Would Snowden be looked at differently if he went to 60 Minutes with the information he took?

[Renew Deal]

I wonder if Snowden would be thought of differently if he handled himself differently. Here's the scenario I think about:

He steals the information the same way.
He comes to NY instead of Hong Kong and gives everything to 60 minutes and calls himself a whistle blower.
He gives a copy to Greenwald or someone else outside of the MSM
He deals with the consequences no matter what they are (fame, prison, both, etc).

Would people still say the same thing? Would he get treatment similar to Manning which I think has been far more favorable? Would the gov't intimidate CBS into silence?

[Rex]

1. Yes everything would be different.

nt.

[DonViejo]

30. Yep. Everything sure would be different. eom

[sabrina 1]

51. It would, he would be in jail and the material would not have been published.

Which is why from now on Whistle Blowers will leave the country before revealing their leaks. After what happened to those who did it the 'right' way, Drake, Binney, and Tice's revelations were held up by the NYT airc, until after the election, not to mention the torture and outrageous conviction of Manning, with no consequences for that actual criminals, no Whistle Blower in their right mind would reveal anything to the US MSM who would instantly inform the Authorities.

[reusrename]

54. Exactly, even Dr. King wasn't held incommunicado.

And he was probably considered the most dangerous political prisoner of that century.

Now, it's the S.O.P.

No contact, not even with lawyers in some cases.

I don't know what world these people live in that ask such questions.

[Art_from_Ark]

58. Well, he was *one* of the most "dangerous" political prisoners of that century, at least

In his day, labor leader Eugene Debs was arrested and imprisoned for daring to speak out against American involvement in World War I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

[reusrename]

62. Aha, yes. And it reinforces my point very well.

Debs ran for president while in prison. He was not held incommunicado as is our current practice.

[Th1onein]

57. You hit the nail on the head, Sabrina 1.

[Rex]

63. I think one thing that made up his mind for him, was how Manning was treated.

Spot on as usual sabrina!

[Still Sensible]

2. Absolutely IMO n/t

[riderinthestorm]

3. 60 Minutes is co-opted by the propagandists, and that's a fact

Snowden never would have made it on air.

He would have been arrested at the second meeting, his materials confiscated and he'd have disappeared.

We would NEVER have known anything about this if he'd tried a forum like 60 Minutes - they're another tool of the government (don't you remember Lara Logan and the Benghazi report??!!)

[Renew Deal]

7. The Benghazi report is the exact opposite situation

Big reporter on big network with fabricated story.

But you might be right. If the gov't caught wind, they'd probably have hauled his ass off to jail. Still, if he got on the air it would have turned out differently.

[riderinthestorm]

16. He'd never have made it on air. That network would have alerted their masters

as soon as Snowden tried to contact them.

He wouldn't have made it past the second meeting.

Disappeared.'

[Thinkingabout]

4. He would still be charged with espionage, he had channels to use if he thought there was illegal

Activity occurring. He also is charged with theft. Since his work was with NSA the Whistleblower Act does not protect him. Had he used the proper protocol I would not think he would be charged with espionage. Espionage is pretty clear, you can not divulge information which you may happen upon in certain industries. He is not the first employee which it is clear nit to divulge information and will not be the last. He should have been aware not to steal from his upbringing so two different crimes here

[Renew Deal]

9. I think the password tricks he played would have gotten him in trouble.

It's different than Manning. Manning had access to the information. Snowden cracked his way in (crime).

[riderinthestorm]

18. He played no games nor did he trick anyone. That's a lie.

"Instead, there’s little mystery as to how Snowden gained his access: It was given to him."

He was considered a genius among geniuses'.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/12/16/an-nsa-coworker-remembers-the-real-edward-snowden-a-genius-among-geniuses/

“That kid was a genius among geniuses,” says the NSA staffer. “NSA is full of smart people, but anybody who sat in a meeting with Ed will tell you he was in a class of his own…I’ve never seen anything like it.”

[Thinkingabout]

22. He divulged the information he acquired from the NSA, this is not a game, this is serious.

If he thought this might be a game he was very wrong.

[riderinthestorm]

24. Take up your quibble with Renew Deal who accused Snowden of playing tricks. nt

[Thinkingabout]

35. what do you mean quibble

[riderinthestorm]

36. Renew Deal believes Snowden was playing tricks. I don't. Neither do you obviously

Since you chose to make a play on the word "games" you're going to have to take it up with Renew Deal.

