Breaking the cycle of school shootings

[SecularMotion]

Last edited Mon Feb 3, 2014, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)

When the detective arrived at my home, he had a folder in his hand. “We just have some paperwork to take care of first,” he said. After I signed his forms, he gave me a box with the clothes my mother was wearing when she was murdered. It had been almost a year, but I needed to touch them, to know how many times she was shot, to see where she had been hurt.

My mom, Dawn Hochsprung, was the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Recently, I told a woman that my mother had passed away just over a year ago. I was trying to be polite, but I instantly felt disgusted with myself for using the term “passed away.” My mother was shot to death through no fault of her own. That is not “passing away.” She was killed, gunned down in what I would normally have called her haven — her school.

There have been at least 39 school shootings since the massacre in Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 14, 2012. Already this year there have been 10 school shootings, including one Thursday at Eastern Florida State College . Sadly, Americans seem to be getting used to seeing our nation’s youth, parents and educators gather outside schools, waiting to hear if their loved ones are safe.

This past December, the holiday season felt wrong. There was an empty place at our table, and traditions didn’t seem to matter anymore. My daughter was not yet 6 months old when my mother was killed. I tuck her into bed each night with a stuffed doll that was the first and only Christmas gift she’ll ever get from her grandmother. The doll is a nightly reminder that my daughter will never know my mother.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/breaking-the-cycle-of-school-shootings/2014/01/30/0eaffa70-853a-11e3-bbe5-6a2a3141e3a9_story.html?tid=hpModule_6c539b02-b270-11e2-bbf2-a6f9e9d79e19

[no_hypocrisy]

1. LINK

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/breaking-the-cycle-of-school-shootings/2014/01/30/0eaffa70-853a-11e3-bbe5-6a2a3141e3a9_story.html?tid=hpModule_6c539b02-b270-11e2-bbf2-a6f9e9d79e19

[SecularMotion]

2. Thank you, I fixed the link in the OP.

[ManiacJoe]

3. Well, the op-ed's title was poorly chosen.

Sadly, it showed promise.

[SecularMotion]

4. Are you my new follower?

[ManiacJoe]

5. No, just chose to read the article you cross-posted.

[NYC_SKP]

6. Shirley, you've read the SOP for GD. Either way, your post is typical, well, it's typical.

So sad, all these shootings, it's like a strange new lawless gun-laden hell!



Well, school shooting now include universities, apparently.

And, all the coverage notwithstanding, shootings, mass shootings, firearms related crimes, all ARE ON THE DECLINE.

But let's not let facts interfere with setting other people's hair on fire for no actual purpose other than to push an agenda.

Keep rollin...

[SecularMotion]

8. If you have a problem with the OP, please use alert and don't be disruptive.

And a university is a school

A school is an institution designed for the teaching of students (or "pupils&quot under the direction of teachers. Most countries have systems of formal education, which is commonly compulsory.[citation needed] In these systems, students progress through a series of schools. The names for these schools vary by country (discussed in the Regional section below) but generally include primary school for young children and secondary school for teenagers who have completed primary education. An institution where higher education is taught, is commonly called a university college or university.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School

By the way, your eyerolls and bad taste in music don't help your case.

[NYC_SKP]

9. Oh, I guess I've been served.

Bad taste in music. I wonder what part of the artist most offends you.

It's very telling that you don't like a full figured black female artist.

Actually, no, I don't give a shit of your opinions. I just wish you'd keep your anti-gun bullshit in the gun forums.

But I do like promoting good artists and good artistic creations.

If you don't like Nicki Minaj, you will utterly HATE Sylvester...

[SecularMotion]

10. It's so sad

that you label the opinion of a woman who lost her mother in the Newtown massacre as "anti-gun bullshit."

The total lack of compassion and empathy among gunners for victims of gun violence is disgusting.

[Hoyt]

51. That callousness is a major reason I find gun fanciers a serious concern.

[pintobean]

11. Disruptive?

Constantly violating the SOP of this forum is disruptive.

[SecularMotion]

12. It's only a violation in your opinion.

Your tireless alerting and votes against my OPs have garnered very few locks.

[ManiacJoe]

13. It is definitely a violation of the SOP.

The hosts just choose to let it slide in most cases.

[SecularMotion]

15. If you don't feel the hosts are doing their jobs properly,

you should take it up with the admins.

[ManiacJoe]

16. I would if I cared that much.

However, Skinner is aware of the situation.

[etherealtruth]

17. Whatever station Diane Sawyer is on , on the evening news ...

... is discussing America's gun crisis and the tide of dead and or injured children and adolescents.

It is being discussed on the evening news, yet you suggest we can not discuss gun violence in the US on DU ...?

[ManiacJoe]

19. No, the suggestion is to discuss it in the appropriate forum, which by definition is not GD.

But then you knew that already.

[etherealtruth]

21. I thought Skinner was clear about "guns in the news"

.... and our ability to discuss it in GD (the appropriate forum), the ability to engage in a conversation the rest of the population is engaging in. A series on the national evening news is certainly meant to provoke conversation ...on a national level ... your suggestion is that it is inappropriate to discuss something designed to ignite conversation is unfortunate .

