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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's easier to hate the cops than become one
I've asked before, and gotten crickets, so I will try again.
Why aren't more progressives working to take over police and prosecutor's offices? By filling forces with more tolerant, understanding people who are not just looking to make their numbers, we can shrink the prison population to nothing but banksters and child support deadbeats.
But people would rather complain about what other people are doing (or not doing) than to do it themselves.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)authoritarian mindset, something I think few progressives have.
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Policing, even in socially progressive countries, attracts folks with an authoritarian mindset.
Running soup kitchens, even in dictatorships, attracts charitable people.
mainer
(12,022 posts)At least, the Norwegian cops I know. One (a female) works with abused children. The other is a regular patrol officer. Neither of them routinely carry guns, although they do know how to use one.
I think it all gets down to better screening of applicants. Police departments need to be looking more for social worker types, who actually want to serve and protect.
El_Johns
(1,805 posts)their police to be social workers, not because they're better at recruiting nice people.
The impetus comes from the top.
Trying to recruit nice people to become cops in a structure that pressures cops to be hard-asses is guaranteed to 1) turn the nice people into hard-asses; 2) end with a lot of the nice people quitting or having stress issues.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)sure, that's what I said....no progressive police anywhere.
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)intends to pursue a career in law enforcement, so I guess he's one of the "few".
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)He has a big challenge ahead of him. But it sounds like he is the kind of person I hope steps up and helps bring law enforcement, or at least some tiny little part of it, into a more constructive humane age that protects people's rights AND physical safety.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)I think he is one of the rare few.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Ah, the irony! She was a committed pot smoker who always had a cop boyfriend.
I'd like to think I could be a good cop - one trying to protect and serve. My experience with computers and electronics have given me skills that I think would help me become a good detective.
But at this point in my life, I doubt I could pass the physical requirements. And I would not be comfortable with a force that would give someone with a trashed lower back, who can't even wash a sink of dishes without needing 3 days bed rest, a job.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)But obviously it is hopeless. I cannot become a cop because of my physical condition. And even able bodied people can't because it is an authoritarian job by its very nature.
So let me modify the question. What can replace the police? If someone is a rapist, or a burglar, how should they be dealt with? Community vigilantism?
Who is going to lock the banksters up? The deadbeat dads?
Realistically, what can we do in place of having police?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Same thing, really.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)What an asisnine OP. I have to "do" before i can expect respect, decency and lawfullness from our public servants?
I have to "do" before i can complain about 'roided out assholes beating defenseless oldsters?
There's your crickets for you, singing loud and clear.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Somehow I have to break out of the "Don't just sit there and complain, DO something about it" mentality.
And so, I surrender. The cops will continue to oppress, and we will sit back, put on a scowl, and shout:
Same as it ever was.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... argument. Really, why don't I just become president.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)But hundreds of thousands of cops?
kcr
(15,315 posts)It's not as if that's the only problem we face, either. So, become a cop! Great! But our schools are being taken over by corporate interests. Become a teacher! But I'm already a cop! Okay... Now I'm a teacher. Doing my part! But the mortgage crisis! Bankrupting cities, global warming, oh shit!
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)than to do anything to change the culture of it.
villager
(26,001 posts)Congrats!
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Who said you had to become a cop in order to change the culture of it?
I have family members who are cops. They are as progressive as they come. They've seen horrible violence and have dealt with criminals that would rather kill them. They deal with the society when it's at it's worse. I don't care who you are, it changes you on a level that very few will understand. My cousin thought he'd see less of it when he got promoted. He went to homicide thinking he wouldn't see the other garbage. Instead, he had to investigate some very violent and tragic crimes. People have to understand that right or wrong the job will change you on the inside in ways I don't think most understands.
When you work in a job where many people either hate you or are afraid of you and you deal with society at it's worst, what kind of person do you think you are going to be on the other side of that?
Also, another cousin took his retirement early. His home life was a wreck because he didn't know how not to bring it home. He bought my Grandpa's business when he retired and has never been happier.
I have never seen a DUer talk about this aspect of being a cop.
villager
(26,001 posts)... our LAPD liason was a cop who'd been through a harrowing, locally notorious shootout with suicidal, heavily-armed bank robbers...
He eventually took an early retirement too. I think he never got past the PTSD of it (and I'd heard, actually, he may have had a stroke -- this was after the marriage ended, and I was no longer in that neighborhood...)
He seemed like a good guy.
But I've encountered LAPD members since who are sneering assholes, contemptuous of the public they "serve," with no reason, in those encounters, to be so.
