Stuff like this is why Kansas will always be a flyover state as more people continue to leave!

[RKP5637]

My apologies to any DUers in Kansas, but each day it becomes more and more of a hellhole for everyone in so many ways with the Tea Bagger regime.

http://www.4029tv.com/news/national/Kansas-passes-bill-to-deny-same-sex-couples/24444114

Kansas passes bill to deny same-sex couples
Bill would permit businesses to refuse services to such couples

The legislation, known as House Bill 2453, passed 72-49. It will move next to the state Senate.

The bill reads, in part: "No individual or religious entity shall be required by any governmental entity to do any of the following, if it would be contrary to the sincerely held religious beliefs of the individual or religious entity regarding sex or gender:

"Provide any services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges; provide counseling, adoption, foster care and other social services; or provide employment or employment benefits, related to, or related to the celebration of, any marriage, domestic partnership, civil union or similar arrangement."

"Kansans across the state are rightly appalled that legislators are spending their efforts to pass yet another piece of legislation that seeks to enshrine discrimination against gay and lesbian people into law," said Sandra Meade, state chair of Equality Kansas. "HB 2453 is a blatant attempt to maintain second-class citizen status for taxpaying gay and lesbian Kansans."

[shenmue]

1. Excuse my language but what kind of shmucks still want to live with segregation?

How petty-minded and mean do they have to be?

Why should only cold-hearted fundamentalists have rights?



Sheesh, some people. I swear.

[RKP5637]

8. I never cease to be amazed by stuff like this, we are in the 21st century, but some

just refuse to join the rest of humanity.

[ReRe]

74. It's outright discrimination!

Is? It?? Not???

[RKP5637]

75. Definitely, and the amazing part, they want laws passed to allow them to

discriminate while at the same time saying discrimination is horrible. These people are really sick and do not play with rationale minds.

[ReRe]

76. Exactly...

... the key word being "rational." I hope they get sued soon and that it goes all the way to the Supreme Court. I've never heard of a more irrational law. Crazy people. "Kansas:The Taliban State!"

[Aerows]

2. That bill

looks like it would allow discrimination against everyone. Obviously it is aimed at LGBT people, but it basically allows discrimination by claiming religious objection to anything.

[RKP5637]

7. Yep! See my post #5. n/t

[KatyMan]

3. How long before it's expanded to mixed race couples?

Or christian/non-christian marriages?

[RKP5637]

5. Exactly, it's the same type of stuff. Some people sometimes say oh, that's just

gays, but what they sometimes don't get is the methodology is the same, just the labels will change, be that label race, religion, sex, whatever ... because it's a mind set many people have that get off on persecution, discrimination, bigotry and hatred. We have seen it over and over in history, and also what often happens as the society sinks lower and lower. First they come for them, and then they come for you.

[DonViejo]

4. Not sure this bill will ever see the light of day...

Kan. Senate president: Bill that allows service refusal to same-sex couples on religious grounds unlikely to pass

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024498823

[RKP5637]

6. Thanks for the link! n/t

[DonViejo]

9. You're welcome! eom

[libdem4life]

18. That's what I was thinking. They just need to conjure up a few more hayseed votes.

[cui bono]

10. They're trying to enact laws that would let them do as they please.

This is like stand your ground in that they are saying they get to do whatever they feel/believe at the time. That's not what laws are supposed to be.

[RKP5637]

20. Exactly, it's kind of like a door to door salesman trying to get their foot

in the door. They know full well as they break down barriers, they can then spread this to other things.

[raven mad]

11. Has Kansas really returned to pre-Lincoln days?

Yes, I guess they have.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Well, it's against my religious beliefs to acknowledge or provide serviles to

people who would support this disgusting bill.

[dickthegrouch]

13. I hope the legislature likes the stink of "Decomp"

If this is taken to its logical conclusion it will be impossible to bury or cremate anyone whose gender or sexuality is not of the acceptable kind.

I suggest all those people refused burial arrange to have their remains deposited in the Chamber of horrors^H^H^H^H^H^H^H the house.

