I am very depressed but also very angry

[emsimon33]

I had a discussion with a friend last night. My friend is from Vietnam but, since marrying an American serviceman after the war, has been an American citizen living in the U.S. She is a very warm and giving person. For example, she supports an orphanage in Vietnam and is always doing for others.

She made a statement last night that Obama thinks he is a movie star and that the economy and all the homeless people are his fault...that he should "get over himself" and take responsibility for the huge debt and the poor economy.

I explained that I am not happy with Obama for a variety of reasons (single payer never given a chance and TPP for example), but that what she was accusing him of was simply not true. As we spoke, it became clear that she was repeating what she had heard on Fox and whenever I tried to present the facts, she would rebutt that she was just a little housewife (which isn't true as she has been a very successful business woman for a number of businesses which she has started) and that her beliefs are based on her observations.

Her observations included offering a man panhandling outside of Walmart in Paso Robles, CA, $15 an hour to pull weeds and do other gardening chores for her and she would "also fix him lunch" (he refuesed her offer) and offering a woman whose tennis shoes in the Jimba class at the fitness center were held together with rubber bands $15 an hour (and free lunch) to clean her house every other week (the woman said "yes" but never showed). To my friend this and a couple of other randon examples proves that people in the U.S. only want a governemnt hand out. If they really wanted a job they would accept anything.

I confessed that I had no explanation for the examples she provided but that we could end "government" handouts pretty qucikly if we raised the minumum wage to $11 or $12 per hour. Her retort was classic Fox: "Give them that and they will just ask for more and more."

Nothing I said could change her mind and I sadly realized how very toxic Fox is (not that I haven't hated them for years). Here was a compassionate, warm, highly successful and educated person who has fallen victim to the Fox propaganda. Now rather than seeing those living in poverty often despite working three jobs paying minimum wage as victims, Fox has molded her perceptions so that she sees them as lazy leeches that do not want to work. To my friend's way of thinking, those less fortune are victims of their own lack of initiative and unwillingness to do hard labor and make correct life choices. No matter how many facts and examples I presented in my argument, there was no changing my friend's mind and she made that very clear.

Fox is a greater poison that mercury, any drug, or any... . How it brainwashes would make the Soviets at the heighth of the Cold War and the the Nazis jealous. It must be stopped if we ever to return to being a compassionate and civilized society again.

I apologize for any misspellings. I am on a desktop computer in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, and its spell checker has underlined everything in red as it is spell checking for Vietnamese!

[JaneyVee]

1. It is sad what FOX News is doing to people's brains.

[Journeyman]

2. Here's an interesting read for you from Frank Rich: "Stop Beating a Dead Fox". . .

http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/fox-news-2014-2/

Stop Beating a Dead Fox
The conservative news channel’s only real power is in riling up liberals, who by this point should know better.

<snip>

The most interesting news about Fox News is that for some years now it has been damaging the right far more than the left. As a pair of political analysts wrote at Reuters last year, “When the mainstream media reigned supreme, between 1952 and 1988, Republicans won seven out of the ten presidential elections,” but since 1992, when “conservative media began to flourish” (first with Rush Limbaugh’s ascendancy, then with Fox), Democrats have won the popular vote five out of six times. You’d think they’d be well advised to leave Fox News to its own devices so that it can continue to shoot its own party in the foot.

<snip>

Start thinking outside the "Fox." The more you do, the greater you'll perceive how ineffective, indeed impotent, that programming is becoming. It's a distraction, certainly, and it can in limited scenarios create extraordinary chaos, but it's a dying power and unless rejuvenated with a far more vital dynamic (a possibility akin to the Republican Party re-envisioning itself), it will continue to fade away.

[emsimon33]

3. I hope you (and Rich) are correct

What shocked me is how the Fox propaganda limits my friend's view of the world so that she finds only affirmation in her selective observations and she can not engage her logical mind on these issues.

[emsimon33]

7. I have been thinking about my first reply to your post

Yes, Fox may be harmful to some Republican candidates; however, I do not think that the .01% care who is elected. They chose who the candidates will be anyway so it is really a win-win for them (bet they will not chose Elizabeth Warren but Hillary is as much their person as any Republican candidiate on the issues that matter to them). What Fox is successful at doing is keeping the nation divided and as long as we are so divided, the .01% can conquer and enslave.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. Between 1952 and 1994,

the Democrats controlled the House of Representatives for all but 2 years. They also controlled the Senate for all but 8 years.

[RobertEarl]

4. Fox is like a bad virus

Once inside it eats away at their hearts.

Obama is a star. He's the President!

The reason we have such a tough economy is because we have spent a fortune on wars. Vietnam being the first big drain. And that hate directed at Vietnam back then is the same hate that Fox spews today.

It does no good working the edges with Fox infected people. You have to go in and cut out the infection. Pointing out how Fox is just a different face for age old hate works well at times. Don't give up with people like this lady, who you say is otherwise a healthy person. Keep working to heal her.

[emsimon33]

8. I tried the different face approach

but she continues to believe that the examples she provides are random selections as opposed to being determined by the Fox world view.

