No jail for "affluenza" fuckwad who killed 4- again.

[cali]

A judge on Wednesday ordered a Texas teenager who was sentenced to 10 years' probation in a drunken-driving crash that killed four people to go to a rehabilitation facility paid for by his parents.

Judge Jean Boyd again decided to give no jail time for Ethan Couch, defense attorney Reagan Wynn and prosecutors told reporters after the hearing, which was closed to the public. Prosecutors had asked Boyd to sentence him to 20 years in state custody on charges related to two people who were severely injured.

The sentence stirred fierce debate, as has the testimony of a defense expert who says Couch's wealthy parents coddled him into a sense of irresponsibility. The expert termed the condition "affluenza."

<snip>

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/article/Judge-orders-no-jail-for-teen-in-fatal-car-wreck-5205754.php

the details of this case are just horrific.

<snip>

Couch was 16 at the time of the accident. His blood-alcohol level was three times the legal limit for an adult and there were traces of Valium in his system when he lost control of his pickup truck and plowed into a group of people helping a woman whose car had stalled.

Seven passengers were riding in Couch's truck. One, Sergio Molina, is paralyzed and can communicate only by blinking. The other, Solimon Mohmand, suffered numerous broken bones and internal injuries.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/article/Judge-orders-no-jail-for-teen-in-fatal-car-wreck-5205754.php

and minimum amount of time the little fuck has to spend in rehab. fuck the judge.

[xfundy]

1. Wish they could stick his brain into

the kid he paralyzed for a few years. Little bastard!

[DefenseLawyer]

2. They should just shoot him in the back of the head.

That seems to be the only thing that would satisfy the "progressive" DU mob.

[NuclearDem]

3. A few years in jail would suffice.

[DefenseLawyer]

5. He is the only teenager that has ever driven drunk.

Sadly the result was more horrible than for the millions of other dumb kids who have made the same mistake. Predictably, when something horrible happens, most of society wants vengeance and retribution, not justice.

[Logical]

6. You think 5 years in jail is not justice? n-t

[DefenseLawyer]

9. If he's a grown man with priors, probably

He's a kid who made the same bad decision that many many teenagers make, the result was much worse, but I'm quite sure that was not his intent. Had this been an intentional crime, there is a different argument. However, I think prison should be a last resort. That may not be a popular position here, but I will tell you that five years in prison will make that kid a far worse member of society and it won't bring the victims back.

[Logical]

12. So a DUI to you should be punished the same if no one dies vs. 5 people die? I think....

people wanting life in prison is too hard but your side is just as crazy too.

[DefenseLawyer]

15. People died and that's horrible

but it's still not an intentional crime. I didn't say he shouldn't be held responsible. I said that prison does more harm than good in the vast majority of cases.

[Logical]

18. You need some downside to killing people through intentional negligence....

like if I drive 150 MPH and kill a family in a car.

I would say drinking and driving is intentional. Like speeding 150mph is.

I do agree with you that sentences are crazy now. Prosecutors are afraid of looking weak on crime.

We should do more probation and less jail.

But I disagree deaths deserve no jail time.

[pink-o]

80. That may be true, but everyone here knows if this kid had been poor and/or black...

20 years would've been the minimum sentence. It's the "affluenza" that sticks so hard in one's craw.

[NuclearDem]

55. Of course it wasn't intentional. That's why it's manslaughter, not murder.

But four people are dead because of his "mistake." If he had just totaled a parked car or knocked over some mailboxes, fine, just give him probation, but he killed four people.

[mountain grammy]

59. And he probably will be a grown man with priors before too long..

no consequences for his actions. My brain says you are right, but I think of other youths going to prison for much less. If he were an African American kid with no resources, just robbing the liquor store would have gotten him jail time. Two wrongs can never make a right, but there is no justice in this country of ours.

[smokey nj]

72. He did have priors. This was not Ethan Couch's first DUI offense.

Teen driver involved in deadly crash had prior alcohol citations

BURLESON -- News 8 has learned the 16-year-old boy involved in a crash that killed four people June 15 had two prior alcohol violations.

