Any updates on the Michael Dunn Jury watch? nt

[avebury]

[tblue37]

1. Lawyer Frederick Leatherman and his very smart readers do a great job of live-blogging trials

like this (including this one) and of analyzing nuances and implications of every aspect, every detail: http://frederickleatherman.com

[Diamonique]

2. Nothing yet.

The jury asked to see the video from the gas station. It was shown to them this morning. Haven't seen/heard anything since then.

I'm at work and can't watch any of that stuff, so I keep up with these high-profile trials at [link:http://www.hlntv.com|. They do live blogging and up-to-the-minute reports.

[alsame]

4. Defense attorney held a

presser earlier - it's exactly what you'd expect

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. Jury asked, "Can we get the dummy with the sticks?"

Yes, they were talking about an actual mannequin.

But I still laughed.

[avebury]

6. I am not familiar with all the evidence that was

presented in court. Do you know if the jury asking for that evidence is good for the prosecution, the defense, or neither?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

7. I think it was introduced by the prosecution.

Since the judge asked the defense attorney if he had any objection. (He didn't.)

It's a trajectory model. My guess is that they're debating first degree versus second degree murder, namely if Dunn was actually targeting the people in the car or simply shooting off randomly into it.

[arthritisR_US]

11. If you ask me that's a stupid question by them,

the pre-meditation comes in by him shooting some shots, no one is firing back so he can stop at that point but he doesn't and then he begins firing again. What or if he hits anyone is a moot point because he was charged with first degree attempted murder, ergo hitting and killing Jordan was first degree murder.

Ed:typo

[alsame]

13. Maybe they're trying to confirm that

Jordan was shot while inside the car, not while attempting to get out, based on where the bullets hit him.

[TorchTheWitch]

19. That's what I think

I believe that they're trying to be very thorough in going over all the evidence, putting it all together and fitting it all with all the various charges.

I haven't seen the testimony of the ME yet on YouTube, but in the prosecutor's closing argument she mentioned that the ME used the dummy and the sticks and her own body to demonstrate exactly where Jordan was and in what position in context to how the car door was positioned with every shot that was fired at him. I think they may be trying to go over that all again themselves to be certain and to make sure they all understand it.

[alsame]

23. It's too bad they weren't

allowed to see the dummy again. I agree they were trying to be thorough.

I don't understand why they can see it in the court room but not during deliberations.

[TorchTheWitch]

32. they can't see it during deliberations because

instead of it being demonstrated to them correctly by an expert in court they're using it themselves gives them the opportunity to NOT use it correctly and come up with false information they would erroneously believe was correct when they don't have the expertise to correctly use them in the first place. The dummy and sticks aren't evidence - they're demonstration tools that only have value when demonstrated correctly by an expert. The jury is only allowed to evaluate evidence as to whether or not it has weight and how much not have an opportunity to manipulate demonstrative tools concerning a piece of evidence that would erroneously provide information that was not given as evidence which would be pretty much the jury creating their own "evidence" and using that "evidence" to come to certain false conclusions.

[alsame]

34. Okay, that makes sense. Maybe they should have

asked to have that portion of the testimony read to them again instead. I can completely understand why that dummy would be important to them.

[TorchTheWitch]

50. I don't know if Florida allows that

I remember in I think it was the Jodi Arias case (though maybe it was the Zimmerman case?) that the jury wanted to see transcripts of testimony and they weren't allowed to - they could only go by either their own memories of the testimony they heard or their own notes. So, I don't know if they'd be able to do that or not.

[alsame]

54. Wow. Then I hope they all took very good

notes.

[okaawhatever]

29. The already mentioned Frederick Leatherman Law Blog does a good job of explaining everything.

he was a law professor so he's good at making people understand what he's saying. You can scroll down through the headlines and find any topic.

http://frederickleatherman.com/

[alsame]

8. Where are you watching? I can't

find a live feed.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. Here's my link:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/02/live-coverage-loud-music-murder-trial-day-4/

The lawyer providing Twitter commentary on the site is a bit of a douche, so don't mind him.

[alsame]

10. Thank you nt

[pintobean]

22. Guy's still abusing that dummy?

[avebury]

12. Interview with Michael Dunn's neighbor.

&feature=youtu.be&sf22781387=1

Sounds like he is a real winner.

[lunasun]

27. +1 insight!

[TorchTheWitch]

35. Holy cow

The things they say about his personality are exactly what I was thinking he was like with his belief that he thinks he's smarter and superior to everyone else and had "gun muscles" as well as being a racist, but he's soooo much worse than I imagined. And so far I've only watched the first video.

[Blus4u]

42. I wouldn't mind having this couple..

..as my neighbors. They sound like pretty good people.

