Rockefeller Group, NJ Transit agreed to build new rail station but left Hoboken mayor in the dark

[highplainsdem]

From NJ.com this morning, "Rockefeller Group, NJ Transit agreed to build new light rail station but left Hoboken mayor in the dark, report says":

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2014/02/post_468.html

HOBOKEN — NJ Transit and the developer at the center of allegations against Gov. Chris Christie reportedly agreed to build a new light rail station in the city —without involving the Hoboken mayor.

The Rockefeller Group struck a "memorandum of understanding" with NJ Transit last year to build a new light rail station near its property in the northern section of the city, The New York Times reported on Thursday. Hoboken Mayor Dawn Zimmer didn't know about the agreement, city spokesman Juan Melli told NJ.com. The city has filed an Open Public Records Act request to obtain the agreement, Melli said. (NJ.com has also filed a public records request to obtain the document.)

Calls and emails to the Rockefeller Group were not returned. A spokesman for NJ Trasit, William Smith, refused to comment on the proposed light rail station.

The station is reportedly part of the developer's controversial plans for underdeveloped land in northern Hoboken. The Rockefeller Group proposed building a 40-story office tower in the area, a project that is at the center of allegations that Christie's administration withheld Hurricane Sandy relief funds to promote the development. Zimmer accused Christie last month of threatening to hold back relief money if she didn't back the Rockefeller Group's project. The U.S. Attorney's Office subpoenaed Hoboken last week in connection to Zimmer's allegations.

-snip-

[Beacool]

1. This thing is starting to have more plot twists than a soap opera.

On the other hand, as a resident of Hoboken, I wouldn't mind a light rail station in that part of town. What makes one go is why didn't they tell the city of their plans.

[hollysmom]

2. Oh that is easy, they want a new Mayor who is a crook they can work with.

[Beacool]

6. Yeah, they want a more "developer friendly" mayor.

And they would have gotten one too if the previous mayor hadn't managed to get himself arrested, for taking a developer's bribe, less than a month after he took office (that's a record even for NJ).

[bettyellen]

14. there are 3-4 bus lines already that go right into the tunnel to NYC or downtown to the PATH-

so, I don't think people there are desperate for it. At any rate, it's a heavily traveled area- they need real traffic impact studies done.
And this developer was hoping to get away with none. Sounds like they were banking on Zimmer losing.

[hollysmom]

17. I thought the light rail does not go in NYC, but up along the river on the NJ side. They do stop

at the ferries, but they also connect you to other towns.

[bettyellen]

19. The light rail mostly funnels people to the PATH, or from surrounding towns in Jersey City / Bayonne

nd Weehawken to Hoboken or vice versa. This would save ONLY those commuters a 7-8 block walk to the existing light rail.

But commuters going to the other side on Hoboken, to PATH or NJ Transit (network serving most of the state) trains - and much of Jersey City are already very well served by bus lines. And it's a very straight shoot into NYC with 4-5 different bus lines going straight into Port Authority in 10 minutes.

My guess is, the train helps "sell" the skyscraper. But yeah, you couls walk 6-7 blocks in either direction and pick up light rail already.
The light rail was built to help people commute inside the state from town to town where there was only direct service in to NYC, as well as funnel more to the PATH. But it's damned easy to get from the PATH from there already.

[factsarenotfair]

3. I wonder if there's a connection with NJ Transit rolling stock left to flood near Hoboken during

Sandy.

NJ Transit trains remained in Kearny yards during Sandy even though plan called for moving equipment

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/08/post_361.html

[Laxman]

4. No Need To Involve The Mayor...

we have this all under control! Be quiet Ms. Zimmer and let the big boys sort through our business.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

5. I often did construction projects and I never once spoke to any mayor. nt

[Beacool]

7. Maybe so, but the town would have been informed of the project, wouldn't it?

I don't think that you just build a train station in some town and not alert the town. Wouldn't their city council have to approve the project?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

10. Well, I don't know, you would think. And the more I try to answer this in a way that leaves

the mayor out, and the more the cobwebs from having just waken up a few minutes ago clear from my head, the more I realize at least the council should have been involved.

I wanted to say a train station, which is probably more like a platform (I haven't looked deeper), is not a particular large project. But it is in the easement of a railroad and that has to have some complications associated with getting permits.

Now that I'm thinking more clearly, I'd like to know how they did it. Maybe the answer is simple enough: they are the Rockefeller Group.