[Thinkingabout]

39. Read my post # 22 again, it is not a game, charges of espionage is serious.

[riderinthestorm]

47. I've already said I agree 100%. I'm not sure why you continue to badger me nt

[Renew Deal]

25. Thanks for the link

[arthritisR_US]

5. If he had conducted himself in that manner he

would probably be labeled a whistle blower, jmo.

[Thinkingabout]

33. Security is exempt from whistle blower act. what he was a crime, plain and simply.

[arthritisR_US]

37. What Daniel Ellsberg did was security too and

ergo a crime but at least he stayed a faced the music as opposed to going off to the nemesis and doing gratuitous interviews.

[riderinthestorm]

41. Even Ellsberg says the times are different and Snowden has no chance of justice

He completely agrees that Snowden has done the right thing by fleeing.

He supports Snowden 100%

[arthritisR_US]

42. The times are different, how? Just curious about

what he is alluding to

[riderinthestorm]

43. Read Ellsberg's own words. Don't take me as the expert...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don’t agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago.

More at the link....

[reusrename]

53. Even Dr. King was never held incommunicado.

That is the standard procedure now.

How could he break the story if he's not allowed to speak?

[PowerToThePeople]

59. because USA is a true fascist authoritarian state now.

[riderinthestorm]

38. Yup. A crime because NSA whistleblowers have no avenues to report federal crimes

Clear as can be.

And those who'd gone before Snowden have/had suffered horrific fates from Manning to Drake.

He was wise to run. Or he'd be silenced as effectively as the others. At least he has the chance to participate in/influence the discussion.

Live to fight another day and all that.

Smart

[Thinkingabout]

49. Workers in the NSA has avenues in which to report activities in which they feel are nor correct,

Snowden just decided not to use the avenues.

[okaawhatever]

6. In my eyes, yes. It worked for Woodward and Bernstein. I think what they revealed is way worse than

what snowden revealed. Considering their info directly affected the potus and his presidency, I think they were in a much more dangerous position.

[Renew Deal]

10. BTW, I think that's partly why the individual leaks haven't had a big impact.

The story as a whole is pretty big, but I'm not sure much has changed.

[riderinthestorm]

26. The PTB profit from the NSA's real goal - economic imperialism

Power brokers will protect their ability to spy on economic summits and global leaders forever.

The NSA has admitted they aren't about terrorism. In fact they haven't stopped a single terrorist plot by their own admission.

But they HAVE tapped allies, global leaders and economic summits at the behest of geopolitical players who seek to capitalize on insider intel.

There's no "impact" for us other than our privacy rights are being annihilated. But the PTB don't give a shit about that. They'll continue to put public band-aids on the hemorrhaging of our civil rights even as they continue their greedy economic agenda to enrich the 1%.

[riderinthestorm]

15. Woodward and Bernstein were journalists revealing the leak. Like Greenwald and Poitras

revealing Snowden's leak.

Apples and oranges.

[okaawhatever]

17. Okay, let's say it worked for deep throat. Point being, snowden didn't even have to steal all the

info. He could have passed it onto journalists and they could have taken it from there.

[riderinthestorm]

19. Snowden did pass the info on to journalists. They did take it from there.

I'm not sure what difference you think there is here. Mark Felt gave the info to Bernstein and Woodward. Snowden gave the info to Greenwald and Poitras.

[okaawhatever]

21. No Snowden stole over one million pages of documentation and took that to a foreign country. That is

distinct and separate from what he gave to reporters. Also, many of those documents have nothing to do with his initial claim.

[riderinthestorm]

23. He took nothing to foreign countries. That's a lie too.

And the NSA has absolutely NO idea what he took.

No idea of the amount or scope.

And honestly, whatever amount he's had to put into a deadman's locker in case of his untimely demise has been worth the revelations. He's created an insurance policy for himself.

I think that's damn smart.

You nor I know anything about what he's given to Poitras or Greenwald. Nor do we know what's in storage.

Neither does the NSA.

Good.

[Luminous Animal]

45. The NSA has no idea what he copied. (Not stole - copied) They believe he had ACCESS

to millions of docs but no clue as to what he took with him.

