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20score

(4,769 posts)
Wed Jan 29, 2014, 10:12 PM Jan 2014

One Small Step. Should Scare the Hell Out of You.

Last edited Sat Sep 13, 2014, 07:17 PM - Edit history (1)

(This is a repost from four years ago, when Democrats generally agreed that ubiquitous spying was a bad thing. The article is even more relevant today.)

From observation to restriction. Your every move, your every purchase, your every email can be and is being tracked. Sometimes by the government, sometimes by a corporation; and the line between the two entities becomes less distinct every day. The potential for abuse is tempting to those who want power, and the tendency toward apathy is great for those who want a false sense of security. But the problem isn’t with the technology; it’s with the laws. The technology is here and improving every day, to rail against the inevitable would be as futile as using a bucket to hold back the tide. There has always been the possibility and even a propensity for abuse, (in some) even in the pre-industrial world. But we can thank those like Jefferson and Madison who insisted that individuals have a right to remain unmolested, as long as they were innocent of any crime, and for the fact that we were not spied upon at all hours of the day in the past. It’s time to stop taking those rights for granted while letting them slip away.

We already have the PATRIOT ACT, National Security Letters, and AT&T turning over our records with no warrant. Now the Justice Department wants to be able to track anyone’s movements with no warrant. Why are these things so important when the system put in place in 1978 already favored law enforcement? Why are they necessary if they won’t really be used? When set against economic injustice, environmental devastation and wars, the assault on civil liberties may seem to pale in comparison. But without true civil liberties, our ability to address those other problems is non-existent. Once it is accepted by the citizens that it’s okay for the government to watch us all the time, as long as “I have nothing to hide” we will have set ourselves up to have a society where the word ‘freedom’ will have no real meaning.

There are many people rightly upset by the continued assault on unions and the middle class in general, myself included. At a time when our insurance companies should have been permanently reined in, they are swelling their profits and their power. Legal bribery of our politicians has been expanded at a time when it needed to be eliminated. Legal raiding of our treasury is obvious enough to sicken any who care, and we have a massive portion of our country fighting against their own interests. And to me these things are linked to potential future abuses that are possible by limiting long established rights. And with wealth being held by a smaller and smaller portion of the population, there will naturally be some who will insist on tighter controls. (The Stasi and the KGB didn’t need to spy on all people at all times, just enough of the population to let people know it was dangerous to step out of line. With advances in technology, almost total surveillance is possible.)

We have all seen first hand how quickly circumstances can change and how easily people can be manipulated. That alone should prod people into action. Some of the same people who ridiculed the burning of the Beatles albums in the 60’s, participated in the burning of the Dixie Chicks CD’s in 2003. In a matter of months, the media was able to convince about half the nation of a complete falsehood - that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Support for torture increased, just by changing its name. Many people were, and still are, ready to cede the power of the Legislative and Judicial branches to the President, and were/are claiming, against all evidence, that doing so is the Most American position.

By ignoring the slow encroachment of government and corporations melding, and ignoring the erosion of the need for probable cause before surveillance, we risk losing the most important thing there is about being American.

Years ago someone explained to me that he thought society was analogous to a rock suspended over the ground by a rope. The ground represented authoritarianism and that was where society had a natural predisposition to fall. But there were people who were on the other end of that rope that made it there job to keep society as just as possible. The more people on that rope, the better.

We need to heed the warnings from years ago, from Orwell, Huxley and others and realize the future is already here.




http://www.wider.unu.edu/events/past-events/2006-events/en_GB/05-12-2006/

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gjCPfFdmocBeGyr_-lqmLC_3CfcAD9DQS4Q84

http://people.reed.edu/~gronkep/TortureWhitePaperV2.pdf

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/internal-report-finds-flagrant-national-security-letter-abuse-fbi

http://atlanticreview.org/archives/726-More-Americans-Believe-that-Saddam-Was-Directly-Involved-in-911.html

