RUN - HIDE - FIGHT - LOCKDOWN: Thank you gun advocates for helping create this situation.

[kpete]

- Over-reacting or just better prepared?

US children learn 'lockdown drill'
By Laura Trevelyan BBC News, New York

"Since Newtown, many schools have adopted safety plans. Metal detectors, surveillance cameras and fences have become a fact of life. ...All three of my children now practice safety drills - and the school is careful to let parents know in advance in case the topic comes up at home. ...One parent, echoing my own feelings, told me it breaks her heart to have her boisterous, talkative five-year-old learning how to hide from a gunman."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26085368

[gopiscrap]

1. No kidding, fucking gun nuts!

[onehandle]

2. Guns are part of the anchor pulling America to the bottom. nt

[Chorophyll]

3. +100

[BrotherIvan]

17. + a billion

It's part and parcel of the culture of fear and mistrust that is being used to control the populace and accept lower standards of living. All these people who think they are protecting their rights with a gun are not only stripping rights from everyone else, including children, they are are in fact deteriorating the fabric of community.

It is like gated communities: you don't have to fix the problem or participate to make your area better, you just have to build a big fence to shut it out. In the case of gun nuts, being a person who lives in the heart of what is considered a dangerous city, who walks dangerous places at night, I have no idea why this need for a gun at all times, especially in suburban places where it seems like a lot of gun fanciers live. The threat of being mugged or robbed is so low. The chances of being mugged or robbed at a time when you can get to your weapon first are probably about the same as winning the lottery.

And it is a false protection. As we have seen with stand your ground laws, the gun wielder actually seeks confrontation because they have a gun, rather than going to safety and calling the police, often creating the fatal encounter. As if that weren't bad enough. But for those who live in fear of break-ins or crazy drug addicts doing some home invasion, the statistics of which are so low, they have become so mistrustful of their fellow-citizens, they feel the need to carry a deadly weapon. And it stops there. No sense of fixing the problem, no sense of outreach to build safer communites, to create upward mobility which is the fastest way to erase poverty-based crime, no sense of creating drug programs or making benign drugs available as a way to keep out dangerous ones. Nope, I've got my gun, just like the bunkers of old, and so I'm "safe". When they are making themselves and us, less and less safe with each deadly weapon that is out on the street.

[MO_Moderate]

47. Um?

"I have no idea why this need for a gun at all times, especially in suburban places where it seems like a lot of gun fanciers live. The threat of being mugged or robbed is so low."

You do realize that what you are saying here is that the places with the most guns (gun fanciers) are also the places with the least crime?
Isn't that what the pro gun people claim?

[Squinch]

29. That is the most pithy statement of the problem I've ever seen.

[demigoddess]

40. + my family

guns had their place once but not now.

[Igel]

4. It's paranoia.

I personally think that they would be better served by an annual diet of "blood on the highway" movies with required attendance at mock-up crash sites where cell phones still in text-mode are present. The mock-up crash sites should include small children as victims of the irresponsible drivers.

The mock-up at a school would include as "mocked up victims" randomly chosen students from the school ... and neighboring elementary schools. So kids wouldn't have to just think, "That's a dummy, that can never happen to me or anybody I know."

This would provoke massive parental outrage. Probably lawsuits. But far more teens die of texting and driving or drinking and driving than mass shootings. And those teens probably kill more small children than mass shooters do.

Failing to have a strong intruder plan also provokes parental outrage. People really, really suck at probabilities and statistics. A few high-profile cases induces much more fear than commonplace deaths that we prefer to ignore.

It's how terrorism works.

Oddly, even after Newtown our annual lock-down drill *still* had kids who couldn't understand the simple instructions, "Be quiet and make sure you can't be seen from the window in the classroom door." Then again, at least half of the high-schoolers hadn't heard of "Newtown." None had heard of "Columbine."

[ffr]

5. I spent my whole day looking forward to a Graham cracker & milk

5 cents. Then we got to either nap or play outside. Our safety drill was for fires and those were cool. I always liked the scent of grass or flowers in the air when we marched orderly outside.

