Michael Dunn/ Swimsuit Edition

[H2O Man]

"There's no right way to do wrong, and no wrong way to do right."
-- Smokin' Joe Frazier, Heavyweight Champion of the World

Like many others, I have followed the Michael Dunn murder trial. As some older DUers will remember, I have had a nephew viciously attacked -- and left for dead -- by a racist hate gang in 1998. My nephew survived; the local justice system was flawed; and some of the gang went on to commit more assaults and gun violence. While I don't have any great insights on the workings of the jury in the Dunn case, I'd like to say a few things about the case in general.

First, and most important, it appears that Mr. Dunn was an angry, paranoid citizen right up until the day he murdered Jordan Davis. He had gone to the wedding of a son, with whom he had a failed father-son relationship. slammed down a handful of drinks, and left early. Stopped so that his lady could pick up more alcohol and chips; got pissed off by some teenagers "disrespecting" him; and got out his gun.

The murderer had fled the scene, but some good citizens -- including the three teens in the vehicle who were not killed -- provided police with information that led to Dunn's capture and arrest. The police investigation seems solid to me. They knew he was lying to them from the moment their first interview with him began.

Jordan Davis was murdered; the jury returned an uneven verdict; and Jordan's parents et al are left with mixed feelings. While not the gross injustice of the Zimmerman verdict, the unresolved "mistrial" on the most serious charge brings to mind King's saying that justice delayed is justice denied.

What may make this all the more frustrating for many people is that only Dunn stands out as toxic. The judge seemed a decent man; the two prosecutors handling the case came across as sincere, as did the defense attorney. The trial appeared flawed, so far as providing the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth .....and it may well be that, as frustrating as that surely is, it is exactly why the jury could not deliver justice on the most important charge.

It is not only what evidence can, or can not, be introduced in trial that counts. It is also how those laws have been interpreted in that state's courts over the decades, that can increase the likelihood of something being grounds for a reversal on appeal. In some circumstances, even a "good" law can lead to an unjust end; it is difficult, however, to imagine "bad" laws as serving as the foundation for anything good.

Some journalists have asked if Michael Dunn told his lies so often that he now believes them? I do not think so. I'm convinced, from watching him testify, that he knows he is lying. Part of the problem is that Dunn does believe he was 100% justified in murdering young Davis. Not because he felt afraid, but because he felt entitled. And he honestly believed that, even if the police knew he was lying, they "couldn't prove it."

From a legal standpoint, the convictions stand as victories, and the big charge can be re-tried. But from a human context, this whole episode falls into a long and bitter history that continues to de-value the life of young black males in American society.

In my opinion, it is essential that all people og Good Will understand -- and act upon -- the potential good that "the public" can do, in regards to the legal system. And one thing is for sure: you and I can not only be registered voters, but we can work to make sure that other like-minded people are registered and vote. More, starting from the local level, we can work to elect decent public representatives -- in every branch of our government, and at all levels.

Things can change. In fact, they absolutely will! The only question is if they will get better, or get worse. For they cannot stay the same.
I encourage DUers to become increasingly active in the 2014 election cycle. Starting now, if you already haven't. (If we take care on now/2014, we can be confident that we can deal with 2016 when we get there.) The Democratic Party should be finding common ground with the Democratic Left, and finding the very best candidates possible.

I'll be investing my time and energy in this. How far are you going to go?

Peace,
H2O Man

[Sissyk]

1. K&R

Before I opened the thread, I was like...."Wait...What? H20 Man is getting involved in the SI brouhaha??"

Sissyk should have known better.

[H2O Man]

2. Thanks!

I was concerned that few if any would read an OP without some reference to SI's swimsuit brouhaha. Just my insecurities showing through, I guess. (smile)

[The Wielding Truth]

47. Thom Hartman just quoted you on his program.

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 01:42 AM - Edit history (1)

He read on air your comment about entitlement.

"Some journalists have asked if Michael Dunn told his lies so often that he now believes them? I do not think so. I'm convinced, from watching him testify, that he knows he is lying. Part of the problem is that Dunn does believe he was 100% justified in murdering young Davis. Not because he felt afraid, but because he felt entitled."

[Blus4u]

3. Thank you sir,

for a thoughtful, well written post -
Your title almost made me pass it by as frivolous, and it certainly is not that.

Peace

[H2O Man]

4. Thank you.

When any human being gets to be as old as I am, I believe that they have the right to make silly/stupid jokes to themselves. Sad to say, I still sometimes talk to myself this way on DU.

I'm glad that you didn't pass over my OP. And I really appreciate your comments!

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Great post!

Thank you!

[H2O Man]

6. Thanks!

It's really such an ugly case, in so many ways. Yet, there is beauty: I am impressed by Jordan's parents: they are focused on wanting justice, in order to move our society in a direction where it sacrifices fewer children on the alters of hatred. I try to focus on them.

[Overseas]

7. K&R. Well said.

[H2O Man]

12. Thank you!

[riqster]

8. Oh hell yeah, I am working for 2014.

I lost my son to the Pre-ACA system, and if the Repubs win, more people will lose their kids to whatever hellacious "replacement" they devise.

