America's Shopping Malls Are Dying A Slow, Ugly Death

[FarCenter]

All across America, once-vibrant shopping malls are boarded up and decaying.

Traffic-driving anchors like Sears and JCPenney are shutting down stores, and mall owners are having a hard time finding retailers large enough to replace them. With a fresh wave of closures on the horizon, the problem is set to accelerate, according to retail and real estate analysts.

About 15% of U.S. malls will fail or be converted into non-retail space within the next 10 years, according to Green Street Advisors, a real estate and REIT analytics firm. That's an increase from less than two years ago, when the firm predicted 10% of malls would fail or be converted.

"The risk of failure for a mall increases dramatically once you see anchor closures," said Cedric Lachance, managing director of Green Street Advisors. "Their health is very important ... and most of them are highly likely to continue closing stores."

Within 15 to 20 years, retail consultant Howard Davidowitz expects as many as half of America's shopping malls to fail. He predicts that only upscale shopping centers with anchors like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus will survive.

...

Most struggling malls don't go down without a long, drawn-out fight, however — the evidence of which exists in hundreds of communities across the country where vacant wings of various shopping centers are beginning to crumble and decay. States hit particularly badly include Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, and Illinois, according to Deadmalls.com, which tracks mall closures.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/shopping-malls-are-going-extinct-2014-1

[CBGLuthier]

1. The one near my house is so popular they park on the grass sometimes.

The one on the south side that died a few years ago has been revived as a hispanic-themed mall. The one east of us is an out-and-out dump.

But Oklahoma has always been a few years behind the national trends.

I have not stepped foot inside a mall in ten years.

[Ilsa]

2. The stores carry mostly crap.

Crappy cheap clothes that are the same in each store, No help with finding and fitting, and now concern about ID theft if one pays electronically.

[mindwalker_i]

8. That part of it

But the other part is that people don't have money anymore to spend on cheap, or non-essential crap.

[Ilsa]

24. I think most people have re-prioritized

and they need less "junk". Others are looking for quality so that the asset is around awhile. And even more people simply don't have the money to spend on anything but food, transportation to work, and shelter.

[Aerows]

54. And no time to spend

picking through the offerings.

[BlueStreak]

105. Thank you. This is the story that nobody talks about.

People don't have the spending power they had 20 years ago, and they don't buy their essential good at the mall.

Not only is there less disposable income, a big part of that now goes to cell phones and cable teevee. That's a big change from 20 years ago.

And finally, who has the time to hang at malls? If you aren't working 2 jobs, you are probably working longer and harder at your one job, and in no mood to go hang at the mall after a day of high stress work.

[itsrobert]

3. The malls around here are getting overhauls and new tenants

The Escondido mall replaced a big space with a Target. A Cheesecake Factory just opened up there doing brisk business (over an hour wait during dinner hour). Another major restaurant chain restaurant is in the works. Parking lots are full. The Carlsbad mall also looks to be gaining more tenants and customers. Down in San Diego, Fashion Valley Mall is filled every time I go over there.

[Nye Bevan]

4. I cannot imagine ever entering a Sears as opposed to going to Amazon.

The only exception would be if it was for something I needed literally that day, and I knew that the store had it.

[homegirl]

37. 95%

I accomplished 95% of my Christmas shopping on Amazon and the internet. No rush, no fuss, no crowds, no searching for a parking space. Everything delivered to my door. A real pleasure.

[RKP5637]

76. Same here. I do most of my shopping on Amazon and eBay. I like the reviews and those along with

my other searches let me know what I am getting. I haven't been to a large mall in years.

We have a small one here, I go there because they have an excellent discount store, a thrift shop and a couple of other stores.

I don't like large malls, the crowds, the parking, the people all over the place, etc., etc. I don't view going to the mall as fun, I view it as a pain in the butt.