Police in the Town of Lakeside, northwest of Fort Worth, found Ethan Couch with a 12-ounce can of beer and a 1.75-liter bottle of vodka. Just before 1 a.m. February 19, a Lakeside officer gave Couch two citations -- one for being a minor in possession of alcohol, the other for consuming alcohol as a minor.

News 8 obtained court documents related to both citations.

In March, Couch plead no contest in both cases. His mother paid $423 in court costs. As terms of his probation, her son agreed to take an alcohol awareness class and participate in 12 hours of community service, to be completed by June 19.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Teenage-driver-involved-in-deadly-crash-had-prior-alcohol-citations-212577071.html

[avebury]

78. Let us be honest. If he was not from a wealthy family,

he would have gotten jail time. The injustice is that there is not equal justice for all. The rich are allowed to buy their way out of trouble while the poor go straight to jail. I don't know if the judge is elected to office but if Boyd is an elected official, it would be interesting to know if the kid's parents are campaign donors.

I would have more sympathy if this had been the kid's first offence. It was not. It is clear that the slap on the wrist for prior bad acts drove home the idea that privilege trumps being held accountable for illegal behavior. Maybe if he had been accountable for his past bad acts he would not be responsible for the killing and serious injury of several innocent people. And his parents are certainly no prize. I doublt spending time in a country club resort rehab will teach him much. I fully expect that we have not heard the last of this kid.

I just hope that the families of his victims sue the family for every dime they have.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Crouch_Case

Family and early incidents[edit]

Ethan's father is Fred Couch, owner of Cleburne Metal Works, which has approximately 30 employees and a yearly turnover estimated at $15 million.[4] His mother is Tonya Couch. They were divorced in 2007. Ethan's parents both have had incidents with the law, publicized in the media following their son's conviction, but have never served any time in prison.[4] Ethan's father has been charged with criminal mischief, theft by check and assault, but these charges were dismissed. Ethan's mother was sentenced to a $500 fine and a six month community supervision order[4] for reckless driving.[5]

In February 2013, Ethan was cited for "minor in consumption of alcohol" and "minor in possession of alcohol". He pled no contest and was sentenced to probation, a compulsory alcohol awareness class, and 12 hours of community service.[6]

[Ken Burch]

29. Not the only one who's ever driven drunk...but likely the only one

Who ever KILLED FOUR PEOPLE WITH HIS CAR and got off scot-free for it.

This isn't a misdemeanor, counsellor...and it's no defense that "his parents didn't teach him responsibility". Whatever your parents teach you or DON'T teach you, everbody knows it's against the law to drive drunk and against the law to kill people.

If the kid had been Mexican-American or African-American, they'd have already given him a life sentence by now(assuming the sheriff and his deputies hadn't just wasted him at the crime scene). And you know it.

Can you honestly DEFEND this ruling?

[truebluegreen]

4. Why don't you direct your ire at that judge

who sentenced a working class kid to 20 YEARS for a very similar offense? Or do you think we should just scrap the whole idea of "Equal Justice under Law."

[DefenseLawyer]

7. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The first kid was treated unfairly. It's not the second kid's fault. We put more people in prison than any country in the world. More prison isn't the answer to teens driving drunk.

[truebluegreen]

14. You are assuming facts not in evidence, counselor.

I didn't suggest 20 years was the appropriate sentence. My problem is with the unequality.

But I am confused: you said "two wrongs don't make a right" and also "more prison isn't the answer." So if probation wasn't right, and prison isn't either, what is?

[DefenseLawyer]

17. You are confused

When did I say probation wasn't right? I didn't even say punishment wasn't right. He committed a crime and should be punished. I think too many equate sending someone to prison with "justice". I would submit that in the vast majority of cases, not just this one, prison does more harm than good for society as a whole.

[truebluegreen]

28. Somebody certainly is.

One kid got 20 years, one kid got probation, you said, "Two wrongs don't make a right." Which wrongs were you referring to?

[DefenseLawyer]

31. Obviously giving the other kid 20 years was wrong

In my opinion. Although we throw around 20 year sentences in this country like they are nothing, I don't necessarily think that sentences of more that 20 years are productive, even for the most serious of crimes. I don't include negligent kids in that category.