People of good will can, like you, share their stories and perspectives. And hopefully people will listen to you.

GOTV 2014!

[H2O Man]

17. Thanks.

Your post is an extraordinarily powerful statement of Truth. I am having difficulty finding the words to respond -- but here goes: I will be thinking of you & your son ..... when the going gets tough, for inspiration, and when the going isn't as tough, also for inspiration.

I'm an old man, and for many decades, haven't had a "hero" or believed in heroes. But reading your post changed that. You are my hero. Thank you!

Your friend
Patrick (H2O Man)

[riqster]

46. Thanks back atcha.

Here is the blog post where I wrote on health care policy and how it killed him: http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/06/25/one-year-ago-today-americas-profit-driven-health-care-system-killed-my-only-son-asterisk-free-post/

It's one of the posts on that topic. I was always big on election integrity and GOTV, but my outrage went WAY up after that.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

9. The man is already going to jail for the rest of his life...

Seriously. What difference does one more conviction make?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[rocktivity]

10. It makes a difference in that Jordan does not yet have justice

and that leaving his death unresolved sets a precedent for the NEXT Mr. Dunn...


rocktivity

[Half-Century Man]

11. It makes little difference to society at large.

But, most likely, means a great deal to the parents of Jordan Davis.

Closure would be a wonderful thing; so says my PTSD afflicted friend (VN 68-69).

[cui bono]

25. I bet it makes a hell of a lot of difference to society at large, particularly black citizens.

If white men keep walking when they've clearly committed murder of black citizens it will only make it more likely to happen again and again. White racists will think - rightly so - that they can now get away with killing a black person just because they felt like it.

[Half-Century Man]

27. Dunn is not walking away, he is spending many years in prison.

Just not for the crime of murdering Mr. Davis.

I responded to the post of "what does it matter" with the admission of his mistrial and countered with "it mattered to someone".

[cui bono]

28. Exactly, not for killing a black teen. The message racist gun nuts get from that is

that it's open season on murdering black citizens who are doing nothing wrong other than existing. That they can hide behind a self-defense claim even when it is obvious there was no threat. All they have to do is say they felt threatened and give a racist jury a window to acquit or just not convict.

[Half-Century Man]

29. It certainly seems to be trending that way in Fla.

And SYG is largely at fault, but only as the mechanism by which racism and paranoia is acted out.

Have we considered suing Faux News/the NRA/Super Pacs which campaign through fear etc, in a class action lawsuit for fear mongering for political reasons?

[Diamonique]

13. Seriously???

Our justice system has to send the message that it's not open season on young black males. That is why the murder conviction is so important and why the case should be retried.

[H2O Man]

19. Fair question.

I'm going to respond before I read the three other responses. Likely, they will have raised some/all of the same points. But, as your post seems to be getting attention, I don't want my response influenced, one way or the other.

First, the human factor: Jordan's family and friends have the right to have the state prosecute his murder. And they have the need for it. And, if for no other reason, it is necessary for them, alone.

Second, it is required in order for our greater society to move towards justice for all. We simply cannot afford to leave the murder of this young man go unaddressed in the sense of no resolution on the #1 charge. It's too high-profile. Young folk --black, brown, red, yellow, and white, male and female, rich, middle class, and poor -- are watching it. Teens judge "adult society" harshly (thank goodness), and it needs to be tried.

Third, while I'm not really familiar with appeals in Florida (I am in NYS & NJ), conversations I have had suggest that the state has a very different history in that area than up here. Where we would look for a Brady violation, for example, FL has apparently more reversals based on testimony from character witnesses that has a bias. Thus, it would be a serious error for the prosecutor to fail to begin the paperwork for a re-trial on this count. The other four could be reversed.

Finally, the defense attorney might actually hope for this to be tried. He could propose having his client plea guilty to, say, 2nd degree murder. Why? In return for a fixed sentence, to be proposed by prosecutor and defense to the judge, to make the lesser charges disappear. That will seem offensive, even in theory, to most people. But these things have happened plenty of times in low-profile and no-profile cases. Even guilty bastards like Dunn deserve the best defense possible.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

23. If he weasels out in appeals...

...then fine, do the whole "travesty of justice" routine. Hell, I'll almost certainly agree with you.

But the amount of Sturm und Drang expended just because a single charge ended in a mistrial - when the other charges will result in 80 years in prison - seems a trifle over the top to me.

It's especially odd considering that it is Republicans, and frankly conservative democrats like myself, who feel that there needs to be sufficient punishment to deter future behavior. I have very liberal democratic friends in the justice system tell me that increasing punishments beyond a certain amount does nothing, because people in the midst of criminal acts almost never imagine the consequences of their actions. So the difference between, say, 5 years for burglary and 25 years, doesn't actually act as a deterrent. I've been swayed by those arguments, because they back them up with facts.