[phylny]

93. I hate shopping, plus I live in a rural area. If I need something and can't get it near where I work

which is more suburban, I buy through Amazon or online. I feel badly for all the people who are being put out of work, but I wish there were more really local options where I live. Alas, there are not.

[B Calm]

5. After Target and Pennys left our local mall it's like a ghost town now. Still have a few retirees

using it as an indoor track to get their daily walks in.

[reformist2]

6. Time for roller skating rinks to make a comeback!

Old dumpy malls are the best places for them.

[KittyWampus]

14. Great idea! And bowling alleys.

[reformist2]

81. Yes! My childhood was full of trips to these kind of places - a lot of fun for very little money!

[Downwinder]

20. In-line skates and on-line shopping.

[txwhitedove]

73. Agree! Kids said this week we need a roller skating rink in our neighborhood.

[reformist2]

83. Roller discos were one of the funnier things I remember from my childhood. :)

[snooper2]

85. you can have Sears for that...

I'll need the rest of the mall for my multi-level indoor Kart track

[reformist2]

86. ZOMG... even better!

[tabbycat31]

98. I don't see that happening

First of all barely anything aimed at people under 50 is opening because the powers that be want to keep the riff raff out.

The other thing would be liability insurance.

[phantom power]

7. the obvious connections to our shitty economy aside...

it seems to me that the internet is mostly filling the niche that anchor stores like Sears and JCP used to fill: that is, one-stop shopping.

If I want one-stop shopping, I have Amazon. And if it isn't on Amazon, I can probably find it with Google. If I order >= $25, and if I'm willing to wait 5-9 biz days (which is most of the time), I get free shipping, too.

And, I don't have to endure the attentions of salespeople, who are frequently rather in the high-pressure end of the spectrum. My wife and I, uncharacteristically, actually stopped into Sears a few months ago to try and pick up a small-ish flat screen TV on short notice, and we ultimately left without purchasing anything because the sales-guy was an asshole.

That entire business model is circling the drain.

[LuvNewcastle]

13. Sales people are kind of like cops.

They're never there when you need one, and when one shows up, they usually have an attitude. I agree about shopping online. No sales people, no waiting in lines at the checkout, excellent selection, and usually a rock-bottom price. It's well worth the wait for the goods to arrive.

[SheilaT]

90. Have you ever worked retail?

[arikara]

68. I'm old enough to remember when customer service was considered to be important

You could actually find a sales clerk when you went in the store. Every customer was greeted, and help offered, but not pressured. The big department stores were full of good merchandise even in small towns too, stuff worth buying even if it wasn't marked down 90% off. I used to work in the Bay for a few years, we made a very decent wage.

Then the Bay changed their business model and kept going cheaper, changed to Zellers then to something else I don't even know what it was, nothing but junk regardless. Now Target (Canadian version) has moved in to a lot of those places, I walked into a store, looked at the bare shelves and cheap useless crap, walked out and have never gone back. Now I shop at thrift stores and local craft fairs mainly. Or online. Its not like we need any more useless possessions anyhow.

[former9thward]

9. Another victim of the internet and technology.

I am in favor of both but it is costing millions of jobs.

[spin]

16. Sadly true. (n/t)

[randome]

70. True, but also the victim of a decades-long stagnant economy.

More evidence, as if any was needed, that the government needs to better allocate its resources so that people have more disposable income.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[HughBeaumont]

10. Northeast Ohio's malls are like caves.

The ones that are open are 60-70% vacant with about 50 people in them. The only thriving area is the food court. Parmatown is being demolished, Midway is breathing it's last, there's nothing in the once-thriving downtown Galleria, Great Northern is all but dying, and Beachwood Place is only breathing because it's next to Legacy Village.

Weirdly enough, in freezing Northeast Ohio, the outdoor town centers like Westgate, Crocker Park, Steelyard Commons and Legacy Village are doing great.

You go to enclosed malls like Arundle Mills (MD) and Tyson's Corner (VA) and they're both packed like sardines. Once the Silver Line on the DC Metro gets underway this year, going to Tyson's will be easier than ever - no insane traffic to deal with.

