Post-Snowden, Why Were U.S. Diplomats Talking On Insecure Line?

[Purveyor]

BERLIN — Not long before Assistant U.S. Secretary of State Victoria Nuland was secretly recorded cursing the European Union’s efforts in Ukraine, two European Union officials were caught in a very similar situation, complaining about the United States.

In the first recorded conversation, EU diplomat Helga Schmid was speaking to the EU’s ambassador to Ukraine, Jan Tombinski, discussing perceived slights.

“The Americans are going around telling people we’re too weak, while they are tougher on sanctions,” Schmid can be heard saying. “It really bothers us that the Americans are going around naming and shaming us.”

But what matters more than the content of the calls – in hers, Nuland was recorded saying “F--- the EU” – is the context: Both calls were made by senior diplomats in Kiev, both were discussing the crisis there, both were recorded and both audio recordings were anonymously put up on YouTube.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/07/4806031/post-snowden-why-were-us-diplomats.html#storylink=cpy

[riderinthestorm]

1. Because for the longest time only Americans were spying on their allies

and that was okay doncha know because they're terrorists... er, allies so that's okay... or something.

See nobody else is supposed to be spying on us.

[frylock]

2. seems to be the prevailing attitude

[Thinkingabout]

3. What do you mean about unsecured lines?

[riderinthestorm]

5. Unencrypted. Or a cell phone. Both easily tapped like we did with Merkel's

But its okay if the NSA does it to terrorists, er allies.

But it supposedly bad when it happens to our guys?

Whoops.

Tables are turned and obviously we don't like it one bit to be exposed with our despicable interference in Ukraine.

[Thinkingabout]

7. I dont think they exist.

Just as Snowden claimed he could get on any line to wire tap the line the same could happen anywhere anytime.

[riderinthestorm]

8. Uhm cell phones don't exist?

Or encrypted phones?

https://www.google.com/#q=encrypted+phones+for+sale

These are just what's on the open market. You don't think the State Department or intelligence agencies don't have encrypted phones/hardware that's more sophisticated?

And yes, I DO believe the NSA has the encryption technology and "back door" software installed to tape any line, any time they like.

You don't?

[Thinkingabout]

9. Follow the thread, go back to post #3. Secure lines do not exist if you believe what Snowden

Tells.

[riderinthestorm]

12. For the NSA there are no secure lines. So Americans get lazy about being tapped

because we're the only ones who "get" to do it or who have had the capability of doing it on that kind of massive scale. You do realize the NSA's extreme overreach is the POINT of Snowden's leaks right? There are no "secure" lines for the NSA but since noone else was spending the BILLIONS of dollars that we were, there's been some lag by other countries in doing it to us.

We get peeved when someone else does it to us, what we've been doing to them for years.

Clearly other countries are smart enough to figure out how to do it. The inference is that they weren't doing it because we're ALLIES or they didn't think it was important enough to spend that kind of money on it.

And now the shoe is on the other foot and we're exposed with our despicable interference in Ukraine. Other countries have caught on. The US is no friend. We don't consider our "allies" as friends. We spy on them.

So now they're spying back on us.

Blowback.

[Thinkingabout]

13. The police departments can ask for wire taps, it isn't just the NSA.

What do you think "chatter" means? If we communicate it can be recorded, doesn't matter what the source might be. It is naive to believe any communication can not be recorded. I would have hoped most knew this. Have you ever followed James Bond movies?

[riderinthestorm]

14. So the Chinese are just listening to Obama's convos right now!11!!!

You're basing your assumptions on movies??

Love it.

If you think ANY other intelligence agency has/had the capability of the NSA in recent times then go ahead and prove it.

And don't just give me movie links...

[Thinkingabout]

15. I happen to know what I am talking about. The movie thing is to relate spying has been

Going on for some time and not in the past few years. There are hackers everywhere.

[riderinthestorm]

16. Ok internet dude! I am sooo persuaded

[Pretzel_Warrior]

22. OUR despicable interference in Ukraine? wow. that is a naive statement

Ukraine is the "edge country" in a battle of influence of US and EU vs. Russia and it's ecosystem.

The U.S. is opposing Russian advances of influence in EU-zone areas just as they are opposing increasing belligerence of China toward Japan and other Asian allies.

Someone needs to wake up and smell the actual global geopolitical situation.

[Cha]

25. Pesky facts, PW.. that doesn't bother those

who knee jerk USA BAD RUSSIA GOOD.

[TheMathieu]

27. +1

God help us if someone simpletons like that support ever make it to the White House.

We'll be the laughing stock of the world.

[riderinthestorm]

34. Huh, so when did the US join the EU? Because Ukraine's dispute is about joining the EU or Russia

The US doesn't, and shouldn't, be meddling.

The US needs to dial down their interference in other countries. Full stop.

Its only earning us global condemnation and rightly so. Sorry if THAT "actual geopolitical situation" is too damn difficult for you to understand.

[Downwinder]

4. Security, who needs it, we're the man.

[KoKo]

11. Yep...unless a leak occurs that "WhoCouldaKnown" or a "Positioned Leak?"

Who Knows. It's bizarre she was so cocky in her language and daring to have the "possibility" that "FUCK YOU...EU" could get out there.