[delrem]

5. I doubt that I'd work for $15 p/h (plus lunch) for a person like that.

Give me $300 p/h (plus she stays out of my face) and I might consider it.

But then I work as an independent contractor, only for people who inspire me to do my best by showing that they appreciate the best. So I doubt I'd ever meet up with your friend.

[emsimon33]

6. My friend is actually a very wonderful person

That is one reason I was so shocked at her attitude. I would never have suspected it. She is very generous and very giving. That she had been brainwashed by Fox shocked me. I know it was Fox becuase when I am at her house, the TV is usually tuned to Fox News. However, I thought that it was her husband's choice as he is ex-military. Guess I was wrong as her arguments are directly from the Fox lie-book.

[BellaKos]

9. Fox is a contageous disease.

While Frank Rich may be correct in a theoretical sense, he obviously hasn't been "on the ground" talking to ordinary people as OP has.
I've seen this brainwashing infect my friends and family over a period of years. Consequently, like OP's friend from Vietnam, they, too, are intelligent, educated, and generally kindly, but, since
being opposed to the Far Right meme have morphed into hateful, mean spirited, and fearful fanatics.

I've felt a great loss of friendship as a result, because how can I relate to people who are so hateful? What does one say when my friend says that she's getting a gun because "Obama is going to take away our guns?" Or what do I say when my sister-in-law (who is a professional with a Masters degree) says that it won't be long before Obama institutes Sharia law in the courts? I mean, where do you start? I can't explain high school civics and then continue with a short lesson on geo-politics within the confines of a singe or even several conversations. There just isn't enough time.

The problem with the Left, as expressed by people like Frank Rich, is that the impact of Fox and friends (like Clear Channel Radio network) has been dismissed. And while the Left *discusses* the issue endlessly and then concludes that there's nothing to be concerned about, the epidemic rages on. And all of a sudden, the House is controlled by ignorant ideologues whose outrageous remarks are merely reflections of their constituents.

[emsimon33]

10. From all of my friend's actions and words, I never suspected her attitude

This is how insideous Fox is. You are correct about "how do you argue." With the bainwashed, you can't. Everything, filtered through their brainwahed senses, reinforces the Fox meme. The result is a mean-spirited and divided electorate and society--which is what the .01% want. They don't give a fig about who is president. They can lock up the governemnt from the states' level or from Congress, the Supreme Court, etc. And they won'tbe happy until we have returned to the Middle Ages of serfs and masters.

[BellaKos]

13. It took me awhile to figure it out.

David Brock's book, Blinded by the Right, traces the beginning of the Right-Wing propaganda used on a national scale back to Nixon's Dixiecrat strategy in 1968, when he used code words to reach racists. A coalition grew within the anti-abortion movement in the '70s to become a viable electorate as Reagan's Moral Majority. Before long it became common practice that Evangelical Christians combined with Big Money fostered Talking Points that were carefully crafted around wedge issues in order to promote voter turnout among people who were concerned about abortion, federal spending, gay issues, etc. It is notable that Rush Limbaugh met with G. H. W. Bush in the Oval Office during the 1991 campaign. That's when I knew that this was indeed a "vast, right-wing conspiracy" as Hilary Clinton famously remarked a few years later.

My personal experience began shortly after Rush Limbaugh's four hour program first began being broadcast in our area in the early 1990s. Soon after that, a neighbor accosted me with a "speech" that was nothing more than an ignorant rant he had heard on Limbaugh's show. I dismissed that as an insignificant encounter until that kind of thing occurred more and more often among more and more people.

Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani facilitated a way for Murdoch's News Corp to get a foothold in New York City -- which was the necessary element for Murdoch to build his media empire here in the US. Thus, Faux Noise went on the air a few years after that.

By 2000, apparently, people on the Left finally figured out that there was a need to respond to the various and numerous media outlets promoting far right ideologies, so Air America was created as a radio outlet. And Al Gore came up with Current TV. The problem is that this kind of programming doesn't appeal to regular Dems, so these efforts have failed.

In the past ten years, I have noticed that it's not just my ignorant neighbors parroting right-wing nonsense. This kind of brainwashing has now infected my own friends and family. I grieve over the loss of these relationships.

But the problem with Frank Rich's optimism is that he doesn't understand that this propaganda is now deeply embedded in the public discourse and is growing. And his argument that Faux is not "tech savy" is discounted by the fact that it doesn't need to be. The situation is this: people are hearing the *same* thing all day long on various outlets and reiterated on the net. People wake up with "Fox and Friends." They listen to Limbaugh on the radio on the way to work. Check in at Red State or Free Republic on the net at their desks. When they get home, they turn on "The Factor" and "Hannity." So, by the time they run into a "lib'ril" -- perhaps at a family dinner on the weekend -- they are set to do battle, jazzed up by what they have seen, heard and read during the previous week. And those of us who have the capacity for nuance and thoughtfulness feel accosted and dazed by the vehemence and hatefulness spewed in our direction from across the dinner table.

