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cali

(114,904 posts)
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 04:34 PM Feb 2014

Sick: Oil drillers pay for fracking workshops for teachers

Think of oil and gas drilling like removing the filling from a Twinkie, Ohio science teachers were told in an industry-funded workshop last week. Each teacher was handed a snack cake and a plastic straw.

Put the straw in the wrong place, and you don’t get much cream. Put it in too many places, and you destroy the Twinkie. The teachers began poking around.

“It’s $100,000 every time you stick it in,” said a workshop leader.

This is one of the hands-on, fun activities the Ohio Oil and Gas Energy Education Program shares with teachers who want to show their students the science of fossil-fuel extraction.

<snip>

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/02/07/oil-drillers-pay-for-workshops-for-teachers.html

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sick: Oil drillers pay for fracking workshops for teachers (Original Post) cali Feb 2014 OP
Disturbing. We need to keep these parasites out of our schools. nt TheMathieu Feb 2014 #1
Very good analogy. badtoworse Feb 2014 #2
please tell me you're being sarcastic. cali Feb 2014 #3
I believe fracking can be done safely badtoworse Feb 2014 #6
Perhaps it can, but it isn't and it won't be- not in the main. cali Feb 2014 #8
It was the only link to EPA's letter I could find. badtoworse Feb 2014 #10
Sure it can...at a cost not compatible with corporate profit. nt Earth_First Feb 2014 #13
This is true, it's about as close to a fair analogy as a hands-on lesson can provide. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #5
Gasland not biased? That's hilarious badtoworse Feb 2014 #7
Re-read my post. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #15
I misinterpreted - I get it now. badtoworse Feb 2014 #16
no, my coporate adoring friend. I would prefer that the industry not use cali Feb 2014 #9
"indoctrinate"? ROFL. Should we keep industrial processes super top secret? NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #17
way to miss the point cali Feb 2014 #18
Sorry to disappoint. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #21
lol. pretty much what you do? that's frightening. cali Feb 2014 #23
Kindly point out how this is wrong, or where there are any lies or misinformation. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #4
Seriously? cali Feb 2014 #11
wow angrychair Feb 2014 #12
New Study Finds Worrisome Pattern of Birth Defects in Fracking Communities cali Feb 2014 #14
Way to misinterpret. Nobody said hydraulic fracturing is fun and great. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #19
having the industry give workshops is counter to your desire to see teachers armed cali Feb 2014 #20
Put up or shut up. Show me where there is a lie in the content or just back the hell off. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #22
Seriously, NO. You're wrong on this. cali Feb 2014 #25
The medical industry, law enforcement sector, Bar Association, construction industry, all of them... NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #26
That is a real problem and not just with fracking badtoworse Feb 2014 #24
The better industry funded educational programs are vetted. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #27
 

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
2. Very good analogy.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 04:41 PM
Feb 2014

The teacher should point out that if it's done properly, the cream can be sucked out without damaging the cake or spilling any on your clothes.

 

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
6. I believe fracking can be done safely
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:21 PM
Feb 2014

That is not to say that the record is perfect, but there is no form of energy production that has a spotless record. Like virtually every other energy technology it's getting better and safer. Current focus is on better cementing of the well casings and the treatment and recycling of the fracking water. The concern I have is not with the Shells and the Chesapeakes in the business, but the potential for a fly by night outfit to do a poor job and tar the entire industry.

The energy cost advantage the US can realize with our vast shale resources gives us a competitive advantage in manufacturing on the world market. We pay about $4 for natural gas whereas Japan and Europe are paying in the $9 - $15 range. That is a real incentive for industry to move back here. IMO, we'd be crazy to give that up.

Look at power generation. The power plants of today are a lot more efficient than and emit maybe 99% less pollution than plants built 30 or so years ago. Coal mining used to be far more dangerous than it is today. Technology gets better and fracking technology will be no different.

Note to other posters: I follow this stuff for a living, so there is no need to post about Dimock, Pavillion or Parker County - I already know about them. BTW, you might be interested to read EPA's letter to the NRDC on these incidents and fracking in general. Go to this link:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/epa-vows-action-on-fracking-rules-policy-20140115

There is a link to EPA's letter on the page.

ETA: I'm generally supportive of EPA's approach.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
8. Perhaps it can, but it isn't and it won't be- not in the main.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:32 PM
Feb 2014

national journal is right wing, btw.

New reports were out yesterday about how fracking is compounding drought- and not in a minor way.

 

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
10. It was the only link to EPA's letter I could find.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:39 PM
Feb 2014

I get most of my energy related news from proprietary subscriptions. Water is definitely an issue. There is work being done to recycle used frack water to reduce the drain on fresh water. I am confident the technology will get there.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. This is true, it's about as close to a fair analogy as a hands-on lesson can provide.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:00 PM
Feb 2014

In a variation of this lesson, lentil beans are used mixed in with pinto beans, and the learner has to remove only the lentils and can't pull out any pintos or else there's a penalty.

