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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSmug creationists hold up signs mocking science.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio?bftw
Try not to get too angry. We're in trouble.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)1. She used "their" instead of "there".
2. The Earth rotates and that's what causes sunsets (overly simplified explanation).
The stupid. It burns.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)The Bible says that the sun rises. All this talk about the earth rotating is heresy! It is the sun rising, not the earth rotating. Stop trying to deny the literal word of God! And get back to stoning adulterers.
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)I should be stoned.
TygrBright
(20,755 posts)At least half of the ones I skimmed are so ludicrous they have to be parodies.
slyly,
Bright
nt.
Captain Stern
(2,199 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)they use to "disprove" evolution. Basically they fail at grade school level science.
Skittles
(153,113 posts)you really should be careful in underestimating just how stupid conservatives can be
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)are learning about creationism. It's crazy time kids, get out your notebooks and we'll
teach you crap that will leave you dumber than you can even imagine.
Teaching creationism is widespread in U.S. public schools
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/teaching-creationism-is-widespread-in-u-s-public-schools/
Maeve
(42,271 posts)Observation, repeatability--these are the hallmarks of scientific investigation. And her idea of "theory" is totally..unscientific.
Oh, and y'all totally misunderstand both thermodynamics AND evolution. Read a different book.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)"If THESE people are 'made in God's image,' then God is a paste-eating dumbfuck."
3catwoman3
(23,950 posts)...has a way with words.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Your friend is awesome.
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)Now my stomach really hurts.
MattBaggins
(7,897 posts)Science is not observable or testable?
Hey second law moron, Hows about that big ole ball of fire in the sky?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)(Idiots)
1. yes
2. no
3. yes
4. it explains why intellectual ability overall is decreasing
5. science
6. they don't
7. wtf does that have to do with anything
8. by doing things and being a person and wtf word salad
9. yes. isn't that incredible?
10. if there is no atmosphere, there is no sound. god spoke english?
11. the earth is not a closed system but exists in a greater galaxy or do you think stars are paint on the black ceiling of the sky?
12. do you have a transport machine? neat
13. yes, it can, if the animal survives long enough to pass on their genes
14. if gravity is a theory, why is it taught as fact
15. severely confused as to what "science" is. buy a dictionary
16. genes don't "increase" but combine in different ways. why do you have blonde hair, if you do, yet I have red?
17. focus not on your purpose for being here but instead work on being here with a purpose
18. oooo, look! many trees in my yard! are you the only person in the world?
19. trying to hijack a word to limit it's meaning? oh. how can you drop a rock and expect it to fall without "faith". idiot
20. things happen. that is amazing. ever trip and bump your knee with no one else around? eyeroll
21. what exploding star? try a remedial physics class. fool
22. ouch, my head. if we started as single cell organisms, why are there still single cell organisms except to raise children like you?
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)You have red hair?
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)louis-t
(23,273 posts)Illogical talking points about there only being 'one'. What is their point?
No, seriously, it's the same effect at work: their trusted sources (creationists evangelizers like Hamm) use some items (one of which is Lucy) as examples of "contradictions" or "holes" in evolution, and it turns up in every pamphlet, homeschool text, and other "educational materials" put out for the evangelical market. And so the consumers of those materials (parents homeschooling their kids, students and teachers at evangelical Sunday schools, etc.) believe they "know the real deal" and trot them out like zingers, when it really shows just how isolated and ignorant they are.
louis-t
(23,273 posts)It doesn't prove or disprove anything. I know they say "AHA!" and point to it, but it does nothing for their argument. Even the smartest evangelical is just afraid to challenge their own "evidence".
jmowreader
(50,529 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)BadgerKid
(4,549 posts)ck4829
(35,038 posts)Where exactly is there a closed system?
There are no lifeforms that are closed systems.
There are no ecosystems that are closed systems.
When the species is propagated, that's not a closed system
So where has this happened, Biodome?
It is a direct connection between a Republican's anus and their mouth! I think the entire thing runs on some kind of gas.
It would explain their total disconnect from reality!
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)And what is it with the 2nd law of thermodynamics? That simply says that the universe AS A WHOLE moves toward entropy. But along the way, circumstances arise where things do get more organized. The fact that the earth is spinning slightly slower every day doesn't prevent us from having days and nights, which in turn cause all sorts of other organized reactions. Likewise, the fact that the earth's orbit around the Sun is slowing every so slightly every year doesn't prevent us from having seasons that give rise to cycles of life.