[truebluegreen]

67. You seem determined to keep answering the wrong question.

What were the "two wrongs" you referred to?

[ieoeja]

83. Throwing both kids in jail for 20 years. n/t

[truebluegreen]

87. Thanks for your input, but it sidesteps the question

just like the person I was asking before.

[ieoeja]

90. No, it does not.

The question was "what were (sic) the 'two wrongs' to which" he referred.

"Throwing both kids in jail for 20 years," would have been the two wrongs the other poster referenced.


That could not possibly be a more direct answer to the question.

[truebluegreen]

91. Your answer would have been helpful

if he/she had been talking about two things that might have happened instead of two things that did. Thanks again for sharing your superior knowledge on several levels.

[ieoeja]

92. He/she was obviously *was* talking about two things that "might" have happened.

If my knowledge is "superior" to yours ... I don't know.

[Ken Burch]

30. You're basically saying that it's FINE that this kid got off scot-free

And that he'll forget about this in six months and live his life as though he never did this.

You're basically saying it's fine for the rich to be exempted from consequences in this country.

This kid will NEVER feel the slightest twinge of guilt or shame for what he did. This will guarantee that he doesn't even care that these people are dead.

And as soon as he's out of rehab, this kid will drive drunk again and kill again.

[DefenseLawyer]

34. I'm saying prison isn't a magic bullet

That's all I'm saying. You are free to keep hoping it will be and putting more and more people in prison for longer and longer. Eventually it's going to work and we won't have crime anymore.

[Ken Burch]

38. Nobody here believes that prison is a magic bullet.

What we are saying is that it's only the rich that ever get away with things like this.

If it had just been not sending him to prison...that might have been acceptable IF

1)He'd been given a lengthy(say, ten-to-twelve year)community service sentence...possibly involving tending the graves of his dead victims or working in the hospitals and physical therapy centers where his surviving-but-severely-maimed victims will spend years in treatment(possibly also he could have been made to do clean-up work the morgue);

2)He and his family had been asked to pay for the funerals of the dead and ALL the medical expenses of the living;

3)He'd been required to actually ADMIT HE'D DONE WRONG and to apologize to those of his victims who survived and the next of kin of those who didn't.

But NOTHING was asked of this kid at all. And it goes without saying that he feels no remorse and doesn't even care about the people he killed.

And it also goes without saying that, whatever one's feelings about prison, this young man ONLY avoided a lengthy prison term(or even perhaps execution)because he was rich. I know it. You know it.

This thread is not the place to discuss how people feel about the correctional system. The only issues here are class and, probably, race.

Does that clarify why you're getting the blow-back you're receiving here?

[DefenseLawyer]

41. I'm not at all surprised by the "blowback"

Yours is by far the more popular opinion in this country.

[Ken Burch]

42. My opinion wasn't "pro-prison"...it's "pro-consequences"

Are you even against having the kid and his family pay for the victims medical expenses?

OR even against expecting the kid to apologize?

What, if anything, would you have this rich, soulless, compassion-free teenager do in response to what he did?

You can't just be against any form of punishment...even community service and restitution.

And you still haven't explained why you're making the case in THIS thread, rather than in threads about the poor, working-class kids who are the real victims of the PIC. This kid, this rich white kid with no conscience and no soul, isn't the victim here.

[DefenseLawyer]

45. Restitution isn't that simple in a criminal case

The kid probably doesn't have any real assets of his own, and insurance can't be used to pay restitution in a criminal case. So if the judge orders him to pay restitution as part of his punishment there is a good chance he never pays. You can't order his parents to pay because they haven't committed a crime. A civil action is the best way to collect damages here. I'm quite sure the victims will get ample settlements for damages.

[Ken Burch]

47. His parents are insanely rich...THEY could pay.

The kid was a minor when he killed those people, so his parents are responsible for his actions.

And no, nobody ever beats the rich in a civil suit...deep pockets always guarantee a win.

Basically, you're saying this kid(and it's ONLY a rich white kid that would ever get this treatment)should just get away with it...shouldn't face ANY consequences at all...shouldn't EVEN have to freaking apologize.