[PosterChild]

24. Ever do duck and cover?

Under the desks, kids! That's going to save you from the blast and subsequent radiation.

[catrose]

36. I remember eom

[ffr]

44. I don't remember doing that one, but I remember seeing it on TV.

Looking back on that time period, I think we were all pretty sheltered from Cold War realities. We knew it was there, but didn't understand it fully and didn't live in fear. Seriously. The worst I remember having it was when I accidentally punched one of the class bullies and he clocked me back. Seemingly worse was the fear of minority gangs, but that never really materialized at school.

[PosterChild]

46. At the time I lived...

...close to a "strategic location" - an Air Force Base - that was expected to be targeted during an nuclear exchange. We once got a pamphlet in school (grade school) with an area map and "circles of destruction", Zone 0, Zone 1, etc., and a key the explained how much destruction and what percentage of lost life in each zone!

Wish I kept it, it would be quite a collectors item now!

[kickysnana]

6. It is robbing everyone of their happiness and feeling secure.

http://hbispace.com/printStory/kaal/index.cfm?id=3315781

[Mojorabbit]

7. We have always had drills in schools

ie when I grew up during the cold war it was nuc drills (duck and cover)and then in the 70's and 80's bomb drills, now gun drills. We did not have metal detectors or cops on campus though nor huge walls surrounding the campuses. I was passing a school this week and noted how much it resembled a prison on the outside. The process of making students accustomed to being searched and monitored is complete IMO. It is very sad.

[zeemike]

15. Yep this generation is being conditioned to a police state.

And it is a sad thing to see...I never imagined I would see it in my lifetime, but fear works to keep the sheeple in the pen for fear of the wolves.

[demigoddess]

41. we didn't, we always lived near a base

we knew we would be goners before we ever heard the alarm.

[appal_jack]

8. Right. Just like everyone who owns a pack of matches or a lighter...

Right. Just like everyone who owns a pack of matches or a lighter is collectively to blame for the actions and damage by a few criminal arsonists.

I am sick of the weak-sauce, collective-guilt, nanny-state bullshit promulgated by people here who would prefer that the Second Amendment did not exist. Sorry. It's in our Constitution, and the gun-grabbers lack the votes and political movement to change that.

kpete, you are against gun massacres. I am against gun massacres. We are both Democrats. We could, and should, be very much on the same page about policy proposals that actually target violent criminals and unstable psychopaths. But instead you (plural - i.e.- Democrats who seek to blame the gun instead of the criminal or the crime) seem fixated on a flimsy narrative that alienates as many gun-owning Democrats and Independents as possible. This strategy is doomed to failure.

Try again my friend.

-app

[Paladin]

10. "Nanny-state" and "gun-grabbers": Huge dog whistles.

You're not fooling anybody.

[appal_jack]

16. Argue the issue & facts or admit you've got nothing.

Argue the issue & facts or admit you've got nothing, Paladin. This is not a game of "No true Scotsman." If you want to reduce senseless massacres as much as I do, a true plurality needs to be assembled. I'm saying that among that plurality you will need Democrats, Independents, and yes, some fraction of the Republicans out there who might still have a lick of sense and compassion, all who believe in the settled Constitutional issue in favor of the individual ownership of firearms.

You can play "Purity Ball" if you'd like, but that will accomplish nothing except drive more of the people who believe in individual rights into the Republican Party. I don't want that. Do you?

-app

[Paladin]

26. Hey, I'm not the one using right-wing buzz phrases on a Democratic site.

There's no plurality to be had on this issue, at this point. There won't be, for many more school massacres to come. And you've been around long enough to know that I'm one of the "sensible" ones---somebody who has owned firearms for more than 50 years, someone who has never questioned the ultimate issue of individual firearms ownership or legitimate claims of self-defense. I'm the guy you people ought to be seeking out for this "plurality" thing you're talking about. And I'm telling you that I'm no longer interested.

