New Alabama Law Would Allow Hospitals To Turn Away Women Who Are Miscarrying.

[TheMastersNemesis]

If passed a woman having a problem with her pregnancy could be denied health care. The view seems to be that helping a woman in distress that might end her pregnancy would be like aiding in abortion.

HOW FUCKING CRUEL ARE THESE GOD DAMNED BARBARIANS GOING TO GET?

[theHandpuppet]

1. What?? Do you have a link?

This is insane.

[TheMastersNemesis]

4. Crooks And Liars "Alabama Anti Cloning Bill ----"

[Ilsa]

9. Here is one link

to the ridiculous discussion:
http://slumz.boxden.com/f5/jan-30-alabama-anti-cloning-bill-would-allow-hospitals-turn-away-miscarrying-women-2033395/

[riversedge]

2. Nothing makes sense about that proposed law. Can it even

be legal for a hospital to refuse care for someone in obvious distress?

[okaawhatever]

12. Many of the new anti-abortion, anti-birth control laws are designed to make it to the

supreme court. The plan has been for some time to get the court to overturn roe v wade and several other cases involving women's rights. It's the same reason the NRA has been passing so many crazy laws at the state level. Ditto Citizens United.
.
Reagan and the Bushs' worked very hard for years appointing this scotus. They're the most extreme right wingers anyone could find.

[AngryAmish]

25. No still illegal under COBRA

[Ilsa]

3. Why aren't the doctors and nurses screaming

Bloody murder? Are the associations ignoring this foolishness or do they not care?

The cruelty is almost beyond belief.

[TheMastersNemesis]

7. They Would Take Their Licenses Or Murder Them.

[TexasTowelie]

8. See post #6.

I saw this story last night.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Link

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/30/alabama-anti-cloning-bill-would-allow-hospitals-to-turn-away-miscarrying-women/

[TexasTowelie]

6. I posted a story about this in the Alabama Group early this morning.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1008399

https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproductive-freedom-womens-rights/alabama-hospitals-pregnant-women-sorry-honey-we-wont-help .

[TheMastersNemesis]

10. Crooks And Liars Just Put Up Additional Article.

The GOP get more imaginative and mean every minute. Women will die with this law.

[theHandpuppet]

11. Here's the link

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/30/alabama-anti-cloning-bill-would-allow-hospitals-to-turn-away-miscarrying-women/

Alabama anti-cloning bill would allow hospitals to turn away miscarrying women
By David Edwards
Thursday, January 30

Civil rights experts have warned that a bill approved by the Alabama state House last week would allow hospitals to turn away pregnant women who were experiencing a miscarriage.

State Rep. Becky Nordgren’s (R) HB31 — or the Health Care Rights of Conscience Act — would allow any health care profession to refuse to participate in abortion, sterilization, human cloning and embryonic stem cell research.

According to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), that means that hospital staff could refuse to take part in ending a woman’s pregnancy during a miscarriage even if her health was at stake...

... “This means that even if the hospitals know that the on-duty doctor won’t provide appropriate medical care, Alabama law says that in most cases they have no obligation to find someone who will,” the ACLU noted. “In effect, the Alabama legislature is saying to a pregnant woman in distress, ‘Good luck. You are on your own.’

MORE

[dem in texas]

13. Isn't this what happened in Ireland a while back?

A woman was having problems and the hospital refused to abort the fetus. She went to the hospital three times but they would not help her. She died because treatment was refused.

[TheMastersNemesis]

14. I Believe I Saw That Story

It is negligent homicide as far as I am concerned.

[SunSeeker]

18. Yup, they would not abort the miscarrying fetus and she died of infection.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/world/europe/jury-cites-poor-medical-care-in-death-of-indian-woman-in-ireland.html

Ireland has a ban on abortions in their constitution. Doctors aren't allowed to abort a fetus with a heartbeat. In that poor woman's case, even though she was miscarrying, the fetus still had a heartbeat, so they wouldn't help her. By the time the fetus' heartbeat finally stopped, the woman's totally treatable infection---if treated when she first came to the hospital with the miscarriage--had over the ensuing days developed into a raging blood infection that was no longer treatable and the woman, a dentist, died of septicemia.