All that the second law says is that in the long run, the universe goes silent. And I guess that is too much for the churchies to bear even if we are talking billions of years after all of us die.
Why the hell do they even care about any of that? They all believe they are going to be in some intergalactic country club they call heaven, so none of this is going to affect them.
stuntcat
(12,022 posts)Seriously. I'm so ashamed, more every day, more and more and more ashamed of being their species.
Only an evolutionary leap will get our species through the bottle neck of the last half of this century.
All these people are counting on the second coming saving them. That's humanity!, a species living a lie so big it could drive us to extinction.
Gothmog
(144,939 posts)Texas GOP primary voters are crazy. Right now, all four candidates for the GOP nomination for Lt. Governor are pushing creationism
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)who follow creationism? What am I missing..these folks are so extremely
devoted to a religion or what?
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)sakabatou
(42,136 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)1. Yes, Bill Nye is influencing children in a positive way.
2. Yes, I am a little bit scared of a divine creator as he might have a bad character.
3. The Earth having been created mature contradicts all findings in the field of geology and physics.
4. Put down that High School Physics textbook. The Second Law of Thermodynamics only applies to equilibrium-systems. If a system is out of equilibrium because it's open or because an event happens so fast that its ramifications can't reach thermodynamic equilibrium in proper time, then entropy can be destroyed. You are making an argument that was brought up and discarded roughly 100 years ago, smartass.
5. Sunsets happen because Earth is a sphere, revolving around the Sun.
6. See #4.
7. Metaphysics is desperately making up excuses to apply a philosophy to scientific facts.
8. There is no objective meaning to life apart from the basic behavioral laws of procreation inscribed in the code of our DNA. The human is free to decide to do what he wants and to be what he wants, beyond the drive for mere procreation.
9. See #4.
10. You are free to imply that a divine creator was responsible for the Big Bang, but so far there hasn't been found any proof to verify his complicity.
11. Because the existence of aliens is statistically more likely than the existence of God.
12. There is no "official proof" needed to verify the ancestral lineage of homo sapiens, because there is no official institution judging it. And as long as we dig out every single skeleton of every single ancestor of every single human, there will always be doubters who claim that "this" person didn't descend from a more primitive form.
13. Metamorphosis is different from evolution as it only influences the phenotype, not the genotype of a given organism.
14. Look up what "theory" means, then come back.
15. You got it exactly wrong: Science is meant to be observable, testable, repeatable and falsifiable.
16. See #4.
17. I think, the purposes of life are to procreate and to ensure that as many specimens of my species as possible have a life as good as possible.
18. We only have found one "Lucy" because skeletons are only conserved under specific geological circumstances.
19. I can easily believe in the Big Bang because it is the most simple explanation for various astronomical observations. It takes less faith than believing in a divine creator.
20. Go to Yemen, to Sudan, to Central Africa, to Benin, to the slums of Brazil, to Syria, to Libya, to the palestinian refugee-camps in Lebanon and to Afghanistan and tell those people that the world is amazing.
21. The Big Bang wasn't an exploding star. Grab an astronomy-book and come back.
22. Ancestral lineage is not a line but a tree. Homo sapiens represents one branch that happened to evolve some physiological traits that, among others, allowed it to grow a larger brain. Monkeys are a different branch that didn't evolve those traits.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)at oblique angles to the sun's light due to its composition.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)testing. These people are fucking dolts.
nyquil_man
(1,443 posts)It rests on something that cannot be proven. Anything which disproves it can be discarded as false evidence.
It's the real frustration of arguing with a creationist. Facts don't matter one bit. The clever ones make a pretense of caring deeply about facts and logic when all they really care about is their belief. See Ham, Ken.
progressoid
(49,951 posts)Ok, maybe a little angry. And frustrated. And depressed.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)I'll be here banging my head against the wall....
3catwoman3
(23,950 posts)...developing callouses from this oft-repeated expression of bafflement and frustration.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)It is ignorance veiled in a very shallow understanding of physics.
GoCubsGo
(32,075 posts)What the fuck is that numbskull talking about???
Warpy
(111,166 posts)fomented mostly in rural areas where people smugly claim that good honest common sense is much better than all that there book larnin.
The problem is that they don't have any of that, either. They're globally ignorant and proud uvvit.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Catholic school 50 years ago. Evolution was taught in Science class. Religion class taught God created Evoltion. Do they still teach this? I didn't send my own kids to Catholic school, so I don't know.