And if there's a "spill" they are assessed three lentils (profit) for each lentil spilled.

The OP might prefer kids watch "Gasland" over and over and never actually learn anything that isn't biased.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
15. Re-read my post.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:55 PM
Feb 2014

My implication is that the OP might prefer that teachers only expose students to biased materials like the film "Gasland".

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
9. no, my coporate adoring friend. I would prefer that the industry not use
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:34 PM
Feb 2014

public school teachers as a conduit to indoctrinate children.



 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
17. "indoctrinate"? ROFL. Should we keep industrial processes super top secret?
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:57 PM
Feb 2014

Should we protect teachers from learning how things in the real world are done?

I pray that your profession is somewhere far outside of education.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
18. way to miss the point
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:00 PM
Feb 2014

and I pray YOU have nothing to do with education.



did you read the NRDC piece about the study conducted by Brown and University of Colorado Public health scientists?

You know, those radical ecoterrorist types at NRDC and Brown University.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
21. Sorry to disappoint.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:03 PM
Feb 2014

Education is pretty much what I do, cali.

Again, you totally miss the point that I'm making, which is that knowledge is power and preventing people from learning the facts and to only be exposed to biased materials with an agenda is a fool's mission that does our teachers and our students a disservice.

Thanks for absolutely nothing.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
23. lol. pretty much what you do? that's frightening.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:06 PM
Feb 2014

you miss the point is right.

The industry benefits from the practice. It is a controversial practice and they are NOT presenting the downside.

this is a no brainer.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
4. Kindly point out how this is wrong, or where there are any lies or misinformation.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 04:51 PM
Feb 2014

Because I'm looking at their website and the agenda, and don't see anything that concerns me.

Thousands are employed in these industries, and practically everyone uses fossil fuels based energy and products.

Why shouldn't kids learn more about the facts of production?

What do they gain by being kept in the dark?

Facts are empowering, I say bring it on. If the workshops are filled with lies then I trust teachers to call them on it.

http://oogeep.org/teachers-students/

ABOUT
The goal of the workshop is to help foster energy education by connecting science education to the energy industry.
During the workshop, each teacher will receive resource materials, classroom supplies, lesson plans, poster, DVDs,
maps, documentation for CEU CREDITS, optional

ASHLAND UNIVERSITY GRADUATE CREDITS, Science Standards,
Benchmark Connections, Internet Links and activities, plus a few other special surprises! Six learning stations will include
hands-on experiments, background information, industry guest speakers, graphic organizer ideas, internet activities
and career connections. The free teacher workshop includes: overnight accommodations, meals, curriculum, classroom
supplies, material kits, “hands-on” sessions, evening social gathering, a special oilfield tour, CEU credit documentation
and optional Ashland University graduate credits, plus much more!

SCHEDULE
DAY ONE OF WORKSHOP

8:00 AM - Registration / Continental Breakfast

8:30 AM - Workshop Begins

Special industry guest speakers, experiments and internet activities conducted throughout the day.

Formation
: Are fossil fuels renewable or non-renewable?

Experiments show how the earth “cooked” (heat and pressure) ancient plant
and animal life to create fossil fuels. Create info graphics about geologic
time and the rock cycle.

Migrating & Trapping
: Is crude oil and natural gas found in large lakes underneath the earth’s surface?

Experiments show how crude oil and natural gas are trapped in porous rocks.

Create 2D and 3D rock models to demonstrate porosity and permeability.

Exploration
: How do we find these valuable fossil fuels?

Use contour mapping to look below the earth’s surface and “see” rock formations. Create models and
calibrate measurements using blank grids.

Drilling & Well Stimulation
: How do we recover crude oil and natural gas?

Use engineering design to create two models: a weight-bearing derrick and a
working oil well applying principles related to porosity, permeability and
flow of fluids to the surface.

Producing
: What happens to crude oil and natural gas once it is produced? How is it transported?

Create a model pipeline and pipeline “pig” and apply principles of force,
motion, velocity and engineering design.

Refining
: How are crude oil and natural gas liquids (NGLs) transformed into useful products?
Use the chemistry distillation procedure to demonstrate the refining process. Follow lab safety
procedures, collect data and understand the industry applications.

Products
: What other products besides transportation fuels are made from crude oil?

Explore a few of the 6,000 petroleum-based products. Design and implement a materials test for
different petrochemical-based fabrics.

4:30 PM - Adjourn

6:00 PM - Join us for a relaxing social gathering.

Great time to network with other educators and industry representatives!

DAY TWO OF WORKSHOP

8:30 AM - Hands-On Activities / Ashland University Graduate Credit Session

10:00 AM - Oilfield Tour
Transportation and lunch will be provided

IMPORTANT! Hard hats will be provided for all teachers, however, please wear sturdy boots or
shoes--absolutely NO open toe shoes, sandals or flip-flops will be permitted.