[awoke_in_2003]

48. "Parmatown is being demolished"

Oh no- I killed a lot of time during my teens in that mall. I lived in Brook Park.

[HughBeaumont]

103. An update on both places in this subthread . . . tragic:

http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/parmatown_mall.html

http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/severance_town_center.html

[stopbush]

91. I understand the Ashtabula Mall is also dying. They lost most of their anchor stores.

That mall was built in Ashtabula County, just outside Ashtabula's city limits, which meant the city got none of the tax revenues while the existence of the Mall served to kill all of the locally owned businesses in downtown Ashtabula. Typical of what happens in 'Bula.

My old hometown is quickly devolving into Hillbilly Heaven. Haven't been back there since Mom died in 2010, and I have no plans to ever go back there if I can avoid it (I live in SoCal).

When I was growing up in NE Ohio, we used to go the the Severance Mall. They had a record store that carried a lot of classical music. Is that mall still around?

[Neurotica]

116. I used to walk to Severance shopping center with my parents

We lived in Cleveland Heights. There was a bakery at Severance that had the best sugar cookies. I've not been able to find their equal. I'm not sure if the mall is still around. I took my own family back a couple years ago (just drove through my old neighborhood) and the whole area is pretty run down now. Sad.

And I used to go to the Ashtabula mall with my grandparents, who had a farm in Kellogsville (near Conneaut). The only other place they could really go to do major shopping was Erie (or Cleveland).

[a kennedy]

11. I hate to say this......I haven't been to our mall in years.

all on-line shopping for me, or I will go to our downtown area. Can not stand malls, never did.

[GP6971]

59. Same here

About 3 years ago.....bought a pair of shoes. Now I find them online (not Amazon). My closest mall is 17 miles either north or south. Why waste gas when you can purchase it with a couple of clicks......do feel very bad how it affects the local economies. But Here, I've seen a resurgence of small businesses.......a little grocery store opened in our town. I try to support it as much as I can. What I've noticed recently is that the Walmart parking lot I pass by everyday has less and less cars.

[Warpy]

12. We lost one indoor mall in this town

but it was replaced by a chichi outdoor mall across the street. The defunct mall now has Dillard's at each end (one for men's wear and household items, the other for women and children) and nothing in between. It's a shame, really, indoor malls are more pleasant during the hottest part of the desert summer.

Strip malls are the ones that are really in trouble around here. All have vacant stores like a lost tooth in a smile; many have multiple vacant stores.

This is the end game, when the rich have stolen so much out of the economy that the economy starts to collapse. Ours is taking a slow route to dissolution rather than the quick one in the last depression, but it's going to go completely unless Washington finally wakes up and realizes Reaganism was a con job and didn't work and that the folks back home are not going to vote for anyone who is pretending it did.

[Laelth]

23. +1. n/t

-Laelth

[kelliekat44]

15. THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!! That's what the business owners tell me when I asked why they were

closing. Customers are hurting and so business is down but the rents keep going up. Greed of the mall landlords is hurting the economy and neighborhoods where the malls are located. And the large mall chains --Westfield especially-- buy up the strip malls within a 20 mile radius too, increase rents there and have forced at least three strip mall to all but shut down in the surrounding areas. Greed is the culprit. Massive unadulterated greed.

[WinkyDink]

29. Exactly. Exactly. Greed is killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

[MicaelS]

44. My Optometrist's rent in a local mall was raised to $10,000 a month.

She was able to get a custom building built from the ground up with a mortgage payment less than that.

[adirondacker]

66. There's a party for that!

[kelliekat44]

111. Yes, but the political elite just ignored him and anyone like him with really key economic issues.

This was an issue and is an issue that the Dems should have jumped on and small businesses would be worshiping their walking ground. But the paid consultants keep thinking inside the circle, They haven't even noticed the box.

