At first blush, the SOTU sounds great -- until you start delving into the substance

[markpkessinger]

The President sounded some good themes last night. Unfortunately, when it came to the issue of raising the minimum wage, he swung not for the bleachers, but rather for the dugout. Once again, his opening volley in what will surely be a back-and-forth negotiation with (or capitulation to) Republicans, of $10.10 per hour probably means we'll be lucky if we see $9/hr when it is all said and done.

The MyRA proposal strikes me as a distraction from the more pressing issue of addressing Social Security (i.e., raising the cap). As a reader on Alternet observes:

thetasigma

< . . . . >

What I've heard no one discuss is the president's shocking planned end-run around Social Security which he calls "MyRA". An individualized private investment plan that supplements, (i.e., supplants and circumvents the existing SS retirement plan). Instead of removing the cap and extending the viability of SS well into the future, MyRA does nothing to address future SS problems and instead lays the groundwork for its competition, in which citizens are 'encouraged', (wink-wink) to manage their own retirement.

< . . . . >

In addition, I fail to see how these MyRAs will make it any easier for working people to save for retirement. The 'problems' the MyRAs appear to address are those of (1) risk to principal investment, and (2) uncertain return. But the reason working people haven't been saving for retirement is not because standard IRAs are too risky or their returns too uncertain. The reason people haven't been saving money for retirement is that their real wages have been flat for the last two decades, thus they don't have any money left over, after meeting basic living expenses, to save. The proposed MyRAs do nothing to address that fundamental problem.

I was encouraged by much of what the President said about the environment. But then he went on to tout continued fracking. And then, in a final contradiction, he proceeded to champion his beloved trade agreements -- particularly the TPP, which works at cross-purposes of both environmental protection and income inequality.

On the surface, it sounded like a great speech, and he certainly did an impressive job of delivering it. But sadly, like so many things with this Administration, when you begin delving into the substance of it, you find it's a hot, muddled mess.

[vi5]

1. So basically like the last 5-6 years?

Great speech, poor substance, minimal action (except on the bad, Republican things).

[Demo_Chris]

3. Exactly. nt

[DonViejo]

2. As you wrote,...

The MyRA proposal strikes me as a distraction from the more pressing issue of addressing Social Security (i.e., raising the cap).

You might be correct but, isn't it better to have the proof in the pudding before creating your own distraction and leading folks off a cliff?

[markpkessinger]

17. I am sharing my impressions of the speech . . .

. . . Sorry my impressions were not all sunshine and lollipops, but this IS a discussion board. I'm not leading anybody "off a cliff."

[DonViejo]

26. Thank you for the clarification. eom

[sulphurdunn]

69. STOU speeches

are code: conservative policy wrapped in progressive rhetoric. Wall Street knows that and so should you. If you wait for the pudding you discover it's been concocted to feed rich people and you might get a chance to lip up the crumbs if your lucky.

[tridim]

4. Pessimists will come to that conclusion, yes.

The President said nothing about "further fracking". Zero.

[markpkessinger]

7. He certainly touted fracking . . .

. . . even if he didn't specifically call for more of it:

Now, one of the biggest factors in bringing more jobs back is our commitment to American energy. The all-of-the-above energy strategy I announced a few years ago is working, and today, America is closer to energy independence than we’ve been in decades.

One of the reasons why is natural gas – if extracted safely, it’s the bridge fuel that can power our economy with less of the carbon pollution that causes climate change.

The problem, of course, is that there is very little evidence that fracking can be done safely.

[tridim]

12. No, he did not tout fracking. He said natural gas is a bridge fuel to cleaner fuels.

"If extracted safely".

Most natural gas is NOT extracted via fracking.

You posted the quote, you really don't see the difference? Weird.

[markpkessinger]

14. He was talking about energy independence

The new supplies of natural gas -- the ones that have led to us now being exporters -- are virtually all from the Marcellus Shale region -- and that IS fracked gas.

[rhett o rick]

18. Apparently you dont recognize "rhetoric". Who decides what is "extracting safely"? I hope

you dont think you or I get to decide. The oil companies will produce tons of "experts" that will testify that fracking is safe.

It would have been easy for him to exclude fracking, but he didnt.

