U.S. Army builds (another) fake city to shoot at during training for $100,000,000

[cali]

in order to play 'asymmetric' war games. and this isn't the only fake city they've built for this purpose.

It's fucking obscene. this country is sick.

The US army has built a fake city designed to be used during combat training exercises.

The 300 acre 'town' includes a five story embassy, a bank, a school, an underground subway and train station, a mosque, a football stadium, and a helicopter landing zone.

Located in Virginia, the realistic subway station comes complete with subway carriages and the train station has real train carriages.

The subway carriages even carry the same logo as the carriages in Washington DC

There are also bridges and several other structures which can be transformed into different scenarios.

<snip>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10634411/US-army-builds-fake-city-to-shoot-at-during-training.html

[Lost_Count]

1. I'd go...

... bet it's a bitch to get a slot though.

[Kingofalldems]

11. In the army eh?

[sarisataka]

2. MOUT

Military Operations in Urban Terrain. It has been around for a long time.

Armed forces seek to train their units for those circumstances in which they are to fight: built up, urban areas are no exception. Several countries have created simulated urban training zones. The British Army has established an "Afghan village" within its Stanford Battle Area and the French Army has built several urban training areas in its CENZUB facility.

During World War II, as preparation for the Allied invasion of Normandy, the population of the English village of Imber was evacuated compulsorily to provide an urban training area for United States forces. The facility has been retained, despite efforts by the displaced people to recover their homes, and was used for British Army training for counter-insurgency operations in Northern Ireland. A newer purpose-built training area has been created at Copehill Down, some 3 miles from Imber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_warfare
Such training areas can look like anything from an extremely poorly built, unfinished Hollywwod set to a small town that you can't tell from the real thing at first glance.
I spent a very enjoyable year as 'Red Force' (the bad guys) in a town. It was no where near as complete as this one. I would be interested to see what you can get for $100,000,000. I would expect this will be one of the Army's primary training facilities for that cost.

[spanone]

3. what's a hundred million to an organization that gets 600 BILLION

a piss in the pot.

[linuxman]

4. Unbelievable.

It's like they think they're going to be fighting people in a city somewhere!

It's called training. I can guarantee you $100M figure was part of the recently passed budget, earmarked directly for this.

We aren't fighting Russia ever again. Interstate war between great powers is going the way of the Dodo. Train like you fight.

[woo me with science]

35. And the influx continues...

States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

[linuxman]

40. You caught me.

The MIC and Obama administration is paying me to troll/mislead a bunch of homebodies on a niche web forum.

I really wish the Bilderbergers would give me my damn raise already.

If you drop it, I'll tell you who really killed the Kennedys. I can't say much, but I'll give you a hint: The sonofabitch has been flurodating your drinking water.

[woo me with science]

41. Yes, how *unrealistic* the concepts of advertising and propaganda are.

Funny how attempts to invoke wild conspiracy theories at DU invariably come from corporatist posters trying to push the absurd suggestion that governments and corporations do not spend millions to advertise, propagandize, and shape public opinion.

How wild-eyed and conspiratorial to suggest that those imposing policy against the will of the people would attempt to use their deep pockets to shape public opinion or disrupt dissent. Certainly those with a political agenda, and especially corporatists in this country, have *never* attempted to use their deep pockets to propagandize media before.

How *much* more logical to believe that political boards across the internet experienced a radical and bizarre influx of corporatism-spouting participants all within the space of a few years for no reason whatsoever and during a time when polling data clearly show the mood of the country moving the opposite way. It's obviously just a bizarre fluke that the number of corporate mouthpieces, and their ratio to other incoming posters, keeps increasing relentlessly, weirdly, and steadily...and that they all use the very same talking points and tactics including starting threads well out of proportion to their presence in the community, *never* letting a thread critical of the administration go unanswered, and demanding the last word in nearly every exchange.




States that build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines:

The influx of corporate propaganda-spouting posters is blatant and unnatural.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3189367

U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News To Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262111

The goal of the propaganda assaults across the internet is not to convince anyone of anything.*
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023359801

The government figured out sockpuppet managment but not "persona management."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023358242

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4159454

Seventeen techniques for truth suppression.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4249741

Just do some Googling on astroturfing - big organizations have some sophisticated tools.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1208351

The influx will continue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4216987

[linuxman]

42. Seek help.

Seriously.

[woo me with science]

43. Advertising and propaganda,

and the last resort of personal smears. Yes, that's generally what we have come to expect from the corporate posting.