Peace

[Boom Sound 416]

44. For the record

This guy is a Floridian

[pacalo]

76. This is a must-see.

I'm not surprised to hear that Dunn abused his two ex-wives & his children; had serious anger problems; had trouble getting along with others; was arrogant; was a know-it-all who thought he was the smartest person in the room & that he was more intelligent than he actually was; was such an overbearing, controlling father to his son because of his homophobic mindset.

What was eye-opening was what Dunn asked his neighbor to do (no spoiler).

I've just begun to catch up on this trial. I've been reading the threads (all very informative) about it & I'm now in the process of watching the trial videos. This video shows that Dunn has a pattern of handling his anger problems with violence. He's a danger to anyone around him & he belongs in jail (or hospital).

[Cali_Democrat]

78. Bookmarked for later. n/t

[alsame]

14. Jury CAN NOT see the dummy, it

was demonstrative, not evidence.

[alsame]

15. Jury asking for a large

easel and paper.

Also another set of jury instructions because one was missing a few pages.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. The amount of time they've been out has me worried that we're on the

way to another Zimmerman.

[alsame]

17. Asking for the paper and jury instructions

leads me to think they are close to a verdict

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. More charges for them to consider.

With Zimmerman, it was just the second degree murder and manslaughter charge (not sure if there was a battery charge or not), and there was just one victim, Trayvon.

With Dunn, there's First Degree, Second Degree, Manslaughter of Jordan Davis and attempted versions of the same charges for each of the three other passengers, plus two other related charges.

So I wouldn't take too much stock as to how long they've been deliberating.

Just keep Juror B37 far, far away.

[avebury]

24. To me the attempted murder of the other 3

pretty much speaks for itself. What might be taking longer is coming to an agreement on one of the choice regarding the death of Davis.

[geek tragedy]

33. See, to me it's the opposite.

There's no way he didn't murder Davis. Was he also trying to murder the others? Pretty bad shot if he was.

[geek tragedy]

20. He shot at more than one person, so even if they conclude he murdered Davis,

they still have to figure out what his intent was for everyone else in the car.

Did he shoot at them, or was he just shooting at Davis? etc

[TorchTheWitch]

39. They only just started deliberating yesterday at the end of the day!

they need to go over all the jury instructions, chose a foreman, go over all the evidence, etc., and there are many different charges in this case concerning all the boys that were in the car and I think some other charges besides. It's when juries DON'T take much time at all is worrisome. They're SUPPOSED to take the time to evaluate everything and make sure they've come to the right verdict. Besides, I think all juries at first just want the opportunity to finally talk among themselves since they aren't allowed to say anything to anyone about anything until the start of deliberations.

This is also why I really don't like it when juries are sequestered.... it's inevitable that they're going to want to rush through deliberations just so they can finally go home.

[a kennedy]

21. I hope he fries......

smug mug of his...... ugh.

[TorchTheWitch]

40. is this a death penalty case?

I hadn't even thought about that before.

[MoonRiver]

51. No. Maximum penalty is life.

[TorchTheWitch]

52. ok, thanks

That should be easier on the jury then.

[uponit7771]

25. It would've taken me 2 mins... I'm now concerned

[bravenak]

26. I'm worried.

The verdict should be in. Guilty on all counts. This waiting makes my tummy hurt.

[libodem]

28. Yep

[Hassin Bin Sober]

30. It's a little more complicated than that.

They have a choice between 1st degree murder, 2nd degree and manslaughter.

Not to mention the attempted murder charges.

I think he will get 2nd degree. 1st degree, while maybe technically true, is a bit of an over reach.

[bravenak]

31. I know, but, it's obvious.

My stomach still hurts.
2nd degree should be a given, I still think it's first, though.
Attempted murder is obvious on all 3 counts.
Can you tell them what I said and make them hurry up?? Thanks, it would help.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

36. It will happen when it will happen.

You can't necessarily hurry up deliberations. And extended deliberations doesn't necessarily mean an acquittal or hung jury.

My gut still says either 1st or 2nd Degree murder, which means he won't be seeing anything outside of a jail cell for a long, long time, if ever.

[bravenak]

37. You better be right Tommy_Carcetti.

Or I'm going to cry all night again. Please be right. Please.
I'm proceeding to chill the hell out now. Hopefully.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

38. I'd be very surprised if he's not convicted of at least some level of homicide.

Unlike Zimmerman, he had no "life threatening" bloody nose that he can use to weasel his way out of his mess.

[bravenak]

41. Thanks, you made me laugh.

I needed that. He makes Zimmerman look good by comparison. It must be freezing in hell right now.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. Two sides of the same coin, if you ask me. nt

[bravenak]

46. Oooooh, the jury's asking about the letters!

I hope this is good news.