[prairierose]

14. They tried to pass that same ALEC bill here in SD, but...

it didn't make it out of committee. Somebody started a moveon petition( or maybe change.org) and in a very short period of time (I think 3 days), there were so many thousands of signatures that apparently it scared some of the repigs in the legislature. So, we had a big win on that one.

[AnalystInParadise]

15. I don't mean to be an ass but Kansas' growth rate is the same as New York State

1.4% Granted New York is much larger in population, but teabaggers have kids......

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/20000.html

[RKP5637]

24. Thanks for the link! It's interesting for this and also as a future reference! Thanks again!

[MuseRider]

16. THE BILL HAS BEEN STOPPED

by an avalanche of people calling and writing. We have been on top of this from the beginning.

http://cjonline.com/news/2014-02-14/senate-leaders-expect-changes-religious-freedom-bill


Now for the part you REALLY don't want to hear. The Democratic House leader, who is our candidate for governor, called this bill a distraction and thought it was fine to just let the Republicans own this. He lost his chance to be an actual leader and be out front of this. It is overwhelmingly apparent that the citizens of Kansas are outraged over this bill and the Dems would not even try to help us stop this in the House. When we brought forth our amendments they refused to even read them on the floor. So we went to the Republicans and our amendments were read. This bill is being stopped by Republicans.

[geek tragedy]

17. it's been stopped to make it more business-friendly so that companies can fire

workers more easily.

they didn't mention the fact that state and county services can be denied if the local county clerk is a bigoted fuckwit, which is pretty likely in many cases.

[MuseRider]

19. Excuse me.

I am involved in this.

There is nothing more now than the fact that it will not be voted on in it's current form.

There is much to be done and there is a lot of discussion going on. Our lobbyist lives with me during session. I can hear him on the phone upstairs talking to people. He will be interviewed tomorrow morning, 7:30 central time (so far that is the time) on CNN perhaps you should watch and catch up with things.

Just guessing the intentions of people is wrong. You have no idea what the Republican leaders of the Senate have been saying today or what the overall feeling of this state is right now regarding this issue.

[RKP5637]

21. Thanks for the update on this. n/t

[MuseRider]

22. You are welcome!

Ex Kansan, good to see you.

We are 2 for 2 right now. We defeated the bill that would have criminalized surrogate parenting and now this. Both bills dead.

***Note, I say we because I am involved with the group fighting this, was a founder, but am not terribly active at this point. I am not doing any more than any active citizen at this point. I wrote testimony that was given to the House committee and will be there lobbying this month. I just did not want to take more credit than is due.

[RKP5637]

23. This is great to hear! Kansas is a conundrum to me, there are some wonderful

people in Kansas and I always thought some interesting areas, yet stuff like this gets proposed. I hope the scourge that Kansas is currently dealing with gets corrected in the coming elections.

Great hearing from you too!

[CTyankee]

25. You are to be commended. Many of us, me included, are in safe blue states where lots of people

agree with us and our state lege's are models of democratic ideals. You have a difficult road, requiring a great deal of courage. I salute you and your comrades in arms!

[MuseRider]

28. Thank you.

I don't think I would want to live in a place where everything was pretty much like I want it to be. Not that I would not appreciate it but actually getting into the belly of the beast is kinda fun from time to time but it keeps me on my toes and awake.

Just following the footsteps of former family members.

[CTyankee]

31. I wish you the best, MuseRider!

[MuseRider]

34. One reason I am no spokesperson

is that I would be putting my foot in my mouth all the time. Being an ally it is important to think of things not in your own terms. I just mentioned to you how I sometimes enjoy the fight or something like that and re-reading it I see how totally callous that might sound. It is important work and I have been blessed to be able to help in some of it.

Thank you for your wishes.

[dballance]

27. Surrogate parenting? They wanted to outlaw surrogate parenting?

I just can't believe these people.

Good for you for getting the movement started even if you don't have time to be involved now.

[MuseRider]

32. This is Tea Bagger heaven

every single thing they are proposing is a way to pre-empt what the Federal government might do.

