Sexual Objectivication Explained (VIDEO)

[Jamaal510]

Last edited Mon Feb 17, 2014, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

[Phentex]

1. ...

[BainsBane]

2. Excellent video, Jamaal

Thanks for posting.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. Fantastic Video ...

Actors vs Acted Upon!

[theHandpuppet]

4. Very well done

A rec and a

[redqueen]

5. K&R

[sheshe2]

6. K&R

Thanks Jamaal!

[In_The_Wind]

7. K&R

[redqueen]

8. Kick

[redqueen]

10. Did you watch the video?

Have you got anything to say about the topic or did you only want to share your ... whatever it is you are intending to communication there?

[reusrename]

11. That's all I got.

I guess it's subjective.

[redqueen]

14. Did you watch the video?

As to what you think is subjective - yeah, if you're referring to... whatever it was you were trying to communicate in your first reply, yeah. Also, nobody in this thread cares about your opinion about her lipstick.

[reusrename]

18. Why would she fard if not to objectify herself?

Is there some other motive here that I don't see?

[redqueen]

21. So no, you didn't watch it.

If you had, you would know what objectification is.

[reusrename]

27. of course I watched it

I just think she's full of shit, that's all.

Sex makes the world go 'round.

[redqueen]

38. If so then you failed spectacularly in your effort to comprehend it.

Objectification is not sex.

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. Damn ...

I was sooo wrong. Apparently, he/she is completely clueless.

[redqueen]

46. This kind of conflation is extremely common.

Many MRA/PUA/antifeminist types routinely distort the meaning of objectification, promote the idea that it's just a crazy theory, etc.

These efforts are transparent - desperate effort to hold on to this aspect of male privilege.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. I guess they completely miss the

Actor vs. Acted Upon, i.e., "I don't exist for your use", distinction.

[redqueen]

64. The messages in culture and media overwhelmingly reinforce that it is true.

That women who dress up are supposedly flaunting themselves for sexual attention. There may be merit to that in many instances but if is by no means universally true.

It's sick. It's patriarchy.

[reusrename]

47. I think we just disagree, that's all.

Cluelessness doesn't seem to be the issue.

Basically, she seems to be arguing that sexuality is something we can all set aside at will.

I disagree.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. NO SHE'S NOT!!!!!

Sorry to shout, but that is nowhere near what she is saying.

[redqueen]

52. Objectification is not an aspect of sexuality. It's a type of oppression.

It's not that we disagree. It's that you don't get it.

You sound like a rightwinger saying that we just disagree that we have altered the climate. It doesn't work like that.

[LanternWaste]

60. What specifically (and relevantly) leads you to believe that?

"I just think she's full of shit, that's all..."
What specifically (and relevantly) leads you to believe that?


"Sex makes the world go 'round..."
That would be gravity. Though I understand that science illiteracy is a major problem in the US, I didn't expect to see it justified via the mechanism is irrelevancy.
(Insert rationalization here...)

Broken Men indeed...

[JI7]

30. you think women put on makeup to objectify themselves ?

[reusrename]

36. I think they do it for all sorts of reasons.

In this case I think she wants to make herself look hotter.

[JI7]

37. so fucking what ? what has any of that got to do with not being seen as an object ?

[reusrename]

53. So it fucking WORKS, that's what.

I find her lipstick arousing.

Why is that not supposed to be true?

[sufrommich]

57. What fucking works? Are you under some delusion

that the woman in the video is trying to arouse you personally by putting on lipstick?My 75 year old mother puts on lipstick every day,I assure you,she couldn't give 2 shits whether you would find her attractive.

[JI7]

23. seems to be an attempt to fight back against the message

i wonder if people realize how pathetic and desperate they come off as.

[redqueen]

43. No, of course they don't realize it.

They see DUers who have been here for years making the same bullshit distortions. And only a handful calling them out on it.

If YouTube/Reddit/MRA type BS is allowed, we will keep seeing more of it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. I'm hoping ...

that that poster is "just pulling your leg" and will indicate so after a couple of comments.

[geek tragedy]

13. Thanks for providing an example nt

[sufrommich]

16. What an incredibly trollish remark. Save this idiocy for

the comments section of YouTube. Childish shit.

[seabeyond]

20. Why be an ass? Nt

[cyberswede]

28. ...