The Decorum of the State Department in the past Decades seems to have gone downhill.

What can we tell our Children about how to ACT in PUBLIC/PRIVATE as a Rep of the US?

JUST SAY "FUCK YOU!"

[Pretzel_Warrior]

23. are you joking? As pathetic as the language of Johnson and Nixon on their tapes, I have no problem

believing their staff and underlings were just as crude when the TV cameras weren't rolling.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Hubris aka American Exceptionalism

[KoKo]

10. I'll go with that and the Washington Bubble?

Still...how could they be so CLUELESS ...unless there's something else we didn't know. That her Message was Meant to be Leaked!

I can't find that a reason....but, then I'm not in the bowels of our State Department, NSA Intrigue that's going on in International Relations.

I'm a Citizen and pay their salaries...but, I'm just in the dark and only left with my consternation as to how and why this was leaked.

[reddread]

17. with all the bold, open hostility and derision of Russia and Putin?

They have really opened the bigotry spigot and are pouring it on hard right from the main faucet of US propaganda, CNN.
Never mind those poor oppressed gays in Russia, that aint the goal here, it never has been an issue of concern,
maybe one of useful distraction.
This is about sticking it to another major power in some very childish ways RIGHT DURING THE OLYMPICS.
Never mind the traditions the Olympics are meant to represent and uphold.
We abandoned those with the pretense of principals while supporting THE MOST BRUTAL of petroleum monarchies,
who sent terrorists and death to the US in 2001.
Lets stop swilling at the trough of gullibility (all of us, certainly not you) and STOP participating in nationalist, jingoistic
shit stirring for the sake of A BUNCH OF MISTAKE PRONE ASSHOLE FOOLS IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND GOVERNMENT!

[Joe Shlabotnik]

20. Bravo

[Luminous Animal]

21. +1

[stevenleser]

18. People make mistakes, that's why. This just proves how skilled FSB/GRU/SVR are, AND

how much they are engaging in global surveillance as well.

What's curious is why they decided to out their capabilities now.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

24. it is a display of power and prestige right along with the Olympics to tell the U.S...oh by the way

we learned WAY THE FUCK MORE from Snowden than we are letting on. tee hee hee. Spaseba

[stevenleser]

29. That is certainly one good hypothesis. It really seems like a mistake from my perspective

Russia basically validated our surveillance. If other folks are doing it as well, for us NOT to do it would put us at a strategic disadvantage.

[treestar]

19. Same reason they emailed each other about closing the bridge

Hubris. They think they can do whatever they want.

[malletgirl02]

33. +1

It is the hubris of being a bigwig. I bet a regular rank and file State Department employee would be more prudent when using government issue phones, because she knows someone might be listening either the State Department IT department checking on employees activities or an outside entity in this case.

[MADem]

26. I found it best to wear my STUIII key round my neck!

Now, I guess they use cards, but it would seem prudent to keep the thing handy on one's person....

Unless, of course--and this wouldn't surprise me at all--the Russians have cracked the secure telephone comms. Note how the article says "apparently" on an unsecured line...but who knows? If the line were secure, no one is going to say they cracked it. At least not until they figure out how bad the situation is!

I think the lower section of this story has some important points to make, as well:

There’s also little surprise at the sentiment she expressed, said Peter van Ham, a transatlantic relations expert at the Dutch research center the Clingendael Institute. She isn’t the only one who feels that way, he admitted.

“The EU doesn’t have a great track record on foreign and security matters,” he noted. “Europe has largely ignored Ukraine for six years.”

Then, discussing the content of the call, he laughed, while adding, “What does it say about your effectiveness if you’re being compared unfavorably to the U.N.?”

But he noted that in the Ukraine crisis, Europe – and therefore the EU – will have to be part of any Ukrainian solution that doesn’t see the nation move fully into the Russian camp.

Volker Perthes, the executive chairman of the German Institute for International and Security Affairs in Berlin, noted that before judging Nuland’s comments, it would be good to know whether she’d had enough sleep or a bit to drink, and that she has every right to expect privacy when speaking with a colleague.

“It establishes that, sure, others (not only the NSA) are listening in to telephone conversations,” he wrote in an email response. “But we knew that before, didn’t we?”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/07/4806031/post-snowden-why-were-us-diplomats.html#storylink=cpy

[randome]

28. Who really gives a fuck?

So someone expressed a personal opinion that some might see as unflattering. BFD. Does anyone think diplomats don't have personal opinions?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[malletgirl02]

30. Our Alies Do Care

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/germans-not-amused-by-nuland-gaffe/2014/02/07/66885a02-900d-11e3-878e-d76656564a01_story.html

[randome]

32. Of course countries need to react to stuff like this.

It happens occasionally. Sometimes it's the U.S. reacting to something stupid another country said. Sometimes it's like this incident.

It's foreign policy and gaffes and contretemps. There is a reason why foreign policy means next to nothing to the electorate.

People mostly don't care about stuff like this because it doesn't impact anyone in any meaningful way. It's part of the bureaucratic game-playing that goes on constantly. Most people don't have much interest in watching a chess match, either.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Boom Sound 416]

31. Because of the stress