Yes, we do need an alternative to the PIC, but letting this kid kill and get off scot-free can't possibly be part of making that happen.

You can't really feel this way, but your posts make it sound like you don't give a damn about the dead, the wounded, and their families...that it doesn't matter to you that all those people suffered. Please, re-read what you've posted...it sounds like all that matters to you here is saying that, as a crime-fighting method, prison sucks. You just can't leave it at that and expect anyone to listen to you. Prison does suck, the PIC is corrupt...but alternative consequences have to be created somehow, or else people will just waste each other for playing the damn stereo too loud.

[DefenseLawyer]

57. He was tried as an adult

The court has absolutely no jurisdiction over his parents. Sorry. And I really do have to go!

[Rex]

10. So you don't think he should face any jail time for killing innocent people?

You really aren't that progressive then.

[DefenseLawyer]

13. Prison is America's answer for everything.

If we could just put more people in prison, everyone else would stop making bad decisions. And as a bonus, all those kids we put in prison won't be raped/mentored by hardened criminals, they'll learn a valuable lesson and come out of prison and really contribute to society.

[Rex]

19. So that is a long way of saying, 'no I do not think a murderer needs to pay for their crimes.'

Thanks, that is all I needed to know.

[DefenseLawyer]

20. You think this was murder?

That may be the problem right there.

[Rex]

22. Not really, you seem to be incapable of placing blame on this person

and so I really think you don't want to have a real debate. He killed people with his recklessness...I guess in your world nobody takes responsibility for their actions.

[DefenseLawyer]

24. Why must we assume that prison is the only way to "take responsibility"?

It's cool. You are in line with the vast majority of "law and order" Americans. And I must say, it was worked wonderfully so far.

[Rex]

25. Because of the severity of the crime committed? Otherwise no one has suggest such a thing.

Maybe if you were an actual lawyer, you might know these things.

[Ken Burch]

33. You're using the WRONG case for the point you're trying to make here.

Yes, we do depend too much on prison as a solution to crime in this country...but the judge who let this kid off scot-free didn't do so because she cared about that.

She did so only because she doesn't believe that rich people should ever be punished for anything.

Please let this one go...you aren't helping the victims of excessive incarceration one bit by what you're posting in this thread.

[Ken Burch]

43. It's perfectly possible to be against mass incarceration

And still think it's wrong that THIS kid won't face any consequences.

You aren't entitled to act as if you're the only one who cares about the excesses of the Prison-Industrial Complex.

You can't really think it's a defeat for the PIC and a victory for the railroaded Rainbow inmates that this rich kid got off scot-free.

[Rex]

54. +1

Thanks for saying it better than I ever could.

[Evergreen Emerald]

76. What do you believe should be his consequences?

[Ken Burch]

49. What was it if it wasn't murder?

It's not like killing four people because you insisted on driving drunk is a trivial offense.

[DefenseLawyer]

56. Murder is an intention killing

This is manslaughter or reckless homicide or vehicular homicide or driving while intoxicated resulting in death. To be murder you would have to prove that he wanted to kill those people. I don't think there is any evidence of that. Just because it's senseless and horrible doesn't make it murder.

[Ken Burch]

58. To make the distinction is to minimize.

Whether he meant to kill these people or not, he chose to drive drunk KNOWING that there was a good chance someone would be injured or killed. It can't be treated as just happenstance, something regrettable but unavoidable.

When you get back...answer this:

Would you really oppose a long community service sentence for this kid?

Or even a requirement that he apologize?

It sounds like you don't think he should have to be affected by his actions at all.

And it sounds like you don't care that the ONLY reason this kid is getting this no-consequences treatment is because he's the spawn of the wealthy.

When you have time to post again, please clarify your actual feeling on those points.

Because just repeating "prison is useless" isn't an answer to anything we're talking about here.

[Ken Burch]

32. This isn't the case to use if you're making an argument against prisons.

That argument should be made when it comes to working-class kids, kids of color, poor kids...the ones who ARE the victims of the prison-industrial complex.

Not when it comes to this kid.