[URL=http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/cyberswede/misc/?action=view¤t=c0bbe7b0fcbb6a705a04cc9522a68ce6.jpg][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Gravitycollapse]

55. Disgusting, shameful, idiotic, self-involved post.

[sufrommich]

12. That was excellent. Speak up! k&r.

[idendoit]

15. Am I being obtuse by pointing out what seems ironic to me?

The object of the video, sexual objectification, was indeed presented very well. The subject, Laci's presentation of the object, I found perpetuated that which she spoke against by her use of heavily applied make up.

[redqueen]

17. It only seems ironic because you're still not getting it.

And I know she covered this in the video.

Women wearing makeup != objectification.

[idendoit]

29. What is make up about, if not to objectify one's sexuality by enhancing it?

[redqueen]

35. Maybe you should watch it again.

You are really not understanding what objectification is.

[1StrongBlackMan]

44. Ouch ...

it really hurts to be male ... at this moment ... on this thread.

It seems that some missed her very eloquent Actor vs. Acted Upon, i.e., for you use, distinction:

[redqueen]

49. No no no no... this is not about being male.

These people are clinging to privilege. Many women enjoy this set up and help to prop up this aspect of patriarchy too.

You aren't clinging to any privilege so you've got absolutely no reason to identify with those that do.

[sufrommich]

59. Great post. nt

[idendoit]

63. I took your advice.

At 5 mins. she speaks to self objectification. Is wearing make up when speaking to sexual objectification making it about one self? Is the make up meant to be ignored or only selectively acknowledged with positive comments?
At 5:40 she speaks about microchanges that can be made to stop sexual objectification of women. I would think that stopping the support of the international 'beauty' conglomerate would be a good start.

[redqueen]

85. There are a dozen or so links to further reading after that video.

If you are interested in learning please just read. I don't get the impression you actually want to understand.

You seem to be invested in insisting on conflating different issues so that you can derail this thread.

[sufrommich]

19. Yes, make up is definitely permission to objectify

any woman,no matter how serious the discussion.

[seabeyond]

22. That would be stupid. She can wear what she wants meaning clothes or make up for HER,

Do not think it is for you and her asking you to harass her. I guess it did not sink in for you and you might have to watch again.

[BainsBane]

24. As she said, feeling attractive and finding someone else attractive

is not the same as objectification. A woman who doesn't want to be objectified doesn't need to hide herself. Laci is encouraging cultural change so people start to see women as full human beings, not simply as objects of sexual desire (or lack thereof). She wears make up for the same reason I do: she wants to. She sometimes wears it and sometimes doesn't, which is exactly what I do. A woman can wear make up and still be seen as a human being, as long as those seeing view women as full human beings.

[idendoit]

34. Does feeling attractve happen in a vacuum?

Doesn't the object of being attractive mean making yourself attractive to others. If that is not the subject of make up why perpetuate that stereotype by wearing it?

[BainsBane]

40. So what is your argument

She needs to wear a burka? That women who appear attractive deserve objectification and those who don't should be ignored entirely since they don't count? You have missed the point completely.

Watch the video again and this time listen to what she says.

[idendoit]

69. Should I never objectify someone, in my mind, because of what they do?

Should anyone define for me how I perceive others because of what they do? There is no one sole definition of sexual objectification. At 5:43 minutes she talks about changes that could be made to stop the objectification of women. I would think that pulling one's support of the cosmetics industry a good start. As previously stated, I would need to understand her point in order to agree with it. Which I do.

[Gravitycollapse]

75. To objectify is to remove subjectivity.

To remove personage and identity. To objectify is to reduce a human being to his/her/their constituent parts. Thus, sexual objectification of women is removing a woman's intellectual identity. It turns her into a series of parts to be consumed. Her buttocks, breasts, stomach, legs, feet and face. All up for consumption by the oppressor because without an identity, subjectivity, the woman is free for the taking.

It is an extremely oppressive. It is used to both satisfy oppressive sexual desire and assert dominance.

In that context, you should never objectify anyone.

[idendoit]

82. So than what is the point of her, do as I say,

not as I do, rant. Isn't a woman obscuring her own true identity with a heavy dose of cosmetics? Then deflecting attention to stronger/softer ares of the face and breaking it's features down to their constituent parts removing her own identity. That's self-objectification. Is she deliberately obscuring her own face to be more readily accepted on the Internet?, For more hits?

[mercuryblues]

83. uhmmmm.

NO.

Women wear makeup (or not) for a variety of reasons.

