Why the Republicans will attack the MyRA retirement idea in the SOTU.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

Obama offered a retirement program based on BONDS.

Bonds are a RIVAL to STOCKS.

Need I go on?

[unblock]

1. you think wall street doesn't make money from bonds?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

2. The bond market does.

[DonViejo]

3. 'pukes ain't the only one's coming up with opposition...

I've already seen Dems writing "it's a conspiracy to do away with Social Security!!"

[Spitfire of ATJ]

5. Now THAT is typical....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1068&pid=1746

[hollysmom]

8. I wouldn't say taht, but I would rather that money got into SS and that program be raised rather

than invest in bonds

On the other hand if people are investing in US bonds they will be less dependent on SS money so maybe that would uninspire the repugs. I cashed in all my US bonds, When I was younger they were for my schooling, then they were for my Nephew and nieces schooling, it wasn't very much but they liked it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. I'm old enough to remember a time when buying bonds was patriotic.....

....and not a tax dodge.

[hollysmom]

49. did you pay for stamps in grammar school that filled up books that were traded in for bonds?

[Mass]

4. You could have stopped at the first word: Obama.

Because otherwise the GOP would be on board. Investing to prepare for retirement is what they have been asking for.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. They will claim those bonds are increasing the national debt.

[magical thyme]

7. it strikes me as just an alternate form of IRA

from the little I've read about it.

Fixed return instead of the variability of IRAs.

It's a nice addition, but it depends on 1 thing:

1. people having enough left over to actually invest in it.

And depending on the rules around it, it may depend on a 2nd thing:

2. people being able to survive long bouts of unemployment, etc. without touching it.


I work in customer service for a mutual fund company. I've seen a fair number of people forced to tap into their IRAs early, taking big losses, plus penalties, to get through emergencies.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. Even normal business cycles. Look at the people who work construction back east....

You can't dig when the ground is frozen and late springs can eat them alive financially.

[magical thyme]

11. True, that. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

9. And considering that

with the Fed stimulus tapering down, this means that eventually, the interest rates will be going up (which means the bond interest rates will be going up eventually making them a better value due to being less risky).

But I do expect that they will probably attempt to create SonOfJunkBond™ to "get theirs" anyway.

[mike_c]

12. I'll keep my defined benefit pension plan, thank you....

That is the gold standard that EVERY worker should have.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. A lot of people had those and they discovered Wall Street applauds breach of contract with workers.

[mike_c]

14. private sector workers need the same pension protections as public employees....

CalPERS has never, to my knowledge, failed to meet its pension obligations, and ALL workers should have that level of confidence in the solidity of their pensions. My retirement doesn't depend on a glorified savings account-- interestingly, I also have some investments in a TIAA-CREF retirement account. That lost nearly half its value in the last financial crisis, and has only just begun to approach its pre-collapse worth again. My defined benefit plan, on the other hand, didn't change one whit. My pension will depend upon my number of years of service and my salary at retirement-- not on how much I could afford to deposit in a bank account or upon the performance of that account's investments. It won't stop when the money runs out, and my partner will continue to receive it after I die. It includes full medical benefits, for life. Only a very tiny percentage of IRA holders can afford to individually save enough to accomplish that. Any proposal that makes an IRA the basis for retirement savings is thin sauce indeed, compared to a good defined benefit pension plan.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

16. That is like what Obama proposed. The Right will hate it because they can't steal from it.

[exboyfil]

51. CalPERS is an alternative to Social Security in many cases

The money to fund it comes from your and your employers withholdings in it (similar to the share taken by private workers into Social Security). The big difference is that it does not have a sliding scale on benefits (those making between about $50K and $100K) receiving substantially lower return on those dollars in that amount in the Social Security system. In addition CalPERS has a widely diversified investment portfolio. Typically state workers are better compensated that the average worker in the state so you will need much better than an equivalent withholding into the Social Security system.

To summarize California public workers have about 13% of their paychecks to fund the system you describe that does not exist for other workers (both other states in most cases and all private). It is actually an argument for a system different than Social Security. I don't know all the details of how compensation is set and whether it has such a dramatic sliding scale for earnings like Social Security. If it does then its inequity is not as severe as if benefits are defined on a straight scale.

You have the taxing authority available to the state in case their is ever a screw up in the investment funds (they always withhold your percentage but your employer can reduce its withholding just like private industry managed funds if returns are greater than expected).

At the end of the day someone has the cover the benefits for the lower paid workers, and that someone are those in private industry making between $50K and $100K.

I am not slamming public workers just bringing up the facts. I think everyone should be under Social Security (like they did in the 1980s with federal workers).

http://www.governing.com/columns/public-money/FICA-free-lunch-crowd.html

[liberal_at_heart]

15. Left leaning liberals don't like it either by the way. We should be fighting for

living wages, unions, pensions, and Social Security. People can go down to their local Scottrade and invest in a retirement account. The problem is nobody has any money to put into a retirement account. Offering bonds in a personal retirement account won't do a damn thing.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. I would say the same thing but he also proposed giving America a raise.

[liberal_at_heart]

18. He gave government contractors a raise and not a big enough one either.

Then he asked business leaders to raise the minimum wage. He shouldn't be asking the 1% to raise the minimum wage. He should be fighting Congress and maybe flexing that pen he said he was going to use to raise the national minimum wage, and not to $9/hr. A suburb of Seattle just raised the minimum wage to $15/hr. Considering how many decades wages have been stagnant and cost of rent, groceries, and college keeps going through the roof, we need at least $15/hr national minimum wage if not more.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. He stated $10.10 AND he said women should not be paid less....

This is something that was pushed back when the ERA failed.

