Neil deGrasse Tyson: Republicans doomed to poverty because they’re ‘born into’ ignorance

[Playinghardball]

Astrophysicist and celebrity science advocate Neil deGrasse Tyson recently, and at great length, discussed the importance of scientific literacy with Bill Moyers.

Moyers began by reminding viewers of a recent Gallup poll in which 46 percent of Americans espoused the belief that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years.” Moreover, a Pew Research poll showed that two-thirds of evangelical Protestants, “the bedrock of the Republican Party, reject altogether the idea that humans have evolved.”

Belief in the theory of evolution rose among Democrats to 67 percent.

Neil deGrasse Tyson attempted to explain this partisan divide in scientific literacy by discussing the role of the democratic process in science education. Because what’s taught in classrooms is handled at the state level, many Americans are “born into” ignorance.

He says this is a “self-correcting” phenomenon, because “nobody wants to die. We all care about health. Republicans, especially, don’t want to die poor. So educated Republicans know the value of innovations in science and technology for the thriving of an economy and business industry.”

So, he believes, eventually even they won’t want to see something “that is not science in a science classroom,” because that “undermines the entire enterprise that was responsible for creating the wealth that we have come to take for granted in this country.”

There is only so long, he says, that Republicans will allow the United States to “fad[e] economically.”

“Some Republican is going to wake up and say, ‘Look guys, we got to split these two, we have to, otherwise we’ll doom ourselves to poverty.”

It’s “just a matter,” he says, “of electing into office people who know…how money gets generated

He went on to discuss the many ways in which American students lag behind their counterparts in the rest of the world when it comes to scientific literacy, blaming the “culture of testing” for teaching students how to take tests instead of imparting basic knowledge about scientific principles.

Watch the entire interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson below.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/24/neil-degrasse-tyson-republicans-doomed-to-poverty-because-theyre-born-into-ignorance/

[Adrahil]

1. Tyson is one of my heroes.... but....

he's way too optimistic on this subject. I think most of the GOP will ride their ignorance all the way down, blaming the decline in moral values and the 'welfare class" the entire way.

[Viking12]

4. Agreed on both points

Tyson rocks. Ignorance on evolution begets ignorance in other areas including self-awareness.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. I agree. And Alex Pelosi did the work. When she interviewed these people, they said

that they didn't care that they are poor. They care more about the negro in the White House. They care more about "the gays" getting married. They care more about "the Mexicans" coming over the fence. Even when they themselves received government assistance and acknowledged the hypocrisy of their anti-government stance, they simply shunned their accusers. They don't care. They'd rather die poor than for "those people" to take what they have.

He is Tyson is one of my heroes, too, but I think he's a bit naive on this issue.

[Adrahil]

23. I've heard him talk about this issue before...

... and to be fair, I think he's trying to strike an optimistic stance. But yeah.... I agree.

[napkinz]

2. what ignorance?

[Delphinus]

7. Ack!!!

[napkinz]

8. his/her parents should be very proud

He/she is an honor student!

[napkinz]

9. Florida Christian School Tells Children Atheists Don’t Understand Gravity Because God Did It

That’s right, folks! People who don’t believe in God are completely incapable of explaining why things stay down.

http://aattp.org/florida-christian-school-tells-children-atheists-dont-understand-gravity-because-god-did-it/

[rurallib]

21. so if we don't believe in God, and therefore do not understand gravity

will we float away? Could I lose a few pounds by kind of believing in God?
Let's say I am agnostic - you know, not sure - would that maybe get me about 20 pounds off or so?

[napkinz]

22. did you notice the answer said "OUR" god

So that must exclude Allah or Zeus or Clapton.

[rurallib]

30. excellent point!

note to self: not just God but the right (white?) God!

[hootinholler]

39. Clapton is good and all but a God?

I would go with either Stevie Ray Vaughn or Carlos Santana before Eric.

[FourScore]

40. THIS is heavenly...

[napkinz]

47. Eric Clapton's take on it ...

edit: when I wrote "So that must exclude Allah or Zeus or Clapton," I suppose I should have added a after it, as I was trying to be facetious.

[yourmovemonkey]

43. They shouldn't be so quick to exclude Clapton

Jimmy Page deserves a place in the pantheon as well.

[AAO]

49. Don't forget my black God, Stevie Wonder!

[VWolf]

11. Can't be real

Can't be real
Can't be real
Can't be real

PLEASE tell me this isn't real!!!!!

