The Volkswagen Union vote that failed..

[busterbrown]

Does anyone here know how much union dues would have been?

Is there any analysis of why over 700 workers voted against the Union..

Hate Liberals and Obama?
Don’t want to pay union dues?
Intimidation of any kind?
Ignorance?

Help.. I’m really pissed and confused..Especially after watching the Ed Show yesterday when the Pro Union guys inferred that the vote would pass by a large vote..

My “Uplifting Ed Sement” post is still on the front page..I should delete it...

[SharonAnn]

1. Living here in East TN, about 70 miles from the plant, I was skeptical about it passing.

It's probably encouraging that the vote was so close. Better than I might've thought.

At the same time, this "anti-union" sentiment is extremely strong here. There's a long history of the "mill-owners" controlling everything and the rest of the population being subservient to them. As in "if you do xxxx, neither you nor any of your kin will ever work in this town again!"

I think the anti-union sentiment is part of that.

20 years ago here, when a factory worker ordered furniture from a Knoxville store, neighbors noted that the delivery truck wasn't from the local furniture store (owned by the brother of the factory owner). The factory worker lost his job.

I really don't know what it will take to change it.

[busterbrown]

2. Hate to say it..

But the way I see it....Changing this mind set will probably take a take over of every aspect of govt by Koch Brother like industrialist (repealing the ACA, eliminating all safety net programs, privatizing SS and drawing down Medicare benefits) causing catastrophic living conditions.

People dying in the streets especially loved ones and neighbors might cause these ignoramuses to see the light..

[Fumesucker]

4. When has anyone at all given a damn about the average worker in the South?

It's totally beyond these people's experience that anyone in any position of power should care about bettering their lot in life.

A big chunk of them more than likely think of the union as just another layer of asses to kiss since kissing ass to keep from getting screwed even worse is all they've ever known.

[busterbrown]

5. Huh? Are you serious?

Thats because Right Wingers who control their State like to keep them ignorant...
Tell me, The Expansion of Medicaid under the ACA, this is not a program which will better their lives?

[Fumesucker]

19. It might at some point

But I doubt it's making any difference now, Tennessee rejected Medicaid expansion.

You don't psychologically turn people around from literally generations of being screwed over in a few weeks.

[busterbrown]

20. My point. Their own are the ones that are screwing them.. Not the Fed..

[Fumesucker]

22. Indeed, I'm sure that is a great comfort to them in their time of need

And this thread was about unions, not the Federal government.

[gkagejr]

3. Dues

When I was with the UAW in Fenton MO our dues were 2 hrs pay per month. About $60 bucks tax deductible.

[busterbrown]

6. Do you feel it was worth it?

Also my feelings are that Unions forming now would have a whole different mind set..
No longer hopefully will Union Leaders receive the same kind of perks as they once did.. A Union leader or president of a plant, should receive compensation in line with the other workers..

Am I correct about Union leader perks?

[cloudbase]

9. I'm retired now,

but in my union (Marine Engineers) the pay for most union officials was tied to rank and file wages. The president and secretary-treasurer had their wages determined annually by a member elected financial review committee.

[sked14]

7. That's pretty cheap,

with the AFL-CIO, we paid $160.00 a month when I retired.

[busterbrown]

11. Was it worth it?

And in your opinion were union officials paid too much based on their responsibilities?

I mean honestly, what do you think?

[sked14]

13. It was well worth it,

and with the money I was making hourly plus all the OT I wanted, I could easily afford it.

[busterbrown]

15. This is the kind of stuff we need to get out..

I read one post which implied the two tier system was a major problem..

[OriginalGeek]

8. I think i heard this morning

(on NPR sooo...) that anti-union government officials kinda sorta let it be known that they probably couldn't support a new factory making other vehicles if this was a union town...

I was half asleep so please forgive if I have details wrong and I gladly accept correction.