There is a bill to make it a felony to put the endangered Prairie Chicken on the endangered list.

This Religious Freedom bill is to prevent any Federal law that requires people to treat LGBT equally.

The surrogate bill would have affected everyone but the woman that was one of the authors of the bill told people it was mainly to stop LGBT people from having children willy nilly this way as a status symbol.

There is no way to fathom the cruel imaginations of these people running my state. Every day tops the one before.

I am involved now, just not as involved as before. It was actually a great adventure learning how to do all of this and my life has improved so so much since I got involved and made so many new friends. It has been a big gain for me.

[G_j]

53. we are having some serious problems here in NC also, does ALEC have any connection

to these bills?

[MuseRider]

54. I don't know exactly

but I do know that many of our bills are straight out of the ALEC playbook. I have heard that your state is another target. So sorry, much of what I see looks awfully familiar.

[G_j]

56. whats going is incredibly destructive,

the playbook is for real.

[MuseRider]

58. Yes it is.

I have seen some of what is going on in NC and I have felt the pang of sympathy. It is very real and very destructive. I am so sorry. It is a very hard and exhausting battle and sadly a good part of the battle is just keeping your heart up when you come to DU and get slammed all over the place even when you win one. *sigh* Hang tough.

[G_j]

59. we are fortunate in that we have a strong NAACP

with a president who is a force to be reckoned with. William Barber started Moral Mondays, which has become a powerful movement against the wrecking ball. Over the last year, hundreds of citizens have been arrested in civil disobedience. Over 80,000 people just demonstrated here as part of the ongoing movement, and of course, the corporate media ignored it.

[MuseRider]

60. I read about it here

and I think I did see something about it on one of the MSNBC shows in the evening. I have been really impressed with the amount you can mobilize! Good job. I like your Moral Mondays. Here it is almost impossible to get anything going like that. We are going to have some rallies and we have the Equality Kansas lobby day coming up so we will see what kind of news that generates.

Keep up the good work. Don't let it get you down.

[G_j]

61. you too!

it is a battle, we won't give up. Solidarity Kansas!

[MuseRider]

62. Solidarity

North Carolina

[MuseRider]

67. I have more information.

It appears that ALEC is not the moving force behind this bill. It looks like this one is from that big DC group working on Religious Freedom. I don't know who they are myself but have heard about them.

The Chamber of Commerce in Topeka came out strongly against this bill. If this had been the Koch brothers ALEC that would not have happened, IMO. It is also probably a good part of the Republicans loss of taste for this bill. I had not seen their statement until just this morning.

[geek tragedy]

26. You're in a better position than I. Statements

from business community cited the bill's interference with at-will employment--that's what I was basing it on.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

52. jeezus h christ!

great job doing the activism!


and, the part I really didn't want to hear. You're right. I really didn't want to hear that.

[AlinPA]

70. It passed the House from what I read. Senate should easily pass it according to this Slate

article and the Governor would sign it into law. I hope it is stopped and that this article jumped before it had all the facts.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_gay_segregation_bill_is_an_abomination.html

[MuseRider]

71. I just replied to you in another thread.

It is dead as is right now. This bill will not see the light of day in the Senate. You can thank the citizens that all love to wail away on most of the time for a least having the brains and heart not to let this get any further.

This bill was pushed so fast nobody had time to do much.

[AlinPA]

72. Thanks again. BTW the same thing could happen in PA with the GOP controlling the House, Senate,

and Governorship. (All the crazy teabaggers and fundamentalist crazies.)

[MuseRider]

73. They are certainly an organized

bunch of little bigots aren't they?

[Beartracks]

29. It's time to start a religion that regards the Tea Party as an abomination.

=================

[FiveGoodMen]

33. Christianity would be such a religion

if it stuck to the principles of its founder.

[RKP5637]

39. Awhile back I was talking with a religious friend and I remarked some of the 10

commandments made some sense. Then, I happened to do a net search and I was amazed to find how maligned and twisted they have become as some rewrite everything to suit their twisted minds/needs.