[Laxman]

11. Now THAT Is A Good Answer! n/t

[Beacool]

20. Well, they haven't built it yet.

Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2014, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

What seems weird is that NJ Transit would make plans with a developer without first talking to the city.

The Hudson-Bergen Light Rail is a fairly new addition (2002). There are four lines that go through Hoboken. Two end up at the Hoboken Terminal (it's one of the busiest in the region, as thousands of people use it to commute to NYC). The other two lines are newer additions and go to the back of Hoboken. The city has a geographical border, ending where a cliff starts (the cliff above Hoboken is part of Jersey City and the area is called Jersey City Heights). They added two stations to that part of town, one of them has an elevator tower that goes up to Jersey City Heights. The Northern end of town does not have a station. That's where the Rockefeller Group bought property.

[bettyellen]

24. there is already a light rail blocks away, 17th street by the river, also 9th on the West side...

The 17th street is technically in Weehawken, but it's 3-4 min walk away.
This was to help SELL and PROFIT the new skyscraper. Busses already serve this area very well.

[Beacool]

25. Do you mean Lincoln Harbor?

They would probably point out that the station is not in Hoboken. Of course what they only care about is making a profit and the station would be a great attraction. I wonder what they offered NJ Transit in exchange for building another station back there.

[bettyellen]

28. People are ignoring it, but this property is between 14-16, and the stop is 17th st....Weehawken or

not, it's right there! I wonder what the proposed rerouting is- how could it not mess up tunnel traffic even worse up there?
They love packaging these things with transportation opportunities, but this is overkill.
Interesting how Rockefeller was acting as if they were going to get to do whatever they wanted. And how much did they put in Beth Mason's war chest?

[Beacool]

29. Hmmm, Beth Mason.

She's never liked Zimmer.

[bettyellen]

30. I knew her a little bit long ago- before she got corrupted.

She didn't used to be all about $$$, but she is now.

[Beacool]

31. I don't know her at all.

[bettyellen]

32. she had a party at her house on Hudson Street, and had a footman go around and hand out invites

and she invited everyone who owned the entire house on their own, and ignored those neighbors who lived in mere apartments. LOL.
she offended a lot of people who used to like her!

she used to be a "reformer" and at some point got bought out by the corrupt side, the side that wants to sell out to whatever developer comes along, and get a cut. No idea when she switched over, probably not long after she got on the city council.
She has changed a lot in the last 20 years, and not for the better.

[Beacool]

33. Seriously????

What a jerk!!!

[bettyellen]

34. And 20 years ago she seemed like a sweetheart, and helped me out translating some flyers for a

campaign to stop a huge PA development.... You know Pier A park was going to be given over to the PA for 99 years to build a 38 story building? Mayor Russo tried to sell it to them for 7 million, and they would have paid no taxes. We had two referendums on it.

[Beacool]

35. Russo was a crook.

He deserved his years in jail, but I didn't know about that deal. I'm glad that it didn't go through.

[bettyellen]

36. yeah, i registered hundreds of voters and they got someone to throw out lots of registrations....

only ones that were registered by me and a few other volunteers. we knew that they did this, so we drove dozens of voters to the courthouse in Jersey City to get court orders allowing them to vote. it was a close margin, but we won! We had Yo La Tengo play at a benefit at the Shannon Lounge.
Russo's win was a very sad day for Hoboken. What a sleaze bag. Worse than you could ever know.

[Beacool]

37. I was young and one mayor seemed just like another to me.

Now I know better.

[bettyellen]

38. Oh lord no. All those huge dorm like buildings built- he and wife got a big cut.

him illegally and she through RE money. Those two got a piece of everything.

Best Russo story- his own son took a bat to his head in the middle of Washington St- near the Daily News shop.... because he was screwing his son's girlfriend. He had a bandaged head for a few days and basically everyone in town knew why.

[Beacool]

40. Wow, I seemed to have missed all the fun.

I didn't know that story.

[okaawhatever]

39. Do you think these plans have anything to do with Christie cancelling the ARC tunnel? It seems like

there's a big picture we're not seeing between Christie, Rockefeller Group and some other unknown developer types and since it's been determined that Christie wasn't telling the truth about the cost of the project to NJ residents, I'm wondering if it was because the Rockefeller group had several projects on the board and ARC interfered with it. Just a thought.

[Beacool]

41. I don't know. I never thought about it.

It's something to ponder.