[Scuba]

45. Nice smackdown. Kudos.

[PowerToThePeople]

49. Enjoy your stay

[TheMathieu]

5. OUR ARMED FORCES ARE GETTING PROPER TRAINING?

SO. PISSED.

[cali]

7. really? you think that's the point?

[hobbit709]

8. Yes. You want to send them out into a situation without proper training?

Look at WWII when the fighting was in the cities and the casualty rate in urban warfare..

[cali]

9. oh bullshit. first of all they already have fake cities to train the troops

and secondly, I dispute that you can't train troops without this.

other countries manage.

[hobbit709]

10. You know nothing

[cali]

13. back at you. I know the U.S. has a huge bloated defense budget

that is many, many times bigger than any other nation.

[hobbit709]

26. I agree on that but training is usually skimped on in comparison.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. I don't want our troops to be equal; I want them to be overwhelmingly superior.

[linuxman]

16. LOL.

Why do we need more than one f-18? Why do we need more than one base?

Please, outline your MOUT training package plan. I really want to see this. So would the .mil. Fun fact: The government has had a program in place for years which guarantees the originator of a cost saving idea a percentage of the savings for a certain period.

Maybe with your insight we can finally have military parity with Mexico!

[Logical]

48. LOL, 300 posts, hmmmm. nt

[peacebird]

6. Think of how many ways that much money could have been used to HELP American citizens....

[linuxman]

12. I dunno

I think giving soldiers the training they need in order to not get all fucked up in urban combat would fit that description.

[peacebird]

14. We already have one such facility available.

[linuxman]

21. Exactly. And this one was built for reason.

Many troops are deployed without this valuable training due to the problem of getting them all to the location, and that is IF there is enough time,/room to train them.

Your point is silly. It's like asking why don't we just have one national DMV.

[cali]

15. gee, here's a thought: how about we stop enaging in wars that make the world a worse

place?

[warrant46]

17. +1 N/T

[cali]

19. gotta love the conservadems swarming DU under a dem president

NOT.

[linuxman]

24. I don't know about all that.

I suppose it's easy to dismiss someone who hasn't devoted enough of their life to a website to accrue 90k+ posts, but I'm talking facts and reality here. If that doesn't jive with your view, well....I don't know what to tell you.

Asymmetric war and operations in urban settings are the current way of war and the way of wars to follow. We don't stable cavalry horses anymore. We build fake towns.

I suppose it's easier to dismiss me offhand as a "conservadem" than to try and understand the rational basis for constructing this facility.

[cali]

25. I do. I've been here for a long time.

As I said, they already have such a facility.

[linuxman]

29. Well...

I'm sure at one point the cavalry had one stable.

[GP6971]

30. No offense,

But where is this facility?? I personally know of 3.

[Lancero]

59. By that logic...

We might as well get rid of all but one abortion clinic. Afterall, one is plenty and no way will their ever be more people in need of one then that one can support.

[woo me with science]

38. Cannot have a thread without PR input.

Such is the new corporate propaganda state.

[linuxman]

18. Far out man.

We could just like, end war, ya know? Someone should tell the president. He seems hip. I never thought of that.


War is what we're in, and it's not going away overnight. 100M is a drop in the ocean if it brings more troops back alive before the ultimate pullout.

[cali]

22. yeah, because the Iraq War was such a huge success and hey people like YOU

cheer for rampant militarism. That hardly makes it "hippie diippy" to oppose the military industrial complex.

And President Eisenhower was hardly known for being some peacenik.

gad, the unthinking support for this shit on DU is pathetic and intellectually bereft.

Oh, and President Obama is a corporatist through and through and through.

[linuxman]

27. Well...

I highly doubt Eisenhower looked at the Higgins boats, sneered, then insisted that everyone swim the channel. I mean other countries don't have them.... Like I said, war is what you got. Train accordingly.

Building a MOUT facility doesn't perpetuate war. It gives troops a better chance of coming home alive. In the grand scheme of things, the town is as high as a first aid lesson on the scale of MIC threat level.

[cali]

31. I don't have to suppose what he thought: he made it quite clear in his famous speech.

and yes, it perpetrates war and the mentality of endless war.

YOU are jumping to conclusion. I have his actual words. You do grasp the difference, I hope.

Furthermore, I don't do mindless troop adulation. This excellent article speaks for me:


No, thanks: Stop saying “support the troops”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023541029

[linuxman]

33. Your're so right.

We should just stop everything and end the war today. Anything less is a continuation of MIC and imperialism.