[RKP5637]

35. They are an abomination! I'm not a religious person, but we all went to church in my youth. I was

in the youth choir, the church also supported our boy scout troop, I was an usher in church all of that. NEVER did I ever hear this religious BULLSHIT of today by Tea Baggers and the like.

My father was a major local politician, I think he felt all of us going to church was good political press.

That all said, I retained the good things about religion from way back then, and we had what seemed a highly educated liberal minister.

What the Tea Baggers practice is completely antithetical to my religious experience in my youth. The Tea Baggers have all of the characteristics we were taught not to be like. In my church, the Tea Baggers would have been seen as disciples from hell, the embodiment of Satan, as very evil people.

In essence, the Tea Baggers are all members of "The Church of Hatred and Deception."

[quaker bill]

40. One already exists

[MuseRider]

30. Anyone who wants to know where this is at this point

watch Al Jazeera America tonight at 9 central time. Tom Witt, our lobbyist will be interviewed.

CNN tomorrow morning 7 or 7:30AM as well.

[RKP5637]

36. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[RKP5637]

41. That, was quite interesting. What a convoluted bizarre interpretation of discrimination, they

want the right to discriminate because not having the right to discriminate would be an act of discrimination against religion. It tells me where their heads are with respect to religion, they want the right to hate, be bigots and to have legalized discrimination. In essence, they want to go against why this country was founded.

[MuseRider]

43. Glad you saw it.

I know. My head hurts trying to decipher what they are trying to say and do. It is always backwards, then forwards and then sideways and backwards again and it still never makes sense. I have noticed certain ways the language is used to confuse and I see it coming up in lots of states. I suspect, probably a pretty good suspicion, that it is all coming out of ALEC. If people listen to this crap and decide they are right then I simply have to give up. I can't even make sense out of their convoluted laws half the time.

Yes, it is almost always against why this country was founded. I think they know they can talk around those less informed and more easily confused and make this work. I think that perhaps in many places where this worked before there are now people ready to stop this before people just give up and say ok.

Hope this made sense. I am drinking a margarita and, well......

Tom did a good job. I am proud of him. I will make him a special Margarita tomorrow when he gets back.

[RKP5637]

46. Have one for me too! Phew, just listening to these people lowers ones IQ 20 points. n/t

[MuseRider]

48. That is all I needed was a reason to have another ;-) n/t

[kelly1mm]

37. Technically, KS population has increased every decade but the 1930's, so people

are not exactly leaving the state. However, you point still stands.

[RKP5637]

38. Here's the article I was thinking of, but maybe it's just into the future. ... not saying

it's right or wrong, just the one I was thinking of.

http://cjonline.com/news/2012-05-29/study-kansas-population-drop-more

Study: Kansas' population to drop more

By 2040, four counties will have fewer than 1,000 residents
Posted: May 29, 2012 - 5:31am

By The Associated Press
WICHITA — A decades-long decline in population is likely to continue in Kansas, particularly in the west of the state, and four counties could have fewer than 1,000 residents by 2040, according to a study by Wichita State University’s Center for Economic Development and Business Research.

Census figures have detailed the decline for years, most recently showing that 77 of Kansas’ 105 counties lost population in the last decade. The population of 41 Kansas counties peaked in 1910 or earlier and 28 counties haven’t recorded a population increase from one census to the next since 1940, not even during the post-World War II baby boom, The Hutchinson News reported.

[RKP5637]

44. It's a pit with the Tea Bagger regime. And, TPTB in Kansas want to roll their

Tea Baggery out across all of the US and the Koch Brothers are in the works. There are some very good people in Kansas, but they get steamrolled. The goal with the Koch Brothers is to make the US just like Kansas.

[MuseRider]

47. Thank you.

People like to scream and yell and get all upset about the Koch brothers but never seem to remember that they are based in Kansas and have complete control of our government here. The fact that we have stopped this bill, especially this quickly, is actually amazing even to us who worked on stopping this.

