I would walk through fire for the women of DU, my wife, my daughter, my mother, every woman I know.

[WilliamPitt]

I strongly, strongly suspect that just about every man here would do the same.

Vote for an anti-choice, trans-vaginal-utrasound supporting politician? Never.

Sexually harass a co-worker? Never.

Witness a man brutalizing a woman? That man is bleeding on the sidewalk at my feet, and I have to go get my knuckles stitched.

Raise your hand if you agree.

The Swimsuit Edition of SI? With every passing year, more and more people of both sexes are coming to see how silly the thing is. I haven't bought a copy of the thing since the Reagan administration. I think it's dying, and the only reason it still exists is because men like looking at pretty girls, and that sells copy. They continue to get away with running the thing year after year because it is "tradition." I think that's slowly dying; a sports magazine running tits and ass is just absurd profiteering under that veil of "tradition," and it won't last much longer, I believe.

A lot of hard feelings around here lately. We men are far from perfect, and the anti-woman evil currently stalking the land leaves wide, deep footprints. It shakes the very ground.

But it's not me. I'm with you, and if I get it wrong sometimes, know that I am trying to be better. Every single day.

I speak only for myself here...but I think I speak for a whole lot of DU men, as well...and if I don't speak for you, then in my humble opinion, you're in the wrong place.

I'm with you. I would walk through fire for you. I would jump off a building for you.

And I don't think I am alone.

[KamaAina]

1. Here you go.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. I love this song. nt

[KamaAina]

78. I have heard Melissa described as "the female Bruce".

And I'm a Bruce fan from way back.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

79. She's so good it's almost a crime nt

[hlthe2b]

2. Today show (which I rarely watch) made a big deal about Willie "hanging out" with all these models..

A very stereoptypical segment--complete with Willie and Matt and others all but drooling. That they were not embarrassed at the perpetuation of that gross stereotype ought to infuriate all.

I would like to think progressive men would join in saying ENOUGH to that kind of objectification and total devaluation of women. That that segment coincided with the Olympics, where the most incredible women athletes join the men in demonstrating the very "best" they can be, just makes it all the worse to me. If I were a progressive man--hell, any man, I'd be truly ashamed. As a progressive woman working in a traditional "man's" field, I have become all too numbed to this--but angry all the same.

Women are far MORE than their bodies and their WORTH should not, could not, must not be measured by their bra and butt size. Why is that so hard to understand?????

[Ed Suspicious]

11. I think they had two or three days worth of shill for that rag on the Today show. It was kind of

sickening. One time was annoying, more that that and I'm like "what the hell is your point?"

[BlancheSplanchnik]

46. + a zillion. n/t

[DURHAM D]

3. Just so you know...

The women of DU would do the same for the men of DU who are supportive and who just generally get it.

[Zorra]

6. +1 for you, +1 for the OP

[TDale313]

8. + 1000

Will, thank you for the OP. You're the best.

There are a lot of amazing, smart, caring men on DU that truly get it. And of course everyone makes mistakes occasionally. Gods know I have.

But there is a group of men on DU who seem intent on belittling women who speak up, who mock them when they say "this is my experience, this is an issue for me, for many women", who frankly seem intent on making sure certain DU women know their place- that's not cool.



We do need to come together, to treat each other with respect.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

44. and MIRT/Admin needs to take sexism seriously.

the men who get off on belittling women, and relishing the attack, hide behind artful sarcasm. And it works. They get off on ridiculing women, belittling our experience, and playing asinine word games.
So do their female enablers.

Alerts ---> juries rarely, and I mean RARELY, pay attention to the context and intent of the post(s).

[etherealtruth]

64. "and MIRT/Admin needs to take sexism seriously."

This is very troubling, indeed

[FourScore]

160. Apparently, it is "an opportunity for learning."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594976

I'm very saddened by this response.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

189. god. dammit. I guarantee,

if it were racists bombarding the place, admin and juries would see it and stop it.

Your post was absolutely spot on and eloquent. I already pointed someone to check it at ATA.