[A Simple Game]

20. "You're not fooling anybody." What's worse is they aren't helping anybody either. n/t

[PosterChild]

30. Violent criminals and unstable psychopaths?

Guns are a general-purpose, all round threat to public safety. You don't have to be a violent criminal or an unstable psychopath to harm and kill others with a gun. You just have to be a responsible gun owner checking in at a gun show to shoot the ear off one of your fellow responsible gun owners. Or a state official responsibly unloading her gun to discharge it in the state house. Or have low tolerance for loud music.

Guns are an attractive nuisance and a public safety hazard.

[otohara]

35. You Forgot The Spoon/Fork Defense

that's my favorite.

Keep in mind, your guns are terrifying to many of us. I use to worry about my son when he was young and spending the night at a friends home. Many times he would call me at 2AM wanting to come home because he couldn't sleep. I was terrified the home owner might think there was an intruder in the home and shoot him. So I'd tell him, go back to the bedroom - be quite, wait for me, then run.

Then there was the time I found him at the new neighbors house with their two son's oogling a pile of guns on a table when I peeked through the window. Boys, doesn't matter what kind of training they've had, or not. If they see a real gun, their first instinct is to pull the trigger.

Now I tell people with small ones to ask if there are guns in the home, if so - don't let your children go to that home. I tell my son's girlfriends to stay away from men with guns - because we know how most women die by the gun and it's from their SO.

The founding fathers didn't anticipate Bushmasters and magazines designed to kill many like in my home town movie theater. You will never convince me this is what they envisioned. An America where sending your kids to school is a constant worry.

[valerief]

9. Hey, lady, what's more important--your 5-year-old's well-being or some SYG asshole's ferdom?

In the U.S., it's the latter.

[Iggo]

27. Guns are more important than people.

[Taitertots]

11. The problem is people crapping the bed over rights that have existed for 200+ years

Guns are less powerful and less available than they have been for almost 100 years.

The societal problems faced today are not caused by policies that haven't changed in since before we were born.

[bucolic_frolic]

12. I remember 1960s DUCK & COVER Drills

Either kneel down under your desk and cover your head and ears with your hands

or into the hallways and lineup along the wall, same position

The Cold War was a mushroom cloud on TV

The Gun War can happen anytime, anywhere

[The Straight Story]

13. 'gun advocates' is that like 'abortion advocates' or are both about being 'freedom advovcates'

Cause I try to be consistent across the board on things.

When we let the less than one percent dictate to us how we treat the other ninety-nine percent that is just a bad road to be on no matter the topic. I don't need a big daddy to run my life or my choices. We fear a very few people and what they might do so much we are gladly giving away our freedoms and rights. From the first to the fourth and more we are just willy nilly begging a few old white dudes in power to limit our freedoms to protect us from the scary boogeymen (and boogeywomen, don't want to be accused of being sexist).

If I owned a gun maybe people could get away with using 'gun advocate' - but I don't, and I am a freedom advocate. Something I thought hippies and fellow progressives were as well.

Having choices - from abortion to who to marry to home school to own something. I like choices and being 'allowed' to have them and I want others to have the same choices I do.

[proudretiredvet]

31. I'm pretty new here but not new to our country or the issues.

There are tens of millions of proud democrat gun owners. I read what some in here think of gun owners and the insults, insinuations, and accusations they make about anyone and everyone who owns and or carries a firearm. Two things come into the light instantly and clearly.

First, you are talking about many tens of millions of your own when you degrade them and imply that they are just latent Killers. I'm sure they love you for that.

Second, you need their votes to maintain control of the senate and the white house. Are you willing to alienate those votes and resend political control in DC because you do not agree with others who are simply engaged in legal activity that is also one of their constitutional rights? Like it or not the courts have found that the second amendment is an individual right. Just because you do not agree does not change that fact.

[liberal_at_heart]

38. have you ever sent your kid to school knowing there was currently a threat of a mass

shooting at the school? Have you ever sent your kid to school knowing there was a chance they may not come home that day? I'm not saying no one should have a gun, but the fact that reasonable gun control measures never get passed especially when the majority of the country approve of them says something about how messed up this country is.

