General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOver 90% of Germans speak English. What foreign language do you speak?
Source for statistic:
http://www.ask.com/question/what-percentage-of-people-in-germany-speak-english
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)even though I was born in the US. I went to Estonian Saturday school in NJ for about 10 years.
I learned English when I started public school.
gopiscrap
(23,733 posts)some French (lived in France) some Cantonese (taught in Hong Kong) a few Urdu words lived in Pakistan for a short while some Italian because of singing and some Latin because of being a Roman Catholic and also because of singing.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)They sure did not seem to when I visited Germany.
I think that 90% is probably padded and some of them "speak" Englisch in the same way that I speak German. Nur ein bisschen.
I had four years of high school German about 150 years ago, and at this point I probably know more Bengali than I do German.
I also, ironically enough, know how to say Lociento, no habla Espanyol.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)All the air traffic controllers I worked with spoke perfect English, as did the people my age that I encountered. But my older landlord and his wife didn't speak much. Fortunately their daughter did. And I spoke a little German myself. Still do.
gopiscrap
(23,733 posts)my mom's generation not so much and my grandparents just a very fun absolute necessary words such as yes no please thank you hello good bye. My great grand parents refused to even learn those.
wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)But with under 40s, particularly in the west, they all started English at 9 or 10 (often before if they have ambitious parents) and had to study it until 15 or 16. If they went to college, they'll have had at least 12 years of English- nicht nur ein bisschen. I did a student exchange to a gymnasium (college track high school) when I was 16 and they had all of their classes in English including math and physics. It wasn't a special English school either.
Most Germans I met there and later on in this or that job spoke reasonably fluent English.
MADem
(135,425 posts)In the old days, it would be like most Americans spoke French.
They get it in school, they learn phrases from popular culture, they know a word or fifty, or even a hundred or two, but they don't really "speak" it.
Ha--I knew what you meant when you were trying to say when you wrote your version of "lo siento, no hablo español"--Spanish is a real "soundex" language!!!
I know quite a few languages...but I speak them badly. Give me a few weeks "in country" and it comes back, though. I can get around like those Germans who kinda speak English.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)They learn it in school and begin quite young. I suppose that people have different interests and maybe even capacities for learning language. I found it to be easy. But then, other fields are just out of reach for me. Chemistry for instance. I can write a paper about some aspect of chemistry. But as soon as the writing is done, I am back to square one in terms of what I really know about it. It's like one big mystery to me. I did not have good basic courses in grade and high school science. But I had wonderful teachers for language and literature.
So whether we speak languages or are better at other things depends to some extent on an accident of fate.
My father loved language and learned to read in several. When he died he was still taking a course in Greek from a Catholic priest so that he could read the original Bible text. Now that is far more love of language than I could ever hope to muster.
MADem
(135,425 posts)When I was there, though, I had better luck using French to get by than English, and my best bet was to resort to Ye Olde Phrasebook.
I have the ability to pick up a language quickly and then dump it out of my memory banks, retaining only the odd expression here and there. I have a good ear and people tend to believe I understand more than I do because I am a decent mimic.
I didn't interact with a lot of youngsters, though, and there has been an entire new generation grown up since I've last visited.
I still think the ninety percent estimate is a bit high!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)even though we were living in Europe because my husband is a language teacher and was teaching English as a Second Language at that time.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Even though, sadly, it's "Baby baby baby Ohhhhh" or something moronic like that, just as though everyone in the world can say hello and goodbye in half a dozen languages, if they think about it.
The world is getting smaller and we're getting closer--so I suppose it's a good thing that we're learning to speak with one another. And these language translators on the computer, they really do help--it's like having an interpreter along for the ride (so long as you keep it fairly simple, anyway). What I wouldn't have given for one of those back in the day--I had to make do with dictionaries, phrase books, a bit of memorization and a lotta flipping, at least at the outset!
eridani
(51,907 posts)If you want English, you have to ask for it. In smaller countries like Denmark and the Netherlands, if you look like a tourist people will initiate conversations in English. A Danish conductor I ran into listened to the conversations of passengers and, when asking for tickets, addressed them in the language he heard--I think there were 10 or so.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)either I looked like a German or people didn't care to talk to an American.
Although when I got lost in Konstanz and asked for directions to the Bahnhof, this girl started babbling things and then noticed that I looked completely confused and said, in English, "you don't speak German, do you?"
I also didn't think I was THAT lost. I expected it would just be three blocks and a left or something. But really all I needed to find was the Bodensee and I could have found the Bahnhof from there.
So that was nice to find an English speaker, and the guy at the hotel in Burbach also spoke English, but the lady at the first hotel didn't seem to, and at the store or the train station, I really didn't need it. There is no German word for Coke, or English word for Amsterdam or Siegen.
I did find it funny that I saw many American "stop" signs in Germany.
DFW
(54,325 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Tikki
phylny
(8,375 posts)Yo aprendí en la escuela secundaria y la universidad. Me gustaría ser más fluido. Y, le di todos mis corazones a extraños que no tenían ninguna
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)I read it better than I speak it, however I can converse flutenly enough.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I read it much better than I speak it.
monmouth3
(3,871 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)DonViejo
(60,536 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)DonViejo
(60,536 posts)When I was living in Puerto Rico I would be speaking in Spanish with friends and sometimes mix the two languages together, Spanish and Thai. My friends would look at me as if to say, or come right out and say, "Don Viejo! WTH are you talking about?" I have Multiple Sclerosis, I knew my MS induced fatigue level was high whenever I began mixing the languages together. lol. It was embarrassing at times but provided for some good laughs.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I would speak better Spanish, but no. I know LOTS of Spanish words and can usually understand when being spoken to in Spanish, but speaking it? When I try to string together words in Spanish I end up with that special, Peggy-Hill kinda Spanish and I get a, "What the HELL is she trying to say?" reaction. Thank the goddess for iTranslator.
Seriously, good for you for speaking 3 languages.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)neighborhood for many years, but my spoken Spanish is almost not there. I understand it. I just don't have the courage to try to speak it what with so many fluent Spanish-speakers around me.
I guess the secret is just making a fool of yourself.
It's so great to see how many DUers know at least one foreign language.
phylny
(8,375 posts)In my experience, people are pleased you're making an attempt to speak Spanish with them and are very forgiving. In addition, they're helpful when I say, "No sé la palabra en español ...."
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)DonViejo
(60,536 posts)if I'm lucky, I'm able to just wave my hand a little and friends know, "Don can't speak right now." It's a royal pain in the ass. More often than not though, the fatigue gets so high I cannot even use the keyboard.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 10, 2014, 01:24 PM - Edit history (1)
When I find the words I can't arrange them or output them to the larynx. Don't have that problem with song lyrics that are memorized formatted. With a keyboard I can throw a bunch of words on the screen and then arrange them in a somewhat logical order.
Stress seems to be as much a factor as fatigue
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I'm conversant in both.
CurtEastPoint
(18,634 posts)I was a language major and later taught HS French and Spanish. It's been a looooong time but I still can do OK when I travel. I was pleasantly surprised that when I went to Portugal I could understand written Portuguese pretty well (I did study it for one year in college) but as far as spoken? Yikes!
Even as 'worldly' as I consider myself, when I was in Denmark, on a train, chatting w/a young couple, I remarked that I was so grateful that English is so widely spoken and the man said, 'We are only five million people. If we want to talk to anyone else, it must be in English.' Color me DUH!
