what can you say? VW workers reject union

[cali]

The UAW suffered a devastating defeat at Volkswagen's plant here as workers rejected union representation by a 712-626 margin.

The defeat, which came despite Volkswagen's neutrality, tarnishes UAW President Bob King's legacy and could make it next to impossible for the union to extend its reach beyond domestic automakers.

"While we certainly would have liked a victory for workers here, we deeply respect the Volkswagen Global Group Works Council, Volkswagen management and (German union) IG Metall for doing their best to create a free and open atmosphere for workers to exercise their basic human right to form a union," King said in a statement.

<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/14/vw-workers-vote-against-uaw/5500897/

Americans are stupid and brainwashed.

At least a lot of them are.

[rustydog]

1. People voting against their own self-interests

I feel for them. they did vote, they made their bed.

[oldhippie]

24. Is it possible that .....

... you are mis-assuming (is that a word?) what they think their best interests are?

[bravenak]

2. You have to understand fear to understand folks that vote against themselves.

I feel sorry for them.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. ...

[Vashta Nerada]

4. Why????

Why did they reject a union???

[spanone]

5. political intimidation from governor and u.s. senator

not to mention state congress that threatened to take incentives away from vw plant

[ChisolmTrailDem]

6. Because they are rightwingnut stupid fucks and they proved it. Simple...

[goldent]

12. I think voting is based on a couple of factors

1. How the workers felt VW was treating them and how the relationship was
2. How the workers feel about unions personally
3. Whether the workers felt they would get back more than they paid on union dues

[PoliticAverse]

14. Some of the employees who rejected the union give their reasons in this article...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/union-vote-at-volkswagen-tennessee-plant-heading-to-close-2014-02-14-74491318

[Hoyt]

17. Good find.

""I just don't trust them," said Danielle Brunner, 23, who has worked at the plant for nearly three years and makes about $20 an hour—about $5 an hour more than new hires at GM, Ford and Chrysler plants."

In that area of the country, $20/hour is good money.

I'm not saying the vote was best for them long-term, but a lot of the workers are really glad to have a job like that. Beats picking cotton, so to speak.

[newblewtoo]

7. Can someone explain

to me what the deal is about "work councils"? I am unclear on that whole part of things. Are they like 'quality circles' or what exactly are they and why would they be illegal? I have yet to read a good explanation.

Now for an aside, although I went to school in the South, I have lived my entire life in New England. I am both shocked and embarrassed the way some on this board always tend to brush the entire South as nothing more than a bunch of bumpkins and hillbillies. Don't you believe it for a minute, we have as many of that type right here in New England as they do down South. Let's not turn this into a "bash the South" thread there have been enough of those already.

[cali]

10. I don't single out the south. I didn't say southerners. I said Americans

and in light of the post about how 25% of Americans don't know that the earth revolves around the sun, I feel justified in saying that americans are (generally, and in a myriad of ways) stupid.

[Fumesucker]

11. There can never ever be enough bash the South threads

It's a DU tradition..



I can't tell you the number of times I've pointed out that the Midwest is considerably more conservative than the South overall.

[PoliticAverse]

15. You can read more about 'works council's in this article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/02/10/why-volkswagen-is-helping-a-union-organize-its-own-plant/

And on this Wikipedia page...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council

[goldent]

20. I can't understand either how workers councils could be illegal

How can it be illegal for management and the labor force to meet to discuss issues? Of course I know nothing of labor laws, and sometimes there are unintended consequences of laws.

[dsc]

23. there are laws banning companies from forming unions

and the works councils, without an outside union, run afowl of those laws.

[Le Taz Hot]

8. No, "Americans" aren't all stupid,

only some of them. I'd like to make it a regional thing but the majority of Califorinans voted in Ahnie. Twice.

[Politicalboi]

32. But he was in Terminator

"I'll be back" and all that.

[Fumesucker]

9. I suspect a number of the workers see the union as just another layer of asses to kiss

No one has stood up for the average worker in the South in living memory, why would these workers think that someone (the union) would stick up for them now?

Seriously, having someone give a damn about them is completely beyond their experience.