[RKP5637]

50. Maybe a turning point is being reached? With all of the stuff that has been going on

in Kansas with the Tea Baggers, maybe this has gone one step too far. I would think at this stage many would be wondering what's next and will it be them next time around. Maybe this is turning into a wake up call for Kansans to vote these creeps out.

[William769]

51. I self deleted.

I'm just not in the fucking mood this evening.

[RKP5637]

63. Some days just boggle the mind. Incredible, they want legalized discrimination to

protect their discrimination and right to discriminate enacted into law. Next, they will want to replace the gay with people of color, then perhaps to take it to the next step of people of the wrong religion or no religion. ... absolutely astounding this kind of sh** goes on. Apparently it will never pass the senate but the fact it raises its ugly head is concerning. One article I read said many Kansans are fed up with this and are inundating the senate with complaints.

That said, people need to watch Kansas, there is so much money behind was is going on in Kansas as they try to roll it out across the US.

[MuseRider]

64. "That said, people need to watch Kansas, there is so much money behind was is going on in Kansas as

they try to roll it out across the US." <-------------********** THAT is what people need to be aware of. This is not all about crazy teabagger Kansans, this is about co-opting a state and turning it into crazy by taking out every other possible option except perhaps crazier. THEN they roll it out elsewhere.

This is already being seen in other states where their bills are almost exactly like ours. Testing and testing, moving and pushing until they get in.

I am actually encouraged by the movement of the people of Kansas on this issue. Encouraged and surprised. Perhaps they have a no cross line after all. I was beginning to wonder. It all remains to be seen.

I do know one thing. These people are going for the gold, they will not stop and it will get harder and harder to fight as they change the rules that allow us to fight. We are going to have one great big fight over judges again I am afraid. We have to win that.

[RKP5637]

65. Most people, as I understand, do not bother to vote for the judges. I did and I found it

a huge task to find out background information on judges running. Some were easy, but for others the information was really obscure. It was also really made difficult when TPTB in Kansas threw out the peer review website on judges.

I forget now what it was called, but when Brownbackistan was established, it seemed that was one of the first things thrown out. Hence, it doesn't take much effort to undermine the judicial system in the US. It is dangerous and will vastly deteriorate any sense of a democracy, and people will wake up when it's too late.

Far too many take for granted what we do have left in America will just continue on with no effort on their part. Many Americans IMO just do not understand the vast amounts of money working to basically overthrow the US.

I just don't think many Americans yet understand there is a major war going on in the US to take away most of their rights and to institute something like what is happening in Kansas. Way too many Americans are naive, too trusting, and take for granted what they hear is truthful. I haven't read it yet, but I saw one DU headline this morning about the Koch Brothers, for example, hiring paid actors down in Louisiana to trash ACA.

My fear sometimes is that Idiocracy in America is getting so established that many Americans have lost the ability to think for themselves, to really understand the issues and to vote accordingly. Rather, they often fall for propaganda, distortions and illusions which least serve their interests for a better society. Rather, they vote to enslave themselves even more.

[MuseRider]

66. Oh I am right there with you but

I suppose because of the basic emotions that people do not really like to infringe on others rights, at least on a level of this bill there is a line too far to cross. Maybe. They are perfectly happy to consider making women nothing more than incubators because !babies! but to actively crush an entire group of people just to be mean is too far. This was the first thing the house did, the first item on that committees agenda was to make the LGBT TAX PAYING CITIZENS have a harder time living. That is too far for even this state. (I say these things from the edge knowing full well tomorrow could change it all)

Brownback tried to get a bill into law last session. I do not know exactly what happened, it is very very important but I was busy with other very important crap this state hands us out to deal with every single damned day, but this is the gist of it. Sam wanted to have all the terms of the Kansas Supreme Court Judges ended so we could get new judges who would have life time appointments like SCOTUS. The catch was that the judges we have now, who were elected, would be out and Sammy could appoint all our Supreme Court Judges for life! See how wonderfully that would work? It got only so far and then I lost track since I knew it was not going anywhere last year. The details I could find if you want them.

It is incredibly hard to get information on judges. Same with people running for the BOE. You can find out if their church is important to them and if they do volunteer work for children and if they have families but very little else. It is extremely frustrating.