Thanks to this ruling...we know this kid will never learn from this and never stop drinking and driving. He'll just go on and on until somebody DOES throw him in prison...because the rich are never punished for anything in this country.

[DefenseLawyer]

37. Again you assume that prison cause people to "learn"

It doesn't. That aside, we look at a crime where a poor kid would be sent to prison. You all say "bullshit! Send the rich kid to prison too!" I say "let the poor kid out." We just have a different opinion of the criminal justice system.

[Ken Burch]

40. I agree with letting the poor kid out.

But again, this isn't about what people feel about prison.

It's about a rich kid avoiding ANY consequences.

Doesn't it bother you that the kid isn't even being asked to apologize or express remorse? That his family won't ever end up paying a cent to help the surviving victims with their medical costs?

That he's not even being asked to do community service?

That this kid, because all he's getting is a trivial stint in rehab, won't ever even care about what he's done?

[Drew Richards]

16. I'm sorry I am part of the "progressive" mob and I haven't heard anyone advocate such extremes

But YOU...

Most of us are just asking for a reasonable sentence for the crime commited..not 6 months at a day spa...

Two wrongs don't make a right doesn't apply councilor.

This judge is in violation of state sentencing guidelines and to accept an un-accepted and un-recognized bullshit psychological diagnosis to allow her to grant immense leniency to this child raise questions of payola or kickbacks.

This will be kicked upstairs. If by no one else by the Justice dept. I hope...

[alphafemale]

21. No just let him out soon to kill a few more people.

Wait to teach someone brought up with no consequences.

Kill people.

You get to go ride horses.

[DefenseLawyer]

23. If only it was that simple

Prison isn't a "consequence" that reduces future crimes. We just wish it was. Which is why we have more people in prison, and more crime, than almost any country in the world.

[Ken Burch]

35. But this kid wasn't given any NON-prison forms of punishment.

He and his family weren't forced to pay any restitution to his victims(they should at least be on the hook for the funeral costs of the dead and the medical bills of the living...and we know they won't ever be asked to pay a penny for that).

He wasn't asked to do community service...a long stretch of which would to a lot to make this kid a better person, simply because it would expose him to non-bazillionaires on a daily basis.

The kid wasn't even asked to freaking APOLOGIZE...he wasn't asked to show any regret...to admit that he had done any harm at all.

He's just going to rehab...and rehab can't change him in any useful way.

Tonight, this kid is at home in a mansion, laughing his head off.

He won. Like his class always wins.

That's what you are defending here.

[TroglodyteScholar]

36. If he went to prison odds are EXCEEDINGLY HIGH that he would never kill someone with his car again..

...for the entire duration of his stay.

Sounds quite effective to me.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. Of course it does

That's why we put more people in prison than the Chinese. Because by god it sounds good.

[Ken Burch]

44. So present an alternative.

If people do crimes, especially unforgiveable violent crimes like this(killing four people can't be called anything BUT murder, for God's sakes...what, as an alternative, do you think they should face in terms of consequences?

Prison is a horribly corrupt and ineffective institution...but when somebody does something like this, they have to face some sort of punishment...if they don't nobody will ever AVOID doing things like this.

Put up or shut up...what would YOU see as fair and just consequences for this privileged young white kid for the horrible thing he did here?

[DefenseLawyer]

48. I'm out of time

As much as I'm enjoying the discussion I can't stay. Hopefully we can pick up on it another time soon.

[Ken Burch]

51. Thanks for admitting you just came here to be a shit-stirrer.

I was trying to have a serious, sensitive discussion with you and that response basically told me to fuck off.

Not cool, dude.

[jsr]

60. Defending the rich is a rewarding job.

Let rich people buy their freedom.

[Ken Burch]

61. And then reimburse them for the costs with a tax cut.

[jsr]

63. The victims should really apologize.

Their families, anyway. Only then will justice be served.

[Ken Burch]

68. Darn right. And there's NOTHING less "pro-life"

than dying in a car crash...so obviously they just let themselves die to encourage "the abortion industry"



Also...they damaged that kid's car when they smashed into it...that's lack of respect for private property. Damn Commies!

[Ken Burch]

62. And then reimburse them for the costs they incurred buying their freedom

With a massive and permanent tax cut.

