Where did this whole democratic party = communist come from on the right

[Arcanetrance]

I'm debating someone who swears up and down that's the truth even after I pulled up the website of the United States communist party and showed him the difference right in their stated goals compared to what's the current democratic party. I mean where the hell did this idea on the right come from

[1000words]

1. Lack of education?

[IDemo]

2. Binary thinking

Good/evil, heaven/hell, black/white. You're either a white evangelical Reagan republican or a Marxist. There are no gray areas in their thinking, or very few.

[hootinholler]

7. 10 kinds of thought

in a binary world.

[IDemo]

8. I either do or don't understand binary ;)

[el_bryanto]

3. Mostly the red scare of the 1950s, Nixon and McCarthy

The Republicans hadn't had the white house in some 20 years, they felt sidelined in their own country. When they saw an opportunity to paint the Democrats as Commies, they seized it.

I think it's mutated since then - you throw in the crazy paranoia of J. Edger Hoover for example, and Alger Hiss, and others, and the fact that there really were some commies in the government (although they blew it out of proportion), then the John Birch society, normal American Xenophobia, the fear of blacks and cities, and it all becomes a toxic stew.

I don't think most republicans are calling us communist with any understanding of the term - they mostly just mean "not American."

Bryant

[Arcanetrance]

6. That's another thing who are they to decide who is a American

[blkmusclmachine]

4. Faux Nooz

[hootinholler]

5. From your frustration?

It's pretty near the bottom of the barrel as far as things go to call democrats.

The only apropos response to that notion is laughter.

[Journeyman]

9. There's the problem: Your pulling up a website, they're pulling it out their ass . . .

[cheyanne]

10. I can't tell you where it came from but when I used to listen to

right wing radio in the '90's, and they were still fighting against the "commies" and "hippies" of the '60's. I thought it was quite funny at the time, but now I sigh that somehow they still are still doing it. The fear of commies was left over from the cold war and the fear of hippies from the vietnam war.

War always brings out the fear of others.

I always thought that they didn't have enough faith in democracy that it wouldn't fall to communist takeover.

[Control-Z]

11. The John Birch Society.

Many years ago.

[Bigmack]

12. I have a couple of tests...

Question 1... Is the earth approximately 4 Billion years old.. or approximately 10,000?

Question 2... Did humans evolve from other forms of life?

Question 3... What is the difference between socialism and communism?

If they don't know, say it's 10,000 and say no to evolution....

I have nothing to say to them. Family... Facebook friends... strangers... posters on blogs... wherever.

That's simply because I live in a different world.

I've stopped trying to convince the un-convincible and the proudly willfully ignorant.

[Arcanetrance]

14. That approach is probably better for my mental health

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. It started back in the pleistoscene

when them reds became a problem. It precedes the modern parties to be honest, as it goes back to the 1830s, and it also precedes Marx and a few others.

To think that the first red scare was a democratic pursuit... anyhow to answer your question.

In it's modern form it got hardened with the New Deal.

[Warpy]

15. From the John Birchers

whose utter and complete ignorance about anything outside their own mansions has now infected that party completely.

Daddy Koch would be so proud.

[Arcanetrance]

16. Sometimes I really wish time travel was possible

[bobthedrummer]

46. Spot on imo-just same old fascistic core cult beliefs updated a bit

The John Birch Society (The Center for Media and Democracy/SourceWatch)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/John_Birch_Society

[MrSunNShineNYC]

17. That's What Enemies Do

Polarities and hyperbole are the name of the game in politics, and for better or worse, rhetoric and ideas are not well tethered to political actions and positions.

But thinking about it on the political spectrum actually confuses something more simple in this case. A conservative person who has exaggerated beliefs about the Democratic Party would only choose to brand Democrats Communists over Fascists because they believe that will make more headway. The main energy behind this willful ignorance is that the Democratic party is the "other" and the "other" belongs with all my enemies, such as communism, fascism so on and so forth. So as much as I would like to fault the right for this, the aligning of your enemies is at least as old as human beings walking on two feet. That said, getting in a heated debate probably won't help find a common ground.

[Arcanetrance]

18. Common ground wasn't going to be found it started with him insulting me

Because of my beliefs. Personally I don't believe in personal insults when debating anyone it lowers the entire conversation.

[libodem]

19. From Glenn Beck

For 2 years straight on Faux Snooze, after President Obama was elected. Two straight years of disinformation.

Plus the rest of those asinine blowhards.