FORCE a vote and put these bastards on the record of voting against women.

BTW: the figure from the 60s would put minimum wage / productivity at over $20 an hour.

I can believe that because a studio apartment I rented years ago for $350 now goes for over $1,000 while the job I had back then probably pays about the same.

[liberal_at_heart]

22. My mistake. I did not know he had amended his previous proposal for the national minimum wage.

His original proposal was $9/hr. We have had decades of stagnant wages. We need a $15/hr minimum wage if not more. $10.10 is not going to pull people out of poverty.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. True, but people now making $12 are going to expect $15 and so on.

[liberal_at_heart]

25. Well if the minimum wage is $15/hr then those making $12/hr would get a raise.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. Did you catch this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4353044

And:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4288265

[liberal_at_heart]

30. I agree with that. That's why we need the national minimum wage to be higher.

If being asked to voluntarily do anything, the majority of business leaders won't do it whether it is bank regulations, environmental regulations or workers rights.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. Exactly. It has to be a LAW.

[okaawhatever]

19. that's ridiculous. The whole point of this is to allow these individuals to invest when they can't

meet the minimum required by scotttrade and the like. You can save in $5 increments. It's a place for you to put little bits of money until you can get enough to roll over into one of the existing tax deferred plans. It's a way for low income earners and young people to enjoy tax deferment on income earned that is currently only enjoyed by the wealthier.

I find your response rather disappointing. It's clear you didn't learn anytbing about the program before you decided to bad mouth it and the President. I have to question whether you're one of the right wing trolls who come on here and just bash everything as not being good enough. Especially when you wouldn't take the sixty seconds required to learn about it.

[liberal_at_heart]

20. It won't work. It is a corporate bandaid to a much, much larger problem.

The real problem is unions being busted, pensions being stolen, wages being stagnant for decades and cost of living way too high for most of the country. These are the problems we should be tackling. And by the way if you can't afford Scottrade, Sharebuilder lets people buy fractions of shares at any price point you can afford. People can't afford retirement savings. That is the point, and that is the problem.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. That's what's great about this. It's a pension plan that is safe.

[liberal_at_heart]

26. Government workers are not immune from having pensions raided.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. Only at the city/state level.

[liberal_at_heart]

32. do you remember this?

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/10/news/economy/federal-workers-pension/

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. Was that part of the sequester?

[Skittles]

35. you're really being naive

eventually they will trash EVERYONE

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Funny how trash projects trash.

[Skittles]

39. go ahead and explain that

go on

[Spitfire of ATJ]

41. Republicans are constantly projecting all of their traits onto others....

Hence, when they trash a plan by claiming it's a scam it's because all they can come up with are scams.

That is why it never even OCCURS to them to offer something of their own.

[Skittles]

43. I agree they would love this plan if it wasn't being offered by Obama

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. They wouldn't propose ANY plan involving bonds....

They HATE bonds.

Back when the market crashed the investor class in a panic transfered a ton of money over to the security of the bond market and the Republicans went insane as did the folks on Wall Street.

Republicans want people to hand over their money to the stock market so it can be ripped off by their criminal friends. That is why job one for Boehner was to run before the microphones and say, "We're broke". Republicans are always claiming America is short of money to make people believe that investing in bonds is risky.

Remember, when someone says Republicans are "threatening the full faith and credit of the United States" it's intentional to scare the crap out of bond holders and make them believe those bonds are "IOUs" and that the United States could renege on honoring them.

This is all a campaign aimed at the rich in full public display.

[Skittles]

46. I am reading reaction from republicans

they claim it is another example of government taking your money.....hoo boy

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. Followed by an attempt to sell you gold.

[Skittles]

48. LOL

[LordGlenconner]

29. Anyone who can afford to save for retirement is an oligarch

That's apparently the new meme around here.

[liberal_at_heart]

33. no. It just makes them lucky. Not everyone is as lucky as those who can save for retirement.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. Actually, I consider THIS to be "rich"...

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/nyc/sales/0018793

[exboyfil]

52. The problem is that it does take some effort

administer any amount. About the same amount of effort whether it is $5 or $5,000 deposit. There is a program called Treasury Direct. All you need to do is bring the IRA umbrella under a Treasury Direct account and you are done. It currently has a $100 minimum investment. Someone will have to cover the added transactional costs if the minimum was lowered to $5.

I also think all 401(k)s should allow workers to invest directly in Treasuries (not just bond funds).

These are simple changes that should happen. On the other hand you will never be able to build a retirement at $5/week investing in Treasury bonds. Right now the 30 year is earning 3.6%. When you consider inflation you could probably expect to only make 2 to 3% real return in bonds over time. The glory days of the mid-80s of 14% interest are far gone.

[elleng]

34. BECAUSE

'Obama offered' it.

[TheMathieu]

40. The more pathways to saving money, the better.

I believe in consumers having many options from which to choose.

There should never be one pathway to retirement.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. True, but it's nice to see a "public option"....

[jmowreader]

50. Dude. No.

They will attack the MyRA plan because it came from Obama.

Easy example: Pretend the Republican Party were to come to work one day and write a law that says every single American over the age of 18 is to get an American flag tattooed on their right forearm. Okay, no problem, extremely cheesy but we'll go for it. If Obama were to walk into Congress and display the American-flag tattoo he just had put on his right forearm, they would stand up as one and claim that American-flag tattoos are desecration because...well, you might accidentally sleep on your forearm or not illuminate it 24/7 or something.

Always remember: if Obama says it or does it, it's bad. Because...well, Benghazi.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

53. I just watched an archived copy of Real Time with Bill Maher from 11/07/08...

The first show after Obama's first election when enthusiasm was at it's height.

It culminated in this: