Day 4 Jury Deliberations - Loud Music Murder Case

[MoonRiver]

sigh

[jsr]

1. Sounds like somebody is trying to convince a holdout

[MoonRiver]

2. Oh to be a fly on the wall.

No doubt the jurors will have some "interesting" stories after the trial.

[alsame]

3. Please let it happen today. I can't even imagine

the anguish of Jordan's family as they wait.

[MoonRiver]

4. They must be desperate for both justice and closure! nt

[alsame]

9. Tomorrow is

his birthday, he would have been 19

[MoonRiver]

10. Oh, I didn't know that.

[gollygee]

5. Loving thoughts to his family!

This must be a very difficult time for them.

[OKNancy]

6. In case anyone wants this

https://twitter.com/VinniePolitan

This is the lawyer who does Headline News. He can be a jerk sometimes, but his twitter is pretty fair IMO.
"just the facts" is mostly what he tweets.

[Bjorn Against]

7. I suspect there is at least one racist scumbag on the jury

I am now convinced we are going to have a hung jury, I hope I am wrong and we get a conviction but that is looking like a long shot to me now. They have had lots of time to go over the evidence and it is hard for me to believe these are still careful deliberations, it is far more likely at this point that there is a racist gun nut on the jury who won't convict.

[MoonRiver]

8. My guess is we'll at least get convictions for the attempted murder charges and firing into a car.

Total maximum for those counts is 75 years. So, even under that scenario, Mr. Dunn is looking at serious hard time.

[Bjorn Against]

14. I hope you are right but I am skeptical

Considering the jury question from yesterday I suspect some jurors are trying to negotiate a deal like that, but they obviously have not agreed on such a deal yet because they are still in deliberations. If there is someone who is refusing to convict on murder, I have a hard time seeing such a person convict on attempted murder. Considering how long it has taken them I think they will hang on all charges, I hope I am proven wrong and he gets convicted but things are not looking good to me now.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. My dad is convinced of the exact opposite...because jurors have been shown to be idiots

in these cases. He believes there are 1 or 2 who are sticking to a murder 1 conviction, based on the Zimmerman trial. If that is a case, I hope the jury hangs up.

[Bjorn Against]

26. I guess we will see who is right, it is all speculation at this point

I admit I may be wrong in my assessment, it is the scenario that makes most sense to me but I acknowledge that I have little knowledge of what is happening in the jury room. If your Dad is correct however and the majority wants to acquit then I will be very depressed, it saddens me that anyone would believe Dunn's actions to be justified.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. It saddens me that this really should have been a slam dunk based on the shoot and leave

and then order a pizza.

[avebury]

11. If I were on the jury

and the issue was hanging on 1st, 2nd, manslaughter and it looked like he would walk on the death of the kid I would hang the jury at 1st to get a mistrial on the murder charge in order to give the prosecutors a chance to retry the charge. Not only that, if they got some decent convictions on some of the other charges with significant prison time that might force Dunn to try to get a plea deal on the murder charge. If you really feel strong about Dunn's guilt and there is one asshole on the jury it becomes all about trying to position the results as best as you can to give the prosecutors a second bite at the apple.

[MoonRiver]

13. That makes good sense.

Wish the holdout on Zimmerman's trial had done that.

[avebury]

16. Unfortunately I don't think they picked

the most intelligent group of people for the Zimmerman trial.

[TheDebbieDee]

37. No disrespect intended but I don't think the average juror

Knows that much about how the judicial system works to strategize like that.

I wouldn't know to do that and I don't think most people would.

[avebury]

49. It really becomes a game between the different

factions in the jury room. Strategy is a part of life from how you conduct business, play electronic games, etc. It just becomes a matter of bringing it into the jury room. In the Zimmerman trial you probably had one half intelligent person fighting for no guilty and the rest were what I would call sheep who didn't now enough intelligence or were not confident enough to take a position and fight for that position. As a result, the one person ran right over the rest of the jurors and Zimmerman walked.

If there is one gun nut/racist nut who is trying to convince the others that Dunn was in fear for his life I would hope that there was at least one person there who can see what is happening and position themselves to minimize the damage on the nut.

[asjr]

12. I actually thought this would be

a no-brainer. The man shot a car full of holes and killed one person in the car. Then he left the scene of the crime.

[MoonRiver]

15. It is a no-brainer, unless you add a gun loving, racist asshole to the mix.

I suspect there is at least one of those on this jury.

[avebury]

18. That is when you need someone on the jury

that has really strong convictions as to Dunn's guilt and can outwit the gun nut. You push to get what convictions you can get and hang the jury on the highest level of any other charges. That way, Dunns convicted on some charges and (hopefully) significant prison time, the Prosecution can refile the charges that weren't settled, and maybe even leverage Dunn into a plea deal in exchange for concurrent sentences instead of consecutive sentences.

I think that sometimes jury duty is all about who can play the game better then their opponents when there is dissent.

[MoonRiver]

21. I don't think those two AA women are going to fold to any racist(s),

if there is one or more.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

27. Unfortunately that one on the Zimmerman case did fold to B37.

Let's hope they hold strong.

[Logical]

19. I assume they have one extreme racist asshole they can't convince. nt

[skeewee08]

20. My nerves are getting to me

Hubby & I was up late last night discussing this case.....

[alsame]

22. Jury question

Is the defense of self-defense separate for each person in each count?

If we determine deadly force is justified against one person is it justified against others?

[avebury]

24. That is interesting.

He most certainly cannot use the self defense argument against the other 3 boys in the car as he never claimed that any of them ever go out of the vehicle.

It sounds like it is the murder charge that they are hung up on and they are working on consensus on the attempted murder charges.

[MoonRiver]

28. Yes, I haven't heard about that question.

???

[skeewee08]

25. Was that ? Asked this morning?

N/T

[alsame]

29. Yes, a few miinutes ago. nt

[Diamonique]

32. That jury question is scary

It seems they are seriously looking at self defense for the murder charge, which would mean not guilty on that charge. How they can even consider self defense is beyond me.

[alsame]

34. I agree. Who are

these people???

[avebury]

23. I think it was the Asian juror who, when asked

what time they wanted to start on Saturday, said something like 7:30, we have a lot of work to do.

[avebury]

30. It makes you wonder if they are going to

decide that Dunn's shooting of Davis was justifiable as self defense and they are now looking at the attempted murder charges. Self defense has to apply to each and every count. Just because they might find the shooting justifiable against Davis not not mean that it automatically transfer to the other charges. It will be interesting to see what they come back with at the end of their deliberations. I think that, unbelievable as it may seem, he will walk on at least some of the charges.

[alsame]

33. Me too. It sounds like they are

believing self defense against Jordan

[skeewee08]

39. Please say it ain't so....

[Tommy_Carcetti]

35. If Dunn is acquitted of Davis' murder but convicted of the attempted murder of the others...

...and he receives a sentence that pretty much guarantees he'll be in prison for the rest of his life, the question becomes, is it still justice?

I guess it depends on which way you look at it.

[alsame]

42. IMO it is not

justice, but it does at least get this sicko off the street so he can't kill anyone else.

My problem if he is acquitted is that the message gets sent yet again that it's open season to shoot and kill with impunity as long as you claim you felt threatened. This has got to stop.

[proudretiredvet]

41. I agree with you

But I'm still trusting that there are some good people in that jury room who are doing the best job then can.

Due to the many different answers to the same question here I'm thinking about starting a new business. I'm going to open shop and start doing maintenance on crystal balls. Some of them need polished badly. Some are just blurry and opaque, but a couple have one answer scratched into them that fits all questions and situations.

[avebury]

31. At least Dunn is not totally happy.

Andrew Branca, LOSD ‏@LawSelfDefense 2m

Dunn argued that the whole series of events was intrinsically intertwined. But that's not the law. Each charge separate. #dunntrial

[skeewee08]

36. Ok I just saw it on CNN

Sounds like their confused about self defense on the other 3 kids??!!!

[proudretiredvet]

45. I do not like this prosecutor.

I think justice has already been sacrificed for her political aspirations in the GZ case.
BUT, she has no control over what is going on right now.

[madville]

47. She always over-charges cases

It was a slam dunk 2nd degree or manslaughter murder case. Charging premeditated 1st degree was a reach and I think only serves to confuse the jury and make them start doubting everything.

[MoonRiver]

51. They can still convict him of 2nd or Manslaughter!

But I think 1st was warranted. ME evidence and testimony proved that Jordan did not leave the car and confront Dunn. No gun was found. Dunn had to think through getting his gun out of the glove compartment, aiming and shooting at an unarmed teen. First degree premeditated murder.

[OKNancy]

43. Live Stream when the court is in session

http://globalgrind.com/2014/02/12/day-7-michael-dunn-jordan-davis-murder-trial-livestream/

and another good twitter person to follow: https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik

[HipChick]

44. Where can you follow the coverage on TV?

[MoonRiver]

52. HLN is probably the best network to watch. I've got it on mute just waiting for "something." nt

[madville]

46. I think part of the extended deliberations

Have to do in part with the state overcharging by going with 1st degree murder. I just don't see how it was premeditated.

If they had gone after 2nd degree it would probably be over now with pretty much the same outcome, the nut spending the rest of his life locked up.

[avebury]

53. The development of premeditation has no

time frame. It can happen is as little as a few seconds. We had a trial here a while back where premeditation was a big factor and thus discussed a lot in the news. In the case here, the shooter is sitting in prison right now despite some people thinking that he was a hero to shoot and kill the black kid. In reality, it was a pretty open and shut case for conviction.

[alsame]

50. Florida's tough "10-20-Life" law

Florida's tough "10-20-Life" law could mean a life sentence even without a murder conviction

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A first-degree murder conviction isn't necessary for an effective life sentence for Michael Dunn, because of Florida's tough "10, 20, Life" sentencing law.

That law applies a sentence of 10 years for employing a gun in the commission of a crime, 20 years for firing the gun in the commission of a crime, and 25 to life for injuring or killing someone with a gun.

Even if the jury fails to convict on a first or second degree murder charge in the November 2012 death of Jordan Davis, it's possible jurors could find Dunn guilty of three charges of attempted murder -- one for each surviving teen. Dunn has admitted firing at the vehicle as it left the Gate gas station, and surveillance tapes capture a few-second delay before the final volley of shots were fired. If the jury believes those shots were not fired in self defense, Dunn could be convicted of three attempted murder charges -- each a gun crime, with a minimum sentence of 20 years. Unless those sentences were served concurrently -- something court watchers familiar with Judge Russell Healey's tough reputation believe is unlikely -- Dunn would be facing a 60-year minimum prison sentence.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/michael-dunn-trial/2014/02/14/dunn-life-sentence/5485419/