[MyNameGoesHere]

40. Yet there is no definition of extracting safely

or any commitment to making sure it is extracted safely. Sometimes, especially in the political realm, what is NOT in a speech is very important. I think he just gave the natural gas industry a pass on safety concerns from fracking. We won't regulate you any more than you are now. Remember these speeches also take into account what NOT to say.

[markpkessinger]

8. The question of whether MyRAs will accomplish anything . . .

. . . by way of making it easier for people to save for retirement isn't really a matter of optimism or pessimism. It's empirical.

[stevenleser]

9. Pessimism is an unfavorable opinion derived from the facts. OP isn't derived from the facts.

It makes up things out of whole cloth that were not said and then develops unfavorable opinions from made up things.

[markpkessinger]

16. Oh, do tell . . .

. . . What, exactly, did I "make up?"

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. The part about ...

What I've heard no one discuss is the president's shocking planned end-run around Social Security which he calls "MyRA". An individualized private investment plan that supplements, (i.e., supplants and circumvents the existing SS retirement plan). Instead of removing the cap and extending the viability of SS well into the future, MyRA does nothing to address future SS problems and instead lays the groundwork for its competition, in which citizens are 'encouraged', (wink-wink) to manage their own retirement.

The MyRA plan doesn't supplant or circumvent the existing SS retirement plan ... it SUPPLEMENTS it, as evidenced by this introductory line:

Today most workers don't have a pension. A Social Security check often isn't enough on its own.

http://theweek.com/article/index/255674/how-will-obamas-new-myra-retirement-plan-work

[stevenleser]

66. Yep. That was pretty glaring. Have no idea where the OP got the things of which he accused Obama

on that one.

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. But on a lighter note ...

It was not all bad ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4408143

[markpkessinger]

70. That was a quote from someone else . . .

. . . and I'll grant you, saying that it is intended to supplant or circumvent Social Security was a leap. But it does represent an effort to further push people into managing their own retirement savings, which in turn feeds into the agenda of those who would like to see Social Security drastically reduced or eliminated. But it wasn't my central point in any case. I was simply pointing out that, to me at least, by touting these instruments as an answer to the problem of retirement savings, while not addressing at all the issue of Social Security, it looks to me as if the President was trying to distract from the Social Security problem -- which is, and remains, the most pressingaspect of the question that needs to be addressed.

Also, other than the convenience of auto-enrollment at work, these MyRAs aren't really any different from an IRA anyone can already open at a local bank. Again, touting this as a solution to inadequate retirement savings completely ignores the fact that most working people have not been able to save even if they had wanted to.

[1StrongBlackMan]

73. Yes ...

you posted what someone else saying that MyRA is a plan to cut social security; but it had nothing to do with your concurring opinion. But then you write here:

I'll grant you, saying that it is intended to supplant or circumvent Social Security was a leap. But it does represent an effort to further push people into managing their own retirement savings, which in turn feeds into the agenda of those who would like to see Social Security drastically reduced or eliminated.

You can't have it both ways ... you either believe it "a leap" or it "feeds into the agenda of those who would like to see SS drastically reduced or eliminated.

And then further, do you have/want to have an IRA (or another retirement savings vehicle)? Does that mean you are one of those who would like to see SS drastically reduced or eliminated, because you have/want self-managed retirement savings?

[SidDithers]

49. +1...nt

Sid

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I just hope we see a raise in the minimum wage.

The rest of it can go into the trash. But I doubt they'll even get that one little thing done. They'll probably give us privatization of Social Security and passage of the TPP and they'll all brag about how they can work together. Anytime they get a chance to fuck us, we get bi-partisanship.

[Niceguy1]

6. thats the way they are

Havent intentionally listened to one in years.

[Myrina]

10. ... and after the SOTU ....

I was aghast to hear Amy Klobuchar on MSNBC post-speech last night talking about the cuts to SNAP in the Farm Bill (paraphrasing) "The GOP wanted $40B in cuts, we wanted $4B, so $8B is a good compromise. Besides, it will only affect targeted groups in 16 states - it doesn't affect my constituents so I'm ok with it."

WTF??? NO CUTS are acceptable. NONE. ZERO.
Regardless of who's constituents they affect.

WTF DEMS??

[markpkessinger]

11. Appalling! n/t

[Scuba]

13. +1

[LuvNewcastle]

22. The GOP didn't really want that 40 billion. They came up with an outlandish number

knowing all the time that the Democrats would be dying to negotiate with them. The GOP probably wanted 10 billion in actuality, so they got it pretty close to where they wanted it. The GOP knows how to negotiate, and they always seem to have the Dems on the defensive. Funny how it always seems to end up that way.

