You have a right to bear arms.

[Are_grits_groceries]

You do not have a right to shoot in every possible situation.

Too many people are beginning to confuse what is justified. SYG laws have morphed into some surreal attack first and fast justification.

I think that you are going to hurt me because of extraneous factors that have little to do with the exact situation so I will attack first.
This is just plain old use of battlefield tactics and assuming everyone else is the enemy and acting accordingly.

This is not how society should function.

[shenmue]

1. I like the Second Amendment because it gives rights to bears.

Get it? Bear a-

[PowerToThePeople]

2. Bear arms

[DrDan]

31. the right to bare arms

[warrprayer]

3. there should be a special appreciation thread for you

I always enjoy reading your posts!

[tblue37]

4. It is the Bush doctrine of preemptive war, operating at the individual level. nt

[clffrdjk]

5. Is blood finally running in the streets?

[Recursion]

9. No. Homicide rates are 1/2 of what they were 20 years ago

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 10:39 PM - Edit history (2)

But some racial disparities about homicide are finally being reported upon.

Edit: I had "1/3" instead of "1/2" in the title. My bad.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

27. Homicide rates are not 1/3 of what they were 20 years ago

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 1992 there were 23,760 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters in the US, for a rate of 9.3 per hundred thousand population. In 2011, there were 14,612 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters for a rate of 4.7 per 100,000. That's a very significant decrease, but by roughly half, not two-thirds.

[DeadEyeDyck]

35. how does that corollate with gun ownership? nt

[X_Digger]

38. Interesting that you picked 1992, since the UCR doesn't cover that year.

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Let's compare 1993 to 2013.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/24/us/murder-rate-fell-in-1994-for-3d-consecutive-year-agency-says.html

The homicide rate in 1993 was 10.7 per 100,000. The homicide rate in 2013 (preliminary) was 4.3 per 100,000. That's a 59.8% drop.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

55. The table that I cited started with 1992

Did you try the link in my post?

[Recursion]

47. Sorry, that was a typo (nt)

[X_Digger]

49. Actually, it almost is a 60% drop, 1993-2013. (see a couple posts up.)

I'd been thinking it was 50%, too, your post made me go look up 1993 and 2013's preliminary numbers.

[jwirr]

17. Yes, the blood of children.

[Recursion]

6. Even on the battlefield you shouldn't assume that

But, yes, the legal situation as regards use of deadly force in some states is horrifying. We really need to nationalize this, if the states won't do their jobs.

[Adrahil]

7. +1

The right to bear arms has been morphed into the right to shoot whenever one feels threatened. Unacceptable. I favor a duty to retreat in public. I do favor no duty to retreat in a residence, but man, it's getting to be a free fire zone in places like Florida....

[AtheistCrusader]

18. I like Washington's solution.

Here, we have no duty to retreat, but no 'SYG' either. You will, in all likelihood, have to explain your actions to a grand jury in this State, if you use deadly force in self defense.

If you actions aren't reasonable to a room full of people who have A) never been in that situation, B) sitting in a comfortable, air conditioned room, you are probably going to be going to court.

We still have incidents of individuals using deadly force where none is warranted, but I see few/no instances of people getting away with it.

Our homicide rate connected to lawful defensive gun use is much lower than Florida as well.

[Adrahil]

19. I like it. NT

[oneshooter]

58. Sounds a lot like Texas law.

Every shooting goes before a Grand Jury. If they decide the shooting was lawful then no charges are pressed. If that happens the the person is free to go.
If the case is closed by a GJ or if the person is found to be innocent or not guilty by a jury they are then immune to civil action.

[NuclearDem]

8. Of course you have a right to bear arms.

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. Exactly.

One has the right to use lethal force against someone who is legitimately threatening to kill or gravely injure you. One has the right to use lethal force against someone similarly attacking another person. Outside of such situations (like opening fire on someone you;re just arguing with, for example), they you're the attacker, not the defender.

Now that doesn't mean you necessarily have to wait until the other person actually attacks you before defending yourself. But as I see it, if you're going to use preemptive force, you'd damn well better be able demonstrate to the satisfaction of a very critical court that your use of force was genuinely reasonable.

[proudretiredvet]

23. You are right on the money.

I also look at two other places that need some change. Our media is currently in a mode to scare the hell out of the white male public by publishing and pushing every black on white violent crime they can dream up. This is going to cause problems, actually it already is causing problems.
It is fear that pushes some over the edge and fear can and is created by our media.
The media has also begun to justify Lying, by editing, as something that is acceptable. No it is not.
Editing is something that must be done but anytime you use editing to change what they people actually and really say then you should be held accountable for creating that lye.
I like the laws in the UK on this one. If you twist, edit, and spin a persons words to form an untrue statement or lye about the facts you will get sued and can be criminally charged.
Truth and provable facts should mean something to us no matter which side you are on.

[geek tragedy]

11. SYG is a qualified license to kill. All you need is to say

you were afraid for your life, claim the other guy was reaching for a gun or running at you, and it's about a 50/50 chance you'll be acquitted.

[littlewolf]

12. at 2300 you kick in my front door

you are going to eating triple 0 buckshot.
in town, you try and assault or rob me, good chance
you are going to be looking down the business end
of my Glock 19 or 21 (9 mm & .45acp respectfully)
and what happens after that is on you.

that is how I see SYG ...