Yet here the D.U. is howling for blood. It seems that 80 years is not enough. It has to be 160, or else the entire system is broken. Or something.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[rocktivity]

24. The lesser charges can be made to disppear though he's already been convicted?

rocktivity

[JoeyT]

41. I'd say precedent.

Not legal precedent, but precedent that it's illegal to kill a black teenager that sassed you. As it stands, he hasn't been convicted of any sort of murder for actually killing a child. He's been convicted of attempted murder over the other kids, presumably because it's hard to claim self defense when they're driving away and you're still shooting.

To answer your question below about how much longer his sentence needs to be:
It doesn't matter if it tacks more time onto his sentence. It isn't about making sure that his sentence is so long the prison walls rot away around him. It's about sending a clear message that it's illegal to kill a black kid in Florida because you felt like it. A message that has been mighty blurry lately. A message that needs to be sent to both the racists that would kill a black kid if they thought they could get away with it, and to the black kids that are living in constant fear of being shot for failing to show proper deference to some random guy on the street.

[malaise]

14. Thoughtful as usual

Thanks Waterman

[bettyellen]

15. long and bitter history that continues to de-value the life of young black males in American society

yes. Rec.

[Pinkflamingo]

16. Do you know that for sure?

Is he really going to jail for the rest of his life? Each count carries up to 20 years, but he may not be given that. I think the judge could give him less, but I don't know.... Any attorney DU'ers out there?

[Diamonique]

18. Not "up to 20 years"

Each count carries a minimum of 20 years. Plus 15 for shooting at the car.

[cui bono]

26. I just read an article a little while ago that said the judge could give him 20 total

and not 20 consecutive years since they were all during the same incident. Then maybe the 15 years on top of that.

So apparently it's up to the judge's discretion.

[Diamonique]

42. That could be, but...

... I've read that FL law says -- for this type of case -- consecutive is mandatory. So we just don't know yet.

I guess we'll know when he's sentenced.

[FSogol]

20. "I encourage DUers to become increasingly active in the 2014 election cycle." Hear hear!

Get out the vote, DU.

[H2O Man]

36. Years ago, my Good Friend

Dr. Rubin "Hurricane" Carter told me a story: members of a tribe found an airplane. They were unsure of exactly what this machine was. Some were content to make use of the seats as comfortable chairs and a couch. Others found it had the capacity to move, and began to use it as an automobile. Eventually, some youngsters found that it could fly.

DU is that airplane, just as surely as each and every one of us is an airplane. We can sit in comfort; we can drive across the ground; or we can fly.

[FSogol]

40. Doesn't need repeated, but let's fly!

[trof]

21. Spot on. K&R

[H2O Man]

35. Thank you.

Let's roll!

[calimary]

22. Wonderful essay, H2O Man!

Magnificent!

Just shows, yet again, why it's so incredibly vital to vote. EVERYBODY vote. And vote OUT the assholes, or you'll be outshouted by those who DID go to the polls and who thus made sure assholes like ted cruz and rand paul get in. And that james inhofe and louis gohmert stay in. All the WTF candidates that get in - it's because our side gave up, or thought it was an exercise in futility (so why bother?) or kidded themselves that nobody's good enough or nobody tells the truth anyway or they're all the same or some other such bullshit that allows them to stay home on Election Day! Well, believe me, the bad guys aren't gonna stay home on Election Day. They're super motivated. Shall we allow ourselves to be bowled over by them - AGAIN????

[H2O Man]

34. Well, thank you!

We can not allow the unacceptable to be forced upon us as acceptable.

[Hekate]

30. KnR, H20 Man

As always, thoughtful. as always, thank you.

[H2O Man]

33. Thank you!

You are a Good Friend.

[raven mad]

31. H20 Man, I am bookmarking this.

What an insopring post this is. It's late night my time; I wanted to save it to show my husband in the morning. Is it permissible to forward/email an OP? As a newbie, I want to be polite and ask! I have some friends who'd find this thoughtful and comforting, as well. Their son was killed two years ago.



From Teabonics on FaceBook.

[H2O Man]

32. Thank you

for thinking my OP is worth sharing. That's very nice of you! And yes, by all means, that's fine with me.

[avebury]

38. He was not found innocent in the death of

Davis. The jury could not come to a consensus on that charge. There may still be some hope in getting a conviction or plea deal for a guilt plea on the murder charge.

[raven mad]

44. And with some hope, didn't the prosecutor say they will retry the charge?

I just keep thinking about the boy's parents.

[TorchTheWitch]

49. of course they'll re-try it

It's a very strong case. Why the jurors were unable to come to an agreement, who knows. For whatever reason they couldn't all agree on which of the many charges concerning Davis was the right one. On the one hand I'd like to hear from at least one juror about this but on the other I hope they don't say anything at least until after the re-trial.

[HappyMe]

37. Excellent.

[H2O Man]

39. Thanks.

[senseandsensibility]

43. I get what you did here....

You mentioned swimsuit edition when you did not, in fact, write anything about swimsuit edition. I think I know why, too.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

45. Excellent, thoughtful post, H20 Man

Speaking to the value of all life. Michael Dunn destroyed many lives, and every time I see a photo of him, I notice the constant turned down mouth. Seems a permanent part of who he is after all is said and done.

K&R

[Blue_Tires]

48. kick for truth