it is thought that age leads to a steady deterioration of brain function, but new research in Topics in Cognitive Science argues that older brains may take longer to process ever increasing amounts of knowledge, and this has often been misidentified as declining capacity.

The study, led by Dr. Michael Ramscar of the University of Tuebingen, takes a critical look at the measures that are usually thought to show that our cognitive abilities decline across adulthood. Instead of finding evidence of decline, the team discovered that most standard cognitive measures are flawed, confusing increased knowledge for declining capacity.

Dr. Ramscar's team used computers, programmed to act as though they were humans, to read a certain amount each day, learning new things along the way. When the researchers let a computer 'read' a limited amount, its performance on cognitive tests resembled that of a young adult.

However, if the same computer was exposed data which represented a lifetime of experiences its performance looked like that of an older adult. Often it was slower, not because its processing capacity had declined, but because increased "experience" had caused the computer's database to grow, giving it more data to process, and that processing takes time.

"What does this finding mean for our understanding of our aging minds, for example older adults' increased difficulties with word recall? These are traditionally thought to reveal how our memory for words deteriorates with age, but Big Data adds a twist to this idea," said Dr. Ramscar. "Technology now allows researchers to make quantitative estimates about the number of words an adult can be expected to learn across a lifetime, enabling the team to separate the challenge that increasing knowledge poses to memory from the actual performance of memory itself."

"Imagine someone who knows two people's birthdays and can recall them almost perfectly. Would you really want to say that person has a better memory than a person who knows the birthdays of 2000 people, but can 'only' match the right person to the right birthday nine times out of ten?" asks Ramscar.

"It is time we rethink what we mean by the aging mind before our false assumptions result in decisions and policies that marginalize the old or waste precious public resources to remediate problems that do not exist," said Topics in Cognitive Science, Editors Wayne Gray and Thomas Hills.

[The Magistrate]

1. In Other Words, Ma'am, Us Old Folks Are Just Full Of It....

[babylonsister]

3. Yes we are, my friend!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

2. Reminds me of how the RW thinks Bumper Stickers are "smarter" than a bill that's toooooooooooooooooo

many pages long.

[Whisp]

4. Takes a bit more time to go through all those file cabinets!

hahah, I like this.

I will keep it filed.

[freshwest]

16. That's my thought. You don't forget what you learned before, you have to work check it with older

data and analyze how it's different and if it's relevant. Then transpose older terms into newer ones to talk to those who never knew the other stuff.

Those who only learned a way of looking at things in their youth, find conflicting data that must be taken into account as they grow older. At several times in one's life. one is using certain knowledge daily, refining it, adding to it, one appears quick and proficient, thus 'smart.' When it is no longer useful, it fades but can be sparked again if needed.

When a new system is presented, the old data does not go away and the new structure must be integrated into the knowledge base of the mind's architecture. Sans an injury or illness, the brain should continue to make new connections until one dies or deliberately changes one's focus to the past for comfort, leisure or profit.

In other words, there may be some truth in the expression, 'I forgot more than you'll ever know.'

[RKP5637]

30. I switched to CDs, seems a bit faster. Was using tapes, but they kept breaking! lol n/t

[frwrfpos]

5. interesting article

rec but i find the premise and the conclusion are inaccurate

[NJCher]

25. bravo for you

Like Kim Guadagno--throw something out there with no backup, no explanation, nothing.

"The mayor's version is false...illogical..."

How about you define the premise and then tell us why it's inaccurate. Then tell us how you read the conclusion and also tell us why it's inaccurate.

Sheesh.


Cher

[frwrfpos]

29. ok

because the premise is age slows the brain..it does by killing synaptic connections over time. the human brain loses millions of cells due to cellular death every day

the conclusion is because of brain retention ie memory..somehow it slows due to processing.

garbage science

we lose brain function over time due to brain cellular death

a course in microbio or even an intro to neuroscience describes the functional biology of the human brain

save the head smacking for a more important topic NJCher

[blackspade]

41. And as a neuroscientist you have evaluated their data?

This is a promising study that indicates that many older folks have no cognitive loss.
Rather, they have to analyze and compare new data with old data.

