"databases of ruin"

[grasswire]

From Snowden's Q&A today:

The first [effect of surveillance on society] is the chilling effect, which is well-understood. Study after study has show that human behavior changes when we know we’re being watched. Under observation, we act less free, which means we effectively *are* less free.

The second, less understood but far more sinister effect of these classified programs, is that they effectively create “permanent records” of our daily activities, even in the absence of any wrongdoing on our part. This enables a capability called “retroactive investigation,” where once you come to the government’s attention, they’ve got a very complete record of your daily activity going back, under current law, often as far as five years. You might not remember where you went to dinner on June 12th 2009, but the government does.

The power these records represent can’t be overstated. In fact, researchers have referred to this sort of data gathering as resulting in “databases of ruin,” where harmful and embarrassing details exist about even the most innocent individuals. The fact that these records are gathered without the government having any reasonable suspicion or probable cause justifying the seizure of data is so divorced from the domain of reason as to be incapable of ever being made lawful at all, and this view was endorsed as recently as today by the federal government’s Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight board.

Fundamentally, a society in which the pervasive monitoring of the sum of civil activity becomes routine is turning from the traditions of liberty toward what is an inherently illiberal infrastructure of preemptive investigation, a sort of quantified state where the least of actions are measured for propriety. I don’t seek to pass judgment in favor or against such a state in the short time I have here, only to declare that it is not the one we inherited, and should we as a society embrace it, it should be the result of public decision rather than closed conference.

[Blue_Tires]

1. That last sentence irks the hell out of me

I've just never understood building such a detailed and multi-layered argument in his interviews while always needing to slip in some generalized, overly cautious "out"...

If he supposedly doesn't want to "pass judgment in favor or against such a state," then what the hell has this whole thing been about, then??

[Luminous Animal]

2. "In the short time we have here"

Perhaps he does judge but felt it wasn't the best forum to further the discussion.

[PowerToThePeople]

3. public decision.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2313338

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." (as cited in Padover, 1939, p. 89)

". . . whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that, whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them right." (as cited in Padover, 1939, p. 88)

[Blue_Tires]

5. If it was strictly left up to "public" decision

I shudder to think how many more decades it would have been before emancipation....

[PowerToThePeople]

8. FYI

This is DemocraticUnderground.com

Imo, you can not have a Democracy where the citizenry is withheld pertinent information in regards to the government's activities.

[grasswire]

10. excellent quotes, thanks nt

[Agony]

4. He answered your question in the part of the sentence you left off...

"should we as a society embrace it, it should be the result of public decision rather than closed conference", that is what the hell this is all about.

[Blue_Tires]

6. I read that part...Still doesn't make any more sense to me...

[Fumesucker]

9. If the people don't want it after it's been openly discussed then that's it, no more

On the other hand if the people find they do want it after accurately knowing the details and public discussion of the same then that's cool too.

But the informed discussion should take place.

Difficult to make important decisions without good information.

[WillyT]

7. K & R !!!