[ManiacJoe]

24. Lucky for me that I made no such suggestion then.

Skinner was clear. The "in the news" part does seem to get stretched/bent/tied-in-knots at times.

[etherealtruth]

26. Segments on the evening national news, daily for a week, is surely not twisting or bending anything

[ManiacJoe]

27. Things have been stretched/bent enough to now cover that.

[pintobean]

14. Don't take it personally.

I alert on posts that are SOP violations, not members. Maybe you only notice who alerts when it's your post. I'm not a host, so I don't have access to that group, much less a vote.

GD shouldn't have to put up with all these gun threads just because the gun control group is a dud.

[CreekDog]

39. i didn't realize reading about gun tragedies was wasting your time

nobody forces you to read DU.

[Paladin]

45. The pro-gun group (Gun Control & RKBA) is a shadow of what it used to be, as well.

But you knew that already, didn't you?

[pintobean]

46. No, I didn't.

Why would you assume that?

[CreekDog]

60. too busy alerting to know

[Skip Intro]

18. +100. n/t

[kcr]

23. Universities aren't schools?

Interesting definition you have.

I haven't forgotten the time after Sandy Hook on DU.

[etherealtruth]

32. Apparently not

I also learned down thread that one can dismiss the murder of a Michigan State University student (and the non-fatal wounding of another) by discussing an off campus shooting related to another university located in the State of Michigan.

[CreekDog]

38. I don't think it's inappropriate.

and I have a vote on this.

[Skip Intro]

50. There's a surprise. SOP of GD...no talk about guns.

Except in the case of breaking BIG news.

As a host now (wow, just wow) you don't feel a need to uphold the SOP?

How does that work?

[CreekDog]

52. Yes I'm following the current admin direction regarding gun issues in GD

it's not as limited as you say.

try to keep up with this.

[Skip Intro]

58. The SOP of this forum, that you now help host, reads:

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.

That is the written SOP. Now. Still.

Will you uphold the SOP, or won't you?

[CreekDog]

59. have you read the posts in ATA by Skinner on the matter?

yes or no?

[valerief]

7. How come we never hear of executives bursting into boardrooms and mowing people down?

I'm sure there are plenty of sociopathic, unbalanced execs with guns.

How are they different from the people doing the murdering?

[calimary]

29. Dang - that's a good question, valerief!

Made me stop and think. Indeed - how are they different? I'd like to hear what others here have to say about it. The odd fact appears to be that the statement in your title is true. Or is it that such a thing does happen frequently but doesn't get reported? You have me really kicking this one around in my head a lot at the moment. How are they different? What about them makes them different like that? If we could understand that better, maybe we could come up with other ideas - for ways to deal with the people doing the murdering.

[SoCalDem]

34. What makes rich people "different" is that they usually have many viable options

to handle their difficulties. True, some will kill someone (usually a family member) , but it will rarely be a random thing.

If one is wealthy, a job loss will usually not send them into a downward spiral that sends them into a retaliatory rage (guns included)

Wealthy kids often go to private schools that probably have very strict rules, smaller classes and a real determination to keep their charges safe..

Wealthy folks often avail themselves of psychological services.

Money can be very comforting to those who may feel slighted...they have the means/opportunity to remove themselves from the people who irritate them

[valerief]

41. Everything you say makes sense. The difference is the execs have money that

buys protection in different ways. The 99% have no such safety nets.

[calimary]

42. Agreed. SoCalDem makes some very good points.

The rich have options. Money can buy options and lots of wiggle-room. Private counseling, private schools, private tutors, more than one home at a time (you don't have a lot of spousal knock-down/drag-out fights when there's the house in the Hamptons and the loft in midtown Manhattan, or the house in the city and the cabin out at the lake-resort - that allow Mom and Dad their separate quarters to cool off rather than beating up on each other).

And of course what we simply HAVE TO do is go for that wonderful austerity and get rid of that dumb ol' safety net that just costs more tax money! And after all, NOBODY wants to pay taxes...

[valerief]

43. Plus you won't find the very rich at middle America malls! nt

[calimary]

44. And even the Pope has now weighed in, further.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014718224#post4

Mighty encouraging to see a Pope actually doing what a Pope is supposed to do: advocate for Christ's message. And Christ's message was mainly about the poor - at least from everything I learned in 14 years at Catholic school.

Man - ask a question and none other than the Pope himself sends an answer...

[Skip Intro]

20. The anti-RKBA crowd continues to twist facts to deceive. Some facts:

The "school" shooting at Eastern Florida State College involved one student who was attacked by two non-students and fought back. The school has invited him back to class.

The "school" shooting near South Carolina State was gang-related.

And nothing short of banning guns and ammo entirely, with some kind of complete (impossible) confiscation, would have prevented Newtown, no matter how ceaselessly the anti-2A minority try to pimp that tragedy.

[etherealtruth]

22. What about the school shooting at the Michigan State University neighborhood Friday night?

The shooter remains at large.