And what specifically, is distinct and separate from what he gave Gellman, Patrois, and Greenwald?

[Vattel]

8. I would look at him as stupid if he had done that.

It would have been stupid to toss his life away by allowing himself to be arrested and charged. He can accomplish at least as much as a free man.

[Renew Deal]

11. Is he really "free"

He's cooped up in another country at the pleasure of the president.

[Vattel]

12. True, his freedom is restricted, but he would be less free in prison.

[riderinthestorm]

14. He'd be silenced in prison. Disappeared. At least now he has a chance of speaking out

and influencing the dialogue.

[Vattel]

20. Exactly right! Cheers

[treestar]

55. that is such baloney

OTT ODS/USDS.

[cthulu2016]

13. He would be in prison, of course, and that would affect image

As to whether anyone in his right mind would have done that? That's another question

[JI7]

27. what is the point of releasing things like UK, Australia spying ?

but nothing on china or russia.

[riderinthestorm]

31. The UK and Australia are part of our "5 eyes program" of mutual spying

So Obama can confidently say "the NSA is NOT spying on US citizens"...
... but Australia (or the UK, Canada or New Zealand) is.

And reporting their findings to us.

As far as NOT reporting anything about Russia - I'm thinking its not too much of a stretch to presume Snowden's asylum deal is that Greenwald and Poitras remain silent about Russian activities or Snowden's killed.

There actually HAS been quite a lot of reporting about China. In fact the reveals about our activities vis a vis China came at a most inconvenient time for Obama... nobody has remained silent about China. Look it up.

[JI7]

32. yes, about our spying on CHina but nothing on what china does

[riderinthestorm]

34. Really? You haven't read ANYTHING about Chinese industrial espionage

or hacking or spying on US interests?

Okay....

I'd suggest Google is your friend.

Honestly though I'd suggest you email Greenwald and Poitras about doing more stories about your particular area of interest. They're the ones in control of the NSA leak info stream at the moment - not Snowden.

[Luminous Animal]

46. Our mutual spying arrangements are with the UK & Australia... that is, they are active

partners with the NSA and its programs.

China and Russia are not.

What Snowden had access to was OUR and OUR partnership (5 eyes) programs with our democratic allies.

[Hekate]

28. I would certainly respect him more. I want my country improved, not destroyed...

... and what Snowden and Greenwald are doing is very destructive of our relationships with other countries. They are all doing it (allies spying on each other, that is), afaik, but once it's rubbed in their faces they have to react very publicly and very negatively, just as we would. And their citizens are outraged, just as we would be.

As for Russia and China, we are very vulnerable to their government-sponsored hacking, espionage, subversion, and destruction: they are not our friends, and we do not want them to know what we know. Now they do. Thanks a lot.

The elements of the USA PATRIOT ACT that were passed into law in a blind panic in 2001 now need to be substantially dismantled and intelligently rethought. I want the NSA and CIA and "Homeland" this and that back where they belong: monitoring the world outside our borders, and not interfering with our lives as Americans. If this scandal accomplishes that much, I will be forever grateful.

Yesterday someone here brought up whether Snowden's methods and motives are beside the point, and claimed that discussing them is a diversionary tactic. I disagree. We are capable of thinking about more than one thing at a time....

[1000words]

29. You mean the network that threw Rather under the bus?

I shudder to think what would have become of Snowden.

[grahamhgreen]

40. It's not about Snowden. It's about the crimes the NSA is commiting.

[KittyWampus]

44. To be honest, I do think it would have made a difference in my perception.

[Luminous Animal]

48. They would have done one 15 minute segment and that would have been that.

It would have been a very poor outcome from his trove of information.

The NY Times has had the Guardian docs for many months now and have published very little

Snowden was very smart in entrusting the docs to Gellman, Patrois and Greenwald. All independent and all fierce critics of the surveillance state.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. How about 60 Minutes goes to him?

[hrmjustin]

52. I think some people who dislike him know would probably prefer he did the scenario you laid out.

Than again some will hate him or love him no matter what.

[TheKentuckian]

56. Yup, not at all or rebranded as "terrorist".

[JoePhilly]

60. He'd still have problems because of the amount of info he took that is not

related to Domestic Surveillance.

[sendero]

61. No...

.. the authoritarians among us would have condemned his actions no matter how he went about it. Best not to pay them any attention at all.