[TroglodyteScholar]

82. Your China comparison lacks an important detail

How many people are executed in China, and for what crimes?

Of course, acknowledging that aspect of their system makes your argument fall flat. So maybe I see why you skipped it.

[cali]

74. let me explain this to you really simply: As long as the norm is prison time for these

types of crimes, rich people shouldn't get off with no prison time when those who aren't rich serve time. it's that basic. maybe you support a two tiered system; from your remarks the reasonable reader could come to that conclusion with making any leaps, but I think that it's a very bad thing indeed.

[Chathamization]

64. I was always bothered when the rightwingers would call Ted Kennedy a murderer

Good to know that some here like to use the same rhetoric when it's someone they don't like.

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. No, asshole. What should be an appropriate punishment is for him to spend as much time

in a cell that would keep him separate from HIS loved ones for as much time as he deprived the families of those he MERCILESSLY killed from spending with THEIRS.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. It's the class distinction that is at issue....

The rich can murder and buy their way out for less of a percentage of their income than someone in the middle class might pay to buy a new muffler for their car.

[JI7]

70. people like you get more outraged at those who are angry over what happened

than over the incident itself which killed people because of someone being a selfish piece of shit.

[cali]

73. he should have gone to prison. I never, ever advocate violence.

[Springslips]

79. Red Herring, Red Herring!

The real issue is that weath shouldn't privilege one to a better form of justice than others. And yes, he should be harshly punish, he is old enough to be responsible. And I am a progressive irregardless of your No True Scotsman set-up.

[Blue_Tires]

84. Come the hell on

you know damn well a black teen gets a harsher sentence just for shoplifting the beer

Spare me your fucking "mob" talk...

[tnlefty]

89. Nope. I've told my sons since they were young...

don't drink and drive, and don't get into a car with someone who has been drinking, even if it's a relative. Call home and we'll come get and pick you up or we'll call a cab for you and pay the fare.

We have a son who celebrated his 21st birthday at home with us and his grandparents, and I bought him Arrogant Bastard Ale....teach your children well.

[PumpkinAle]

8. And now...........

State District Judge Jean Boyd kicked the media out of her courtroom ahead of a February 5 hearing to announce probation terms for Ethan Couch.

This is a link to an article which tells the tale of two teens who were given very different sentences -

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/12/21/5436891/1-judge-2-troubled-teens-2-sentences.html

[Rex]

11. The wealthy live by different rules then the working class.

No one need look for further proof.

[Egalitarian Thug]

26. The only law at the parasite level is that you can never, ever fuck with another parasite.

Beyond that, they can do anything they want to to little people, murder, rape, theft, anything goes.

[Rex]

27. Yes it is our reality in 2014.

nt.

[PumpkinAle]

86. Sad, but true. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

85. Brilliant find....

It's funny to see the judge get defensive when this shit gets waved in her face....

[jsr]

46. Moral of the story: Rich people don't go to prison.

[blkmusclmachine]

50. Must be nice to be so rich.

[denverbill]

52. This should be cause celeb for Democrats in Texas.

There is nobody in their fucking right mind that thinks this is justifiable except the 1% and their Republican enablers.

[Egalitarian Thug]

53. Another prime example of the paradise that is Texass. n/t

[blackspade]

65. The stupid hurts.

There has to be money involved in this.

It's an absolute outrage.

[3catwoman3]

71. But if you pee on the Alamo...

...it off to the slammer for you -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/107815014#post3

[Loaded Liberal Dem]

75. The best solution? Make Ethan Couch this judge's personal driver nt

[Redford]

81. That is a great idea! Eom

[Loaded Liberal Dem]

88. Thank you! :-)

But my name's not Eom, it's Rob.

[ck4829]

77. I hope people are watching and scrutinizing every action he does for the rest of his life

The guy is a murderer and left another man in a fate worse than death.

[gerogie2]

93. He is a teenager

He is immature, so he should get some leniency from the court. You are also forgetting that if he breaks probation he can be sentenced to ten years in prison. This young man is not getting a free ride.

People die in car accidents every day in America.

[link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year|