[napkinz]

15. yes it's real

It's been posted a dozen times on DU. I think the first time I came across it was back in November of 2013. (It was posted by another member, and as I recall, there's an article that goes along with it, though I don't have the link.)

[VWolf]

17. I weep for my country n/t

[napkinz]

24. we deserve to be mocked ...

[Logical]

41. It is real, here is SNOPES on it....

http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/sciencetest.asp

[Deuce]

12. Unfortunate...

[renate]

16. I feel so bad for these children

They can't help it, they don't know any better, and they get nothing but positive reinforcement for this kind of thing. They're kneecapped from the day they are born. They're good kids, not dumb ones, but they don't have a chance of even realizing what they don't know until it's too late for all but a few of them to change their worldview. I don't think their parents are harming them deliberately, just ignorantly, and that's sad in its own way, too. It's just really, really sad all around.

[napkinz]

3. --->

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

45. Or, as Phillip K. Dick put it

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

[Blanks]

5. Sounds like he's not an advocate of 'local control'...

In education, that is.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Wow--I agree with the Fundies on something--

I don't think they've evolved either.

[Rex]

10. It is their worst problem and one they cannot overcome. It would require fault in a person.

Or for one to admit to the possibility of being wrong about a preconceived notion. It is also the reason they can never progress beyond any kind of mental state beyond, 'taxes are bad, the gummit is coming for my guns, whatever Rush says is gospel truth'. It is why a lot of them push babble conspiracies and out right lies. Their life is far too depressing to face on a real level, much better to be a prepper and demand the world follow your orders. Even if you can never get the End Time right, year after year.

[Igel]

13. Meh.

Fairly quickly this just devolves into tribal posturing.

The only reason it matters is because ... most people have jobs that requires the application or knowledge of evolution? Nah.

What matters is being able to look at evidence, understand its limitations, and use the limited evidence to produce hypotheses involving causality that can be tested.

Evolution denialism is an example of not doing this. Being anti-vaccine is another example. Anti-GMO is another example. Lots of examples. Only some seem to matter. And only some matter because it's not the case that most people need to apply the theory of evolution in their daily lives but because it's posturing. Anti-vaccine people have a bigger effect on the well-being of society, but don't call it "woo." Anti-evolutionary blather? Sure, that's safe to call "woo." No group boundaries at stake or to be staked.

Now, it's facile to say that if you are in one of those groups you're undermining the very basis of Western civilization (some would say that this is a good thing, many of those are tenured faculty, but I digress). These aren't kids who are going to be doing evolutionary biology or going to medical school. Perhaps they can go into history or literature. They only matter to the extent that "science" is subject to popular opinion--and that only really happens when science stops being a topic for scientists and starts being a topic for politicians. On occasion that's done because the public is outraged and ignorant; mostly it's done because in a democracy some scientists say that they're really the only people who should be making the decisions, not the demos. Otherwise it's easy to finesse evolution in public schools. Easier in many ways than finessing discussion of GMOs. The anti-evolutionists are much less in your face in many cases. Anti-evolution whackery is pretty much self-contained whackery. (I said "pretty much", so unless you have examples that constitute at least 25% of the anti-evolution population individually, I don't care about your anecotes; and if you do, well, DU doesn't have the bandwidth for your 15 million anecdotes but you're welcome to spend the next 10 years compiling them.)

Most people are quite comfortable with having a general set of beliefs and yet still holding some opinions or beliefs at odds with them. I mean, I've seen at least one kid convinced that matter was made up of atoms, which were made up of electrons, neutrons, and protons--and yet somehow believed that she was a human and therefore *not* made up of atoms. Yet she had an A in pre-AP chemistry. The mind boggles. Yet her ignorance wasn't bound to affect much in her own life, much less others' (unless she ever has kids). She won't be a biochemistry major, so just "meh." I knew another guy getting his PhD in cellular biology who accepted evolution as a kind of algorithm while believing in young-Earth creationism. (Then again, I wrote papers in an X'-theoretic or Minimalist framework, yet believed they were utterly insane, impossible crockpot theories--but useful crockpot theories. Sorry, Chomsky.)

[PowerToThePeople]

42. undermining the very basis of Western civilization

What matters is being able to look at evidence, understand its limitations, and use the limited evidence to produce hypotheses involving causality that can be tested.