4:30 PM - Return

ATTENTION:
All teachers MUST attend the Teacher Workshop prior to attending the social gathering
or field trip. Certificates will be presented at the conclusion of the events





 

cali

(114,904 posts)
11. Seriously?
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:41 PM
Feb 2014

what you posted really doesn't present much info at all, but the larger point is that the information being presented is being presented by entities that have a vested interest in providing one side of the debate because their goal is to make money. period.

this is such a no brainer.

angrychair

(8,680 posts)
12. wow
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:44 PM
Feb 2014

Because, fracking and drilling is NOTHING like sticking a straw in a pastry and sucking the cream. Why? First and foremost, its not that simple. Why? Because after i suck the cream out i dont then poop down the straw and fill the void in the pastry with my waste.Because sucking the cream out of a pastry doesn't cause earthquakes or cause tap water to catch on fire. These seminars are the pretty side of it and gloss of the details that matter. There is NOTHING clean about fracking. Did you realize that fracking and tar sands were discarded as viable options when they first started doing it due to expense relative to the price of oil and the environmental impact cost? These types of extraction are considered "the last page in the manual" for viable fossil fuel sources.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
14. New Study Finds Worrisome Pattern of Birth Defects in Fracking Communities
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:51 PM
Feb 2014

but yay fracking, right? and yay for the industry infiltrating the classroom, right? after all President Obama supports it, so it must be just fab, right?

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mrotkinellman/new_study_finds_worrisome_patt.html

fracking as it is practiced is NOT safe. Period.

http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-119078/report-fracking-fails-to-recycle-huge-12040263/

there is so much legitimate evidence backing up the claim that fracking is harmful.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
19. Way to misinterpret. Nobody said hydraulic fracturing is fun and great.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:01 PM
Feb 2014

All I said is that we should arm teachers with facts and not fears.

Teaching them the process allows them to ask INTELLIGENT questions instead of looking like fools if they encounter someone in the industry.

That you should suggest that my support for educational materials is somehow supportive of industry practices is ridiculous.

I don't really care for it, I'm big on solar and wind and think we should scale down by 90% our extraction levels, ASAP, with an eye toward only using fossil fuels for a limited number of products and medicines, but never as fuel.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
20. having the industry give workshops is counter to your desire to see teachers armed
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:02 PM
Feb 2014

with facts.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
22. Put up or shut up. Show me where there is a lie in the content or just back the hell off.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:05 PM
Feb 2014

I call bullshit on your ridiculous assertion that if it comes from an industry representative it's automatically suspect.

Unless you have some proof then you're just pissing in the wind and using fear and doubt as bludgeons.

Seriously.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
25. Seriously, NO. You're wrong on this.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:09 PM
Feb 2014

Let me specify: I don't believe that all information that comes from any industry representative is automatically suspect.

I do believe that having the drilling industry, which benefits from a very controversial practice, running workshops for teachers is a HUGE conflict of interest.

As I said it's a no brainer. And it's appalling that someone who is an educator and a liberal has no problem with it.

I won't back off.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
26. The medical industry, law enforcement sector, Bar Association, construction industry, all of them...
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:34 PM
Feb 2014

support educators by providing workshops.

We won't find common ground on this, but if a teacher wants to learn about extraction processes, then who do you suppose should conduct the educational workshops?

Do you have an alternative training program you can recommend?

Do you not trust the teachers themselves to be good judges of propaganda and bias?

Do you not trust a 16 year old program, not trust the Science Education Council of Ohio???

The Science Education Council of Ohio, the organizer of last week’s conference, invites the energy education program to present for the same reasons that it invites, for example, the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency to talk about sustainability and Metro Parks to talk about ecosystems, said Mike Hickey, the council’s executive director.

“It’s important for teachers to be up to speed on what’s going on scientifically in the world and relate that to students,” Hickey said.

And teachers use their best judgment when bringing the information from the program to students, said Spohler, the Madison-Plains teacher who was impressed with the workshop. He also said this afterward: “I don’t think we know enough about fracking to do it.”


Well, I trust them; I trust the teachers and the council, and I trust the students above all.

This sounds like a solid training made available to teachers and they don't have to attend if they don't want to.

But it's not sick and it's not disturbing.

It's education with the assistance from a legitimate and legal industry which, while never perfect, is one upon which YOU depend.

Knee-jerk reaction without a whit of proof of anything misleading in the program is worrisome.

 

badtoworse

(5,957 posts)
24. That is a real problem and not just with fracking
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:07 PM
Feb 2014

You would think science is objective, but from what I see, it isn't. Issues like this are highly politicized and you need to hear a variety of viewpoints and draw your own conclusions. Industry is biased, but so are organizations like NRDC and the Sierra Club.

How would you arm teachers with unbiased information?

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
27. The better industry funded educational programs are vetted.
Fri Feb 7, 2014, 07:23 PM
Feb 2014

As you indicate, however, some may not be and bias isn't exclusively the domain of the industry side of things.

Sometimes, curriculum is prepared in collaboration with public agencies and universities, and these seem to be more trustworthy.

I'm not familiar with the particular program in the OP, but I am with many others, most of which are objective.

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