When I saw in Sweden last year for work, I noticed the same thing. I have learned to be respectful of languages and a couple and I were looking at a display in a window and I wanted to ask them the origin of the artwork and I said, 'Excuse me, do you speak English?' and the guy looked at me with an expression of wonderment at my stupidity (in a nice way!) and said 'Of course.' Which made me laugh and he did, too.
We in the US are fortunate that English is so widely accepted as 'the' universal language, but knowing other languages is SO helpful in many ways.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Someone who speaks two languages is called "bi-lingual" ...
Someone who speaks only one language is called "American".
On edit: a little Spanish and a little Tagalog, but basically just English, which is a foreign language!!!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The good thing is that if you know a foreign language, you can read the newspapers of the countries that speak those languages online.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I have broken some LBN on DU by the help of Google Translator.
Neoma
(10,039 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)However, most native English speakers never develop facility with another language that is as good as the English of people you meet.
Learning to read Chinese would probably be the most useful foreign language study for native English speakers. This would make accessible a very large number of publications in Chinese, and Chinese characters are also used in Korea and Japan.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)language. You are right about Chinese. I tried to get into a Chinese language program years ago before 1973, but I wasn't chosen. In Los Angeles, there are a lot of people who speak Chinese including a couple of my good friends who were born there and came to this country in their childhood. I also have a neighbor who translates Chinese/English for a living, and my next-door-neighbors on one side are from Korea. They speak just enough English to get by. There is a Korean district in Los Angeles just a few miles West of the downtown area.
Chinese would be a good language to learn but the grammar and writing would be hard I think.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)much easier than Japanese grammar.
Chinese words have no inflections, and the word order is subject-verb-object.
Japanese words have tons of inflections, levels of politeness, and different semantic structures than English*, and the word order is subject-object-verb.
*For example, three different ways to say "if"
1. "If and only if"
2. "If and when"
3. "If and always if"
oldhippie
(3,249 posts).... Chinese is in fact a tonal language. Mandarin has four tonal "contours" for many, if not most, syllables. But they do not affect grammar as far as I know. I never formally studied Mandarin or Taiwanese, but I met my wife and got married in Taipei, Taiwan and lived there for several years. I picked up a little of the language, but not enough to really communicate. ( I was away from the island and somewhere else for large parts of those years I supposedly lived there.) My wife's family chuckled every time I called my mother-in-law *horse* or *fish* instead of *mom*, depending on how badly I mangled the tone.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)12-13 hours of my day is spent doing something relating to work (commuting to and from, running systems, getting dressed, etc). The rest is spent trying to semi-successfully get my house in order, make dinner, spend quality time with the family or sleep.
Here's another thing . . . does anyone in the free world have a system that will make me fluent without years and years of repetition-based busywork? I don't want to just be able to say "What time does the Metro arrive?", I want to be able to SPEAK and understand the language. From what I'm reading about Rosetta Stone, even five volumes of that won't make you fluent; kind of disappointing considering the money being spent on such a highly recommended system.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Maybe singing along you could learn some. Reading in the language can develop vocabulary. It's tiresome to look the same words up over and over, and you begin to catch on. But you have hear it too. I sang in Italian, and the language is phonetic at least much more so than English so you can catch on if you read and try to pronounce the words.
Italian has such a wonderful sound. I guess that is why it is a language in which the music is so melodic. I have a theory which may be totally wrong, but still, it is that the music of a country or people tends to imitate or be based upon the language. Italian is so melodious because it is a vowel-driven language. German is consonant, guttural consonant driven, so we get Beethoven with his big chords and rhythms. Of course, Verdi used big chords and percussion for effect, but more for explosive dramatic effect. And that is like Italian if you listen to it spoken. That is just my theory.
Mozart is very Austrian in feeling. While Austrians speak German, they speak it in a more melodious way. Could that be because Austria lies between Germany and Italy? I don't know but it is another of my crazy theories.
If you listen to French classical music you hear the flow of the language. In my view it is not as musical as is Italian and not at all as rhythmic (maybe bombastic would be a better word) as German. I really love hearing and speaking German because I think it is such a funny language. That is especially true of Austrian. Austrians speak in a sing-song very often. It's really funny and then it is mixed in with those rhythmic, guttural sounds. Hilarious at times.
English -- well I think that jazz is the music that most sounds like American English. The African-American origins of jazz are of course evident. But I think it is interesting that, at least in my view, that is what freed our music from the European music that is based on the European languages and grew out of them. Jazz really fits American speech. And the British rock music of the 60s in my view borrowed from the jazz and blues music which then freed British music and permitted the pop musicians to express their own linguistic heritage in music.
But I am just talking about my impressions and it may interest no one.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)Not sur how I ended up half way through the thread ....
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I took singing lessons and learned mostly Italian and French, a bit of German. Italian really is the best to sing in!!!
Took Spanish and Latin in high school. I can speak some complete sentences in Spanish from living in Texas and absorbing some. And I can sing "Estrellita".
l love Romance languages b/c they are so logical.
You know the declension by the middle vowel in the verb, and the ending tells you the person. No pronouns needed!!
In Latin you have 5 declensions--a, e, i, io, eo. In Italian you have 3--a, e, i.
And you can put subject-object-verb together which is used in older forms of English, like the Book of Common Prayer. With this ring I thee wed, with my body I thee worship.
In English word order is important because you don't have many forms of words, and even then it's easy to get confused in pronouns.
Started a once a month group to learn Chinese after I bought a book of characters. I got as far as "ni hao" which is "hello".
German absolutely baffles me even though English is a Germanic language. I eventually realized that there are German words from Latin.
Fenestra, window in Latin. Finster, window in German.
Speculum, mirror in Latin. Spiegel, mirror in German (like the newspaper Der Spiegel.)
My kid was impressed when I told her that pandaemonium is Greek for "wall to wall demons" and defenestrate means to throw someone out a window, from fenestra.
I picked up a lot of Greek prefixes and suffixes studying medical terminology and a bit of it is Latin. When I have sinus trouble I call it "crudosis".
newfie11
(8,159 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,287 posts)Got the kana down pat and currently trying to learn the kanji.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,287 posts)Wish me 幸い luck
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)Just learning kanji won't teach you how to speak, because the grammar is very different from English.
LostOne4Ever
(9,287 posts)I have a bunch of anime dvds I plan to use to help me with the spoken language, and even found a nice free Japanese grammar website to help me learn on the web.
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
My plan is that once im done studying the radicals I will learn both the Kanji and vocabulary at the same time so that I can learn to speak and read at about the same time.
Though I have to admit having a love for the artistry of Japanese Calligraphy which is part of the reason Im working on the Kanji radicals atm.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)It's one of the books I used when I was learning Kanji. When I got a little more versed in the language, I also used a Kanji book that was written for Japanese elementary school kids.
http://www.how-to-learn-japanese.com/japanese_kanji_dictionary.html
LostOne4Ever
(9,287 posts)I actually got that book and have even prepared the little quiz card it suggests. I planned to move on to it once I finished studying the Japanese version of the kanji radicals.
I also got this which I am quite fond of:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O2S9VQ/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It is actually for the Japanese who are studying English. You can draw in the kanji and it will tell you the English word and it's kana pronunciation.
I am also using these websites:
http://jisho.org/
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)You've got a Rakuhiki Kanji dictionary, a Genius English-Japanese/Japanese-English dictionary, and a Meikyou Japanese dictionary all in one package. With that and O'Neill's Kanji book, you're all set up!