[adirondacker]

112. I give Jimmy a lot of credit for bringing up and forcing the issue during the debate.

He was operating on a shoestring budget and still came out making a statement.
The entertainment value was priceless as well.

I wish the President would have brought up campaign finance reform alongside the income disparity during his SOTU speech. Without it, it's going to only get worse for the bottom half.

[L0oniX]

17. When is democracy like a shopping mall?

[FarCenter]

18. The US has way too much retail space -- these data are from 2011

Per Capita Retail Space Comparison

•US 46.6 square feet
•India 2.0 square feet
•Mexico 1.5 square feet
•UK 23.0 square feet
•Canada 13.0 square feet
•Australia 6.5 square feet

It seems to me stores have a major problem here. The problem is increasing competition for customers who have no job and/or retirees with little need for anything but food and shelter.

Read more at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/11/country-by-country-per-capita-retail.html

[JI7]

19. Sears looks like shit to me, the store seemed better when i was a kid

[FarCenter]

21. Once KMart bought Sears, it was all downhill

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB110068961640976558

It was probably Eddie Lampert's intent to sell off all the real estate, pocket the money and close up shop. Too bad the bottom fell out of the real estate market before he was able to pocket the cash.

[JI7]

27. i forgot about that, but that makes sense, Kmart was shitty also although they

may at one time have been better.

i don't understand why they don't follow the target model where even if you present yourself as offering low prices that the stuff is not crappy and the store a mess. and good deals are only good if the item is good.

[WinkyDink]

31. I beg to differ. Where I live, K-Mart is kept up and Target is a hideous mess of crap items.

[awoke_in_2003]

49. Nah, K Marts were always shit holes. nt

[Aerows]

55. I agree

It's nothing new. They've always been shit holes.

[bluestate10]

60. K Mart isn't a shithole to people that don't have a lot of money.

Low salaries are killing the country in many ways, they force poor people to keep feeding China Inc.

[awoke_in_2003]

65. Perhaps shithole might be a bit strong...

growing up my family was poor, and even then I thought K Marts were a bit dumpy. And I fully agree with what you say about salaries. The powers that be wanted trade relations with China to bring all the workers of the world to the same level. It is too bad that they want it to be to the level of the Chinese worker.

[durablend]

50. *Probably* nothing

That's exactly what he's doing albeit on a smaller (slower) scale than he probably wanted. Stores are being ditched as the leases run out. He's already said they don't intend on running the brick & mortar business long term.

[eallen]

22. Without bookstores and movie theaters, malls lost a lot of their attraction.

Prior to the internet, a mall was the premium one-stop for information, entertainment, and shopping. You could browse the latest magazines of interest, buying the ones you wanted, check out the latest books. Take in a movie, if you had the time. Malls would get a large share of visits from people who bought no piece of clothing or appliance. No matter how unattractive from an architectural perspective, they were a major media outlet of their day.

Now, information and entertainment are all online. Malls just don't cut it for selling clothes and gizmos. Mourn them if you wish, but they're day is as past as the pay phone.

[madamesilverspurs]

25. Ours used to be very popular

with people around the region and from surrounding states. Then it was bought by a company who turned it into a cookie-cutter copy of all their other malls, and it's gone downhill ever since. The original mall had a number of mom-and-pop stores that gave it a unique flavor; they were all forced out by the new owners. Nowadays, our mom-and-pop stores are opening in a re-invigorating downtown and in our neighborhoods, while the mall has become the gathering place for local gangs. Stupid and utterly unnecessary decay.

[WillowTree]

26. If it wasn't for the jobs lost I'd say "Good". There are far too many malls/stores anyway.

There are no less than 6 major malls within a half hour of where I live. And that doesn't include the plethora of mini-malls and strip malls. Too many.

[Vashta Nerada]

28. I'd rather see less malls and more green spaces in cities.

Good riddance, I say.