Evolution denialism is an example of not doing this. Being anti-vaccine is another example. Anti-GMO is another example.....

Now, it's facile to say that if you are in one of those groups you're undermining the very basis of Western civilization (some would say that this is a good thing, many of those are tenured faculty, but I digress). These aren't kids who are going to be doing evolutionary biology or going to medical school. Perhaps they can go into history or literature.

Maybe I am misinterpreting your statement here. If so. let me know.

I am against injecting mercury (thimerorsal) into my child. I request vaccines which do not have it every time. They are available now. They were not as available prior to the "debate." Here is more information.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

It seems the FDA acted on it, so is it woo? Does the FDA act on woo now?

I am also certainly not pro-GMO. I think it could be both harmful and positive, depending on the type of modification and the effects that modification can have on the environment and the human body. I think they need to be looked at individually, not as an "all or nothing package." I do believe there are GMOs out there that have long term effects which will be more harmful than positive. I think it is better to err on the side of caution. I am not sure what is used as a baseline "factor of safety" for GMO introduction. I know in other fields a typical value is 3, so if you know the average load an object will see is X you design it to be able to survive 3X. This does not translate directly into Biological modifications. But, when dealing with something that potentially effects the health of Billions of people, they better be damn sure it will not harm them.

[amb123]

18. GOP believes that science that does not conform to the Bible

is not science.

And economics that does not conform to the Bible is not economics.

And law that does not conform to the Bible is not law.

And government that does not conform to the Bible is not government.

It's that simple.

[Frank Cannon]

25. They believe in Biblical economics?

Then they must be fully on board with the Biblical edicts against usury and to forgive ALL debts every few years. Not to mention Jesus' statements about how to treat the poor and how you need to give up your wealth if you want to get into heaven.

Somehow, I don't think they give a rat's ass about Biblical economics. They simply believe that ignorance and greed are cardinal virtues.

[amb123]

26. They ignore that part.

Hypocrisy thy name is Republican.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

46. Some of them believe that mathematics that does not conform to the Bible is not mathematics

In an essay, "What do Christian fundamentalists have against set theory?" Maggie Koerth-Baker, ex-fundamentalist, explains why fundamentalists are against seemingly innocuous things like set theory. It's because it's symptomatic of a deeper conflict with the modern world.

Instead, they see modernism as the opposing worldview to their own. They are all about tradition (or, at least, what they have decided is traditional). Modernism is a knee-jerk rejection of tradition in favor of the new. Obviously, they think a very specific sort of Christian God should be the center of everything and all parts of society, public and private. Modernists prefer ideas like secular humanism and think God is something you should be doing in private, on your own time. They believe strongly in the importance of power hierarchies and rules. Modernism smashes all of that and says, “Hey, just do your own thing. Nobody’s ideas are any better or worse than anybody else’s. There’s no right and wrong. Go crazy, man!” [Insert obligatory bongo drumming session]

I am hamming this up a bit, but you get the picture. Modernism, to the publishers of A Beka math books, is sick and wrong. The idea is that if you reject their specific idea of God and their specific idea of The Rules, then you must be living in a crazy, dangerous world. You could kill people, and you would think it was okay, because you’re a modernist and you know there’s really no such thing as right and wrong. Basically, they’ve bumped into a need to separate themselves from the almost inhuman Other on a massive scale, and latched on to modernism as a shorthand for how to do that. It doesn’t matter what you or I actually believe, or even what we actually do. They know what we MUST believe and what we MUST be like because of the tenets of modernism.

I understand this. They've been brought up to think the modern world is a deeply dangerous threat to everything they hold precious, and it's simpler to just shut down anything that has to do with it. It's like somebody has been told that some mushrooms are delicious, and others are deadly poisonous, and they've been told that they can, if they're very careful, tell the difference between them. And they choose to never, ever eat mushrooms because they don't want to go to the bother of learning how, and they also don't want to put anyone they love at any risk at all. So they're very cautious about new ideas, because their social structure is both important to them and sensitive to external perturbations.

The specific thing that the article takes up is opposition to set theory. Georg Cantor proved that there are multiple infinite sets. This disturbs certain fundamentalists, who see it is an affront to their beliefs. As one of them put it in Koerth-Baker's article, "There is only one infinity, and that is God."