Cellular death is indeed an issue for some elderly and can be caused by blood flow issues and disease among other things.
The simple act of aging may or may not be the underlying issue.

In fact, both may be correct. Due to cellular necrosis it may take longer to access information as well as process it.

Your determination of 'garbage science' is unwarranted.

[frwrfpos]

46. considering the lack of data i will stand by my comment

you are not talking to an amateur poster. my first degree choice was cognitive neuro and that was back on 1999 when the field was in it s toddler stages..ive debugged c code for mri imaging software for awhile

the data is in fact faulty blackspade

[blackspade]

48. Then we have to agree to disagree.

I think it is a cool peer reviewed study that sheds a lot of light on how the brain develops as we age.

[frwrfpos]

49. we will agree to disagree

i respect your opinion and i do agree to different points of view. i am open to all ideas

[blackspade]

50. fair enough!

[cbayer]

66. Peer reviewed by who? Where?

[blackspade]

68. The editorial board of the Journal of the Cognitive Science Society

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2014, 12:32 PM - Edit history (1)

You know, 1 executive editor, 12 associate editors, and a 30 member editorial committee.

On edit: These folks:

This research was funded in part by an Alexander von Humboldt research award to Harald Baayen. We are grateful to Denis Arnold, Melody Dye, Wayne Gray, Thomas Hills, Mike Jones, Rheinhold Kliegl, Mark Liberman, Bradley Love, Tim McNamara, Robert Port, Rich Schiffrin, Fabian Tomaschek, and Chris Turnbury, who, along with two anonymous reviewers, provided us with many helpful comments on these ideas.

If you have issues with the findings, I'm all ears, although it may take a while to process it due to my age.

[cbayer]

69. I have a lot of issues with the findings.

But I do concede that it was published in a peer reviewed journal.

The ONLY conclusion that can be drawn from these studies is that computers learn slower as they accumulate more data.

There is absolutely nothing that would lend any validity to extrapolating this to the human brain. Nothing.

And the evidence that flies in the face of this is overwhelming.

This is a completely irrelevant set of studies looking for some point of relevance by trying to make a connection to human aging.

It's bunk.

[chrisa]

63. Frwrpos has the right idea, though.

A claim by one professor is not fact. People see the word "Dr." and instantly take what follows as an absolute truth.

Science is a collection of maybes and mights, along with trial by error. I would love to see further research on this topic.

[caraher]

45. Lead with your reasoning and it spares everyone the head smacks

You knew what was on your mind, but the rest of us couldn't, and it's pretty common to see people dismiss ideas out of hand based on prejudice rather than reflection.

Did you read the article? The researchers propose a different mechanism that would slow responses, that is not mutually exclusive with the cellular death mechanism. The research suggests that, even absent degradation in processing power, responses can slow as a result of years of learning.

There's a LOT to criticize about the study, of course (starting with the validity of their computer model as a simulation of human brains!), and the article provides little detail on their methods. But if this new mechanism is truly pertinent, how much functional change is cell biology and how much is related to general information processing principles becomes a very interesting question!

[frwrfpos]

51. science demands open access and reproducibility

this study has neither. their methods are also vague. this is not science

[cbayer]

67. Absolutely agree.

[Progressive dog]

70. You are right about the study

which compared the speed of computers. The outcome was known in advance. Computers are not human brains.
I thought that it might have been posted by the onion, thanks for saying it.

[Logical]

55. LOL, thanks for the detailed analysis! nt

[orpupilofnature57]

6. Yes!!!! I'm putting this on whipper-snappers tomorrow .

[scarletwoman]

7. HAH!, I say. HAH!

Now get off my lawn before I hit you with my cane!