And I have said for years that this mindless "group-think," this brainwashing instigated by Big Money on the Right is dangerous to our country. It's dividing the country in a malevolent way that may lead to the serfdom that you, OP, have described. All one has to do is to look at the policies enacted or obstructed by the politicians who were elected by these Dittoheads in recent decades. Then, it begins to look like a plan, doesn't it? And then, you can see that we ignore these practices at our own peril.

[TeamPooka]

11. Your friend is an idiot. no offense. nt

[JI7]

12. your friend sounds really really stupid

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. Right after the housing market collapsed they were out there blaming the government and minorities..

It was amazing to see the echo chamber go into full damage control mode.

Every other news outlet was reporting sub-prime loans, bundling mortgages, Country Wide, etc. but FOX "News" was talking about Democrats forcing the poor innocent banks into accepting loans from minorities as part of a failed Liberal government effort at social engineering. They claimed it was forced integration of the white suburbs to mix the races and the Dems were SHOCKED that those low wage people couldn't afford those nice homes and the entire effort was a PERFECT example of how government can't do ANYTHING right and all those damn Democrats did was drive down the value of honest, hard working, God fearing REAL American's homes. (Who just HAPPENED to be white too)

BTW: Bush who?

[beachbum bob]

15. hate is a simple emotion to tap into......look how

Nazi Germany was transformed in a few short years. Keep repeating the lies often enough and it becomes the new truth. So much, if not all, of the hate of obama is no doubt racially based. Those who wish to ignore that fact are only fooling themselves. These people the truth, the facts will NEVER matter and never will acknowledge their own bias and prejudices. You can not argue or debate irrationality.

Fortunately many americans are not so far gone and many can be reached. Those are the ones you talk with.

[Skidmore]

16. She sees herself as separate and better per her use of "them."

The Rs have been very successful and playing "divide and conquer."

[stillwaiting]

20. She absolutely DOES see herself as better than them. She sees them as losers.

It's why I have a very difficult time connecting on an emotional level as a friend with staunch conservatives.

Their worldview inherently divides people into winners/losers. They have their "betters". It is thoroughly distasteful.

Of course, just knowing that someone has such an over-inflated ego concerning their own greatness is a massive turnoff.

Those that identify as conservative certainly see themselves as being in the "better than" group. This necessarily means that there are many others that they look down upon. For whatever reason from a myriad of reasons that conservatives allow for us to be divided as a society.

In short, we wouldn't be divided if it weren't for the small minds of conservatives. TPTB simply would not be able to divide us.

The left preaches solidarity and compassion. The right preaches winners/losers, and the losers deserve what they get no matter how horrible, unnecessary and unjust that might be.

I just can't deal with people like that very well. At all.

[BadgerKid]

17. Could there be more going on with the panhandler though?

For example, maybe it's not a full time job, or the panhandler doesn't like your friend. Sometimes part-time work turns into full-time work, which the panhandler is perhaps not considering. Who knows?

I think raising MW needs to be done, but its relevance to this anecdote isn't clear. I mean, $15 is more than $11-12. Maybe some people really just don't want to work. Who knows?

[hobbit709]

18. My mother grew up in Austria under Hitler

and she says that the propaganda machine here makes his look like a bunch of amateurs.

[renate]

21. I thought this article was pretty interesting

That morning, one of the “Fox & Friends” headlines—quick stories that merit only a few second’s mention—was that “that salmonella outbreak” had become so severe that furloughed CDC workers were being recalled to help deal with it. My eyes widened in surprise. What? A salmonella outbreak? I had been watching Fox News for an average of three hours a day for eight days, and this was the very first I had heard of it. I was even more disturbed by the casual tone of it all, as if they had been discussing it for weeks, and I had just missed it. My first—and perhaps slightly fevered—thought was that the network had soft-pedaled the story because they didn’t want to give the impression that furloughing a bunch of agricultural inspectors might have been a bad idea.

It was at that moment that I realized that Fox was simply not telling me things—things that, arguably, might be good for me to know. Such as, just to pick an example, that eating a certain brand of chicken might cause me illness or death, and that the problem was sufficiently dire that government employees were being recalled to work without pay to deal with it. It was a very disturbing moment, and I immediately began to wonder what other matters Fox had chosen to keep me in the dark about.

Perhaps it’s time to discuss ignorance. One of the interesting things about Fox News, one of the things I hadn’t anticipated upon entering into this venture, was how little actual news the network disseminates. There is a lot of national political coverage, most of this devoted to the damage that Barack Obama and the Democratic Party are inflicting on our country. Beyond that, however, Fox stays true to its Rupert Murdochian tabloid roots. There is plenty of coverage of police chases and freak accidents, but very little else in the way of substantive stories.

Given the statistics about Fox’s conservative influence and the way it misleads its viewers, I think it is fair to classify much of what it does as propaganda. My liberal cynicism seemed to render me immune to that — their O’Reilly-style hectoring eliciting a few laughs, but doing little to change my worldview. But Fox, as I came to discover, indulges in another form of opinion creation. Let’s call this the propaganda of ignorance. By choosing which stories to cover, and, perhaps more important, which stories to ignore, Fox is able to advance its political agenda in a much more subtle and insidious way.

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/28/my_personal_fox_news_nightmare_inside_a_month_of_self_induced_torture/