[JI7]

30. the key to mall success in the future might be Restaurants

they can still offer the food court. but in place of those anchor stores they can put in things like restaurants, bakeries etc.

even things like gourmet food markets . people are into these things these days.

and in southern california at least i think outdoors malls do well. but this would only work for areas with similar weather.

[Tanuki]

32. In Nashville, one of our older malls that had been failing

got a makeover when Vanderbilt University Medical Center took over a major part of it for outpatient clinics and offices. It was a great use of underutilized space, freed up space in the actual medical center inpatient neighborhood, provided lots of existing parking for staff and patients, and revitalized the remaining mall stores and all the stores and restaurants on the periphery. Other communities could fill needs for vocational/technical education, recreation centers, low income or senior housing, etc., by re-purposing failing malls.

[Eleanors38]

89. Austin is in dire need of multi-use arts centers for

The burgeoning arts community: theater, dance, art instruction, practice space, movie production. But most of the old shopping centers are full, and charging ultra-high rent.

[Tanuki]

96. Some towns have utilized defunct mills, churches, industrial buildings, schools, etc.

for arts spaces or other needed purposes. I love the idea of giving existing buildings a new life whenever possible.

[Eleanors38]

113. Austin's bureaus are big, expensive, counter-productive, but slow.

Some malls here have been "taken over" by institutions, but the city has demolished large, paid-for buildings it owns, or turned the real estate over to developers. For all of Austin's "weirdness," it is not very interested in arts promotion. It IS interested in serving bidness & developer interests with huge incentive$.

[texanwitch]

108. Austin has a mall across the freeway from the Grayhound bus station.

I think it is call Highlands Mall.

I remember that mall years ago.

The last time I was there it was so different.

[Eleanors38]

114. The old biz model for the mall had collapsed. The city

should buy at least a portion of the structure, and convert it into a multi-use arts platform.

[texanwitch]

115. It was a nice mall.

Those old malls should have a new life.

Northline mall in Houston was partly turned into a junior college.

[Eleanors38]

117. ACC has facilities at Highland Mall as well.

[texanwitch]

119. Thats great.

Plenty of parking.

It has been a while since I had been there.

[LuvLoogie]

104. Good ideas.

Live music venues might work, too.

[Auggie]

33. America's shopping malls killed a lot of downtowns ...

I'm not exactly sorry to hear this.

[Volaris]

34. we should be encouraging city and county governments to buy the empty buildings,

and convert them into-- City Civic Centers, (excersise and rec, Muni. Courts--they have the space for it)
LOCAL State Extension Offices (Unemployment, Social Services, Etc.)
LOCAL FARMERS' MARKETS (because why the hell not)
State and Community College Extension Campuses
Whatever the hell else we can think to jam in there-- hell, most of them have old Theaters in them, you could use them for Community fine arts performimg centers if you wanted to. The Possibilitits of an already-existant, mulit-purpose building like that are nearly ENDLESS, and I would bet that if they sit vacant for a year or so, they would go cheapcheapcheap.

[AngryAmish]

35. Last week I went to Woodfield Mall outside Chicago

I grew up about 15 miles away but I had not been there in over 30 years.

BTW, only other time there was with my sisters and all their friends to see Rick Springfield at the height of Jessie's Girl mania. I was about 10. Being in a mall with ten thousand screaming girls, I'll never forget. No wonder I got a job the next year, to get away from that crap.

Anyway, it had not changed.

Four anchor tenants: Sears, JC, Nordstrom and Macys. Macys looks like a dollar store. Sears is bankrupt. Didn't go to the others.

Nice indoor playground tho.

[The_Commonist]

36. What is this "mall" that you speak of?

The last time I set foot in mall was back in the 90's.
Whoa... that was like 15 years ago!

[Nye Bevan]

38. I believe that they are places where teens go to "hang out".

I understand they have food courts and sometimes movie theatres.

[Dawson Leery]

39. kick

[1000words]

40. Good Riddance

Make them into parks and community centers.