[Skip Intro]

25. Wrong and wrong. That "school shooting" happened off-campus.

How do you call a shooting that happened off-campus a "school shooting?" Aren't all shootings then "school shootings?"

The perp has been arrested.


BIG RAPIDS, Mich. — Michigan authorities have charged a 20-year-old man with shooting a Ferris State University student at his off-campus apartment.

DeCory D. Downing is charged with attempted murder and having a firearm in a felony, Ferris State University Public Safety Director Bruce Borkovich said Sunday.

Police made the arrest late Saturday at an on-campus apartment, school spokesman Sandy Gholston said. He said police also were questioning a woman. The victim's injuries aren't life-threatening.

...

"Early indications are that it may have just been an argument that went bad," he said.
Downing is from Macomb County in suburban Detroit, isn't a student at Ferris State and has an "extensive criminal record," Borkovich told MLive.com. He was being held in the Mecosta County Jail and was expected to be arraigned Monday in district court.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-charged-with-attempted-murder-of-michigan-college-student/

[etherealtruth]

28. Off campus ... is across one street

... and next to a major university residential neighborhood (Mason and Abbot Halls). Cedar Village is occupied exclusively by university students ... the two 20 year olds were students ... the shooter ran off through the university (again across one street).

The story you are citing is regarding an off campus shooting at Ferris State (about 200 miles north of MSU which is located in East Lansing). One of the people shot died of his injuries. The shooter remains at large

Perhaps you may want to reconsider your smug wrong and wrong

[Skip Intro]

31. There were two shootings, both off-campus.

The perp in one has been caught. The perp in the other appears to be at large. If I mistook one incident for the other, all apologies, but it doesn't change the fact that the anti-2A crowd regularly employs deception and half-truths. A shooting at an off-campus residence is not a "school shooting."

Smug, btw, is lacing together unrelated incidents, twisting the facts of those incidents to make them fit, and using that ball of bs as proof of a manufactured conclusion. Smug is using a tragedy like Newtown to push a flawed agenda. What have you got when your argument is made on deception?

[etherealtruth]

33. my argument is based on the fact that two MSU students were shot

... one murdered, at a popular student housing complex adjacent to MSUs campus. The Cedar Village apartments are not even separated by a major thoroughfare, it is a university street ... the shooter (read a person with a gun) ran across the street into the university where he disappeared.

a twenty year old is dead ... a campus feels terrorized by the shooting. The students were put on alert (sadly it took MSU two hours to get it together to alert the students en masse). The MSU students are angry and distraught. No twisting of facts was necessary.

[BainsBane]

30. Fascinating how some are zealously committed to making sure DUers

are exposed to absolutely no information about gun violence.

[ManiacJoe]

35. You, and they, are welcome to visit either of the two gun forums any time.

[BainsBane]

36. Actually, I'm not welcome

I'm not welcome at all. That point has been made communicated explicitly. Even in GD I'm ridiculed for posting a view and told I should stay in my place.

[onehandle]

37. All worth the peniscentric fetishism that is gun nuttery.

Children are lesser people because they can't bear arms.

[badtoworse]

47. What took you so long?

[Packerowner740]

40. How?

[BrotherIvan]

48. This thread is exactly what pisses me off about pro-gunners

Here is a woman talking about losing her beloved mother, of a little girl who will never know her grandmother. Because that grandmother was gunned down by a maniac wielding military-style weapons and too much ammunition. That woman was the principal of an elementary school where children were slaughtered and teachers were killed whilst trying to shield their students in vain.

And all these fuckers can think of is "MY GUNZ." Not one gunner on this thread is talking about the story posted. Not one gunner on here is doing anything but thinking about himself and his precious guns. I dissembling with the rulz. So self-centered, so fucking disgusting. Where is the humanity? The basic empathy? Now do you know why people fight so hard against you?

[Skip Intro]

49. This is what pisses me off about "anti-gunners."

You're entire post is built on the lie that gun owners (many of them DEMOCRATS), and others who support the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution and support RKBA in concept and practice, and understand the guarantees of freedom inherit there, are heartless bastards who don't care about this poor mother or those poor kids.

It is an insincere and intellectually laughable argument that if a person supports and cherishes his/her rights to bear arms, he/she is evil and heartless and standing in the way of just making all homicide by firearms disappear.

What bullshit.

Where is your humanity when the deaths of children, and their surviving family members are used by the powers that be as stage props to push a vauge but urgent agenda to force new gun-restrictions upon us, none of which would have prevented the damn fucking tragedy they use as a logo?

Sheesh, it makes me want to vomit.

[CreekDog]

53. earlier you were saying we wanted to ban all guns, it seems now you're backing off on that claim

which is the false post, this one, or the one before?

[Hoyt]

54. Such anger doesn't mix well with gunz.

[Skip Intro]

55. anger and repulsion are two different things, Hoyt

but don't worry, I wasn't expecting anything like sincerity or an honest discussion from you...

[Hoyt]

56. Sure sounded like something that doesn't mix with gunz close by.

[defacto7]

57. ^ this ^

It couldn't have been stated better. It's a prefect example of thread disruption no matter what a person's position on the subject.