Although the hospital was found to have given the woman "poor medical care," the doctors were not charged, apparently because they were constrained from acting due to Irish law. An attempt was made to change the law, expanding the circumstances when abortion is legal to include cases like this woman's, but the measure, last I heard, was stalled by staunch anti-abortion Catholic legislators.

[LadyHawkAZ]

15. How would that not conflict with EMTALA?

Miscarriage is an emergency condition, is it not?

[TheMastersNemesis]

16. Being An Emergency Is Not Relevant To These People.

Anyone with a brain knows that miscarriage is a dangerous emergency probably usually is life threatening.

[LadyHawkAZ]

17. True, and we know they lack a brain...

but still, even for a make-a-statement law, this is pretty dumb.

[ReRe]

19. Every day, I wake up in a country I don't recognize!

... Life is becoming a nightmare for women. All I can say is women need to stay the eff away from red states, if they're in their childbearing years. And women with daughters of school age.

[2naSalit]

20. Wouldn't it be interesting

if the women in that state just walked out (if they could actually afford to) and left all the men to figure out what to do without them for all the domestic stuff they do for them and leave them with less than half the workers of mundane tasks?

And it would be great if, even if they didn't leave, they refused to have sex or do anything for the men? Just stand around and glare at them for a few months? Not lift a finger, no cooking, no cleaning, no secretaries or any of the work women are allowed to do in that backward state? And certainly not render any medical aid of any kind, no matter who or what.

Maybe then these cads could figure out how to extract their heads from their asses.

[jmowreader]

21. It worked in Lysistrata

Aristophanes has been dead for a while, but the theory is sound.

[2naSalit]

33. That was what I had

swir;ing around in the back of my mind when I started the comment. It did work, it stopped a war! If American women could see the incredible value in such action a lot of sh*t could actually be flushed down the toity! Men need to be put in their place IMHO. Taking away their favorite past-time would certainly make a statement.

[jmowreader]

36. Their FAVORITE pastime?

I thought you were talking about sex, not shooting guns, bragging about fast cars or watching sports on TV.

One would think that if sex was their favorite pastime, the woman whose husband truly satisfies her in bed would't be held as a near-mythic being.

[2naSalit]

38. I see it as

their favorite past-time that they also take for granted. Many feel that once they have "conquered" their partner, it's just a given that sex is the woman's job and if they don't deliver, any number of "consequences" ensue from lack of respect to physical violence and domestic rape, among other things.

The gunz, and bragging and sports is how they try to impress each other, the women are expected to play along and back them up on their claims. The aspect of whether they really impressed their buddies/competitors is for the womenfolk to compensate with sex. It is a vicious circular issue that always comes back around to sex.

[avebury]

27. What would be interesting is if more and more women

refused to even get pregnant. It is possible that the more well educated women in the future might turn away from becoming a mother if it means losing their civil and constitutional rights. Imagine who the heads of the uber conservative white crowd would explode if the white population spiraled into minority status even faster then it already is.

Unless a woman really really wants to be a mom, I just don't see that it is worth it anymore. And, if you aren't really interested in being a Mom, why even bother getting married? Marriage is an antiquated system.

[2naSalit]

34. Good points.

In my Cultural Anthropology classes we had many long discussions on the "purpose and utility" of marriage. Basically it boils down to the legitimacy of offspring and to whom the parental and familial responsibilities would/should go. But since women bear the children, they ultimately end up bearing all the responsibility (since the physical entity emerges from them) and the men, who really have only a few minutes' investment in the whole process take advantage by walking away. Which is probably the basic impetus for the concoction of the marriage activity... to cause men to participate in the rearing of what they created.