[Bill USA]

19. Wonderful Dr. Tyson! Recommended!

[colsohlibgal]

20. One Distressing Thing Jumped Out At Me

1/3 of supposed democrats believe "The Flintstones" was real, we lived with dinosaurs a few thousand years ago? So blind ignorance hocus pocus had bled into the left.

It's just all disturbing. But what can one expect after what we did to the natives here because God was on our side, you know, manifest destiny. It did not take me long after I heard of this in grade school to realize how messed up that credo was, basically we're better than you. Now it's "American Exceptionalism". How many stop and think how this plays outside the United States?

[etherealtruth]

27. Neil deGrasse Tyson

He (and George Clooney) is the man of my dreams!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. A great Studmuffin of Physics for the 21st Century.

I would also include my avatar, Dr. Brian May, in that category.

Studmuffins of Physics of the 20th Century.

Big Al Einstein.
Richard Feynman.
Carl Sagan.



Studmuffin of Physics of the 17th Century:
Sir Isaac Newton.

Make your own picks for the 18th and 19th centuries.

[etherealtruth]

32. Smart is sexy!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. Oh yeah!!!

I have never looked at frat boys or jocks, during my college days.
Nothing to have intelligent conversations with.

Pillow talk with my math/physicist hubby consists of topics like gravitomagnetism proven by Gravity Probe B, quantum mechanics, Heisenberg uncertainty principle, quarks, black holes, Planck length, and calculus needed to understand this stuff. I don't understand it all but I did love chemistry because it was logical.

I have former boyfriends who are professors and groundbreaking programmers.

[randome]

28. And everyone knows that Democrats have more fun!

That's what really burns their britches!


[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[awoke_in_2003]

29. "Some Republican is going to wake up"

I love Neil, but I think he is being overly optimistic.

[Liberal_in_LA]

33. whoa! he speaks his mind

[marew]

35. I love this guy!

I am so impressed every time I hear him speak!

[freshwest]

36. Been saying this for a while... A permanent underclass of ignoratti... A dangerous, angry one...

Perfect prey for demagogues and a life-long threat to democracy.

The GOP wants to reduce half or more of the population to nohting more than tools in their hands, first to pull the voting levels to give them all the power they can get, and second to be their peasant class.

One that will see their oppression as godly and necessary, and think nothing of doing wrong to others.

Hope that as the OP says, this trend will be reversed. We can get jaded by seeing media with such programs as Duck Dynasty and religious shows that insist on stifling science.

[Fumesucker]

37. In my experience making money is often more about knowing "who" than knowing "what"

Republicans are in no danger of going broke in our society, they are aggressive and often very focused on financial success.

Knowing too much and being interested in things can be an actual detriment to financial success which is often reached by a laser-like focus on nothing but money and influence. Being interested in things other than money can lead you to do things that don't have much if any financial reward.

Or maybe the Brothers Koch really are geniuses instead of hypercompetitive assholes with a hoarding disorder but I rather doubt it.

[yourmovemonkey]

44. I've said something like this for quite some time.

I know several successful people who are very intelligent and curious about subjects other than their chosen field. About 50% are complete dolts though, and the only thing that made them successful is their complete lack of interest in anything but money. Ignorance can be a very useful tool for success because it keeps many people from being distracted from their goals. The unfortunate thing about this group of people is that they just can't understand why everyone else can't just be like them. They never read novels. They never visit museums. They simply can't see any value in those sorts of things, and because of that belief they see no reason why anyone else should need them either.

That group of people is also completely unable to understand why anyone else would (or should) think differently from them. They label artistic ventures as 'stupid' wastes of time. Our society rewards them for their single-mindedness, and puts them in positions where they dictate how the rest of us should live.

[Lunacee_2013]

38. Lol, poor Neil...

He looks so tired in that pic.

[stuartsdesk1]

48. Not To Worry - Republicans Will Fade from the Gene Pool Due to Natural Selection

They used to insist that the sun revolves around the earth. Not so anymore.

They used to insist that the earth was flat. Not so anymore.

Some of them still insist that global warming is a hoax. That will end when their cattle pastures
turn to baked clay and they find themselves frying in the heat.

Have faith -

The inexorable effect of natural selection will be to eliminate Republicans from the gene pool.
Not within geologic eons or eras. Not within a century or a decade. Probably within the next few years.

Thank you Mike Huckabee for your recent pronouncements on women's reproductive rights,
their independent thinking and libido control.

You have moved the GOP one step closer to extinction.