While I don't have anything that I can write a Kanji character on to find its meaning and pronunciation, I do have my Mac OS set up so that I can copy an unknown Kanji character from, say, an on-line newspaper article and paste it into a built-in EJ-JE dictionary to find its meaning, or use the built-in Kanji dictionary to look up an unknown character that is not on the computer-- as long as I know the radical, and how many non-radical strokes the character has. Google Translate can also be helpful in identifying unknown Kanji characters, although it's not very good at translating Japanese sentences.
Lost_Count
(555 posts)The wife, who is German, speaks German, English (better than I do), French (also better than mine), Italian and a little Latin...
She's going for Spanish next now that she is in the states. I think she is just a showoff...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)young and view learning as their job, they learn additional languages more easily later on.
I heard a lot of Dutch in my family when I was very young. I think that made it easier for me to learn languages.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)The Hebrew I mostly picked up from the people I used to work with, though it's probably more accurate to say "I know and can understand some phrases" than I "speak it".
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)TheOther95Percent
(1,035 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)That's the first lesson!
Then you conjugate
hunter
(38,309 posts)My kids' Spanish is not well practiced because they don't use it daily in school or work. My wife does.
My high school Spanish and college German are decades poorly practiced.
In our city about 40% of families don't speak English at home. The second most common language is Spanish.
Whenever I'm out in the community bilingual people generally take one look at me and speak English. With my wife it can go either way.
I love living in and visiting places where I hear multiple languages being spoken.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)"I love living in and visiting places where I hear multiple languages being spoken."
In Los Angeles, I get to live at home where English is theoretically the primary language, but our city is so cosmopolitan that you hear lots of languages if you even just go shopping.
Cairycat
(1,705 posts)that was a button I had in college.
One big reason why so few people here know another language besides English is that we don't teach other languages early enough. It's much harder to become fluent if you learn a language after adolescence. Languages are often considered an educational frill, not something necessary.
I speak German and French, neither as well as I'd like. One thing learning those languages did, though, was teach me to become a better speaker and writer of English.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)NOT ONE YEAR
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And that is something everyone should understand better than I do.
My children studied science, and they make fun of the scientific theories that I think up to explain things i do not understand. They get an amused look on their faces and say, "But, mother!" And then they try to correct my ignorance. But I don't really have the basic education in science to be able to absorb and remember what they tell me. I am amazed when they rattle on about complicated sounding stuff. Just amazed.
So, I'm sure you have areas of expertise and knowledge that many others do not have.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Since moving to France, learning French (unfortunately too late in life to lose completely my anglophone accent) and becoming a translator, I've become much more exigent about well-written and well-spoken English.
I have always loved language, but I was less aware and exacting before I acquired a second one.
When you spend hours trying to translate a sloppily written French text into passable English, or vice versa, you come to have a great appreciation for well-crafted, precise language.
If a translated passage reads strangely, you can bet even money that the original was poorly written.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I had Latin and German in high school and attempted German in college. None of it stuck, other than some of the grammar rules and how to pronounce words in both. Use it or lose it. Nothing in my life back then (or now) was in either Latin or German, so I lost it.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Putting all that effort in to learn to speak to people who love practicing their English skills on me? Not my best move.
I should have taken Spanish in school instead. Even though it's more difficult it would have been infinitely more useful.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)----
treestar
(82,383 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)how ya goin,' ya big galah...?
HeiressofBickworth
(2,682 posts)P.S. I just watched the Australian tv series Cloudstreet. Loved it!! But I admit to getting lost in the language a few times. We supposedly all speak English, but the accents make it seem like a foreign language.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Spanish; can figure out basic meanings in reading Scandinavian, Slavic and Romance languages to some extent, based on what I know of my big three. I have a gift for foreign languages and patterns become very clear to me very quickly.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)For the record, I'm 50% Russian, 25% French, 25% Spanish.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I don't live in Philly anymore, but I still go back to see old friends and family a couple times a year ... and it takes me a day or two to pick it back up.
Part of it is the speed.
"Hey, what are you guys doing today" becomes ... "whutrusedoin", all one word, with an initial quick upward head bob replacing the "Hey" entirely.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)You know...
I have a few friends mostly older they never outgrew the accent, even after living upstate for 40+yrs.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's a shame that today with so much TV and radio, regional accents are not as strong as they used to be. I've had a couple of different accents because I've lived in different places. But Brooklynese is a language of its own. You can always recognize someone who grew up in Brooklyn unless they have made a big effort to change their speech.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)one thing they do is words ending in "o" end in "a"
Open the winda, it's hot out.
Denver is in Colorada
On the bed, there is a pilla.
gopiscrap
(23,733 posts)was Icelandic, but in their country most of them are very well versed in English
Skittles
(153,138 posts)a guy said YOUS GUYS and I was enthralled; I had never heard that outside of the movies
Also, I commented on how many hookers I saw from the car but the Philly guys insisted they weren't hookers, just "South Philly girls"
DFW
(54,325 posts)Smatterings of others (e.g. Polish, Turkish, Japanese) but not enough to say I'm conversational.
So far, that is (I HATE having to ask "Do you speak English" all the time).
treestar
(82,383 posts)I don't even recognize what Schwyzerduutsch is !
DFW
(54,325 posts)It's so different from standard German that when shows with it are on German TV, they need to have subtitles. Unfortunately, it's also different in every Germanic-speaking Canton, and there is no standardized written version of it, so it pretty much has to be learned on location orally.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Most people there speak more than their native language. My family speaks Spanish, French, Catalan and English.
treestar
(82,383 posts)If that's not one's native language, that's an interesting one to choose to learn. I've been to Barcelona, and found it interesting. It is so specific to one area that taking time to learn it is impressive, even if you are living there.
I met some Dutch people once and another person commented how the Dutch seemed to speak several languages. One guy said, "We have to. No one else speaks Dutch!"
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Catalans have been trying to become independent from Spain for centuries. Schools are bi-lingual in that area and children learn in both languages.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Seemed to be between French and Spanish.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)There seems to be a mix of Spanish and something else.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)DFW
(54,325 posts)It's rare that a week goes by when I haven't spoken nearly all of them for my job, and my wife and I speak German at home.
As for Catalan, I used to live in Barcelona with a local family.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Lost_Count
(555 posts)As it stands it is just a place for all of us, myself included, to talk about how awesome we are.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Several German speakers to my surprise. More French speakers than I expected.
Fewer Spanish speakers.
Do you read newspapers online in the languages you speak from time to time?
Lost_Count
(555 posts)... With the family in law and the random German speakers I find.
My work provides all the French I can take.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)After posting this, I paid my membership and am on my way for the year.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Yo sprechen dat.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)n/t
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Me alegro verte, Freunde.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)gracias. Y Sie?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Sind die Raben glücklich ist er weg?
Common Sense Party
(14,139 posts)I keep saying I'm going to learn it--and learn Italian--but I never do.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Some Hebrew and used to do some Ydish. When still fresh could understand German if slowly spoken.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)By a rabbi's wife.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)i hope I don't discourage you with my comment. Arabic is probably a very useful language to know in many parts of the US as well as in the Middle East.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Warpy
(111,222 posts)My first language was German but I haven't spoken it since I was a toddler. It did allow me to pick up Yiddish pretty easily in Boston.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Basic Japanese, some Spanish, A smattering of Italian, Yiddish, Hebrew, and German.
TheMathieu
(456 posts)I keep putting it off though.
elleng
(130,825 posts)3catwoman3
(23,965 posts)...none.
Took Spanish for 3 years high school, German for 2, and more German in college. 3 adult ed classes in Japanese, before and while being stationed in Japan while serving in the Air Force nurse corp. My pronunciation was always complimented. Never fluent, altho I would have come the closest in German. Now, some decades later, I remember enough to ask a few questions, but not enough to understand the answers -
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Read, write, and speak it fluently.