[Myrina]

24. yup, sadly.

n/t

[stillwaiting]

37. The Dems know how to help the GOP negotiate.

Both parties work together to deliver results to TPTB.

It's so freaking obvious at this point.

[LuvNewcastle]

45. Good cop, bad cop. You'd think everybody would be wise to it by now.

[ananda]

25. Agree. Except that SNAP benefits need to be increased and expanded.

..

[sunnystarr]

34. Maybe she already knows

that the "targeted groups in 16 states" won't qualify for SNAP anymore once the minimum wage is raised to $10.10/hour.

[RC]

35. Amy has turned into quite the DINO.

Kind of surprising for Minnesota.

[geardaddy]

39. She's been a huge disappointment here in MN. n/t

[NV Whino]

15. Yes, his strong point is speechifying.

People are so enamored with the rhetoric that they fail to see it lacks substance.

[jsr]

41. Cognitive dissonance abounds.

[TheMathieu]

19. There's a perpetually bitter fringe of our electorate that will never like any President.

They are vocal, mostly insignificant, but collectively part of what's wrong with our country.

We need to start ignoring them and stop rewarding their petulance with attention.

And no, they are not concentrated on just one end of the political spectrum.

[markpkessinger]

20. I don't 'dislike' this President . . .

. . . but I do have some serious policy disagreements with him in certain areas. I'm sorry if your thinking isn't nuanced enough to be able to discern the difference.

[tridim]

21. You disagree with things the President never said or implied. There's your problem.

It comes across as ODS and blind hate because it is a lie.

You still have a chance to retract, but I'm guessing you wont.

[markpkessinger]

29. What are you talking about?

If you are still on the fracking point, note that I did edit the language of my post. It now reads "tout continued fracking." And I stand by that claim. The President was proudly boasting of America's near energy independence. That has come largely from the vast new supplies of natural gas, most of which have come from the Marcellus Shale region and are extracted, contrary to your assertion, by fracking. You can't have it both ways: if the President is going to reference natural gas as a significant part of that energy independence, he is at least clearly supporting the fracking that is already occurring (even if he isn't specifically calling for more).

The other observations I made were about the MyRAs and his reference to trade agreements. He may not have referenced the TPP by name, but when he spoke of "new trade partnerships with Europe and the Asia-Pacific," at a time when his administration is actively seeking to push the TPP through Congress, to deny that he was indirectly referencing the TPP is to engage in a level of denial that approaches the pathological.

So tell me again where I "lied" in my OP?

[tridim]

30. You're standing by a lie. Fantastic.

Later.

[markpkessinger]

32. And you keep saying I've lied, but will point to no specifics n/t

[adirondacker]

44. Perhaps he's just pissed off that the Dean side of the party wasn't all that impressed...

"Dean's brother Jim Dean, chairman of the liberal advocacy group Democracy for America, offered a harsher tone: "The speech's bold message is a strong first step, but the country and progressives expect the president to deliver on his promises."

Back in Tauber's living room, there was no applause and few smiles after Obama finished his address.

"It was a typical mainstream centrist speech," Deborah Shah, who leads the group Progressive Massachusetts, said as she headed for the door. "I'm generally underwhelmed.""

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/obama-state-of-the-union-democrats

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. But the Elizabeth Warren wing of the party ...

appears encouraged.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024407391

Oh no ... whom to side with? Wait ... aren't/weren't they on the same side?

[adirondacker]

65. We're all on the same side but I can't keep track of the line in the center. I'll jump ship when the

party includes the likes of a past crazy uncle's McCarthyite political beliefs. To be quite honest, I like Barack Obama as a person, but the appeasement of the center right and wealthy has worn thin on my admiration of him as president. Perhaps he'll take off the gloves at some point, but I highly doubt someone, that is this pragmatic, will.

I wasn't sitting at the edge of my seat cheering last night during the SOTU, but then again I wasn't wanting to throw a rock through it and turning it off, like the previous occupier.

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. LOL ...

You indicate "Pragmatic", i.e., prag·mat·ic adjective \prag-ˈma-tik\

: dealing with the problems that exist in a specific situation in a reasonable and logical way instead of depending on ideas and theories,
as if that's a bad thing in a President, with a divided government with an uncompromising opposition and divided electorate.