One doesn't excuse the other.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)But knowing what they face on a daily basis should at the very least make one more understanding if nothing else. There are a lot of factors that may have gone on that no one else was aware of that he may have contended with.
Also, I should add that I have a lot of experience working with the police and I have rarely encountered a bad one unless you count the one who said the woman deserved to be arrested for hitting back when her boyfriend smacked her around.
Logical
(22,457 posts)cynatnite
(31,011 posts)They are charged with doing the most difficult of work...the kind that few are willing to do.
How can anyone expect these any of these guys to come out normal afterwards?
Logical
(22,457 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)Aristus
(66,316 posts)So I, for one, would not have an easy time becoming a cop. Sure.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)most police departments in the US have a culture that is likely to be unattractive to most progressives.
Here are the list of reasons I would not wish to be a cop
1. I am grossly overqualified
2. NYPD policies are often racist and I am not
3. NYPD has to follow orders, some of which i find abhorrent and couldn't/wouldn't do it. My career would be shortlived. (same for military)
4. I am naturally trusting, which i am assuming is a big problem if you are a cop
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)... than a problem specifically with law enforcement. Sheriff Andy Taylor probably couldn't handle the number of meth labs, school shooters and terrorists prowling around Mayberry these days. Its takes an Inspector Harry Callahan to take down those guys.
We as a nation have convinced ourselves that the world is now a very, very dangerous place, and violent crime lurks around every corner just on the verge of snuffing us out. I can't think of any reason law enforcement wouldn't see it through the very same perspective, and begin to act accordingly as an institution.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)But actually this is a democratic country and we are allowed to complain about whatever we wish just because we are citizens and our opinion counts.
Beearewhyain
(600 posts)but I would support progressive policies for PD's that encourage community involvement by officers while also decreasing crime through proactive, holistic approaches to interdiction.
That said, I am not sure what those policies would specifically look like but I would love to hear about someone trying. You know, as opposed to the Cartman philosophy.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)person until they are no longer breathing.
So you are saying NONE of the cops now on any force are progressives? So they are all truly bad apples and not a one good copper to be found anymore? I find that hard to believe and would challenge you to prove it is not the innate authoritarian aspect of law enforcement that has to be changed by administrators. Now who would that be?
When you complain about other people complaining, you get this reply post.
mainer
(12,022 posts)who made all the difference in my teenage son's life, I will say that there are indeed fine cops. The day that man died of a heart attack was a day I mourned a good man.
If you've ever raised a teenager in a small town, then you know there are cops who can straighten out a young man without use of force or threats, but just a good heart-to-heart talk.
DragonBorn
(175 posts)I've wanted to post this for a long time too but haven't.
A friend of mine recently became a cop (2 years ago) with a small department in NY. Ever since his training days in the academy they try to instill an us vs. them mindset in the recruits. One example is them jogging around the neighborhood surrounding their academy singing a song about how their here to lock you up. I forget the exact words but they were antagonistic.
Since then he's pulled over drunk cops who where driving erratically and blowing through stop lights, a city worker drunk and passed out behind his wheel in the middle of the street, been told to leave a scene when he's sure the arrestee is about to get a "tune up".
Every single time he's had to let these people go on the orders of his superior officer because in his superiors words "We are a small department and they (offending PD) may have to back us up one day".
You don't really want to piss off the people who may have to have your back in a life and death situation one day, they may decide to drive really slowly to that call....
My friend is a good guy and is not the type to abuse his authority but what the hell can he do alone about such pervasive corruption? Don't even tell me record these encounters, because that's exactly what Adrian Schoolcraft did and it got him locked up in a mental ward for six days and has since pretty much destroyed his life since.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
He's not looking to become a martyr on the alter of police corruption especially when no one really cares. There should have been livid protests about what happened to Schoolcraft and how he was treated but instead there was silence. Its the public's fault there aren't more whistleblowers, when they come out they get trampled on by the system and the public just doesn't give a damn.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Two policemen, Gary Roteman and Arthur Cesare, stayed outside, while the third, Paul Halley, stood in front of the apartment building. Serpico climbed up the fire escape, entered by the fire escape door, went downstairs, listened for the password, then followed two suspects outside.[7]
The police arrested the young suspects, found one had two bags of heroin. Halley stayed with the suspects, and Roteman told Serpico (who spoke Spanish), to make a fake purchase attempt to get the drug dealers to open the door. The police went to the third-floor landing. Serpico knocked on the door, keeping his hand on his 9mm Browning Hi-Power. The door opened a few inches, just far enough to wedge his body in. Serpico called for help, but his fellow officers ignored him.[7]
Serpico was then shot in the face with a .22 LR pistol. The bullet struck just below the eye and lodged at the top of his jaw. He fell to the floor, and began to bleed profusely. His police colleagues refused to make a "10-13", a dispatch to police headquarters indicating that an officer has been shot.[7] An elderly man who lived in the next apartment called the emergency services and reported that a man had been shot. The stranger stayed with Serpico.[7] A police car arrived. Unaware that Serpico was one of them, the officers took him to Greenpoint Hospital.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)madville
(7,408 posts)in this country it's going to take a long time for the police culture to evolve from where it is currently heading. Last time I looked through the county jail bookings minorities accounted for about 80% of the bookings but the county is 55% white, they definitely focus all their attention towards those groups here.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)There was a case of a guy who sued because he was barred because his IQ was too high - the lower courts upheld his ban. So what do you expect progressives to do? Fake their IQ results?