En dat is de waarheid!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Would you agree or am I very wrong about this? I heard a lot of Dutch as a small child because my grandmother and her sisters all spoke Dutch when they wanted to talk about some secret gossip that they did not want me to understand. They would say, "Little pitcher have big ears," and that was my cue to pay attention because they were going to talk funny and I wanted to try to understand. Years later I had a boss who was Dutch. He spoke about personal family matters in Dutch in my presence. It was OK for a while but then I felt I had to confess to him that I could understand what he said. I was as surprised as he was. What you hear as a small child sticks in your ears I think. But you don't realize that until some situation permits you to hear that it.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)in the Dutch language. It's a very difficult language to learn. It took me two years to be able to speak it with a semblance of coherence.
Kleine potje heeft grote oren. Just means eavesdropping.
I raised my three children to speak and understand Dutch, and although my daughter, the youngest, has forgotten the most, she still understands and is currently brushing up on her Dutch since her boss and his wife are Dutch and so are their firm's investors.
Two of my three children were born in The Netherlands: oldest son in Arnhem (province of Gelderland) and daughter in Almere-Stad (province of Flevoland). We skype a lot with friends and family - every week, actually, so that's how my husband (born and bred Dutchman) and I keep up our Dutch.
Very interesting to know that you're a descendant of Dutch people. I'm half Indonesian, half Dutch, first generation American here. Maiden name: de Ruiter (the horseman). Apparently, Redbeard the Pirate (from Friesland - another province in Holland) was one of my ancestors. lol
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)couldn't understand a lick of Dutch when we were in Amsterdam. He stated that it's one of the most difficult languages to decipher. I think Icelandic would be the only European language to give it a close run for difficulty.
My grandfather came from Amsterdam, but only spoke Dutch when his nephew would come over to visit. Sadly, none of his children learned it.
And with that I'll leave you with one of the very few phrases I know..
Dank u wel
Groetjes
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)He speaks five languages and that's pretty durn amazing!
The strange thing is, my Dutch husband, who speaks English like a Bostonian and is pretty fluent in German, has zero problem with Germans when they speak with him. He has had many clients who are 100% German, and he'd talk German with them for about ten minutes before he finally tells them that he's actually Dutch. lol He gets a kick out of how surprised they are when he tells them that.
I flunked German in Dutch high school. I used to be pretty fluent in French, though. To this day, both my brother and younger sister can speak French fluently. They can't write it anymore, though. I get a kick when he comes to the States on vacation and they babble in French with one another - usually to talk about me.
Dank u wel
Groetjes
Alsjeblieft en groetjes terug!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)But one branch of the family moved up from Belgium a long, long, long time ago if the record of that branch of the family's history is to be believed. Most of my family has been in the US for very, very, very long. My Dutch ancestors were the most recent immigrants and they came in the 19th century. They were seeking religious freedom. Someone was arrested for preaching without a license. Preaching is one of the common professions in my family.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Frieslanders are so rogue that they even developed their own language! It was a dialect once upon a time, but it's grown into a full language. Redbeard is rumored to come from Friesland. There still are a LOT of redheads there today.
To this day, I have family in Friesland and Gelderland. Most extended family migrated to Gelderland, but Friesland was the first province my family were sent to when the Dutch were forced to leave Indonesia after WWII. Friesland was where my late paternal grandparents were first relocated, and many of my cousins who share my maiden name still live there.
It's amazing that you can still understand, read, and write Dutch although you're so many generations separated from the original family members who came to this country. Pretty cool, JD.
The only reason why my father decided to immigrate to the U.S. in 1961 was because he couldn't stand the cold Dutch weather. He and my mother both lived most of their lives in tropical and warm Indonesia.
Both of my brothers still live in Gelderland. The only family I have here are my children, my husband, and a younger sister in Tennessee - who I'm going to visit in April. My husband, a huge Elvis Presley fan, wants to see Graceland.
DFW
(54,325 posts)Dat is inderdaad een uitzondering.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Ik wist echt niet dat er zoveel Hollands-sprekended mensen op DU waren.
Dankzij de internet, het is werkelijk een heel klein wereldje geworden, of niet?
DFW
(54,325 posts)Dat hade ik inderdaad nooit gedacht.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Been fluent in that since about second grade. -.-
MADem
(135,425 posts)"the" language of communications!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I'm delighted. Shows us what a smart bunch we are.
And of course this is just languages. We have some really competent scientists and scholars in other areas here on DU. It is wonderful to share time on the internet with such intelligent, well informed and learned people.
We don't always agree, but most of the time we learn a lot from each other because of our diverse but accomplished backgrounds.
Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)Now do that in Europe.
It simply is not necessary in the United States to know more than one language. It is changing in the Southwest part of the country and Spanish is becoming important but for the most part, English is enough.
MineralMan
(146,281 posts)I live in St. Paul, MN. You wouldn't believe the number of languages spoken here. You truly wouldn't.
Now, if you're talking about some small town in Kansas or Iowa, you might be right, but anywhere there's a decent-sized city, you'd be dead wrong.
Bok_Tukalo
(4,322 posts)Dominant languages. Languages needed to engage in every day activities and commerce.
I can pretty much live anywhere in the United States just knowing English (there are a few exceptions but who wants to live in Miami, anyway?) and function easily without it ever being an issue.
It might be different in Minnesota, though. Which surprises me. I figured Texas would be more difficult (relatively ... not any real difficulty at all) knowing just one language.
MineralMan
(146,281 posts)Here's the thing: Yes, you can get along fine just knowing English, but you won't be able to interact well with many people you may encounter. In my own neighborhood, there are native speakers of English, Spanish, Hmong, Somali, and Vietnamese. I only speak Spanish well enough to have a conversation, but I can be polite in all the rest, offering greetings, farewells, thank yous and the like. Guess what? It helps me get along with my neighbors.
Elsewhere in St. Paul, we have communities who speak those languages, plus many others. Some businesses have signage in other languages. In those stores, other languages are spoken, although the people inside will do their best to help you if you come in. Same with restaurants. We have dozens of ethnic restaurants, some with no English on the menu. I love visiting them and trying their food.
Why wouldn't I want to learn other languages? Why would I want to insist that my language is the most important one? I learned Spanish because I lived in a town with an over 50% Hispanic population. I learned it through living there. I learned French by studying it in High School for four years and maintain it by speaking and writing it whenever I can. I learned Russian because the USAF sent me to a total immersion language school so I could do the job they had in mind for me. I've discovered Russian language speakers everywhere I have lived, and try to stay relatively fluent by interacting with them.
In other languages, and in languages that will be spoken where I travel, I learn enough to be polite, ask directions, and understand street signs and numbers. It doesn't take long and it goes a long way toward enjoying my visit.
Insisting on speaking only one language is an enormous limitation for anyone. I've never understood why people do that.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I learned a bit of Spanish, but I can't form more than a basic sentence, and certainly could not carry on a conversation with somebody. Although there are a few stores where Spanish is spoken, I just avoid those stores. Sure, I wont' win any awards for multi cultureism, but I can get by just fine. If I run into somebody who doesn't speak English, I will do my best to help them, and hopefully they will do the same for me.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Goes to show how diverse we have become.
I remember when i was a child in school we had so many immigrants, war refugees from Eastern Europe. One of my best friends was from Estonia. That was also in the Midwest. Another friend was from Germany. Her parents immigrated before WWII.
And now we have immigrants from South of the border, from Asia, from the Near East, Africa, everywhere in the world. But I had no idea that so many people were immigrating to Minnesota.