[proudretiredvet]

43. I stay pretty current on known threats.

My wife is a teacher so it is not just my kid that I am concerned about. I also teach part time so I assess threats from inside the classroom as well.
I am totally in support of everyone and anyone who buys a firearm, private or from a store, having a background check.
I do support the rights of good citizens to own firearms. I do not buy into some of the ideas that gun ignorant people come up with about guns.
Several months out of each year we live in an area where LEO response is measured in hours not minutes. If I do not take the responsibility to protect my family no one will. In that more isolated world everyone is armed. There are no murders up there and very little property crimes or theft. There are very few people there too.
What I'm trying to get to with this is that there are many different views to the gun question. There is not "an American Culture." There are many different cultures in our nation. One answer is not going to fit the needs of everyone in this.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. The rest of the world thnks we are fucking nutz.

[kpete]

18. sadly

we are

[etherealtruth]

19. Likely

... because "we" are (at least on this issue, healthcare, capitol punishment ...)

[Iggo]

28. And they're right.

[proudretiredvet]

33. It may be true that the rest of the world thinks we are nuts.

Should we just go with what they say?

The foreign observers of our elections have indicated that we trust our voters way too much. They think we are nuts because we do not have mandatory voter ID laws. Should we go with what they think there too?

I believe that we are our own nation, governed by our own constitution and our own laws. I'm happy with that.

[PowerToThePeople]

21. Rescind the 2nd. n/t

[napkinz]

22. GUNS GUNS GUNS!

Last edited Sun Feb 9, 2014, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

[spanone]

32. k&r...

[Cairycat]

23. My school district had a mandatory meeting about this

Everyone had to attend - teachers, administrators, lunch ladies, janitors, paras - several hundred people. Think of how much that cost.

I suppose gun terrorism has always been possible, with rifles or pistols - but assault weapons and huge magazines of ammo make it much more possible, much more deadly, and probably much more likely.

[otohara]

42. Two Years After Columbine

my son attended Littleton HS which is in the same district as Arapahoe and not too far from Columbine. I didn't worry so much because I thought the horror of Columbine was an anomaly and one time thing.

Now look what has happened - school shootings every other week - it has to be because there are so many guns in homes. We didn't sit around and plot the death of our peers when I was a kid because there weren't 300 million guns.

Good for your school, but how sad for the kids to have gun drills every so often. I wouldn't let my kid into a home with a gun now unless I knew it they were locked up...even then, it would depend on the parent(s).

[napkinz]

25. we should look to Australia ...

[liberal_at_heart]

37. It is sad to see but it is something the kids become accustomed to.

My daughter's school even had a legitimate threat against it. They closed the school for one day, and made attendance voluntary the second and third day. My daughter was scared. She stayed home for one day. They had extra police. The kids were allowed to go talk to counselors if they wanted. The teachers were on high alter out in the hallways during passing periods. It was about a week before they got the kid who made the threat. Now two years later, my daughter goes about her business as if nothing was ever wrong. She goes to school. She laughs with her friends. She does what all of us do. Go out into the world not expecting anything to happen, but knowing anything is possible and not taking a second of life for granted. It is a sad, sad world we live in. Be sure to hug your kids and tell them you love every single time they or you walk out the door. Whether it is a car crash or a shooting, anything can happen at anytime. Life is too short.

[LWolf]

39. While we aren't doing drills,

our district's staff IS undergoing mandatory "training" for how to deal with these situations.

At a recent meeting, we were shown a video simulation of possible responses. We were told that, while the footage of students being shot was graphic, it "wasn't real," and was very short; that most of the video would focus on how teachers and students should respond.

Right. They showed the shooting scene repeatedly, with variations for every possible response. I wanted to throw up right there on the presenter's feet.

I'm not sure why they couldn't go over the list of encouraged responses without making a pretend video of students being shot, and making us, a captive audience, view it repeatedly.

[neverforget]

45. My 9 year old daughter now has "active shooter drills" along with earthquake and fire

drills. USA! USA! USA!