[babylonsister]

9. Hahaha!

Well, it also gives oldsters the ability to not give a shit, because they've earned the right to be ornery. Just ask my dad!

[PowerToThePeople]

8. you are aware of more things

As you age more variables come into play with every choice. The equations become increasingly difficult to "solve." We try to simplify them into solvable forms. "Oh, to be young without a care in the world" is not too far off...

Very cool. I love being exposed to new insights...

[loudsue]

10. I think older cultures realized this without the help of computers, and they respected elders

In the Super Bowl of the USA, not so much.

I've been thinking that for a while now. It is sometimes hard for me to reach the right word at the exact moment I want it, but I have a whole lot more knowledge to file through.

That's DU's fault.

[tavernier]

11. I can usually answer most any Jeopardy question...

It just takes me a loooong time!

[Duer 157099]

12. That's right. And printers keep printing smaller and smaller letters

[babylonsister]

24. Smartass.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. I always liked Andy Rooney's theory on aging and memory.

He figured that when you got old you had learned so many things that your brain was full. Therefore, before you could learn anything new, something old had to go to make room for it.

[Coyotl]

14. Remember that first time you couldn't remember a word?

[babylonsister]

20. I just had a good laugh, so thanks!

Yup, I'm old(er). Never give in!

[KoKo]

21. LOL's and so true...from the different perspectives!

[pinboy3niner]

15. What do you call that...?

Two elderly couples were enjoying friendly conversation when one of the men asked the other, "Fred, how was the memory clinic you went to last month?"

"Outstanding," Fred replied. "They taught us all the latest psychological techiniques-visulization, association-it made a huge difference for me."

"That's great! What was the name of the clinic?"

Fred went blank. He thought and thought, but couldn't remember.

Then a smile broke across his face and he asked, "What do you call that flower with the long stem and thorns?"

"You mean a rose?"

"Yes, that's it!" He turned to his wife. . ."Rose, what was the name of that clinic?"

http://www.ahajokes.com/age49.html

[babylonsister]

18. Bwhahaha! So that blows that theory.

[liberal N proud]

17. Just like a computer slows over time.

[Nye Bevan]

22. I think you're onto something. I need to defrag my brain and remove all its malaware (nt)

[babylonsister]

27. Ha! I think that malware applies to

everyone-but how to defrag the brain?

[orpupilofnature57]

59. I use this .

&list=RD020wSUnuq7HPM

[blackspade]

43. Much less so than a faux news viewer!

Those are folks in serious need of a factory reset.

[KoKo]

19. Logical...We have to go through our Hard Drives to Process years of Stuff...

Memories, Facts, Figures....

Maybe when they implant our brains with faster chips we all can do better. But, one shouldn't compare the amount of storage and experience to sort through of a 20,30 even 40 year old with someone 55 and beyond.

It's just too much processing which takes longer and I've seen it with my elderly relatives. They just have so many memories and facts stored up it takes awhile...and most people want to rush at them and expect them to be like the people who 'service them' in medical and other places they have to deal with.

Heck...it's taking me longer to process things these days than it used to!

Nice post....Thanks! I wondered when someone was going to figure this out and do some studies to verify. Of course this isn't the final research...but, it's logical...so we shall see.

[NV Whino]

23. Good, I like this.

[DJ13]

26. Sounds like they need to develop a defrag program

[ohheckyeah]

28. It makes sense...

if the brain is like a file cabinet or a computer hard drive, the fuller they are, the longer it takes to find something. I wonder if people who read a lot tend to take longer to find the right word since the brain is so full of words.

[babylonsister]

31. I think that's true. If you have a full

vocabulary, you 'know' there's a word to get to the point. I always try, but am not always successful.

[marybourg]

33. +1

[ohheckyeah]

52. I hate it when a word is just right there...

on the tip of my brain, and I just can't pull it up.