Russian is a good language to know nowadays. Especially during this Olympic season.
And yes, the numbers of ethnic restaurants reflect the diversity we now have. I can remember the first ethnic foods that I ate. A pizza that my mother made from a box. Probably didn't have much in common with Italian pizza. It was an experiment. And then we invited a student from India to our home one Thanksgiving. She made some curry. The funny thing was that she told my mother to make some rice. So my mother, Midwestern farm girl that she was and is, made a tiny bit of rice for our large family and a big pot of --- of course, potatoes, is any meal complete without them? And when our friend from India came, she was quite shocked to see so many potatoes and so little rice.
That was our introduction to the food of the world. And now, curry is common on American tables. Not terribly common. But we all know what it is and have tasted it, I think. And some of us love it and eat it fairly frequently.
Thanks for your post about Minnesota.
DFW
(54,325 posts)A lot of the Dallas taxi drivers are Ashantis (dominant tribe in Ghana) or from northern Sudan. Don't ask me why.
In Washington, DC, it's Yoruba. In Boston, it's Ibo. In Seattle, it's Amharic. In New York City it's everything.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)are probably the most common foreign languages spoken.
MineralMan
(146,281 posts)I'm not fluent in any of them, but can carry on a decent conversation and read them pretty well.
Iggo
(47,545 posts)Then again, that's not really a foreign language around here.
Just an alternate.
sarisataka
(18,539 posts)and can get the gist of Moldovan.
There was a time i knew insults in eleven languages but could only drag six or seven these days
pampango
(24,692 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It sounds kind of South Sea Islandish to me.
pampango
(24,692 posts)"Pampanga" actually derives from a different language - Kapampangan - but it is also the official name of the province so they use it in Tagalog, too.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Nah, just kidding, pero hablo espanol.
Brother Buzz
(36,407 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)and some French.
'olelo Hawai'i is not, of course, a foreign language.
Tracer
(2,769 posts)nt
Trailrider1951
(3,413 posts)I took German in high school and college, and I still remember much of it. I moved to Texas in 1981, and here I was, surrounded by people who spoke English and a dialect of Spanish. So I picked up some Spanish as well. I have now rented my upstairs of my house to a couple from India and they are teaching me a few words of their language. It's all good.
madokie
(51,076 posts)I struggle with english
anneboleyn
(5,611 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)dos coworkers en mexico es mis carnales...
Son mis carnales. Soy, eres,es,somos,son. I am, you are, he is, we are, they are. I love the Spanish conjugation chart. It's much easier than English with far fewer irregular verbs.
MO_Moderate
(377 posts)No need
FSogol
(45,465 posts)Reasons:
1. If you start in the mid of the US or Germany, how far do you have to drive until you reach another country speaking a different language. Quite a difference, no? See why the Germans (and many other countries) are ahead of us?
2. The US (because of #1 and some isolationist tendencies) never promoted learning multiple languages until recently in the last century. Your question might be better for those 20 and under.
As for you question:
Spanish and a some conversational French.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)The OP said nothing about the USA's mastery of foreign languages. The sneering is only implied and only in your imagination, which was probably the intention, but that is only an assumption that you can hold in your own take of the whole thing.
A smarter move might be to begin with, let's start with you, JDP. What languages are you fluent in?
FSogol
(45,465 posts)their lack of mastery over foreign languages. Do you see the joke about it in this thread? My post was merely defending the charge.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Completely different way of interpreting things!
The perceived sneering is your subjective interpretation. That was my point. But if the shoe fits...
This is no reflection on me because I am american and fully bilingual in 2 languages. I know several people in europe who are fully bilingual in 3 languages.
Anyway, where in the OP do you see a judgmental sneering or any judgmental label at all? But if the shoe fits...
FSogol
(45,465 posts)If your reading comprehension was better, you'd have probably seen that I'm fluent in English, Spanish, and pretty good in French. Both of my sons are bilingual. Save your sneering and shoe fitting.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Defending as lack of knowledge is a rather accurate example of the sub-literate denominator so many strive to achieve... regardless of how one may rationalize it otherwise.
FSogol
(45,465 posts)BTW, you totally got away with calling me sub-literate so pat yourself on the back!
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)The poster does that sorta thing endlessly. Regardless of how they choose to rationalize it..
FSogol
(45,465 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I can sing in Italian, so I know some words in that language but don't speak it by any means.
I think language is fun. If you have seen my posts, you will understand that somewhere in my ancestry, someone kissed the blarney stone. I am, to put it mildly, very verbal. I love language.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)speak a language other than English. I was just curious. That's why I posted this. I think that the fact that so many DUers speak at least one language other than English or have at some point studied or learned another language explains in part why we are so liberal. We have been exposed to cultures and ways of expressing ideas other than the culture and ways of expressing ourselves that we were born into. We have had to stretch our thinking. Of course, many DUers who do not speak a language other than issues have been forced to stretch their thinking for other reasons. GLBTs for example have to stop and think about what it is to be perceived as different. That definitely stretches your thinking. Hopefully, it makes you more tolerant of others. Learning a second language also, hopefully, opens up people's thinking to accept diversity. Just an observation. No one knows everything. No one is an expert on everything. We all have a lot to learn from each other. Speaking a second or more languages is not that important. It is just interesting to see how many of us do.
arthritisR_US
(7,286 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)that Hungary sits in the middle of Europe and yet has a language that is not related to the languages of the countries around it. That is so strange. A joke played on the world by history somehow.
arthritisR_US
(7,286 posts)When I say to Hungarian's the one sentence I know they say I don't even have an accent.
Alas, I couldn't read or write one word in their language unlike French.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)the languages of a bunch of tribes that live near Russia's Ural Mountains and that most Americans have never heard of. (Cheremis? Vogul?)
The historical reason for the geographical distribution is that these Russian tribes moved into eastern Europe, with one group heading straight east and becoming the Hungarians, while others went north and became the Estonians, Finns, and Sami.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)group of languages, but I did not know the origin of the people.
DFW
(54,325 posts)It is not an Indo-European language and is considered Asian from "out there somewhere." One of my best friends is from Transylvania, and his native language is Hungarian. He also knows Romanian, Aramaic and Hebrew as well as being fluent in some European languages (English, German, Dutch, French and Spanish). I guess if you start off with something as complicated as Hungarian or Finnish (or, say, Basque), and other languages seem easy by comparison.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)livetohike
(22,133 posts)native language, but never required me to respond that way and so I didn't. Wish I had.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)Both her and her brother immigrated prior to WW2. I used to enjoy listening to them speak as a child, and Her cooking was absolutely delicious.
I had the fortune of traveling there the year after the wall came down in the middle of winter. It was like traveling back nearly a century, but the people were sooo pleasant. It was interesting to see the similarities between the foothills of the Tatras and the Adirondacks. I recently remarked on my desire to return during late spring to hike around some of the abandoned castles on the hillsides.
livetohike
(22,133 posts)in 1929. I have connected with a distant cousin via Facebook and would love to get over there to meet the family. Her Mom is still living and is my Dad's second cousin. My Dad passed in 2004.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Particularly useful when dealing with politicians, recalcitrant computers, and various forms of plastic packaging.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)my friends and I mastered it and could speak it as fast as plain English. We did this because we were all in French Immersion together and we were required to speak in French all the time. We had this French teacher who was super strict about it, and if we didn't say every single word in proper French (no slang), he would start speaking to us in Italian with this smirk, and would continue in Italian until we got every word in French correct. WE thought he was so rude - instead of helping us he was making a joke of us. Being rebellious teens, we HATED being 'forced' to speak French and being laughed at in Italian, so we started speaking in pig latin and, for the life of me I can't figure out how HE (the teacher) didn't figure out what we were speaking (maybe it's because we were so fast) but wow, did he get mad when we did that, which of course, we thought was hilarious.
ah, we were bad. I was one of those teens who didn't take to shaming very well...made me want to go out and do the opposite. I was a straight-A student too which aggravated aforementioned teacher...I still don't know how he didn't figure it out. I think it may be because we had changed a few of the rules, LOL, and made up some weird way of saying some words, but still, it SOUNDED like pig latin.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I can't imagine anyone who went to an American grade school not knowing about Pig Latin.