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Fine, history clearly indicates that if you go into the police with the intent of being an honest cop and reporting abuses, that either you will be fired, or you will be dead. Before we can create the atmosphere for honest and moral individuals to put on the badge, we have to begin with a change of the environment. You can't grow apples in a shed designed to grow mushrooms after all. In that shed, you are limited to growing mushrooms.
First, we have to pass laws and make the punishments stick. In California, two police officers beat a man to death on video and they were found not guilty. In Texas, an officer arrived at the scene of a mentally disturbed individual and shot him in less than twenty seconds after arriving. It's very rare that a cop goes to jail for his abuses. So rare that if it happened any less then you could say that punishment was non-existent.
How do we change this? First, public awareness. Most people just don't know how corrupt the police are, and those who do speak out are labeled as criminals who are upset at the system etc. Or as people who have an axe to grind. The first way is by polygraphing the police. If they can't pass a polygraph every six months showing that they have not lied under oath, lied on official forms, used excessive force, and are unaware of anyone doing any of the above, then they must turn in their badges and are unqualified to be cops.
Secondly, you must mount video cameras that are not capable of being tampered with or turned off on the officer. If that is done, the officer's testimony in court would be "Look at the video".
In the 1970's, when people were aware of the police abuses, the larger cities started civilian review boards. These fell out of favor a decade later, and now are not in use anywhere I am aware of. The watchers must be watched.
The culture of corruption exists at every level, and starting to clean it up is almost an impossible task. You can't use the federal authorities, because they are just as likely to lie, and use the same abusive techniques as a street cop in a small town. Think about the enormity of the situation.
Christopher Dorner tried to report his fellow LAPD officers for abuse. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner
Have you ever seen as determined a manhunt as was launched for Dorner? The Washington Sniper search did not include checkpoints where police aimed automatic weapons at cars before searching for the fugitive. The only time you see that response is when one of them is threatened or killed. The Boston Bomber search went into overdrive after a university cop was killed. Before that, it was an investigation, now a cop is dead, and the tanks are rolling into the streets. Thou shall not threaten a member of their gang, and God help you if you actually harm one. Two police officers shot up a pickup truck they thought Dorner might be in, it was the wrong make, model, and color, but that didn't slow them down. Why were those cops not charged with attempted murder?
Why is it a felony to lie to a cop, but it's perfectly acceptable for a cop to lie to you? Make it a law that if the cops lie to you, you get all charges dismissed without prejudice. The cops will try lying about the lying.
There are so many things wrong, that where to begin is impossible. The very first place to begin, is integrity checks. Polygraph testing for every cop, if you fail, you're not on your way to jail, but you are not eligible to be a cop anymore. That would weed out a vast majority, and that would be the very first step to tearing down the mushroom shack, and making it possible for decent people to grow in the environment. Next, mandatory civilian oversight of the police. Make it elected, or appointed. Make a three judge panel responsible for selecting interested civilians who want to serve their community. The how is something we can discuss, the what is sadly overdue.
lpbk2713
(42,753 posts)Although the usual given rationale is that people with superior intellect get bored with the mundane aspects of police work, the dirty truth is a Captain doesn't want someone working for him who is likely to advance quickly and take his cushy job away from him.
mokawanis
(4,440 posts)I wouldn't want to arrest people for violating laws I think are wrong in the first place. Example - it would be very upsetting for me to slap the cuffs on someone for marijuana possession.
I don't get the part about shrinking the prison population to nothing but banksters and child support deadbeats. We aren't going to bust people for violent assault, felony theft, or repeated drunk driving?