[notemason]

13. I freed a thousand slaves

I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.
Harriet Tubman

[panader0]

16. Isn't it a Right to work state?

Right-to-work law


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





A "right-to-work" law is a statute in the United States that prohibits union security agreements, or agreements between labor unions and employers, that govern the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring. "Right-to-work" laws do not, as the short phrase might suggest, aim to provide a general guarantee of employment to people seeking work, but rather are a government regulation of the contractual agreements between employers and labor unions that prevents them from excluding non-union workers,[1] or requiring employees to pay a fee to unions that have negotiated the labor contract all the employees work under.
>snip<

The workers who didn't want join, would not have to pay dues, yet would still receive the same benefits. Is this not so?
The UAW would probably have more luck elsewhere.
Years ago, I was hired here in Az for a job on a US military base. Az is a right to work state, but the job was on a federal base, negating the law. The company was union and told us that all would have to join the bricklayer's union, with fees, dues, and mandatory health care costs. Many of the guys were upset, but if you didn't join, you couldn't work. I joined, and later became a job steward.

[pampango]

19. Yes and that is something that does not exist in Germany. Their unions are stronger and

their pay is higher. Right-to-work (always a terrible misnomer) has gotten to be totally ridiculous when a company that wants to have a union can be prevented by republican politicians' threats.

[Boom Sound 416]

34. Did VW want the union?

[TheKentuckian]

18. Our unions have been defanged and handcuffed into not having a lot to offer at the moment

It is very important to grow membership to be able to restore influence and bargaining position so membership is an issue of solidarity and long term and strategic benefit versus instant gratification, not exactly a current strength in our society.

Right now unions are pretty much negotiating surrender and giving back gains, it isn't sexy to someone expected to pay dues and that makes the sale tougher.

In the environment and location, the results may be somewhat encouraging. There is obviously support despite these drawbacks and political resistance, despite I'd guess working for one of the better employers to be had in the area. I don't know but that is my guess.

It's still damn depressing though for the big picture but probably more understandable than most want to admit.

[WillyT]

21. Hey cali... Check Out The Mentality...

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024506634

[Union Scribe]

22. And some of them are right here

barely containing their glee, posting their digs at unions thinking they aren't transparent.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

25. threat of organizing >>> awarded new production line

Unions always have indirect effects. Unions force non-union employers to increase their wages.

[doc03]

26. I think there should be a labor law prohibiting political

interference in a union vote.

[Cleita]

27. I guess they will get what's coming to them sadly.

I could have more to say but I'm feeling less and less hopeful of the future of the working class.

[goldent]

29. well, they can revisit the decision in a year

The terms of UAW contracts and the amount of union dues are no secret, so the VW workers can certainly change their minds if VW does not keep them happy.

I think VW keeping neutral on the matter might have been a strategic move. If you are a worker, and the company has no problem with a union coming in, it may make you think twice if the union will be good for you.

[Seeking Serenity]

28. I've asked this in another thread and no one's chosen to offer an opinion

but I wonder, and think it would be worth trying to find out, how much of the vote against was a vote against being unionized per se and how much it was having to be a part of the UAW. Was there something about the UAW the workers mistrusted? What if there was another vote to decide whether to organize themselves outside of the UAW?

Just asking questions.

[goldent]

30. Someone posted a link to an article

that said that some workers felt the UAW was mainly interested in the American Big 3, and might not pay as much attention to VW workers. It also mentioned that some workers viewed the UAW car plants as places with a very adversarial relationship between mgmt and labor (perhaps they don't think VW is like that).

Bottom line, I think if they saw the UAW as definitely leading to higher wages, they would have voted it in. But I don't think that was seen as a given.

[Cleita]

31. Well, having once worked in a union shop that was an open shop

meaning you didn't have to join, I learned that most who didn't join objected to paying the dues. It was as simple and stupid as that. Since they were getting the same wage and benefits as the union workers, they didn't feel they had to join and pay. However, when the day came that the company has to downsize the workforce, the non-union members were the first to go. They didn't see that coming.

What I don't understand is why the workers who want a union can't have one? The others don't have to join, but it seems those workers who want representation should be able to have it, even if it only has five members.

[neverforget]

33. I belong to the UTU and I can't believe how many of my fellow union

brothers and sisters are Republican. Not just Republican, but Fox News stupid Republican.

I really don't think they get that if the Republicans had their way, there would be no unions and their (our) pay and benefits would shrink dramatically.

[kalisto2010]

35. I actually don't blame the workers.

I'm 100% pro Union however when the entire legislative branch is colluding to punish you, along with VW behind the scenes ( I don't believe for one second they were completely neutral) They didn't have much leverage. That's why those companies open the plants in States with anti-union legislature, so they can continue to pay workers 15$ an hour for jobs they should be making $30 dollars an hour.