General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWere Prehistoric Statues Pornographic?
AN: People are fascinated by prehistory, and the media wants to write stories that attract readersto use a cliché, sex sells. But when a New York Times headline reads "A Precursor to Playboy: Graphic Images in Rock," and Discover magazine asserts that man's obsession with pornography dates back to "Cro-Magnon days" based on "the famous 26,000-year-old Venus of Willendorf statuette ... GG-cup breasts and a hippopotamal butt," I think a line is crossed. To be fair, archaeologists are partially responsiblewe need to choose our words carefully.
JI: Having studied Upper Paleolithic figurines closely, what did you find?
AN: They are incredibly varied beyond the few figurines seen over and over again: the Venus of Hohle Fels, the Venus of Willendorf, and the Venus of Dolní Věstonice. Some are male, some are female; some are human, some are animals or fantastical creatures; some wear items of clothing, others do not. A recent study by my doctoral student Allison Tripp and her colleague Naomi Schmidt demonstrated that the body shapes of female figurines from around 25,000 years ago correspond to women at many different stages of life; they're a variety of shapes and sizes. All of this suggests that there are multiple interpretations.
JI: Aren't other interpretations of paleo art just as speculative as calling them pornographic?
AN: Yes, but when we interpret Paleolithic art more broadly, we talk about "hunting magic" or "religion" or "fertility magic." I don't think these interpretations have the same social ramifications as pornography. When respected journalsNature for exampleuse terms such as "Prehistoric pin-up" and "35,000-year-old sex object," and a German museum proclaims that a figurine is either an "earth mother or pin-up girl" (as if no other roles for women could have existed in prehistory), they carry weight and authority. This allows journalists and researchers, evolutionary psychologists in particular, to legitimize and naturalize contemporary western values and behaviors by tracing them back to the "mist of prehistory."
JI: Will we ever understand what ancient art really means?
AN: The French, in particular, are doing incredible work analyzing paint recipes and tracing the movement of the ancient artists as they painted. We may never have the knowledge to say, "This painting of a bison meant this," but I am confident that a detailed study of the corpus of Ice Age imagery, including the figurines, will give us a window on to the "lived life" in the Paleolithic.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2012/11/prehistoric_pornographic_art_venus_statues_and_other_cave_art_weren_t_paleolithic.html
peacebird
(14,195 posts)But that's just me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)day one. innate men have their porn. and there is a real push thru a specific faux science to make this a truth.
dawg
(10,621 posts)Personally, I believe such artifacts were fertility talismans; hence the exaggerated features.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)fertility, simple reconstructing what they see in art.
dawg
(10,621 posts)I think the "Venus" figures are a Mother-Goddess. Her worship probably predates any other known religion, and elements of it remain in Western culture to this day.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Seriously
Recursion
(56,582 posts)There's like one etching of human sex, and one painting of animal sex. (There's a famous paper, "No Sex Please, We're Aurignacian".)
Personally, I think street art is the best ethnographic metaphor. I'd love to see Banksy's opinion on Chauvet or Lescaux.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)That is a juvenille and puerile understanding of important cultural symbols.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)As my anthro prof said, if someone proposes a single explanation, he or she is wrong.
FSogol
(45,446 posts)Porn or childbirth totems?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and trying to make it work.
frogmarch
(12,153 posts)people in prehistoric cultures didnt ever find humor in sex or create sexual art that was meant to be funny. Would they have considered some of their sexually explicit art (e.g., the Venus of Willendorf figure) to be pornographic, and maybe even funny? Maybe.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)to validate, justify, excuse, dismiss behavior today?
frogmarch
(12,153 posts)presenting any modern interpretation of prehistoric art as fact, and no one needs a license to express an opinion on what various pieces of prehistoric art may have meant to the artists.
Also as far as I know, no one is using an interpretation of prehistoric art to justify anyone's behavior today.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)in Peru in particular, in ceramic figurines depicting explicit sexual conduct of every imaginable sort. For the anthropologist, this does not imply that another culture held concepts such as pornography. Pornography connotes breaking taboo, and that requires there first be a taboo. The Peru art implies the erotic depictions taboo was unknown. It also conveys a sense of the fun of having sex. Check out the couples and critters "doin' it" here:
http://www.delange.org/Larco_Museum_Lima_Peru_Erotic/Larco_Museum_Lima_Peru_Erotic.htm
hunter
(38,302 posts)If everyone is walking around naked then the effectiveness of certain kinds of advertising is greatly diminished.
Who's going to buy the Sports Illustrated "swimsuit" edition if they can see naked people anywhere?
Societies where nudity is casual tend to cover up once they discover our thoroughly twisted society is leering at them.
pornography (n.) Look up pornography at Dictionary.com
1843, "ancient obscene painting, especially in temples of Bacchus," from French pornographie, from Greek pornographos " one) depicting prostitutes," from porne "prostitute," originally "bought, purchased" (with an original notion, probably of "female slave sold for prostitution" , related to pernanai "to sell," from PIE root *per- (5) "to traffic in, to sell" (see price (n.)) + graphein "to write" (see -graphy). A brothel in ancient Greek was a porneion.
In reference to modern works by 1859 (originally French novels), later as a charge against native literature; sense of "obscene pictures" in modern times is from 1906. Also sometimes used late 19c. for "description of prostitutes" as a matter of public hygiene. The "Medical Archives" in 1873 proposed porniatria for "the lengthy and really meaningless expression 'social evil hospital' ...."
I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that. [U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, concurring opinion, "Jacobellis v. Ohio," 1964]
In ancient contexts, often paired with rhypography, "genre painting of low, sordid, or unsuitable subjects." Pornocracy (1860) is "the dominating influence of harlots," used specifically of the government of Rome during the first half of the 10th century by Theodora and her daughters. Pornotopia (1966) was coined to describe the ideal erotic-world of pornographic movies.