I was terrible at it.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)And I'm in Canada, but I don't see that making a big difference about knowing about pig latin. My teacher was Canadian born, but was of Italian decent, and he spoke English and French with the same level of fluency. I have no idea whether or not his Italian was good or bad, LOL.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)For example:
until recently a difficult word to trace, in part because it was taboo to the editors of the original OED when the "F" volume was compiled, 1893-97. Written form only attested from early 16c. OED 2nd edition cites 1503, in the form fukkit; earliest appearance of current spelling is 1535 -- "Bischops ... may fuck thair fill and be vnmaryit" (Sir David Lyndesay, "Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits"), but presumably it is a much more ancient word than that, simply one that wasn't written in the kind of texts that have survived from O.E. and M.E. Buck cites proper name John le Fucker from 1278. The word apparently is hinted at in a scurrilous 15c. poem, titled "Flen flyys," written in bastard Latin and M.E. The relevant line reads:
Non sunt in celi
quia fuccant uuiuys of heli
"They (the monks) are not in heaven because they fuck the wives of (the town of) Ely." Fuccant is pseudo-Latin, and in the original it is written in cipher. The earliest examples of the word otherwise are from Scottish, which suggests a Scandinavian origin, perhaps from a word akin to Norwegian dialectal fukka "copulate," or Swedish dialectal focka "copulate, strike, push," and fock "penis." Another theory traces it to M.E. fyke, fike "move restlessly, fidget," which also meant "dally, flirt," and probably is from a general North Sea Germanic word; cf. M.Du. fokken, Ger. ficken "fuck," earlier "make quick movements to and fro, flick," still earlier "itch, scratch;" the vulgar sense attested from 16c. This would parallel in sense the usual M.E. slang term for "have sexual intercourse," swive, from O.E. swifan "to move lightly over, sweep" (see swivel). But OED remarks these "cannot be shown to be related" to the English word. Chronology and phonology rule out Shipley's attempt to derive it from M.E. firk "to press hard, beat."
Germanic words of similar form (f + vowel + consonant) and meaning 'copulate' are numerous. One of them is G. ficken. They often have additional senses, especially 'cheat,' but their basic meaning is 'move back and forth.' ... Most probably, fuck is a borrowing from Low German and has no cognates outside Germanic. (Liberman)
French foutre and Italian fottere look like the English word but are unrelated, derived rather from L. futuere, which is perhaps from PIE base *bhau(t)- "knock, strike off," extended via a figurative use "from the sexual application of violent action" (Shipley; cf. the sexual slang use of bang, etc.). Popular and Internet derivations from acronyms (and the "pluck yew" fable) are merely ingenious trifling. The O.E. word was hæman, from ham "dwelling, home," with a sense of "take home, co-habit." Fuck was outlawed in print in England (by the Obscene Publications Act, 1857) and the U.S. (by the Comstock Act, 1873). As a noun, it dates from 1670s. The word may have been shunned in print, but it continued in conversation, especially among soldiers during WWI.
It became so common that an effective way for the soldier to express this emotion was to omit this word. Thus if a sergeant said, 'Get your ----ing rifles!' it was understood as a matter of routine. But if he said 'Get your rifles!' there was an immediate implication of urgency and danger. (John Brophy, "Songs and Slang of the British Soldier: 1914-1918," pub. 1930)
The legal barriers broke down in the 20th century, with the "Ulysses" decision (U.S., 1933) and "Lady Chatterley's Lover" (U.S., 1959; U.K., 1960). Johnson excluded the word, and fuck wasn't in a single English language dictionary from 1795 to 1965. "The Penguin Dictionary" broke the taboo in the latter year. Houghton Mifflin followed, in 1969, with "The American Heritage Dictionary," but it also published a "Clean Green" edition without the word, to assure itself access to the lucrative public high school market.
The abbreviation F (or eff) probably began as euphemistic, but by 1943 it was being used as a cuss word, too. In 1948, the publishers of "The Naked and the Dead" persuaded Norman Mailer to use the euphemism fug instead. When Mailer later was introduced to Dorothy Parker, she greeted him with, "So you're the man who can't spell 'fuck' " (The quip sometimes is attributed to Tallulah Bankhead). Hemingway used muck in "For whom the Bell Tolls" (1940). The major breakthrough in publication was James Jones' "From Here to Eternity" (1950), with 50 fucks (down from 258 in the original manuscript). Egyptian legal agreements from the 23rd Dynasty (749-21 B.C.E.) frequently include the phrase, "If you do not obey this decree, may a donkey copulate with you!" (Reinhold Aman, "Maledicta," Summer 1977). Fuck-all "nothing" first recorded 1960.
Verbal phrase fuck up "to ruin, spoil, destroy" first attested c.1916. A widespread group of Slavic words (cf. Pol. pierdoli?) can mean both "fornicate" and "make a mistake." Fuck off attested from 1929; as a command to depart, by 1944. Flying fuck originally meant "have sex on horseback" and is first attested c.1800 in broadside ballad "New Feats of Horsemanship." For the unkillable urban legend that this word is an acronym of some sort (a fiction traceable on the Internet to 1995 but probably predating that) see here, and also here. Related: Fucked; fucking. Agent noun fucker attested from 1590s in literal sense; by 1893 as a term of abuse (or admiration).
DUCK F-CK-R. The man who has the care of the poultry on board a ship of war. ("Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue," 1796)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'm from Cali.
malthaussen
(17,183 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)malthaussen
(17,183 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)DOS is the only thing I've retained these days, mostly because it's still useful
KansDem
(28,498 posts)I lived in northern Switzerland for several months during 1983-84.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)KansDem
(28,498 posts)German, French, Italian, and Romansh
I sensed that English is its fifth unofficial language.
DFW
(54,325 posts)KansDem
(28,498 posts)Ich spracht Hochdeutsch
I was surprised though at the number of Swiss who could switch to English if they heard I was having trouble with German.
DFW
(54,325 posts)I have an office there, in Geneva. My guy there speaks some English and rudimentary Italian. No German at all. Whenever we have anything to do in the German-speaking part, they call me, and not my guy in Geneva. They consider him more of a foreigner than they do me because he's a French-speaking Swiss. For me, it means I have to hop a plane unless I'm already in southern Germany. For my guy in Geneva, he can just hop a train and be in Basel or Zürich in 3 hours. But no, someone from Geneva is a foreigner in those cities, even though his family has been there since the fourteenth century, and his passport says he's just as Swiss as they are.
flor de jasmim
(1,476 posts)Can read Norwegian bokmål and nynorsk, Swedish, Catalan, and Galician.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,367 posts)and nearly married a French girl, which is how you really learn a language unless you are just gifted or a social animal (ce qui n'est pas le cas chez moi).
That was 30 years ago, but j'ai beaucoup retenu.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)No surprise. My husband loves language too.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)German and French, muddle-through tourist knowledge of Spanish, Chinese, and Norwegian.