If you decided not to belive the God part, at least you still learned the Evolution part.
Evolution was taught thoroughly in just about every grade. We were taught Creationism and ID is in direct conflict with Church teaching. And, yes, we were taught that God created evolution. I went to a Catholic grade school, a Catholic high school, and a Catholic college. Science was HUGE in all three schools....real science, not that sake Creationist crap. I hold a science degree from a Catholic college.
I do believe that the current Pope and previous Popes have made statements supporting the science of evolution.
I don't know why these other religions cannot fathom that an Almighty God is capable of science...I think it's rather insulting to Him.
Gothmog
(144,939 posts)Here is some math from a Jewish scholar that these idiots would not be able to understand. Remember that the part of the bible/scriptures being relied on these idiots is the part of the scriptures (Torah for me) that has been looked at and studied by Jewish scholars for a long time. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-adam-jacobs/the-jewish-view-of-creati_b_800257.html
To the secularist, the notion that we should flippantly toss aside hundreds of years of scientific investigation unequivocally demonstrating an extremely old universe simply because some ancient tome says it was created less than 6,000 years ago is nothing short of idiocy. What I hope to demonstrate is that Judaism's understanding of this matter (and many others) is significantly more nuanced, complex and surprising than what is currently believed to be the standard religious gloss on the subject. The truth of the matter is that Judaism is frequently (and unfairly) lumped together with other religious systems that actually have vastly different ways of looking at things.
One thousand years ago, the great Jewish philosopher and physician, Moses Maimonides, wrote that there is no contradiction between Torah and science and that if one is perceived, then there was a misapprehension of the science or the Torah. Two centuries later, Rabbi Isaac of Akko, a disciple of the great Moses Ben Nachman (Nachmanides) and one of the foremost Kabbalists of his generation, wrote some surprising commentary regarding the age of the universe. In his work "the Trove of Life," he explains that the Earth was actually 42,000 years old when Adam was created and that these years are "divine" years and should not be thought of as 365 regular days. Rather, a divine year is 1,000 times longer or 365,250 years. He based this on a verse in Psalm 90 that says "1,000 years in your eyes is like a day gone by." Do the math. According to Rabbi Isaac, the universe is 42,000 x 365,250, or 15,340,500,000 years old. This figure is squarely within the ballpark of where modern cosmology places the age of the universe. How did he know this? And how did he posses the temerity to conclude it in the midst of the Dark Ages? Perhaps our fundamentalism is not quite as primitive as is supposed.
I admit that there are some Orthodox Rabbis who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old but they are in the minority and they do not take their beliefs to the crazed extremes that Ham does.
flying rabbit
(4,628 posts)Thanks
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)Non sequitur.
This is what Psalm 90:4 says:
But even if you were to believe this, it still means the bible is not literally correct.
Gothmog
(144,939 posts)There are some Orthodox Rabbis who believe that the earth is 6000 years old but most Jewish scholars and the Reform branch take a different view of the Torah and science. Here is a good example how Judaism views science and the Torah. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-geoffrey-a-mitelman/why-can-judaism-embrace-s_b_880003.html
I recently had a conversation with a neuroscientist, who also happened to be a self-described atheist. He knew I was a rabbi and so, in the middle of the conversation, he very tentatively asked me, "So ... do you believe in evolution?" I think what he was really asking was, "Can you be a religious person who believes in science?" And my answer to that question is, "Of course."
While some people think of science and religion as being inherently in conflict, I think it's because they tend to define "religion" as "blind acceptance and complete certainty about silly, superstitious fantasies." Quite honestly, if that's what religion really was, I wouldn't be religious!....
Instead, when Jews read the Bible today through a rabbinic worldview, we are trying to answer two separate questions: First, what did the text mean in its time, and second, how can we create interpretations that will give us lessons for our time?
Indeed, the Bible shouldn't be taken simply literally today because circumstances, societies, norms and knowledge have all changed.
A great example of that comes from how the rabbis interpret the verse "an eye for an eye." While that is what the Bible says, to the rabbis, that's not what the verse means. Instead, the rabbis argue, "an eye for an eye" actually means financial compensation, and they go on for multiple pages in the Talmud trying to explain their reasoning. They don't read that verse on its simple, literal level, but through the lenses of fairness, of common sense, of other verses in the Torah and of the best legal knowledge they had at that time.
