General Discussion
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(130,721 posts)Ignorance is their favorite tool.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)think that Medicare is not government run.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)However, I'd love to see where they got their statistics.
I mean, I've heard that before too, but I wasn't able to produce the source.
I saw this, but I can't verify it either:
Randomthought
(834 posts)US Bureau of Economic Analysis and Internal Revenue Service.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)in this category. Ted Stevens is dead.
Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)make sense to me.
Well, if you see it saying more than a dollar, it means they are getting more money for every dollar that they give in taxes.
While, if you see them having less than a dollar, they are getting less than they give in taxes.
It does say BEA and IRS, but, I don't know TPM.
Progressive dog
(6,899 posts)there is no map, but there is a table. The numbers in the table could be used to draw a map, but the map would not agree with the 1 you posted. [link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state|
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)That is why I mentioned, I don't know the source well.
Though the image has the 2010 numbers, the link you posted has 2012.
My mistake... Yeah, it definitely does not fit.
66 dmhlt
(1,941 posts)Thanks.
niyad
(113,049 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They could more accurately be called hypocrite states.
Lucky Luciano
(11,248 posts)...living in those states getting welfare. It is the corporate welfare that is the big part of any bloated budget.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)You'll notice that we have two Democratic Senators and get back just over two dollars for every dollar we pay in federal taxes. I think that in this state it may be in no small part because we have a fairly large number of federal employees. After all, we do have Los Alamos National Laboratory, Sandia Labs, the Very Large Array, White Sands Missile Range, and several military bases.
This state actually has one of the largest number of per-capita PhDs even though the k-12 school system is generally mediocre at best. Most of those PhDs got those degrees elsewhere.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 27, 2014, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)
they deserve to have. And the reason they consider urbanites parasites, is them thinking we are feeding off them.I will give what I have heard and thought about what I've heard from country folk which are the model for red staters. There is a lot more to it, socially, but I'll stick to the tax and welfare argument.
All of the wealth of the cities comes from the land, parleyed into a value which is not returned equally. It can't be, since the city requires a lot just to exist that it is not able to produce, resources and materials.
Rural workers are low-paid, because the majority of people live in the cities and insist prices be kept low and all their wealth is solid and tangible, not digits to be manipulated as city dwellers can do.
The farmer or rancher in a long-term gamble against weather, government regulations and a market he has little or no say in, such as Wall Street or whoever is running government. He must think long-term as it takes time for his crop to come in, and what does he have to live on before that?
The urbanite expects food available all the time, heat, water, and income to buy the same, or a system of governance to see him through bad years. If the city dweller through government taxes sees him through that period of time, he is sure that only part of what he is owed. He considers his plight to be the fault of the city dweller.
It is a permanent grievance that has been in place as long as the rural - urban dynamic has existed, and government comes from cities and high population states and insists the rural dweller obey.
it's getting more unbalanced with the HUGE need of those who demand regularity in their living conditions that the rural dweller cannot insist upon. The ratio of city to country dweller in this country is virtually the opposite that it was as the Great Depression hit.
People were driven out of their homes in the country to the cities to make a living. And they were made unwelcome when they arrived, as the refugees they were. Many have let those days fade into memory. Others have not forgotten, especially those that held on in the country for decades and felt pride - and not a small amount of resentment.
The rural people see what they are up against, and they call city and coastal dwellers elitists. The gas, oil, electricity, water and sewer systems MUST be going 24/7/365. The city, truth to be told, DEVOURS the countryside as a material thing that it does not respect. So when the country dweller looks askance at our horror of mining and factory farming, it is only fair in their book. They want to make a living, but they are driven to produce more meat, vegetables, oil and minerals for the city - which I am using analogy for the blue states and Democratic strong holds which pay the most taxes.
We pay more taxes because we have more money, it's not as hard to get as in a the almost barter system of land owners. We can make appear or disappear, the rural or red stater cannot do this sleigh of hand that we can. We can pass a law that makes one group well-off, they cannot make more land, water, etc.