[Fumesucker]

42. Welcome to the DU

Yes, there were a perpetually bitter fringe that never liked Dubya. Here around the DU we call them "Ten Percenters" because they were only ten percent of the population when C Plus Augustus was at the peak of his popularity, a negligible portion of the population.

Oddly enough it was the ten percenters who turned out to be correct in the long run.

Imagine that.

[madokie]

23. He just can't win for loosing can he

Man o man

f* f* f*

[ProSense]

27. "In addition, I fail to see how these MyRAs will make it any easier for working people to save"

I don't think that's a reason to scrap it.

"The reason people haven't been saving money for retirement is that their real wages have been flat for the last two decades, thus they don't have any money left over, after meeting basic living expenses, to save. "

He's increasing the minimum wage for hundreds of thousands, pushing to increase it overall and to create jobs with higher wages, and offering an alternative to the existing and restrictive retirement savings vehicles.

Why is that bad?

[markpkessinger]

31. Yeah, I bet those folks who will now be making all of $10.10 per hour

. . . can't wait to see how fast those MyRA balances add up!

Look, there's nothing wrong with raising the minimum wage. The problem is $10.10 isn't nearly enough of a raise to lift people out of poverty. Will it help? Of course. But it remains woefully inadequate.

[ProSense]

33. Actually,

"Look, there's nothing wrong with raising the minimum wage. The problem is $10.10 isn't nearly enough of a raise to lift people out of poverty. Will it help? Of course. But it remains woefully inadequate."

...that's beyond inaccurate. It will have a significant impact.

The days are long over when minimum wage workers were high school kids from middle-class families picking up spending money working after school. The workers who will benefit from a minimum wage hike are overwhelmingly adults, many of whom are supporting children. The higher minimum wage will also put a substantial dent in the poverty numbers, reducing the share of the population in poverty by 1 to 2 percentage points, close to 5 million people.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/dean-baker/53892/president-obamas-inequality-story

The Tight Link Between the Minimum Wage and Wage Inequality

by Lawrence Mishel

A higher minimum wage is an important way to address wage inequality, as the erosion of the minimum wage is the main reason for the increase in inequality between low-and middle-wage workers (in particular the 50/10 wage gap, that between the median and the 10th percentile earner). This is particularly true among women, the group for whom the wage gap in the bottom half grew the most. As the figure below shows, two-thirds of the increase in the 50-10 wage gap can be attributed to the erosion of the real value of the minimum wage. [The 50/10 wage gap grew 25.2 (log) percentage points between 1979 and 2009 and that two-thirds of this increase (16.5 percentage points, or 65 percent of the total) can be attributed to the erosion of the minimum wage.] The paper this figure draws on usefully and appropriately captures the spillover impact of the minimum wage—the impact on those earning above the legislated rate. This finding makes sense, since it was in the 1980s that the minimum wage eroded the most, and that was the same time period when the 50/10 wage gap among women expanded greatly. The erosion of the minimum wage explains over a tenth (11.3 percent) of the smaller 5.3 (log) percentage point expansion of the 50/10 wage gap among men. For workers overall more than half (57 percent) of the increase in the 50/10 wage gap was accounted for by the erosion of the minimum wage.



- more -

http://www.epi.org/blog/tight-link-minimum-wage-wage-inequality/

[markpkessinger]

36. I never said raising the minimum wage wasn't a good way to address income inequality . . .

. . . I said that raising it to a paltry $10.10 isn't nearly enough of a raise to accomplish that goal. Will it be a significant help to the recipients? Of course -- I never suggested otherwise. It's just way too small an increase.

[ProSense]

38. You said it wouldn't "lift people out of poverty." That's inaccurate. n/t

[markpkessinger]

43. Well, if we're going by the federal poverty threshhold . . .

. . . then a single, full time worker, even at the current $7.25, is already above the poverty threshhold ($11,490 is the threshhold for a single adult). But I think we can both agree that the federal threshhold is obscenely low. I would argue that anything less than about $20-$22K for a single adult still constitutes effective poverty in most areas of this country.