So now we can also see why in Judaism the beginning of Genesis is not in conflict with the big bang theory or natural selection. On the one hand, for its time, the Bible provided an origin story that was a story that worked then, but now, science provides a much better explanation for how we got here.
But the Bible isn't meant to be taken only literally -- it's designed to be a source of study and exploration for the questions of our time. The point of the Creation story is really to challenge us with questions like, "How should we treat people if everyone is created in the image of God? What are our responsibilities to this world if God has called it 'good'?"
In Judaism, there's no concept of "God says it, I believe it, that settles it." Instead, Judaism pushes us to embrace the text for what it was back then, and to create new ways of reading the text for what it can be now.
As to the debate with the young earth people, I feel that it is important to make this debate not about religion vs. science but about how science and religion can co-exist. Ken Ham wants to make this debate about the concept that science must be wrong if there is only conflict with religion and that view explains why so many people are willing to reject science.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)The bible isn't a fax from god. It was written by man, for man. I think even most believers recognize the bible is fallible. I just see a growing or at least more politically vocal movement in this country that think the bible is infallible which I see as quite dangerous to society.
nyquil_man
(1,443 posts)That's my question.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But i need to watch my blood pressure, so I'm outty.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Re: the first one
You don't understand what theory encompasses. Hell, your own existence is a theory unless you take it to be a priori, the way you do all your other reasoning.
Re: the second one
You fucking Dumbass! How could you have memorized the question but forgotten the answer, which you have doubtless heard time and again from the people you hassle.
Almost everything that happens on Earth would appear to violate the second law of thermodynamics if you were so dumb you omitted the contribution of energy to our environment from a little thing called THE SUN. (That your God, intelligent designer that he was, created the day after he created plants.)
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)representing the future governing generation of our country?No wonder that we are going downhill!
sarisataka
(18,497 posts)needs to read the definition of theory. Comparing and contrasting it with hypothesis might help enlighten her.
As for the second law of thermodynamics- no, it applies to an isolated system not in equilibrium. In the context of evolution, the system (earth) is not isolated. The remainder of the universe, primarily the sun, acts upon it so the entropy of the earth system is constantly being offset. The second law would apply to the universe as a whole but we have no accurate way to empirically determine, nor account for an increase in entropy which could be attributed to evolution.
OTH I am personally able to reconcile a higher power not incompatible with scientific thought. It is quite simple if you accept that an omnipotent being is willing to express its action through what we observe as science. I realize I have no proof and the theory is basically impossible to prove due to the lack of a testable hypothesis, but I don't ask anyone else to accept it. It is enough for me.
truth2power
(8,219 posts)Yeah, I could go with that. All of it.
sarisataka
(18,497 posts)I have been lucky to learn religion from those unafraid to question faith and science from those who question theory.
As a priest said to me, (i am paraphrasing) the chemist studying gases does not doubt the existence of oxygen, just his understanding of it. It is the same to question the nature of God. You merely are seeking to deepen your understanding.
I pity people such as those above. IMO their faith is so shallow they cannot face any challenge to it but must reply on rote. An atheist is not a challenge to my belief, just my understanding; it can lead to a good debate if both parties are open minded. (And by the time we can conclusively determine who is correct, the matter will be moot )
truth2power
(8,219 posts)to scientists. This has been explained so many times. Where has she been? Under a rock?
The man: That question asked and answered last night. The earth is not a closed system. Also, apparently a Mandelbrot set is an example (among many others) of complexity arising from simplicity. Don't ask. I don't really understand fractals. Maybe some mathematician here can explain it.
JI7
(89,240 posts)things i thought were a parody or satire have often turned out to be the real thing.
i can never tell the difference when it comes to the Palin .
Agony
(2,605 posts)dwelling in intellectual darkness...
surrealAmerican
(11,358 posts)Others of their ilk have gutted science education to the point where these "opinions" make sense to them. It's just sad.
goldent
(1,582 posts)and they always succeed.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)It's not just that ignorance exists, but that it is now flaunted and admired. Anti-intellectualism runs amok in Merka, and the GOP rejoices.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)1. Hopefully he is doing that.
2. Can't be scared of something that does not exist.
3. For things with required stages of development? Yes....
4. No. The 2nd law of thermodynamics does NOT disprove the theory of evolution. Earth is not a closed system.
5. Seriously? The earth rotates and blocks our view of the sun.
6. See 4. The second law in no ways debunks said theories and only people who have no understanding of any of said laws would try and claim otherwise...