[Yo_Mama]

10. There wasn't intimidation - I think the problem is the two-tier contract.

Plant management wanted a works council (standard in Germany), and they needed an outside labor union in order to have a works council under US law (I don't know why under US law), and so they made a deal with UAW to come in and campaign. They let them campaign in the plant, even.

The deal UAW had negotiated for the Detroit 3 new works is pretty bad, so maybe that was a factor? Union dues are an expense, and if the workers at this factory felt that they would be paying dues for no benefit for themselves, maybe they decided on that basis.

IMO, the two-tier deal UAW worked out for the Big Three is very much a disincentive to pay union dues.

Also, union dues at UAW are significant, and the best bet is that their local union dues would be used to build up the strike fund for a strike at the one of the Big Three:
http://www.labornotes.org/blogs/2013/12/uaw-dues-increase-biggest-mistake-two-tier

That was written by a longterm union guy. It's worth reading for his thoughts.

Two or three tier union contracts make a mockery out of all the other rhetoric involved. Union solidarity means something, and could theoretically help the workers at the local plant in TN if they believed in it - but how can they, when they see what happened up north?

[JaneyVee]

12. What happened up North?

[Yo_Mama]

21. The two-tier contract!!!

Read the link.

I understand all the rationales behind it, but it doesn't make for a solid union.

[busterbrown]

14. The whole union thing has to undergo a huge transition..

I think a lot of money could be put back in the worker’s hands by holding down Union Officials
Compensation..I think they are paid to much, based on my limited experience working with officials on healthcare issues..

[JaneyVee]

16. What exactly are you complaining about, union salaries?

[busterbrown]

28. No.. Of course not.

Am question union officials and reps.. Just want to know if rank and file are good on their salaries, perks and benefits.. Thats all..

[Yo_Mama]

24. Starting wages for UAW workers were very low

I suspect the problem is not so much the union head compensation, but the union worker wages. At one point after the 2009 debacle starting wages at GM were $14 an hour. Since they have increased, but shit!!!

Vehicle assembly is hard, hard work.

The last round of UAW contracts (multi-year) in 2011 tried to increase starting wages across the Big Three to $19.28 by the end of the contract, but in 2011 the 1-year or less rate was $15.78. As of this year it should be the $19.28.

You can see the contracts here at the UAW page:
http://www.uaw.org/content/wage-increases-entry-level-workers-add-their-base-pay

This was very close to the deal that the TN VW workers were already receiving:
http://www.uawlocal5286.com/Volkswagen-Chattanooga.htm

If the union had been able to promise that the temp thing would be shut down, that might have tipped the scale, but I heard they did not, probably because they also allowed some of the UAW plants to use temps.

The 2009 economic debacle did all sorts of damage to this economy, and it's not fixed yet. Read this Bloomberg article all the way through to see what happened to new UAW workers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-18/mbdlhh0yhq0x.html

It's not just the wages, though. They also didn't get the retirement benefits, etc. So now you have a very different UAW, and in fact the UAW wages for new hires closely parallel average manufacturing wages.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages-in-manufacturing

By some accounts, UAW contracts for new hires are below US manufacturing wages (but probably close, due to shift differentials, etc):
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-21/no-renaissance-for-u-s-factory-workers-as-pay-stagnates.html

It used to be that being UAW meant you had a good standard of living. No more.

[TheMathieu]

26. Probably.

I'd be very happy to have a union job, but I wouldn't want dues to be exorbitant.

But if I was getting union job pay... the dues would be a drop in the bucket compared to the exploitative jobs I have done.

[adavid]

17. TN is a ...

candy apple red, bible belt, Evangelical, right wing,.....state.

That is the biggest reason those people voted against their own interests.

[Savannahmann]

18. I would say several reasons.

First, if the workers feel they are getting a good wage, benefits, and working conditions, they are if not happy, then satisfied with their situation. Second, the promises the union could make were that they could negotiate for better, but taking a serious look at the economy, most people would wonder if it would get better. A bird in the hand and all of that.