[defacto7]

32. The only thing I have to say is....

Where did I put those damn glasses??

[laundry_queen]

47. Well, if you're like my grandmother, they are on your head. nt

[defacto7]

57. Oh... there they are!

[Javaman]

34. I knew it! My brain is so full of stuff that I...that I...

what was I saying?

[babylonsister]

36. snort! Yea. nt

[ReRe]

35. This reminds me of something on DemocracyNow.org today...

... Amy goodman is in Utah for the Sundance Film Festival and there's a documentary about "Music Therapy" for senior citizens suffering from Alzheimer's. Did anyone see it? She had a great show today. I suggest you listen to the whole show, but this particular clip is during the last 20 minutes or so of the show. It's the story of a very insightful physical therapist who had the idea to bring her ipod and earphones and put them on one of the patients to see if it helped them. What happened was a miracle. The documentary is supposed to be on HBO in the next few months, but Amy shows clips of it. Check. It. Out! It's unbelievable!

[babylonsister]

38. Sounds wonderful! You mentioned a clip? nt

[ReRe]

40. Yes...

The first part of the show was on another documentary, but a sad one, on domestic abuse. I don't know how to bring up the clip for you, but you can click here to see it:

http://www.DemocracyNow.org

That will take you today's show. I promise, you are going to love this story. It truly is a miracle.

[babylonsister]

44. I promise you,

I made so many of my older posts from Democracy Now. Keep on! They do, it's your turn!

[seveneyes]

37. We need an on demand defrag for the brain

Over time the data are scattered all over the place in our heads.

[niyad]

39. this confirms what I have thought for years--wished that there was a delete bin where you could

just dump all the stuff running around in your brain that you no longer wanted. what a handy thing. some people told me I was asking for the impossible--but it is clear that a good many people have not only done that, they have managed to delete the entire operating system.

[babylonsister]

42. I haven't deleted it all, but

I am working on it. Find out what's important. So simple.

[Silent3]

53. Uh... wuh? Sorry, I was just having an "experienced" moment. n/t

[babylonsister]

54. Ha! I

have a lot of them!

[mercymechap]

56. Well dayum,

that sure is encouraging to hear......

[Egalitarian Thug]

58. What I've learned along these lines is that the idea that wisdom comes with age was

almost certainly created and propelled by old fools. Brilliant young people become brilliant middles aged people and then brilliant old people, just as stupid is forever.

If you don't get it, you probably never will.

[Shankapotomus]

60. So how does this study explain

Louie Gomert? Is that idiot really just more experienced?

I have my doubts.

[Little Star]

61. I've always thought of my mind having a file room with a little guy who...

runs around to find the information I've requested. I tell my family that now the file room is stuffed and the file guy is older and moves a little slower than before. He still eventually gets what I need 99.9% of the time, thank heavens!

[MineralMan]

64. Interesting hypothesis, but tested using computers rather than humans.

When the hypothesis has been tested with humans, perhaps it will be shown to be valid, and perhaps it will not.

Since we don't actually understand how the human brain works very well, we really can't set up a computer to act like one yet. That makes this experiment a little sketchy. Until the concept has been tested on actual humans, it's just a hypothesis.

Interesting, though. As an aging human at age 68, I look at my own capabilities. I find some deficits, but also some strengths that appear to be age related. But, that's just me, and an individual piece of data doesn't really mean much. Human tests of this hypothesis may produce a different result than this computer scientist thinks.

[CFLDem]

72. Exactly

[cbayer]

65. This is some of the worst "science" I have ever seen and the findings are completely and

totally bogus.

And I can't believe that people in general don't have the basic skills needed to asses an article like this and see it for what it is.

It is frankly embarrassing that this has so many recommendations here.

[tavalon]

71. I've thought this, often of late

I find that I refuse to memorize things because there's already so much useful information in my grey matter that I don't want to clutter it further.

[Paper Roses]

73. Great! now I have an excuse. n/t