But nothing else has ever worked in an urban environment of millions, and we love our combined intelligence, wealth, organization and education and what it buy us. Our money that we pay in taxes comes from our ingenuity, but what undergirds it is the land, which is neglected. And we use resources rural people lose to the political influences of the masses in cities. It's probably the reason our government was set up as it was, to maintain a political equity between the classes or regions.
The frontier mentality of guns, hunting, willingness to slaugther, live with animal and industrial filth and all the rest have made their culture. They consider their penury to be the fault of luxurious living in the cities and laziness because they consider their work more physically demanding. It's all out of sight and out of mind for the genteel urbanite, but all that we use and buy and sell comes from such places and people considered by many to be stupid and uncouth. That is very old.
Since rural folks are not getting the same treatment as they think the non-agrarian city dweller does, they believe our life styles to be frvolous, they think we are spoilt brats and resent us. They value land, family, etc. and the like. Not a full explanation, but IMO this is why they don't see our money paid in to them as welfare, but less than they are owed.
They think they are being cheated. Are they?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I dont think so.
Stop sending them government assistance.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)It's that their tax base is so low. These are also the states who are trying to "attract" business with zero or low taxes and lower minimum wage.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)mdbl
(4,973 posts)Generic Brad
(14,272 posts)It is easier to lash out at a scape goat than it is to clean up their own backyard.
world wide wally
(21,738 posts)laugh as you read it. It's amazing how the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Enjoy
http://www.fuckthesouth.com
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)lins the liberal
(169 posts)The people you speak of are my neighbors and yes my friends.
It is a combination of things. People here do not like change. To them homosexuality and abortion are deadly sins...and they hear this preached in church on a regular basis. Between those issues and gun rights...and again they often hear that democrats want to take their guns. I've read many screeds concerning Obama wanting to take their guns....and they believe this 100% To them Obama is beyond contempt.
They are also insulated from other ideas....Fox news and their churches provide them with all their ideas and hate. Yes hate. Some churches regularly preach it. And I believe part of the picture is the need in many of us to look down on others. In effect I am doing it, just by writing these things. But I've witnessed that sense of superiority from many of the fundie church people. They believe God is on their side. And that the rest of us are headed for hell.
There is a strong belief that the churches should help the poor, not the government. I've asked several about the fact that the churches do not and cannot take care of all the needs of the poor. I've never gotten an answer.
There is also shock when some of these people need help and discover it isn't as easy to get as they thought. They are shocked when their application for SS disability is not immediately granted. There is shock when they discover that it is abortion to terminate a pregnancy where the fetus is badly deformed. They thought abortion was just getting rid of an unwanted baby.
One response I got on the death penalty was that it didn't really matter if an innocent person was put to death because that person has the same chance as anyone else to be "saved" before they are put to death.
Most of these people are not bad people. But as Obama got in trouble for saying...they cling to their religion and their guns.
Of course it goes without saying that they hate Obama Care. And some seem surprised when I tell them my personal reasons for liking it....family members who have been able to stay on parents' insurance and family members who can finally get some medical care.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)I use every opportunity to make those you describe above to feel foolish. Of course, they don't get it but it makes me feel better. It's the least they can do for me after making me live through the Bush/Cheney years.
lins the liberal
(169 posts)I really believe that the bottom line has to do with feeling safe,even if it is an illusion. If you can look at the world in black and white terms, it is a comfort. You are sure in what you believe. You go to church 3 times a week to have your beliefs re-enforced.
More comforting to believe you are saved and going to heaven, than to question the existence of God. More comfortable to believe that the people who are down and out deserve it for some reason...until it happens to you.
More comfortable to believe that homosexuality and abortions are sins, than to question these things. After all you aren't gay and you don't plan on having an abortion.
The lines are clearly drawn. Everything is black and white....and that is comforting. It explains the world. Bad things happen to bad people. If something bad happens to someone....well they some how deserve it.
MatthewStLouis
(904 posts)cinnabonbon
(860 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)It's very simple. When we have decided we've had enough of this shit, those two entities will be the primary targets