[adirondacker]

67. +1000. Revitalize the downtowns they destroyed. nt

[Logical]

75. You get amazon.com instead! n-t

[adirondacker]

82. I can hear the drones already.

[zappaman]

41. ...

[Scootaloo]

42. And so does the Great Contraction begin

[mstinamotorcity2]

43. They will just consider

Wal-Mart an anchor store

[Roland99]

45. One nearest us is all but vacant

On the west of Orlando

Closest mall to us now is I-4 and the FL Turnpike (and it's PACKED almost always). Half is very high-end (Tiffany's, Cartier, etc.) while the other half is normal shopping mall stuff (Claire's, Macy's, etc.)

Outlets are always PACKED (both of them...one near Universal, one near Disney).

We have one of those outdoor type "malls" (series of new "strip center type stuff) Anchored by a Super Target, Lowe's. Even have a Barnes and Noble. Place is always jam-packed.

[mike_c]

46. I believe there is only one in my entire county...

...and it is half empty. Several anchor stores have come and gone. Half the smaller retail spaces are either empty, or they rollover every time I go there which, admittedly, isn't often.

[KG]

47. book stores, music stores, arcades - all the reasons I used to go to the mall for are gone.

[randome]

78. Ah, the days when arcades were in the malls...

Rolls of quarters quickly emptied. Proudly blistered thumbs. Berserk! Dig-Dug! Defender!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[ErikJ]

51. Lots of malls levelled and replaced with big box stores these days.

[reformist2]

58. Who would have thought that the end result of capitalist retail was a windowless "Big Box." It's sad

[Nye Bevan]

63. You mean "Big Box" stores like Circuit City and Borders?

I'm pretty sure that "Big Box" stores will not be the "end result" of retail.

[reformist2]

69. Well, the end result of retail will be no stores at all. In a way, that's even sadder.

[Nye Bevan]

71. To survive, retail stores need to learn how to adapt.

Apple Stores, for example, seem to be reasonably successful.

[kpete]

52. they paved paradise...

[Curmudgeoness]

53. I mourn the demise of malls

and cannot figure out why all the shopping centers are going to open air spaces. I have wanted to do my "next winter" shopping for some new winter clothes, and since all the retail areas are now centers where you have to walk outside to get from one store to the other, I am not even tempted to go. I used to be able to get out of the cold/rain/sleet/snow/wind and shop when I got to a mall. Now, I hate shopping unless it is a really nice day. We have about 10 of those days a year.

[SheilaT]

92. I likewise don't get that change.

When the first one like that opened up near me it altered my shopping habits so that I went to that location for a specific store, went inside, bought what I wanted or needed, and left. Never went to other stores to browse and perhaps buy.

As I've gotten older my shopping habits, no doubt like most people's, have changed a lot.

My biggest fear that all shopping will switch to on-line is that I won't really be able to buy clothes any more. Don't know about you, but I absolutely have to try things on to make sure they fit. Especially shoes because of a bunion on my right foot, plus I'm rather of an in-between shoe size, so there is no way I can buy without trying on. But all regular clothes are the same way, as different styles and different manufacturers fit differently. Again, at this stage of my life I don't buy a lot of clothes, but I do want them to fit reasonably well.

[Curmudgeoness]

100. Maybe it is just being older.

I have never bought anything but books online, and that is because a book is a book. No different size, no material that I may not like, or problems with length or width. When I think of how many things that I love go into the fitting rooms, and how many I wouldn't be caught dead in when I try them on, I figure I would have a 20% chance of liking what I buy online, if that. Factor in that I love fabrics that feel nice and shop by touch, and that 20% would probably go to 5% just because I would never have taken many things in to try on. And at this stage in my life, it is harder to find something that fits properly, since my body is no longer shaped properly.

[SheilaT]

109. Fabric! Yarn!

So many things need to be touched before buying.