7. What about it?
8. There is no meaning to life. We make our own.
9. Some chemicals combined with other chemicals and created the first single cell organism. Does life resulting from chance scare you?
10. Good for you.
11. We don't.
12. There is far more than lucy...try looking stuff up occasionally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_evolution_fossils
13. Metamorphosis was evolved just like everything else.
14. Evolution is both a fact and theory. Neither Creationism or the bible are theories.
15. Science is not a theory, it is a method of acquiring knowledge and the collection of said knowledge. Further, it is testable, repeatable, and observable. Creationism is not a science. Also, see the first and 14'th amendments.
16. Mutation, crossing over, errors in replications, etc.
17. There is no purpose. We make up our own purpose.
18. We have found more than 1. See 12.
19. Absolutely
20. How can you look upon the world and see design? Thats like a puddle of water thinking the entire universe was made for it because it fits perfectly in a crack. Its even more amazing when you remove the creator.
21. The big bang did not originate from an exploding star...
22. We evolved from a common ancestor. They don't need to go anywhere.
Man, these people are completely clueless.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)Nowhere in the definition of the word "science" does the word "theory" appear.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/science
Rex
(65,616 posts)HEHE!
There is a compelling argument to be made the evolution has stopped for some. I think I found the closed system on Republicans.
They just don't know any better.
Rex
(65,616 posts)but in their Foxnews reality there is a direct connection (mouth to bunghole) between both external sphincters that causes a closed loop. Notice how they can NEVER learn anything new past the age their parents told them what to think? Maybe some initial learning in college.
Whole thing runs on some kind of gas is my theory. Eventually there is a cascade failure in all Super Republicans. That would explain people like Rush and Glenn and Billy Blow.
How do we talk to such people if they lack the ability to intake new information?
Heidi
(58,237 posts)I've found that facts very often threaten these folks' shared world view. They often become defensive, even when the facts aren't particularly provocative. Life's too short for me to waste much time arguing with brick walls.
Rex
(65,616 posts)hopefully far away.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)BootinUp
(47,085 posts)hell, we could be extinct any day. There could be some natural disaster, or a man-made catastrophe, or we could slowly die off because of some evolutionary fluke that produces more idiots than intelligent humans. All I know is that I will never stop ridiculing right wing nut jobs for their anti-science views. NEVER!!!!!!!!!
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)...while simultaneously being so goddamned stupid.
How do they live?
opiate69
(10,129 posts)I think there is this idea out there that every scientist who doesnt believe in the divine word of scripture thinks that science will eventually tell a complete, whole story of the Universe, including every aspect of where it came from and why. I am going to come forward and just say it right now: we know that is false. The Universe is vast some 46 billion light years in radius with at least 200 billion galaxies and around 10^25 planets, total, in just the part of it thats observable to us. There are some 10^91 particles existing in the Universe right now, all of which were created some 13.8 billion years ago. But as big as these numbers are, they are finite.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Im not Bill, but Id say yes, he is. More than just giving them facts to memorize, he is showing them how science works. Not only that, his clear love and enthusiasm for science is infectious, and that to me is his greatest gift.
2) Are you scared of a Divine Creator?
No. In fact, if there is a Judeo-Christian god, that would have fascinating implications for much of what we scientists study, and would be a rich vein to mine. Perhaps a more pertinent question is, Are you scared there might not be a Divine Creator? There is more room for a god in science than there is for no god in religious faith.
3) Is it completely illogical that the Earth was created mature? i.e. trees created with rings Adam created as an adult ....
It might be internally consistent, even logical, but a bit of a stretch. After all, we can posit that God created the Universe last Thursday, looking exactly as it is, with all evidence pointing to it being old and your memories implanted such that you think youre older than a mere few days. Consistent, sure, but plausible? Not really.
4) Does not the second law of thermodynamics disprove evolution?
No. The creationist argument assumes the Earth is a closed system, such that energy cannot escape or enter. But the Sun is the main source of energy for the Earth. This allows more order to be created, and for entropy to be locally lowered in some cases.
Read the rest: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/02/06/religion_and_science_answering_creationists_questions.html
Marr
(20,317 posts)They all seem to think they've got that magical "gotcha" question that will make science crumble. Every smarmy "question" they posed was either a restatement of some centuries-old piece of sophistry that was laughable when first uttered, or a sad example of utter scientific illiteracy.
Smug is exactly the right word. Smug and stupid.