And it just annoys me to no end that many cultures - including this one - allow men to make ignorant claims that "she lured me into it" and the idea that men can't help themselves and, therefore, can't be expected to control their sexual urges/desires...



Interestingly, the concept and action of marrying people to one another was based on a religious footing and "states" or governments had no participation in the issue until (actually I don't know who started that) and made it a governmental interest. I'm open to input on that part because if I ever knew, it has found a way to slither out of my aging brain!

[PotatoChip]

22. A ruptured ectopic pregnancy is a medical emergency

that requires immediate medical intervention. The likelihood of death is very high w/out emergency surgery due to massive blood loss.

Ruptured ectopic pregnancy

Emergency surgery is needed if a Fallopian tube ruptures with heavy bleeding. The main aim is to stop the bleeding. The ruptured Fallopian tube and remnant of the early pregnancy are then removed. The operation is often life saving http://www.patient.co.uk/health/ectopic-pregnancy-leaflet

I read the entire article and listened to the video. It does not sound as if any sort of provision has been made to address this. Just the opposite in fact...

An ectopic pregnancy occurs in 1 out of every 100 pregnancies according to the link provided above. When an ectopic pregnancy is diagnosed, there is little choice but to end the pregnancy or else a rupture will occur. It sounds as if this bill would allow a hospital to refuse to end the pregnancy even though it is not viable.

Furthermore, if I am understanding this proposal correctly, once a rupture happens, the hospital could even refuse to save the life of the mother even though a miscarriage caused by rupture (and resulting medical emergency) is already well under way.

And finally, ruptured ectopic pregnancies are not as rare as one would think. Because it happens so early in a pregnancy, (usually no later then 10 to 12 weeks) some women may not even be aware that they are pregnant. Much less frequently (but it can happen), even if the woman is receiving prenatal care, their doctor may fail to detect it in time.

This bill is very bad news for women. I would hope that it goes nowhere but sadly, I'm not as confident of that as I would once have been.

[TheMastersNemesis]

23. Fundies & Catholic Church View - Rupture Must Occur 1st To Confirm Fetal Death.

As long as the fetus is technically viable not intervention can occur because intervention would be abortion. The life of the mother is expendable. The Catholic Church view is the mother must always be sacrificed to save the child.

[gollygee]

24. When I first read The Handmaid's Tale

I liked the book, but it seemed very sci fi-sih. No one would try to control women's bodies to that extent in the US. It just would never happen.

But stuff like this makes it seem less crazy.

[Le Taz Hot]

26. Which could lead to death

if the woman start hemorrhaging. Pro life my ass.

[mstinamotorcity2]

28. Don't ask!!!!!

I am in Michigan. Got Rape Insurance ??????? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/michigan-rape-insurance_n_4428432.html

[davidpdx]

29. What the hell

Is she suppose to have her miscarriage on the curb?

[ck4829]

30. People in Alabama need to get out there and ask what hospital would say 'We can do this now'

They don't care if you live or die if that's the case.

[Brigid]

31. Reece Whitherspoon said it best in "Sweet Home Alabama":

"You need a passport to come down here."

And Chuck Thompson was right.

[Dash87]

32. That seems far-fetched and medically dangerous.

Do you have a source for this info?

Never mind: Found it. I'm still skeptical, though. If the opportunity for this to happen is there, though, this could be bad. Any doctor that took his or her duty seriously would not let someone die.

[dembotoz]

35. i had a spose whose pregnacy went very badly--if i were to be treated this way by a hospital and if

my wife died

i would anticipate my
my responses would be something along the lines of columbine

i am not making a threat

but if faced with that situation i do see an opening for someone to take revenge.

[indepat]

37. Those making the laws in Alabama must wear their love of Jesus on their sleeves: or just how

fuc*ed up a society can become is often found in its laws imo.