[okaawhatever]

42. Steve Kornacki did two really great pieces about cancelling the ARC project and the politics

of the port authority. Don't know if you're interested but if you have the time it's mostly details(not a lot of banter or opinion) and a very interesting look into Christie's behavior. His stopping that project was a big move. That he did it and gave bad info as the reason is pretty scary.

http://www.msnbc.com/up-with-steve-kornacki


<iframe src='http://player.theplatform.com/p/2E2eJC/EmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_up_6tunnel_140126' height='500' width='635' scrolling='no' border='no' ></iframe>

[Laxman]

43. The ARC Tunnel...

actually the ARC series of projects was a badly conceived concept that at the same time is badly needed. The dead end tunnel underneath Penn Station was a compromise solution after they couldn't get the Bush administration to coordinate Amtrak, NY & NJ on a through tunnel that would provide redundancy and increased capacity on the entire NE Corridor.

Christie wanted that money to divert to the Transportation Trust Fund and plug a budget gap so he could look good. He exploited the faults in the project to defund it and re-purpose the money. The replacement Gateway Tunnel is a better project, but Christie didn't even look at it. It is a generational failing as the capacity needs to be increased badly. But there is no long term planning in this administration. other than how to get Christie to the White House. Now an entire decade or more will go by without this critical infrastructure need being addressed.

[Laxman]

8. Were You Planning A Major Redevelopment....

project or a new transit station? Sorry, but projects like that do not get done without involving the local governing body.

[Bandit]

9. How did you get the Building Permits necessary?

City Government has to be informed of any development within it's municipality. I don't know of any city that allows construction work without permits..

[ChisolmTrailDem]

12. I got permits, just didn't need to speak to mayor or city council to get them. But then

I wasn't building train platforms/stations on the easement of a railroad.

[Bandit]

13. All permits are discussed in city council meetings and either approved or disapproved

You personally may not have spoken to the mayor but the mayor certainly was aware of your project.

[bettyellen]

21. And Hoboken, being so small- has committed to rehabbing /redeveloping according to plans

exactly because over the years we have had huge schemes proposed by greedy developers and all need rezoning approval.
So the city want to plan it. It's the last big parcel left in town- 16 blocks, and they don't want half the landowners screwed by letting some overdo it.

[Drew Richards]

26. I doubt you did them in an eastern coastal state where development project procedures are more

Inclusive...but I could be wrong.

[KamaAina]

15. A 40-story building in Hoboken?!

For those of you just joining us, Hoboken is a small city, known locally as the "Mile Square City". Yes, it's convenient to Manhattan (directly across the Hudson from Greenwich Village), but it is not, nor does it want to be, Manhattan West. Hell, it isn't even Jersey City or Newark. A 40-story building there is completely inappropriate.

[Beacool]

22. This........

[bettyellen]

16. Also the PA FUNDED a study for Samson's client the (RGroup) recommending a designation costing Hob

Hoboken 30 years of TAX ABATEMENTS on this development and give the city the right to use "eminent domain" and force the selling of other adjacent property there. With no plans revealed except for the skyscraper. So they could do whatever they wanted. They weren't planning on Zimmer's reelection in November.

Or for the city council to vote to designate it "rehabilitation" instead of "redevelopment"- which gives only 5 years of tax abatements, and does not allow for the use of eminent domain.

They were hoping for a hostile take over on a large section of Hoboken.

[Laxman]

18. Now The Pieces....

are all starting to fit together, aren't they!

[bettyellen]

23. If you knew how much street money there is on election day, you would know it's not

that hard to wrestle control of it all in one election. Happened with Mayor Russo, who pproved a spate of development and had his family and friend pocket all the money. He was in and out of jail before Mayor Cammarano went to jail. I think he would have went with this plan, he was pretty corrupt. Hoboken lucked out he was busted.

[Cha]

45. Tell me about it! Not sure why

they didn't let Mayor Zimmer know? Remember that statement from Rockefeller group that said they knew nothing about the allegations against Lt Gov Kim Guadagno but it would be "deplorable" if true?

At least I think that's how I remember it. They were definitely innocent bystanders. I think I'm losing track of all the mazes and labyrinths of this mountainous NJ political corruption scandal! Help!

[liberal N proud]

27. The unraveling of Jersey

All because Christie couldn't control his temper. Now all sorts of things will be exposed.

[Cha]

44. Why didn't they tell the Mayor of Hoboken?

thanks highplainsdem