The fact that you are projecting your reason, as her reason for wearing makeup as a way to diminish her message is extremely arrogant. Your same argument can apply to anything a woman does. Shaves her legs, she must be doing it to make herself appear more sexually attractive. Wear a dress, she must be doing it, to show off her legs to make her sexually attractive, Wear pants, she must be wearing them to show off her butt to make herself more sexually attractive. Wears a low cut blouse she must be doing it to show off her cleavage to make herself appear more sexually attractive. She wears a turtle neck, she must be wearing it to appear more sexually attractive. Some men find women attractive when they do none of those things, so are they doing it to appear more sexually attractive?

Just because you seem to think her or any woman's reason for wearing makeup is to appear sexually attractive, doesn't mean it is true.

Obscuring her identity? I am the same person, with or without makeup. If you can't see a woman's true identity past her physical features, that is your problem, not hers.

[sufrommich]

84. Great post. It's a shame it has to be said,

over and over again.

[mercuryblues]

86. thank you

It feels like playing the Whack a mole game. I have no illusion that soon enough the same thing will be debated with a "new name"

[nomorenomore08]

94. Finding a person attractive is not objectification. Asking them out is not objectification either.

Grabbing a stranger's ass is objectification. Yelling lewd come-ons or insults at random women is objectification.

See the difference?

[JI7]

26. that makes no fucking sense at all, her point was that women should not be objectified

[reusrename]

31. What makes no sense is the doublethink.

She wears lipstick to make herself sexually attractive and complains when it works.

I don't know why that's a difficult concept.

[BainsBane]

32. You didn't watch the video, did you?

Try again. This time listen.

[reusrename]

45. Oh, I think I hear it.

I just think she, as an individual, is full of it.

She intentionally makes herself look sexually available and then complains when she gets sexual com-ons.

I disagree with her whole premise, that we can just set aside our sexuality at will.

I think it's crap.

[JI7]

51. "makes herself look sexually available" why do you think it's about offering something to you ?

[BainsBane]

56. Reminds me of a comment the cavers made about me

That because of my breasts, I'm "asking to be raped."

[JI7]

58. and it sounded just as creepy and disgusting

[BainsBane]

61. Yep

I'm thinking it may not be a coincidence.

[R B Garr]

72. I'm thinking you are right about this not being a coincidence.

My attention was directed to the place you mentioned, and I found it very enlightening as to why some here conveniently never seem to understand what is being said.

[BainsBane]

73. I wish that explained it all

Unfortunately it doesn't. However there are some who frame arguments in ways that don't quite sound like they are Democrats.

[ismnotwasm]

65. That's what bugs me. The ones that automatically think it's just for them

That entitlement again.

[BainsBane]

54. Clearly you understood nothing you heard

Your comments make that obvious. She has no "premise" about setting aside sexuality. Rather she argues that it is possible to be sexual while seeing women as actual human beings rather than objects. Did you get the whole point about an object vs. a subject, on being acted upon vs. acting?

[hfojvt]

71. I think it is difficult

In one sense, I can't NOT see her, or any other attractive woman, as attractive.

But it is certainly possible to respond to the ideas she presents rather than making some crude, or even sophisticated, sexual comment.

But I think most of the time, many, if not most, men treat women as people, rather than as sex objects.

But most also enjoy seeing an attractive woman as well.

[Gravitycollapse]

77. It's not black and white like that.

Our daily social interactions are not a single block but an aggregate of hundreds or even thousands of individual encounters. Each one carries the potential to react differently.

In this way, we perform normative social reactions that collectively reinforce sexual objectification of women while at the same time treating women like human beings. With everyone it is a mix.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Social oppression is diffuse and difficult to pinpoint with any single interaction. It isn't about a few bad guys. They exist but are not the chief source. The real source is a large body of ignorant men, and women, acting out oppressive tendencies without being self-aware.

[hfojvt]

78. it's so diffuse though

and in the video, she mentions eating disorders and other psychological problems.

Which makes me dig out my copy of "Backlash"

"When contrasted with single women, single men fared no better in mental health studies. Single men suffer from twice as many mental health impairments as single women; they are more depressed, more passive, more likely to experience nervous breakdowns and all the designated symptoms of psychological distress - from fainting to insomnia. In one study, one third of single men scored high for severe neurotic symptoms; only 4 percent of the single women did." p. 17

Yeah, this culture is just brutal on women, eh?

[Gravitycollapse]

79. We have a culture that makes female caregiving overly pronounced.

We lay a disproportionate amount of menial, private caregiving tasks on women and men come to expect that their lives be kept running and clean by other women. In other words, men expect women to take care of them.