[Arcanetrance]

21. He really helped poison the country I know it wasn't great to begin with but it just seems worse

Everyday the racism becomes more overt and they paint us as this great enemy. I know it sounds weird but as time goes on I actually fear for my life against them as a group they're mostly armed and becoming more unhinged. I remember seeing a pickup not that long ago with a bumper sticker that was talking about a liberal hunting permit. I mean this is crazy

[libodem]

36. I hear you

It is a message of paranoia without basis and contempt without reason. The right 's narrative is driven by a Koch Bro's script of fantasy, meant to distort reality and divide the people by fear and hatred of the unknown 'other'.

[Alamuti Lotus]

20. it's a good opportunistic attack

The conservatives have spent over a century of effort invested in the idea that the "communists" are antithetical to "us". So why not associate your rivals with the "enemy" you have spent so much effort building up? It makes perfect sense, except for the fact that the conservatives are utterly fucking bonkers in most of the things said and done--but, the whole demonRAT=COMMIE=TERRIST line of logic has some consistency to it, even if it is of that bonkers/screwball mentality alluded to previously.

[ananda]

22. The right just throws out ideas like paint splatter on a wall..

.. to see what will stick.

[Starry Messenger]

23. Birchers is the short answer.

Now the right thinks anyone to the left of Ted Cruz is a Red. It's like a cult.

An interesting question to think about is why it ultimately matters to them? What do they think it means if they "prove" liberals are secretly Communists? (Disclaimer: I actually am a Communist, but I ask these questions too.)

I think some of it comes down to deep seated anxiety about losing privileges and potential status.

[Arcanetrance]

33. I like the idea behind communism I just don't believe humans have the ability

to make it work

[TBF]

40. "anxiety about losing privileges and potential status" -

Yes. Also the cold war was not all that long ago. Anyone over 50 today likely grew up in homes where being a communist was the biggest insult someone could hurl at you and that is the way they use the word today to disparage their foes. Not that it bares any resemblance to reality because the older ones (at least) know that they deported most of the serious communists years ago. The left has had to pretty much start from scratch the past generation or two.

[B Calm]

24. FOX NEWS

[JHB]

25. The roots of it go back a hundred years...

...to the income tax enacted under Wilson, which at the time was simply a surtax on the wealthy. They fanned the meme again under FDR, regarding the New Deal as "socialism" and "communism". Still, that view was pretty much confined to the fringes until the 70s, when Movement Conservativism (the Goldwater/Buckley/Reagan fan club) maneuvered themselves into the leadership of the Republicans, and started driving out liberal/moderate "Rockefeler Republicans".

Put on top of that the mainstreaming and weaponizing of rage and vitriol -- painting opponents as loathe some traitors -- by conservatives (brought to full flower by Gingrich in government and Limbaugh in the media, but don't discount their predecessors who paved the path), and the building of a billionaire-funded conservative media apparatus, and you have a bubble where the policies of he United States for all but the last years of the Cold War get described as "socialism" and "communism".

[shenmue]

26. I think it was McCarthyism a long time ago

They've hated anyone who was even a bit different from them, since then. A lot of weird conspiracy theories came into their party at the time.

[NuclearDem]

27. It's still a boogeyman that plays well with the aging Cold Warriors on the right.

[JoePhilly]

28. They think all words that end with "ism" mean the same thing.

Communism = Socialism = Fascism

They don't know the difference.

[bowens43]

29. If you beleive that the government should do anything ever to help anyone

you are a communist............right?

[Bluenorthwest]

30. From McCarthy, blacklists, from hatered of FDR and the New Deal

This is a subject you should go out and study up on, it is not a quick answer sort of thing. Folks here saying it came from the John Birch Society, a group started in 58 by Fred Koch are not really correct, John Birch Society itself was a reaction to the end of the witch hunts of the big 'red scare' which burned itself out by about 56. JBS stepped forward to fill that gap and continue the propaganda.

[spanone]

31. to reagan reTHUGS there's nothing worse than a commie

[deutsey]

32. The Right/Wall Street were terrified that the New Deal was a socialist/communist plot

The 1917 Russian Revolution really shook wealthy elites in America. They were very determined to prevent such a revolution in America, hence the first Red Scare from 1919 into the 1920s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Red_Scare

With the New Deal, they were particularly shaken. So much so, they apparently attempted a coup to oust FDR early in his first term and install a fascist strongman in his place (Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, who ended up exposing the plot).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

There are plenty of other sites about this coup attempt. Google "business plot" "fdr".