Job guarantees are at best, a forlorn hope. The UAW was unable to prevent Ford and GM from relocating a lot of their manufacturing to Mexico. Part of the reason Detroit is in such bad shape is the manufacturing jobs left there. So promises by the UAW to protect the workers jobs rings a little hollow to many people.

Safety. The OSHA regulations are usually as stringent as Union Requirements. So any unsafe working conditions would be addressed through OSHA and potentially lawsuits. So chances are there aren't the glaring unsafe sweat shop conditions that would exist in other nations.

Volkswagen and their push for efficiency and quality. The factory is a top ten green award winning local. With solar power and water recycling and reclimation. The company is already spending a ton of money for good, ecologically friendly, and safe working conditions. What more could the UAW really expect to deliver?

Finally, mentality. The southern mentality is one of the self illusion (delusion sometimes) of independance. The Country Boy can survive mentality if you will. If they see a change that should be made, most will speak up to someone. If they are getting a fair wage for their work, they won't quit. We aren't talking about a 19th Century sweatshop. We're talking about Volkswagen.

Check out their factory in Dresden.

Now, check out the plant in Tennesee.

Volkswagen just announced plans to spend 7 Billion dollars to improve their north american share.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303819704579317331370281814

So what could the UAW realistically promise to improve? Job security? Perhaps, a tiny bit. Safety? Quality? Probably not. It would be hard to improve quality beyond where Volkswagen is already at. The factories are neat, clean, and laid out to maximize production while stressing safety and quality.

I was doubtful that the union vote would go as the UAW promised. We're not talking about a sweat shop of half a century ago.

[tammywammy]

25. Interesting post. n/t

[busterbrown]

30. Got it...Thanks..

Sounds as though V.W. is way ahead of the game..

[okaawhatever]

23. There was so much propoganda and third party influence in this election I don't think there's

an easy answer. Since this was to be a works council, with some differences from the traditional union you would think some
Republicans would be more supportive. it took me a lot of reading to realize, it's the exact reason they oppose it. They don't want the unions to come into the 21st Century and be more competitive. Interestingly,

Union membership in Tennessee grew by 25 percent in 2013, the most of any state, with 31,000 new members over 2012, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics says. Even so, only 6.1 percent of the state's workforce was unionized in 2013 compared with 11.3 percent nationally.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140214/OEM01/140219894/vw-workers-reject-uaw-organizing-drive-at-tenn-plant#d

Here's a good story by Bill Moyers that describes Grover Norquists groups involvement.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/11/14/vw-isn%E2%80%99t-fighting-unionization%E2%80%94but-leaked-docs-show-right-wing-groups-are/

Then you have the Governor, Senator, Congressperson and number one and two in the state house threatening everything from job security to tax incentives to the inability to bring parts suppliers to the area to support the plant if they unionize. But remember, they had the majority of votes on the cards. Then an anti-union business group got involved with a lawsuit challenging 4 cards and it slowed down all the momentum and allowed others to come in and campaign against the unions. The UAW and NLRB won the lawsuit, but it didn't matter it was about postponing the vote and changing minds.

[madrchsod]

27. they didn't have to pay union dues

it`s a right to work state. they do not have to pay union dues but the union has to represent them during grievances. they get the rewards of a union without paying for them.

the people who voted no were to damn dumb to understand this.

the germans should have known about right to work states here in the usa but those tax breaks were to good to pass up.

[madmom]

29. Hubby reads here but doesn't post, but wanted me to relay this message...

He is retired UAW, union dues are/were 1 hour pay, plus 50 cents building fee. As for paying for a strike, you really can't strike anymore, you'd be replaced right now!
These are the kind of people who weaken an already weak union, who needs them? Their form of solidarity is the I, me, my concept...no understanding of "union".

[busterbrown]

31. Thank your hubby for his input..

Very Helpful..