I buy books online, but I also go to my local bookstore.

[Curmudgeoness]

110. Lost the last local bookstore here years ago.

I never bought a book online before that. Even if I did pay a few bucks more.

[LWolf]

56. I won't miss them.

I haven't shopped at a mall in about 25 years. There was something about the over-priced stores charging over-priced rents, and the "shopping as a recreational hobby" thing that I found so distasteful that I simply stopped going into them at some point. I shopped small local stores that weren't in malls, small stores not in malls in the towns closest to mine, farmer's markets, swap meets (until they became too much like outdoor malls,) garage sales, stores selling used items, and, if I couldn't find it any other way, online. At one point I bought most of my work "uniforms" from a parent working out of her home; I was teaching elementary school. She would come to school with about 5 styles of jumpers, and we would choose fabrics; she would make them and fit them. Depending on the shoes and shirt, we could dress them up or down. I still have a closet full.

I also bought tamales in bulk from a neighbor who made them out of her home, and jewelry made by local people...out of their homes. I've tried to find local producers for whatever I can. I just don't like shopping malls or the shopping mentality that seemed to go with them.

[defacto7]

57. And yet they keep building them and building them...

usually with money from investors who have been told they will be profitable in rents once the stores open which many times never happens. The only profit to be made goes to the brokers, builders, developers and land owners. The investors are usually upper middle class retired people who don't know better and are left with the results. Because of the phenomenon there are too many shopping malls and strip malls; the market is glutted with empty store space. It's an old (usually legal) scam that's been happening for 30 years. This isn't always the case but the glut causes other good profitable malls even very large and unusual ones to fail in the shadow of some new structure that gets the attention. It's just another way the ultra rich get richer on small business investors.

[dembotoz]

61. couple years back we had time to kill between a wedding and reception-went to the local large

area mall.

It hit me that i had not been in a mall-any mall for several years

not only did i survive, i did not miss them.

[Nye Bevan]

64. I remember the days when buying a product meant going to the mall.

I am happy those days are over.

[Agschmid]

62. Over 4 million people work in retail jobs...

Yes they may not be the best jobs but they are employed. I'd hate to see any of these people hurt by this economic change, these are jobs that won't be replaced if they go. Sometimes going to shop at a mall isn't such a bad thing. Heck you could even try to buy American made... It sure seems to be a lot to ask sometimes.



Source: BLS

[kjones]

94. Yeah

I'd be interested in an analysis of supply chain between malls and online shopping.
Which tends to generate more jobs and such.

I mean, when online retail drive off all physical retail, people will complain that
all the distribution centers and jobs are in X state where internet commerce is
most profitable. It's kind of digital outsourcing. What will people be saying when
all the jobs start turning into delivery jobs?

Maybe I'm being a little dramatic, I guess people have to make the stuff.

You know, I'd also be curious as to the environmental impact of physical retail
vs internet retail.
I mean, sure, physical retail requires more buildings, still requires distribution, and
requires people to travel to decentralized stores. On the other hand, internet retail
relies on, what I imagine, is much less efficient delivery. I assume it is more efficient
ship lots of goods (what, 30 tons on semis) vs shipping small collections of orders in
delivery trucks. It would be interesting to look at.

[FarCenter]

97. You have to account for the impact of consumer trips to physical retail locations

It's a significant part of total miles driven.

OTOH, the delivery services use small diesel trucks and vans and they have lots of computers that route them most efficiently. The computers even generate routes that avoid left hand turns.

[kjones]

99. Yeah, I mentioned that.

Though you said it a lot better.
Honestly though, probably wouldn't be that big a deal if America (or a lot more of it)
had anything above sub par public transit systems. Separate issue though (or maybe not).


And I didn't know that, or well, I was only vaguely aware of the computers thing.
Guess the company starts to care when they're paying for fuel for however many
trucks they have.