You are being deliberately obtuse about this. All I'm attempting to explain to you is that we are currently in a war where people fight in urban settings. To increase survivability we can train more troops more effectively with additional facilities. If you can't manage to somehow get you head around that, I might as well tell it to my cat.

This facility does nothing for the troops, aside from help keep them alive. That is the only point of this kind of thing. Troop effectiveness and survivability. That's it. You're the kind of narrow minded person who would have sent millions to their deaths while serving on a WWI general staff. I mean, why dig trenches and stay low, right? We don't need none of that fancy stuff.! War never changes! Forwards, and fix bayonets! We'll build a tank later, but just the one!

If wanting more live Americans is troop adulation, I'm guilty.

I want all our men and women to come home. Until then, I'll have to settle for some. I'd like that to be a bigger number. Take your accusations of MIC-cheering and jingoism and shove them somewhere dark and lonely.

You're welcome to continue on with this, but you'll do it alone. I've said all that a reasonable man can.

[woo me with science]

36. + 1000000

[Pretzel_Warrior]

20. It is the new form of warfare. Why not prepare for it?

They certainly don't need so many tanks and battle ships. Spending money to provide realistic urban combat training is about the best use of DOD money I've heard.

[cali]

23. they've already got a facility such as this and in a time when the social safety

net is being shredded, our bloated defense and national security budgets are obscene.

Cui bono.

It ain't chiefly the sainted troops.

Yeah, I despise the mindless military adulation.

[linuxman]

28. LOL.

Wanting troops to have higher survivability in wars they are stuck in = "military adulation".


Do you hear yourself? I'm not lobbying for a next gen fucking jet fighter.

[MADem]

32. That's a rather hefty price tag, IMO.

This thing was started during the Bush era FWIW:

It has taken six years for the site to be developed, including two years of construction.

Personally, I'd take a section of a blighted community, buy it all up, fence it all off,and use it for that purpose. Much more realistic, and it would put some of the "construction" money in the hands of people with crappy houses that no one wants to buy. We have a lot of smaller cities and towns with shitty sections -- if the residents abutting them would be willing to put up with the odd boom and bang of training, or if they just bought up the adjacent areas to minimize the noise factor, it might be a win-win.

[linuxman]

34. I rather like this idea.

The only thing is, you generally can't do this where there are ANY other people. These exercises are way more than an odd "boom and a bang". Still a good Idea though. If Detroit weren't so damn cold it would be nice. I'd be willing to bet that there is at least one completely abandoned area somewhere in the US, though.

[MADem]

37. You'd have to buy some people out, no doubt. You'd need a buffer zone.

And what with the weather going a bit nutso, it can snow anywhere--ask the folks in Georgia!

A bit of cold weather training never hurts, either--always train for the next conflict, AND the one after that!

[woo me with science]

39. K&R Another new example every single day

of the rotting priorities of this country corrupted by blood-tinged corporate money and power.

Thank you for posting this. I had not seen it elsewhere.

[Jesus Malverde]

44. A new simulation eh...sounds like urban america...

creeeepy

[jsr]

46. $100,000,000 can buy a lot of food.

[Scuba]

47. If we can't afford to educate our children, to heal our sick or care for our elderly ...

... just what is it the defense budget is defending?

[IDemo]

51. -

[NightWatcher]

50. Would you rather them have drills in actual cities?

I trained at a SimCity at FLETC and the stuff we did would've freaked out locals had we tried it in a real city. Fed law enforcement officers do it all the time.

In the event that they'd need to storm a subway station, I'd like them to have practice.

[PowerToThePeople]

52. Defund the DoD

We do not need a military nearly the size of what we have currently. We would still be the largest military superpower at 1/2 of today's budget.

[Recursion]

53. That sounds expensive; you seem to be against the concept, though?

MOUT are hard, very very hard. Training saves lives, both of service members and civilians.

[Adrahil]

57. I imagine one reason it's so expensive...

... Is because it is heavily instrumented for training. Training is most effective when you can effectively review the results.

[Recursion]

60. Even then: union construction labor, proper environmental assessments,

proper site safety, and all the other things that make us all love public sector projects also make them more expensive.

[butterfly77]

54. Kick...

I wonder if they could do that for the cities in America we sure could do with some affordable housing.

[DJ13]

55. Couldnt they just rent one of those empty cities built in China?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. America's most Sacred of Sacred Cows gets fed...while people starve. K&R