[El_Johns]

39. As cruel as we let them.

[Tsiyu]

40. Wow

Hi there. Long time no post.

I read this last night and was absolutely outraged. I have a daughter of child-bearing age. Maybe that's it. And I live close to Alabama. Maybe that's it. And I have PTSD which is triggered most especially when one of my kids is threatened. Maybe that's it.

No, I am outraged because Becky Nordgren, the Repuke MONSTER who pushed this bill, has put every pregnant woman in Alabama at risk of DEATH just to appeal to her knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, backwash base. Those "conservative Christians who believe what Jesus would do is let pregnant women die just so their fetuses can live a few minutes longer.

And I am outraged that this thread is on the third page of DU.

So I am only here to do two things.

1) Give you Nordgren's info: http://www.legislature.state.al.us/house/representatives/housebios/hd029.html

2) Make it clear why I don't post here anymore:

This is mostly a site for mens' issues, and this makes it clear to me more than anything I've seen here to date. When any random porn thread can get hundreds of posts, most of them by OUTRAGED men absolutely LIVID that you might not like porn too ( even if you're not trying to take it away, you just don't like a lot of it, they freak the fuck out ) it is clear that human sexual and reproductive freedom on DU means porn, porn and then some more porn. There is no other sexual or reproductive freedom to consider, to fight for to get outraged about.

Many posters - who I know are Men with daughters - will never post on these threads about women's reproductive rights, but goddamn if you say some porn is creepy and sick to you, these very same guys will come out of the woodwork and stalk and excoriate you as if their very lives depend on it. I mean they FLY to these posts and spend all day insulting any and all who don't agree that all porn is defensible. The flame wars are epic.

But let's get real. You won't die if you don't have porn. It may be a very important part of your life, but it would be hard to argue your very life is at stake over it.

Women WILL die if this law is put into effect. It will be like the Dark Ages in Alabama. And there is no thinking, caring man on this site who should not be absolutely scared shitless over this law.

But it's crickets on DU. "Aw, it's only a thread about wymminzez ladyparts, and we just wanna see em nekkid, we don't care what else happens to them ladyparts, as long as we get to see 'em up close and in action!"

It's just really difficult to take DU seriously anymore when you all would let this thread drop the way you have. This is a site for "the guyziz" and all their whims and peeves and demands. It is not a serious site for women to get any sort of support for anything.

Even for their very lives.

So have a nice day, DU. To those women here who persevere, I give you a lot of credit for not just walking away as I have. There are other places to spend time in advocacy for women and their freedoms and rights.

Advocating for porn is DU, and that's okay, too. It's just what DU is and will always be. This place could be so much more, but it is what it is.

Love to all of you who are my friends here, and a big, fat kiss my ass to all those who are too selfish to care about pregnant women facing the death penalty to give their fetuses a couple more heartbeats.

And K and R

Ciao

[PotatoChip]

41. You make some very valid points.

But please don't leave.

We need you now more than ever!

[PotatoChip]

42. Btw, thanks for the info

I'ma going in, and looking forward to it!

Even if my email gets no audience but some poor wide-eyed intern, it's worth a try!

[Tsiyu]

43. Thank you PotatoChip

I wish I had more time to waste here, but it ultimately became a waste.

Last one of the flame wars, I had a two-year-old "grandbaby" demanding my attention as I responded to my "stalker" and I decided, "You know what? Fuck it!" There's no point in arguing with people who are self-absorbed and lacking compassion. It's a waste of time to argue with grown adolescents who believe they have all the answers about human sexuality. I didn't even bother to read most of the stalker's replies to me. I just walked away and though I lurk here from time to time, I just can't get psyched back up to believe this place will ever take women's issues as seriously as they take their right to porn.

Life is for living, not for arguing with fools so I am spending my time trying to help a local non-profit and posting where there aren't so many misogynists and porn addicts.

Love you for responding and caring, though!