[arthritisR_US]

57. Oh but he had a bruised ego which should

vindicate him in some people's mind

[Tommy_Carcetti]

45. Back on the record.

Question about when one of the letters in evidence was written.

[MoonRiver]

47. Another question from jury:

When was The Black Friday letter written?

[Diamonique]

53. Black Friday letter?

Can someone point me in the direction to see this Black Friday letter? I'm not at all familiar with this.

[alsame]

56. I'm looking too - he wrote a

lot of letters from jail, I don't know which one this is.

[MoonRiver]

59. What I've gleamed is that he wrote this letter to his gf from jail.

It basically presents his self-defense case to her. A judge on HLN is speculating that the jury wanted to know if it was written right after he had been arrested or after he had time to talk with attorneys and come up with a story. In fact, it was written about 6 months after his arrest. Plenty of time to concoct a lie.

[alsame]

60. Thanks. The only excerpts I

could find were the disgusting racist ranting letters. A 'self defense' letter makes more sense for the jury.

[MoonRiver]

61. I think those racist letters were excluded as evidence.

That makes me mad because it goes to motivation. But judges cut defense attorneys a lot of slack.

[alsame]

62. Yep, lots of motivation revealed. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

48. THERE'S A DECISION!

Jurors want to have dinner at the hotel and not the jury room.


Sorry.

[MoonRiver]

49. Kind of makes sense.

This suspense is killing me!

[Boom Sound 416]

68. ...

That's just funny right there

[alsame]

55. LOL, the judge seems like he's really

eager for a verdict tonight.

[MoonRiver]

58. I thought that too! n/t

[lpbk2713]

64. Might be on a tight budget.

Could be he's been told to keep expenses down as much as possible.

[riverwalker]

63. if there were ten shots

and the ME said 3 were fatal to Jordan Davis, did they determine when those fatal 3 were fired?
The video has 4 shots..3 shots..then a long pause..........and 3 more shots (this is when Dunn was out of car and aiming, correct?) Maybe the jury is deciding between 1st and 2nd degree and that's why they wanted the video and the dummy. If Dunn was aiming at a fleeing victim, not just pointing, it is 1st degree.
To me, the fact that he said he was in such terror for his life, yet after shooting, he re holsters the gun, and opens the glove box and puts away the gun.....yet he is in "fear for his life" makes no sense.

[alsame]

65. Jury dismissed for the night. nt

[avebury]

66. They don't seem to be working very hard.

If I were on that jury I would have been so irritated that they weren't brought back in to court until 10am this morning and they went home so early. I can't stand to have my time wasted. I would want to be at court bright and early (at least by 8:30 and work until at least 8 pm). With no internet access, limited TV, etc. I would be just how do you expect me to spend why time waiting to go to court - twiddle my thumbs? The thought of having to back to a hotel room for the evening would drive me nuts but all I would think about is that we (the jurors) have work to do.

I don't think that I would do well on a jury panel that was sequestered.

[Boom Sound 416]

67. So based on what you would do (or whatever)

They aren't working hard?

[avebury]

70. I don't think they are putting enough

hours in the deliberation process. 10 am (if they started on time) to 630 pm is not a long time to spend deliberating today (and that included lunch and whatever breaks they took). When you consider how restrictive your life is supposed to be while being sequestered it is not like there is a whole lot you can do with your free time. I think that it is reasonable to expect them to put in a little more time on a daily basis.

[Boom Sound 416]

71. That's fair

But it ain't up to them now is it?

[avebury]

73. We don't know that.

The court set the start time today but we don't know if they chose when to quit for the evening. We don't know if there was any discussion the night before in the jury room regarding when to start in the morning.

[Boom Sound 416]

75. Well Florida is a right to work state

But I seriously doubt the judge is up, in court anyway, at 8:30.

Here in ny, everything is union and very organized. And in all honestly, I know almost nothing else about court operation. What I do know, is the jurors have very little say in start time and wrap.

[avebury]

72. To be succinct, they are there to get a job done.

If you are paying attention to the trial as it is presented you should have a pretty good idea how you are going to vote by the time you get into the jury room. It becomes a matter of hammering out the differences and clearing up any confusion and reaching a consensus. You can't accomplish that if you are not in the jury room.

[Boom Sound 416]

74. Also fair

And while you're sitting their forming your own opinion (again, fair) you've done everything you've be required to do, but deliberate.

You walk in that room dead set and juror 4 says one sentence and it blows up your whole rationale. Or vice versa.

In your scenario, why even go back. We all saw it, MFer is guilty as hell. Done.

No.

[WinkyDink]

69. And the authorities would be just sit the hell down and think.

[pintobean]

77. The jury has resumed deliberations.

Court is in recess until they hear from the jury.