[MO_Moderate]

34. More government equals more government control over the individual

Our nation was founded on the principles of individual freedoms and limited government. The nations growth and the boom in our population has created the need for larger government and more government control, which is still pretty new to us.
Communism, socialism and fascism are recent 'examples' of government control over the individual so they are the labels used to describe those who call for more government and control.

IMO, the divineness is due to the amount of people calling for more government now equals the amount of people calling for limited government. One side says more, the other side has said enough is enough, and neither side is willing to budge.

[TBF]

41. OK, let's review -

Socialist, communists, and fascists are all different concepts.

fascism - A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

socialism - (1) Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
(2) The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

communism - A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.


It's important to understand that although we've seen communist countries that have central state control that is not necessary by definition. Marx envisioned the workers owning the means of production collectively and private ownership of property abolished (which doesn't mean it would have to be fascist or state controlled - it could be a coop type situation with workers owning collectively).

[MO_Moderate]

44. Of course they are different

The writer however, asked why the right associates those words with the far-left, not why they are wrong for doing so.
All three "concepts" require a larger and more controlling government than Americans are used to or desire. There are recent examples of all three "concepts" that enable a negative comparison to be made. A negative comparison means more support.

[TBF]

47. But socialism and communism don't

require a larger and more controlling government. They COULD mean that but don't HAVE to - that was all I was trying to point out.

But, fascism, yeah - that is definitely larger and more controlling. I don't know if I'd say Americans aren't used to it or don't desire it though. From what I've seen the mixing of government and corporations in this country has gotten to the point where there is much more control than I'd like to see (and I consider myself a libertarian communist in terms of theory).

[ronnie624]

42. The claim that conservatives prefer "limited" government is nonsense.

Conservatives in general and Republicans in particular, will happily support an expansion of government, as long as it is related to militarism or 'law enforcement'. They are authoritarian by nature, abysmally ignorant and highly susceptible to fear-mongering propaganda.

[Johonny]

35. Because the democratic party absorbed the labor movement, civil rights movement

and took up the socialist movement. Most of this occurred slowly over the period between the red scare and the 1950s McCarthy era. Why don't conservatives understand the difference between communism and social programs backed by democratic voters? They do but the marketing line works so well on a certain base of people why would they give it up.

[Rex]

37. A lack of a formal education will do that.

The GOP is chock full of people that didn't finish HS and never even considered college.

[Greybnk48]

38. Joe McCarthy and the John Birchers

Joe McCarthy was from the town where I live now and was a screaming alcoholic, among other things (according to my older relatives who grew up here). People liked him, i'm told, because he could talk to the common folk and liked to "tie one on."

The John Birch Society (founded by the Koch's father) moved their headquarters here in the early 90's. It scared us that they knew they would be o.k. here.

There are many, many good Dems in this town and area, but a strong vein of radical right wingers too. Not as bad as Waukesha County, but bad enough.

[Arcanetrance]

39. I don't see what they fear in communism there are no strong communist countries the strongest one

that claims to be communist is china and the really just pay lip service to communism they're having fun in the water of capitalism. The real amusing thing is if you mention some of the tenants to most americans without telling them where they come from they'd agree

[JHB]

43. Two factors: 1) with no USSR, there's no obvious counterpoint...

The Soviet's line was that socialism was a transitional stage to communism, so they called themselves and their client state socialist. ("soviet" being Russian for "committee", so in theory it was supposed to be run by workers' committees, but the reality was a police state)

Without the Soviets and the Warsaw Pact countries around to provide a solid definition of "socialist" (and thus, if we're not that, we're not socialist) conservatives pretty much just pushed their own definition (which amounts to anything to the left of Gilded Age robber barons) with nobody in the mainstream pushing back. (Hey, "pro-business" Democrats weren't about to be seen quibbling over that definition.) So it was kind of normalized by sheer repetition.

2) They also "cloudsourced" the motive: "communism" was no longer a subversion by a foreign power, with liberals "on orders straight from the Kremlin", it was this sort of weird ideological fog called "political correctness".

I noted back when Ed Meese made the speech that brought the term into its current usage on the right that it happened at the precise moment in history that only the most blinkered, addled dinosaur of a conservative could still use the "on orders from Moscow" line, and even he would lose the audience that used to eat that up.

That was the key: "socialism" went from something concrete to whatever conservatives say it is. Trying to pin them down with definitions is nailing jello to the wall. Ineffective.

[11 Bravo]

45. Well, it's both stupid and intellectually dishonest. Isn't that right in their wheelhouse?

After all, you go with what you know.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

48. Any of those people that say that, and they have, to me... well I just,

Point them to my Brother. He will tell you the difference. He is a Marxist. He hates people saying that as well.