I grew up hearing German and Latvian as a child, so my upbringing was different from that of the typical monolingual American.
On my 2012 trip through Scandinavia, I was impressed by how many Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, and Icelanders spoke nearly perfect English. I found out that in Norway, at least, they start in first grade, and what they learn is reinforced by the fact that these countries are too small to make more than a few TV programs of their own each year, so they import most of their TV and subtitle it instead of dubbing it. Nearly everything is that way except for news, live sporting events (I watched the U.S.-Japan women's soccer final in Swedish, but of course, it was easy to tell what was going on), and programming for preschool children.
The result is that kids who are old enough to read subtitles get a language lesson each time they turn on the TV.
Japan, on the other hand, imports very little foreign TV and dubs the few things it does import.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)TVs and VCRs/DVD players have a function that theoretically enables the viewer to select from either English (or another original language) or Japanese, but I have noticed that recently, most of the foreign (English-language) films that I've seen on TV are just dubbed in Japanese, which makes it difficult to watch them because the voice actors don't seem to make an attempt to imitate the voices of the original actors-- so basically, the dubbed voices are alto, soprano, tenor and bass. It's kind of annoying to watch a movie where Edward G. Robinson sounds like Bob Denver-- or vice versa.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)They've been in a 50-50 Spanish/English immersion program since kindergarten (all classes 50-50% in each language).
They can both read at grade level in Spanish (they're off the charts in English). I can read a little Spanish, from helping them with homework through the years, though my 11 year-old tells me not to try to speak it (due to my abysmal pronunciation). LOL.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I think it helps a child learn his mother tongue. In my opinion, that is because grammar comes alive and reveals its purpose when you naturally compare the two languages you speak.
Learning grammar in your own language is difficult because you just speak it and don't think about how it is put together. It is just in your ears.
Spanish is useful and may become the international language of the future in my view.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)learning German gave me a better understanding of English grammar (direct vs. indirect objects, especially).
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)People comment on my good accent and think I am Austrian, but I cheat on the grammar out of ignorance.
3catwoman3
(23,965 posts)...in German were my nemesis. Why ever is dress (der Rock) a masculine noun?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)slurring the sentences a bit. People think you have an authentic accent. But I know I am being schlampert.
schlampig
schlampig , schlampert schlampert (Aus, S Ger)
1 adj sloppy, careless
[Arbeit auch] slipshod
(=unordentlich) untidy
(=liederlich) slovenly
2 adv (=nachlässig) carelessly, sloppily
(=ungepflegt) slovenly
die Arbeit ist schlampig erledigt worden the work has been sloppily or carelessly done, the work has been done in a slipshod manner
http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/schlampert
treestar
(82,383 posts)Have learned some Russian, but could not really function. Also Kiswahili.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)How did you happen to learn it? It is rare in my view.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I belong to a particular group that has a lot of Kenyans, and they got me interested in learning it.
DFW
(54,325 posts)Mimi nejue Kiswahili kidogo!!
(well, that's about the extent of it LOL)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Ninasoma Kiswahili nzuri sana!
DFW
(54,325 posts)I can't really speak or read it. I just picked up a phrase or two when my daughter got back from Tanzania.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)and I was born and raised in California. Unfortunately that Germanic language is English. Sacre bleu! Oh, and I can swear in Spanish.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Started studying French in 7th grade and continued through college. Lived in France for several months in my 20s.
My bf is bilingual English-Spanish. His father is Panamanian.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)savalez
(3,517 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)lpbk2713
(42,750 posts)Tourist level in Greek and Russian.
Studied Mandarin for a while and gave up on it.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)FreeState
(10,570 posts)cinnabonbon
(860 posts)Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)men alle unge i Norge snakker engelsk. Jeg snakker norsk med gamle folk.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)de hører at man prøver å snakke på språket deres. Men ja, jeg tror engelsk er litt "kult" å lære for den nye generasjonen, så de lærer det godt.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Så morsomt.
cinnabonbon
(860 posts)Glad for at det er flere her. Jeg leste at du lærer deg japansk nå. Flere venner av meg studerer det og, men det ser utrolig vanskelig ut. Er det like komplisert som de sier?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Jeg har erfaring med partikkelspråk allerede, etter å ha lært litt kantonesisk da jeg studerte lingvistikk, (gav opp det språket på grunn av tonene) mens kanji tror jeg blir vanskelig. Har lært meg hiragana og katakana allerede, og er så heldig at jeg går på kurs, slik at jeg får taletrening.
Så, er du norsk eller?
DFW
(54,325 posts)Jeg kan førstå det!
Arcanetrance
(2,670 posts)I've also started trying to learn Chinese which is hard
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Not too many people to converse with, but it does help with understanding the other Romance languages. I don't speak much Spanish, but I understand it.
Two of my grandsons have been in Russian immersion at their school since kindergarten, one through eighth grade and the other one still at it in sixth grade. They're quite fluent.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)67% of Germans know at one other language other than their mother language well enough to hold a conversation; 27% 2 languages; 8% 3 or more. 56% know English, 15% French, and for 6% German is their 2nd language.
Similar figures for other EU countries are in the report too.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)And not some sloppy Bavarian dialect, either. My German teacher was very precise about proper pronunciation.
spanone
(135,802 posts)lpbk2713
(42,750 posts)Mandarin by about two to one.
http://listverse.com/2008/06/26/top-10-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world/
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)you find lots of people who are more comfortable in their native language.
You read that ten million people in China are learning English, and then you realize that ten million is only 1% of a billion. When I was in China (admittedly, it was in 1990), I found people who couldn't even speak Mandarin or write Chinese characters.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)I picked up bits and pieces of other languages when I used to travel. It got me by.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I lived in France briefly for about a year, ages ago.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Parlo català.
Je ne sais pas le français.
And it's not a foreign language, but:
dilby
(2,273 posts)But I do speak Japanese at a 3rd grade level can get by and live there but please speak slowly and forgive me for asking you to repeat what you said. And I can speak Spanish on a public education level, I took Spanish from 7th to Senior year and I can get by but not on the level as my Japanese which I used everyday and still use.
sakabatou
(42,146 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)I know very little Mandarin Chinese and Spanish. Enough to get me something to eat and find a bathroom as well as say please/thank you.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Oh wait...you meant human languages.
spinbaby
(15,088 posts)My German is fluent, my Japanese not so much. I want to learn French, too, and started to on Duolingo, but their Web site kept freezing on me. I'll get back to it one of these days.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)I've also picked up a little bit of Kannada and Hindi from my time working with Indian's, and can read German, but can't speak it at all and can't understand it when spoken at conversational speeds (if a German talks to me like I'm a toddler, I can usually make it out).
MFM008
(19,803 posts)we were stationed there when I was a kid so I picked up some of the lingo.
RichGirl
(4,119 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)xiamiam
(4,906 posts)which I think is still hidden in a brain fold waiting to be re activated, but who knows, it might be gone forever.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Today, 40 years later, I recall only a limited vocabulary.
Not long ago I met a local au paire who is from Germany. She speaks flawless English with barely a hint of accent. When she told me she was here as an au paire I had to ask her from what country as I literally couldn't tell from her speech. She's only 19 years old too. Amazing young woman.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I would be a native speaker except I learned "Americanized" Italian growing up. The dialect spoken by i miei genitori is considered antiquated and is no longer spoken. True Dante Italian was not spoken in my house. I speak Italian as it was spoken 90 years ago in Canavese Piedmont Italy.