[ucrdem]

72. On the other hand, mail order is making a comeback. Ditto the P.O.

The story last year was that the US post office out-performed UPS and DHL by miles. So the names have changed and the ginormous catalogs are gone but maybe Amazon will start buying up vacant Sears and other empty big boxes to turn into drone ports or maybe even retail outlets. . .

[polly7]

74. I hate what WalMart has done to so many of our malls here.

They build on the end of one or buy the Safeway or whatever large store drew many people to the mall, block access off completely from the rest of the mall, then close their store in a few years to build a new superstore down the road. Meanwhile, the old one sits empty and the smaller stores that lined the mall and at one time were doing very well close one by one.

[randome]

77. No fan of Walmart but if Trader Joe's and Costco can compete, why can't everyone else?

Trader Joe's prices are usually cheaper than even Walmart. And they seem to be doing just fine.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[polly7]

79. I'm talking about the smaller specialty stores that line both sides of the mall

and no longer draw people in d/t the one large store - and main attraction - being closed off, then shut down and empty.

[randome]

87. I get you. I wonder if Trader Joe's is ever in a mall situation.

Maybe not or maybe they only have a minor presence in some malls in some cities. I think they have 'managed growth' instead of Walmart's 'GROW! GROW! GROW!' philosophy.

Maybe, like the dinosaurs, Walmart will get too big to survive a changing environment.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[polly7]

88. You know, it's really sad ...

all of those smaller stores caught in this mall closing situation were once downtown, and forced to move out to the mall because of the main attraction in the mall - Woolworths (at one time), WalMart, etc. eliminating the need for people to drive and go from business to business. I'm talking about the small cities near me, ... now, downtown is mainly banking, insurance, etc. and boring! It's better in the bigger cities, but for places like Estevan and Weyburn, for example .... shopping is becoming more and more limited to WalMart superstores. I hate them.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

80. If the new minimum wage is actually passed,

and this continues, look for stories about how raising the minimum wage killed the mall. Count on it.

[reformist2]

84. No matter. I can't wait for all the roller skating rinks to take over!

[jollyreaper2112]

95. Junk is the problem, I agree

There's nothing wrong with the idea of a mall but the American execution of the concept is impractical. I like having all the vendors I need in one place so I can get things in one trip. But there's nothing I need at the mall. The only stores I shop at are for groceries. Everything else I get from amazon. When I used to go to the mall it would be for electronics and books. Both of those have gone digital distribution these days.

Part of the problem is the overhead. There's a lot of money tied up in infrastructure in a big mall. Compare that with more ramshackle shopping areas like the farmer's market in LA. It's all open air.

Most mall stores are fashionable by which I mean the majority of a product's value is intangible bullshit. We can't afford to pay for fashion these days.

I like the idea of smaller neighborhood markets with more mixed products. I also like the idea of getting more public transport so we can reclaim all the fucking parking lots we've spammed all over the place.

[Brainstormy]

101. Never go. Not surprised. nt

[Raine]

102. A mall near me was first used for filming movies and TV shows then eventually most of it was

torn down. Then built a market, fast food etc in it's place.

[matt819]

106. What about low cost housing?

Granted, these empty properties are privately held, and the owners of course hold out hope that they can get a return on their investments. But, let's face it, some of these malls are not "coming back." Really, does anyone envision a new company entering the big box market any time soon?

What about turning these properties into low cost housing. It's easy to identify all the reasons not to do this, many very valid. For example, many of these are located in suburban areas with limited access to public transportation. But surely some sort of creative private/public partnership can actually turn these into something useful. Is it better that they sit vacant?

[bhcodem]

107. I hate little strip malls with 3 or 4 stores.

I think that developers and fossil fuel producers have determined to make us get in our cars and drive from little strip mall to little strip mall instead of just going to one larger mall that has it all in order to make us use more fuel!

[blue neen]

118. Random shootings.

I know it's not just at malls, but it's got to be in the back of shoppers' minds.

Oh well, at least the NRA is happy.