I ran into Sam a month or so ago, and I mean RAN into him. I was leaving the Capitol and he was coming in, there was still construction so there was only one door and I yanked the door right out of his hand and ran smack into him. Now I have known Sam for a long time. His kids went to school with my kids, he was at my house when the kids had birthday parties. He son played tennis with my kids and I worked the school lunchroom from time to time with his wife, we bought an auction item at a school fundraiser to tour DC and he took us all over the halls of Congress and he looked at me and introduced himself like he had never seen me before in his life. What a jerk. I reminded him who I was and he was all, "Oh yeah! I knew you looked familiar." then introduced me to his sister. I went home as quickly as I could and washed my hands.

I think we have hit a tipping point. Now we just have to keep blowing stuff up (sorry Agent Mike not bomb blowing up just rhetoric blowing up and stirring trouble in the legislative bodies of our states).

[RKP5637]

68. If I bumped into Sam, I would do a whole body wash with sanitizer, I think. No, don't

look for the link for KS Supreme Court Judges for life, I can imagine the gory details. I'm pleased we are all gone, but I did meet some very nice people in Kansas. Our neighbors were incredibly nice. It's so sad what is being done to the state of Kansas. There are some good things about Kansas, but it is being so trashed with the current regime. It's all so hateful and backward. Thanks for your conversations!

[MuseRider]

69. I appreciate the conversation

it is fun to talk with you. I hope you are in a better situation where you are now.

We will see how this goes. I just think there has been a tipping point with all the crazy. Everything is being done to pre-empt the Federal government and people are getting confused and upset by it all. Now a new bill stating that Kansas does not have to follow any potential Federal guidelines on climate change and that it would be illegal to do things under the thought of climate change or some crazy stupid tea baggy thing. If it did not hurt so much I would go to the State House just to laugh at them.

I don't think most people here, even if they do not like Obama, are for going it alone. It is already costing us plenty as this state continues to turn down Federal dollars. Dollars the people need for services they want and our leaders are saying no, take it back our state does not want your help. It is scaring folks I think, I know it is scaring me.

Anyway, there are actually many good things about Kansas and perhaps it takes being born here to be able to look passed the crazy and see it. I know if I did not have history here I would have left long ago. Ahh well so I stay and fight.

[MuseRider]

57. Well in some cases, but as you know

many people have no choice. Primaries are whacko vs crazier whacko then there is no democratic opposition. Many places have no choice. I know even voting in Shawnee County there are often only Republicans running for some offices.

When the Dems don't support candidates, and they don't, there is just no way. I know I certainly would never vote for someone I did not even know existed until I saw the name on my ballot. We will see. It is getting pretty oppressive. I don't know how much they will take. If they would only look at their own legislator and follow how they vote things could change maybe but most don't know and there is nobody to bring the information up to them.

[MuseRider]

45. Jesus William

we are stopping this. The PEOPLE of Kansas are outraged and have stopped the bill.

There are more than a few decent people here or this would have passed and become law by now.

I have never seen such a groundswell from the citizens as this, never. They are done with this.

I also have never seen that poll. Our polling is much much closer and it was from 4 or 5 years ago. The people here have not gotten more divided on this issue.

[William769]

49. I apologize If I offended.

But between Uganda & the U.S. Fundies + Russia and a couple of other places. I am just not in a good mood today.

[MuseRider]

55. Oh god I DO understand.

Those things may not affect me or my life directly as an ally but I can tell you that as an ally they hurt my soul very deeply.

I just want people to know that there is hope. As difficult as it is here and as small as the things are we have to call success we are making progress.

I do understand. There have just been so many that seem to want to ignore the progress that we worked so hard on and just scream at us without giving any credit to the people of this state who have turned completely around on this issue.

[RoverSuswade]

77. The words "any similar arrangement" should be cause for alarm.

That could be far-reaching such as two sisters living together in the same house, a widow moving in with a widower, or even two college kids sharing a dorm room. Kansas better be careful.