[ProSense]

58. Here's another good piece

Raising Minimum Wage Can Yank Millions Out of Poverty and Jump-Start Economy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021247600

[joeglow3]

62. What is a reasonable amount?

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. The MyRA is not targetted to ...

the minimum wage worker; but rather the middleclass ... as evidenced by this introductory sentence:

And if this Congress wants to help, work with me to fix an upside-down tax code that gives big tax breaks to help the wealthy save, but does little or nothing for middle-class Americans, offer every American access to an automatic IRA on the job, so they can save at work just like everybody in this chamber can.

[yeoman6987]

76. I agree

I think it should be a minimum of 25 dollars. I did express my thoughts on this last week and was criticized on this site no less. It was rather disappointing to say the least.

[Marrah_G]

28. MyRA is going to be the same as IRA in my case

Non-existant. Can't save anything if there isn't enough money to play the bills in the first place.

[dorkzilla]

46. +1

Until about 4 years ago I worked mostly as an executive assistant for some prominent people/companies. I was well compensated. I was lucky enough to have a 401k, but when it came to putting money away, there was a mortgage, car payment and basic living expenses. I didn't live lavishly at all, bought (and still do) all my decor 2nd hand, lived in a modest neighborhood in a small house…I never could afford to put money away, to invest etc. Then a divorce, a layoff, and a husband who was taking credit cards out in my name and taking cash advances landed me destitute, the 401k liquidated and i am STILL living hand to mouth.

[Marrah_G]

47. Washington really has no clue how most of us live.

[Myrina]

48. Exactly. And even if I did have money to invest ...

.... would I really want to be investing it with the same crooks and creeps who live by insider trading, ponzi schemes and book cooking?

Sounds like a guaranteed way to kiss more of my own money goodbye - I'd be better off lighting it on fire, at least I could benefit temporarily from the heat.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. BINGO! ...

After hearing the SOTU Address, my hopes for winning DU Response Bingo looked pretty dim, as I had:

See he really IS going to cut Social Security ... this time!!!!!

on every one of my 6 cards.

But thanks ... you filled my square ... and all before 9:00a.m.!

The MyRA plan is NOT an attempt to supplant or circumvent the existing SS retirement plan; but rather a plan to SUPPLEMENT the existing SS retirement plan.

http://theweek.com/article/index/255674/how-will-obamas-new-myra-retirement-plan-work

[MannyGoldstein]

51. MyRA's are likely a response to Elizabeth Warren and others

screaming about the looming retirement catastrophe. They will be handled by the bankers, so another sweet kiss to that group. Unfortunately, as you say, people have no extra money to save anyway, so this will affect a small percentage of Americans. Obama knows that. He just wants that difficult woman to stop making it hurt.

[markpkessinger]

72. Good point . . .

. . . I wonder if it will work!

[Common Sense Party]

53. The myRA is a silly idea, a non-effective "solution" to a problem that isn't real

IRA plans already exist, and you can get a much better yield on other types of savings vehicles and investments.

Then, the President attacked the tax benefits of 401(k)'s, which is just foolish and short-sighted.

[1StrongBlackMan]

57. Okay ...

But IRA Plans, while likely to yield more than the MyRA plan; they are also subject to loss of premium, unlike the Treasury Bond based MyRA plan.

[Common Sense Party]

60. Depends on what you invest in.

You can put your money in a CD, in muni bonds, in annuities and have the same basic protection of premium. And you can put your IRA in Treasuries.

This doesn't really solve anything.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. I don't think ...

it was to "solve", so much as provide an alternative.

[Common Sense Party]

63. I guess that's one way of looking at it.

But with so many real problems that need solving--big, hairy problems--I don't know why he's wasting time with these alternatives.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Probably because ...

the perceived lack of safe retirement plans alternatives is a big, hairy problem, for those that perceived lack of safe retirement plans alternatives.

I guess one speech can't please everyone.

[markpkessinger]

71. But again . . .

. . . Potential loss of premium is not, and has not been, the primary barrier to people saving for retirement.

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. True ...

But it DOES distinguish between the MyRA plans and other IRA plans (which was my purpose).

[lostincalifornia]

55. please educate me exactly what he can really do with the republicans controlling the house in regard

to minimum wage?

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. Exactly what he said he will do ...

issue an Executive Order requiring new federal contractors to pay a minimum wage of $10.10/hr.

[lostincalifornia]

75. That is my point to the op, he can only do that for federal employees, to deal with non-federal, he

Needs congress

[woo me with science]

77. K&R