I have italian friends who love to come over and hear me speak and watch me cook. The traditions that I have, were those of their great grandparents. It is like a snapshot of the past for them. When I make cotechino for New Year's, it was as it was taught to my father by my grandfather. My italian friends go to the permercato and buy it pre-made.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)generation, which they had learned from their immigrant parents, who had come over between 1880 and 1910.
kiranon
(1,727 posts)AnnieBW
(10,421 posts)And I'm enjoying the flashbacks from my college Russian classes as I'm watching the Olympics.
I also speak a little German, from hearing my grandfather speak it when I was a kid.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)PumpkinAle
(1,210 posts)and some French and German and tried Spanish, but my mind gets confused and I speak French, German, Spanish and English all in the same sentence
So usually I smile which is understood everywhere.
Skittles
(153,138 posts)which language would you prefer I learn?
Wolf Frankula
(3,600 posts)I understand German (I studied it in college) but I don't speak it.
Wolf
DFW
(54,325 posts)That is one I didn't expect to see on here.
Much of the Zazpiak Bat crowd in the USA is the Elko Nevada area, and they tend Republican.
Wolf Frankula
(3,600 posts)Nire ama, ta nire aitobea ta amuma Euskaldunak Nafarrotik ziren. My mother, her parents were Basques from Navarra. They were much further left than I am (I'm a Democratic socialist). Grandma was an FAI. Grandpa was an outspoken aberritar.
My Euskera is very rusty from non use. Dad never learned it.
Wolf
DFW
(54,325 posts)Percentage-wise, anyway, compared to the others. What little Euskera I know was taught to me by a Bilbao Basque, so there will be some dialectal differences anyway. I haven't been back there for decades, either, so what little I learned, I have forgotten as well.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)and C++.
demosincebirth
(12,536 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,936 posts)I can speak fairly fluent Spanish. If I get in a conversation, my Portuguese, Italian, and French comes back to me. When I graduated college I was fluent in 4 foreign languages, I speak English (American), of course, and I was descent in Sign Language. I am functionally illiterate in Hebrew, Greek, and used to be so in Russian, but forgot almost every bit. I trying to re-teach myself those languages, as well as Arabic and Persian. It's going very slowly. I used to know over a hundred names for animals in Swahili, I can only remember a handful of words now. I learned enough Swahili to teach one of my little brothers before he went to Kenya; they were impressed with this basic skills! If I watch a foreign film and I have some understanding of the grammar and lay of the language, and the film is translated properly, I can end up with a vocabulary of about 40 words by the end of the movie, but it only lasts about two weeks. I am teaching myself Cherokee. I can also sometimes understand Yiddish when its spoken, but not written, which is quite odd.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I almost wish there were more bilingual posts around here!
Maybe I should start a trend?
neverforget
(9,436 posts)so when I visit Germany in the future, I would understand it more.
burrowowl
(17,636 posts)And a dead language: Latin.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Restaurant Spanish. Tourist handbook Dutch, Danish and Czech.
The problem if you are an American trying to expand your horizons by travel is that everywhere you go, you meet people whose English is much better than your feeble assault on their language.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)broadcasters, in a little box. Some phrases, as I remember.
I remember thinking that a country can either "say" they care about training\education or, like that, put it into practice.
Oh, and none. But I'm an American. Of the many curriculums I was exposed to over my life, every single one seemed to teach us that we were the only important country around anyway, and that everyone else was simply expected to learn English.
They changed that, right?
DFW
(54,325 posts)It's like saying 40% of Americans ca speak German because they can say "Ich bin ein Berliner."
It's true that many Germans, especially in the west, have had German in school and know a few words. But "speak" it? Maybe 15% of Germans on the street can really hold an intelligent conversation, almost all of them under the age of 30. In the east, the old "socialist" part, where the second language taught in schools was Russian until 1990, far less people know English well, and people over 40 often know none at all.
Most Germans will know a few rudimentary words of English, but that no more constitutes speaking it than my "Konban-wa. O cha kudasai" in a Japanese restaurant means I can speak Japanese (I can't, but my accent is good. Boku-wa gai-jin desu).
muriel_volestrangler
(101,294 posts)Germany does well among the large EU countries, with 67% being able to hold a simple conversation in a 2nd language (56% can do it in English), but some countries do better, such as Denmark, unsurprisingly.
DFW
(54,325 posts)Statistics are always misleading to some degree, and it's always subjective as to what you mean when you say you "speak" a language. I can order anything off a Japanese menu, and rattle off the numbers with a near-native accent and fluency (or so the Japanese tell me). Japanese always assume I speak their language until I stop them at the second sentence and tell them I have no clue what they're saying.
"Speaking a language" is a subjective phrase. It depends on whether you mean "can they tell you how to get to Friedrichstrasse, including using hands, feet, pencil and paper," or if you mean "can they discuss the potential separation of Scotland from the UK in depth."
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)has developed conversational proficiency testing for learners of foreign language. Since it focuses on what functions the learner can perform in the language, it is independent of how the person learned the language, whether in a classroom or by picking it up informally, and it can be used with any language.
The levels are (and this is a very rough description)
Novice: Individual words and phrases, can't always form coherent sentences
Intermediate: Tourist survival skills
Advanced: Can tell stories and describe things, has a large vocabulary for everyday objects.
Advanced Plus: Can do everything the lower levels can do, can handle everyday situations with a complication, is beginning to handle higher-level functions
Superior: Not a native speaker but can talk about hypothetical situations and support opinions logically and function as an adult in the society
There are three levels of novice and three of intermediate.
Back when I was a language teacher, I went through proficiency testing training. Basically, you start out with simple greetings, asking about the weather, and so on, gradually making the functions more difficult, until the person gets stuck and can't handle the situation. Then you back down to the previous level and ask the person to draw a card from a set of role-playing instructions designed for each level.
For intermediate, for example, the learner improvises a conversation with the tester in which he or she tries to find out how to get to a certain museum, what the hours are, and if it is closed on any particular days.
For advanced, you might have to describe your house or apartment to a friend, including its best and worst features.
For superior, you might explain which political party you support and why and what you would like to see happen if they win the next election.
I was surprised at how neatly people fit into one category or another. They may have studied a topic or tactic in a book, but actually ability to perform linguistic functions varied tremendously, even among students who had been in the same class.
a la izquierda
(11,791 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)fluently and the army used him as an enterpèrter during WW2.
UncleMuscles
(44 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)And because of the first, I also understand Swedish and Danish.
I figure, Japanese in my 40s (well, I haven't turned 40 yet, but you get the gist,) Gaelic in my 50s, Maori in my 60s, and then I'll see what catches my interest in my 70s.
MMcGuire
(121 posts)English
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Some Italian (not completely fluent) and a smattering of French. I love those two languages and wish I had the time to become more proficient in both of them.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)My mother is French and I've always spoken French with her at home. I studied Spanish for many years at school and have used it in my work.
get the red out
(13,460 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I remembered very little from age 4, when I spoke some Italian (grandparents)
This is why I look at my Italian tapes from the 90's and sigh every now and then. I had to have my nephew around when visiting Italy some years ago. He, thankfully can speak Italian, Spanish, French, Polish and Turkish!!!
I ain't getting any younger!
Demobrat
(8,968 posts)Trilingual
What do you call a person who speaks two languages?
Bilingual
What do you call a person who speaks one language?
American
(Very popular joke in Eastern Europe when I was there in the nineties. Many people told it to me. Many.)
WatermelonRat
(340 posts)I have enough of a grasp of it to read it, but I have a bit of difficulty understanding it when it's spoken aloud.