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
One Small Step. Should Scare the Hell Out of You. (Original Post) 20score Jan 2014 OP
Big ass K & R! punkin87 Jan 2014 #1
Well done!! suede1 Jan 2014 #2
They haven't yet. Last time there were over 60 responses. 20score Jan 2014 #3
update on illegal parralel construction of evidence questionseverything Jan 2014 #19
Thank you. K&R woo me with science Jan 2014 #4
Welcome! 20score Jan 2014 #6
k and r and bookmarking to read later niyad Jan 2014 #5
Indeed Oilwellian Jan 2014 #7
Thanks. 20score Jan 2014 #14
Spot on Oscarmonster13 Jan 2014 #8
It's amazing how they think. 20score Jan 2014 #13
K&R. Well said. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #9
Thanks! 20score Jan 2014 #16
Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Jan 2014 #10
K & R L0oniX Jan 2014 #11
We have seen the enemy. And he is us. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #12
enthusiastic K&R nt laundry_queen Jan 2014 #15
Thanks! 20score Jan 2014 #20
K&R CFLDem Jan 2014 #17
Thanks much! 20score Jan 2014 #18
I remember this marym625 Jan 2014 #21
Well said. 20score Jan 2014 #22
Thank you marym625 Feb 2014 #26
K&R! frankowen7 Jan 2014 #23
kick woo me with science Feb 2014 #24
Really great OP. Thanks for the memories... nt riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #25
Thanks! 20score Feb 2014 #28
K&R liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #27
I think must DUers still agree. A small few appear to change their minds according to 'who is doing sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #29
K&R Solly Mack Feb 2014 #30
kick woo me with science Feb 2014 #31
I think you should repost now. eom marym625 Sep 2014 #32

20score

(4,769 posts)
3. They haven't yet. Last time there were over 60 responses.
Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:01 PM
Jan 2014

Last edited Thu Jan 30, 2014, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)

Like to see what they have to say now.

questionseverything

(9,646 posts)
19. update on illegal parralel construction of evidence
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 11:29 AM
Jan 2014

Muhtorov’s challenge has its roots in the case rejected by the Supreme Court last year. In deciding to dismiss, the Supreme Court relied upon the assurance by the U.S. solicitor general that the government would notify criminal defendants when it had used evidence from the surveillance.

But the solicitor general at the time did not know that the Justice Department had a policy to conceal such evidence from defendants. He learned of it only after some criminal defendants sought clarification of remarks that Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) made in late 2012 that the government had used evidence from warrantless monitoring in certain cases. The department reversed its policy last year.
/////////////////////////////////////////////

so the solicitor general presented false info to the supreme court????? because he did not know that justice department was (illegally) concealing evidence???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/terrorism-suspect-challenges-warrantless-surveillance/2014/01/29/fb9cc2ae-88f1-11e3-a5bd-844629433ba3_story.html

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
7. Indeed
Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:56 PM
Jan 2014
By ignoring the slow encroachment of government and corporations melding, and ignoring erosion of the need for probable cause before surveillance, we risk losing the most important thing there is about being American.


K&R

Oscarmonster13

(209 posts)
8. Spot on
Wed Jan 29, 2014, 11:58 PM
Jan 2014

how sad/scary that this was true then, and is more so now.

I keep saying it: For all those who say "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" or "I trust our POTUS to do the right thing" or "It's for our own good" ...realize that these actions by our government set a legal precedent that will continue to undermine our civil liberties for decades to come. And while some feel "safe" right now with a (D) in office...woe to us when that eventually is controlled by someone with far more sinister agendas...

marym625

(17,997 posts)
21. I remember this
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 05:51 PM
Jan 2014

very well done. Very little you and I disagree about.

I will never understand apologists. People that defend things like the NSA and call themselves liberals, must not pay attention, lie or they're just plain stupid.

Major protests of the late 60s and early 70s were part of what helped bring change. One such protest was against the Democratic Party at the Convention in 1968. Those protesters were not a bunch of conservatives. We need to realize that "party line politics" no longer exists. It's all about the money and it's everywhere.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
29. I think must DUers still agree. A small few appear to change their minds according to 'who is doing
Sun Feb 2, 2014, 12:56 AM
Feb 2014

it' but most people know the difference between right and wrong and thanks to Snowden's revelations, and all the others before him, more Americans now understand what has been going on. As a result of the information getting to them, a majority oppose having their Constitutional Rights abused and violated.

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