[Ed Suspicious]

14. I love the internet tough guy talk. Makes me hot and horny!

[jwirr]

16. However, the way the law has been used lately the victims have been innocent or children. How is

that good for any of us.

[otohara]

24. Will We Be Reading About You?

someday.

You kinda sound like the next Zimmerman or Dunn.
Things haven't turned out so well for either of those hot heads with their bad ass guns.

Try not to shoot children okay.

[proudretiredvet]

25. Kick in my front door and your going to run into three big trained dogs.

If the intruders start shooting my dogs I'll know they are law enforcement.

[littlewolf]

40. LOL welcome to DU ...

[Skittles]

44. a long time ago I worked at an answering service

got a call from cops one day requesting I contact the owner of a business - a burgler had broken into a warehouse and the three dobermans inside had the guy cornered - when I contacted the owner, he said yeah, they'd let someone come in but they would not let them leave until he gave the command

[XRubicon]

41. Cool fantasy world bro!

I like to pretend I can fly.

[retread]

43. How will you hear the noise from your mom's basement?

[jwirr]

13. If I remember correctly before SYG laws we had the right to self-defense but in every case you had

to prove that it was self-defense. And self defense had a different meaning in the two laws. Our old law worked but this new thing is just a license to go hunting. We need to go back to the old laws in this case.

[AtheistCrusader]

20. In many states, 'syg' just confers civil immunity where the person who used

lethal force in self defense cannot be charged with a crime. Can't be sued in civil court for wrongful death or any of that nonsense.

In the case of florida, the SYG statute actually tweaked the language of the law that establishes the 'reasonableness' of self defense as well.

Each state implementation is slightly different.

[groundloop]

15. Nobody wants to see my bare arms, they're kinda' hairy looking

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. The day they signed SYG into law here in Florida, I just had a bad feeling.

This See You Next Tuesday, chief NRA Lobbyist Marion Hammer, couldn't have been happier, however.

[Sheldon Cooper]

29. Nice gender slur.

I thought better of you.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

30. That's a bomb I almost never drop.

But for her, I honestly don't care.

She's a piece of excrement, and the "work" she's done in my state is horrific and exemplary of everything that is wrong in politics.

Fuck her.

[myrna minx]

36. Nice dog whistle. You know, this emboldened slurring against women really makes DU suck.

At least we know where you stand with regards to women though. I'm sure you'll get many *high fives*.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. I'm not here to get high fives.

It's just an immediate visceral reaction whenever I see that woman's face and what she represents and advocates. If you google her, you'll find that she is truly a horrible, horrible person.

To be fair, I'd just as happily refer to the person next to her, Jeb Bush, as a dick. But that has the fortune of also being a person's name. And calling him a penis just sounds, well, awkward.

[Eleanors38]

50. Well, Myrna, when it comes to gun control, you can say anything it seems.

[Lizzie Poppet]

53. Yep...even the C-word gets a pass, apparently.

"Some animals are more equal than others."

[Eleanors38]

54. Play slash & burn in one woods, sets the forrest on fire.

[myrna minx]

56. Actually - when it comes to some folks' ideas about women, you can say anything, it seems.

A DUer felt entitled to refer to a woman (albeit a despicable woman) as a c*nt and the jury approved of a DUer calling a woman a c*nt with flying colors. The tolerance for misogyny here is upsetting.

[Eleanors38]

57. Well this toter (and the ones I know in DU) don't use the expression...

We do, however, hear comparisons to "penis extenders" and "gun-humping" every time, all the time, and with "Alert" impunity. The pro-2A women are subject to this as well. Again, with impunity.

I guess it's moral collateral damage when a group exerts control over a forum.

[Lizzie Poppet]

42. Wow. A jury actually voted, 4-2, to keep this shitstain of a post.

And you're still not offering the apology you should be (or at the very least deleting or editing) for this kind of misogynist vileness...

No one here, not even gun rights supporters like me, has any use for Marion Hammer and her ilk...but using a blatant dog whistle for the C-word is utterly unacceptable and contrary to everything this site stands for. What's next, a thinly-veiled reference to the N-word for a black person you don't like?

[mathematic]

22. I clicked on this because I thought there would be a cute bear pic

n/t.

[raven mad]

34. Ok, ok, ok............

[MrScorpio]

26. Agreed!

[Beacool]

28. Oh, I thought that this would be about baring arms.

Mrs. Michelle Obama: Right to Bare Arms



http://photos.essence.com/galleries/mrs-michelle-obama-right-bare-arms/

[Skittles]

45. oh wow

she is simply exquisite

[H2O Man]

32. Please don't arm the bears.

[sarisataka]

33. Why we love America

no background check on private sales to bears

[Contrary1]

39. But, but, but...

What if someone questions me as to why I am stalking them, or text messages at an inappropriate time, or plays my most unfavorite music too loud, or...?

What about those threatening times in my life?

[Skittles]

46. you forgot the threat of projectile popcorn, Contrary1

yes INDEED

[one_voice]

48. k&r

[WhiteTara]

51. Only if I do the Queen's wave!

oh wait...sorry this was a serious discussion.

[Deep13]

52. Bears should keep their arms. I have my own. nt