So when men are left to their own devices, they have a tendency to come undone physically, emotionally and psychologically.

[JustAnotherGen]

89. This is true

Wasn't there some study that showed men's health fared better when married and women's tanked?

Then again - I'm digging out my copy of The Beauty Myth. . .

[Gravitycollapse]

91. Correct. Married women do not have increased life spans.

Studies suggest the opposite. Especially with kids. While married men are the other way around.

Which suggests that men don't know how to take care of themselves without female caretaking.

[nomorenomore08]

96. "Sexually available"? You have an almost bizarrely low threshold for that... Just saying...

[gollygee]

101. What????

You think a woman wearing lipstick is making herself look sexually available? WOW. Frankly, that is rape culture right there. Wearing lipstick has nothing to do with sexual availability. The only thing that make a woman look sexually available is when a woman says or shows in some way that she actually wants sex. Millions and millions of women wear lipstick every day, and a great number of women wear lipstick every day in the workplace, as doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, and obviously their goal is not to look sexually available on the workplace.

[JI7]

33. WTF ? she never said one should never try to be attractive , that has nothing to do with being

seen as an object.

[gollygee]

88. Being sexual and being sexual attractive is not the same as being a sexual object

she can want to be sexually attractive and want to be a sexual subject.

The issue is whether a woman is treated as a subject or an object, not how she dresses or whether she wears makeup or how she wears her hair. She can dress herself up how she wants - and that's the whole entire point. It's what SHE wants.

[Iggo]

74. Question.

If she wasn't wearing makeup, would it be easier for you to understand what she was talking about?

[geek tragedy]

76. Yes. nt

[treestar]

103. You're using the make up to avoid hearing what she said

She's a woman - if she didn't wear make-up, she'd hear about how dowdy she looks rather than have anyone listen to what she said.

[steve2470]

25. That was an excellent video, thanks for posting it nt

[sufrommich]

42. The reletive comfort level of posters trolling this thread

speaks volumes about what is being allowed to pass as discussion here,it's reaching YouTube levels of discourse.

[LanternWaste]

62. That they are is reinforcing my belief that many males are Broken Men.

That they are is reinforcing my belief that many men are Broken Men.

[Fumesucker]

67. Hardly surprising given that we live in a Broken Culture

Plenty of Broken Women out there too.

[wendylaroux]

66. Good video!

So now I understand why I reacted the way I did,when a man,I did not even know,came up behind me at my first job, and said


''Hi baby doll" close to my ear. I was 19,never really dated or anything. But the anger and I felt towards this creep just came bubbling up until I swung around real fast and said something like,"you don't even know my name,what in the hell are you doing calling me baby doll!!??" and then I told him to get the f away from me.The shocked look on his face was wonderful. So guys if you think women like being treated like this you are so wrong. And if you come across women who actually like crap like this,just know these are very sad,pitiful women who don't give a shit about themselves.

[MindMover]

68. Good video, mainly aimed at men in our society ... however, would like to see video ...

for women about the role that women play in objectifying themselves ...

IE: cultural/societal/family pressures, esteem issues ...

and many others that I am too lazy to think of right now ....

[MadrasT]

70. Fabulous. K&R (n/t)

[Luminous Animal]

80. K & R

[redqueen]

81. kick

[G_j]

87. well done!

[BainsBane]

90. kick

[Whisp]

92. K&R

[idendoit]

93. This is no different than.....

..... some guy wearing a $5,000 suit, doing a video, telling me not to objectify rich people.

[Phentex]

95. How do you recognize a $5000 suit?

?

[gollygee]

97. So if a woman is attractive

she isn't allowed to talk about objectification?

[nomorenomore08]

99. I don't get the analogy either... Is he admitting that she's far better-looking than he is?

[treestar]

104. Exactly, no she can't

and if she is unattractive, she can't talk about that either! See how that works?

[gollygee]

105. I think you just summed up sexism

If you're pretty, we won't pay attention to you or take you seriously because you're pretty, and if you aren't pretty we won't pay attention to you or take you seriously because you aren't pretty.

[nomorenomore08]

98. WTF? Just when I thought I'd seen people pull the most ridiculous analogies out of their asses

you come along and blow the curve!

[eShirl]

100. great video! thanks for posting

I'm heartened that young people are "get"ting this

[KitSileya]

102. Here's another good one.

It is just a trailer for a documentary, but it really hits all the high (low) points.¨

[link:

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