Hmmm…I'd like to DO something, but I don't know what, other than advocate for as many people as possible to put them on ignore. And/or more pleas asking more people to step in and shame the jerk-offs. Except that gives them more attention, which they like.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

183. And there's a group of persons on DU that seems to enjoy belittling anybody.

To be fair, you find them on all sites.
Thanks for the well said words Will.
Here's a great guild on how to achieve more total equality for all.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

[MadrasT]

17. Yes indeed. n/t

[BlueMTexpat]

112. Absolutely! eom

[Aerows]

168. I would, too

and I stand with them AND our women.

[theboss]

4. While your martyrdom is probably appreciated, I think it is unnecessary

I think the swimsuit issue is a remaining vestige of when sports was a boys club and SI mattered. Both of those things are on their way out.

When I was in junior high, I would race home on Thursdays (I believe) to get my copy of SI out of the mailbox. It was the only way to get any kind of national perspective and national coverage on sports - aside from some small game stories on Page 3 of the local paper. The swimsuit issue - in those pre-Internet days - was incredibly important. I still remember taking the Kathy Ireland in the yellow bikini issue to school the next day, because why wouldn't I?

The swimsuit issue seems so silly now. There are dozens upon dozens of websites to get a pictures of models in bikinis (and much less) on a daily basis. Since I wasn't getting Vogue, I had limited opportunities to see Paulina Porizkova nearly naked in 1987. The SI swimsuit issue met that need for me. (And it was a need).

Anyway, I haven't bought a copy of SI in close to a decade. Why on earth do I need week old stories in 2014?

Question: how many dudes in the 70s and 80s kept all their copies of SI (and Sport and Inside Sport) in some kind of storage locker? I had 15 years worth of them by the time I was done law school and my parents decided that I should no longer use their home as a storage unit.

[louslobbs]

5. I take this stand with you William. I don't even think most people get how large and formidable a

force we really are.

Lou

[unblock]

7. i agree comple -- wait, jump off a building??

[WilliamPitt]

9. I got a job with JPMorgan.

Too soon?

[unblock]

10. i'm just trying to visualize the scenario...

i mean, walk through fire for a woman, that i get.

burning house, heroic rescue, sure.


but jumping off a building?

either that's insurance fraud or great aim to jump on an assailant.

unless the assailant moves slightly. no matter, i'm sure that woman would always treasure the memory of your tragic comic book demise. then again, between you plunging to your death before her eyes and whatever her assailant did to her anyway, she'd probably permanently block all memories of that fateful day....

[WinkyDink]

15. Took me a couple seconds there!

[dhill926]

26. Nah….

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. Thank you. nt

[WinkyDink]

13. I *heart* WilliamPitt.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. We've let the DU women take all the fire on this issue.

Thank you for standing up. More DU men need to stand up and speak out.

[pnwmom]

38. Thank you,Warren. n/t

[DURHAM D]

48. This is much appreciated. nt

[Demeter]

18. But will you

take out the trash?
change the cat box, baby, lightbulb?
cook something, anything?
say something nice?

Then come on over to my place!

[WilliamPitt]

20. I am the one who goes to the dump.

I change the cat box every week.

I am the primary caretaker for the baby, which includes changing diapers.

I just changed a bunch of light bulbs.

I cook dinner every night.

And I am always nice.

I do not need or expect thanks, either.

This is what I volunteered for. And it is wonderful.

[HockeyMom]

29. Married to a Republican for 40 years

and yeah, I do that. Do I wish it weren't as extreme? Sure, but I have learned to live with it. In many ways., I have learned to deal with a lot of things myself and know it is totally up to me (like safety and protection). He is a gunner and I don't share his views on that, but I have told him that I WILL take care of myself. You save yourself, and I save myself. Our children are grown and out of the picture now, but they are Dems and they and their spouses agree with me. I raised my kids right?

Voting? That was decided very early on. Don't dare tell me how to vote. Yeah, he blasts Obama all the time, BUT I voted for him, and my husband has to live with it. lol

[Skittles]

45. may I rent you, WilliamPitt?

yes INDEED

[MrMickeysMom]

67. Every week?

You mean you don't change it every day?

[LuvNewcastle]

19. Oh yeah, well I'd drag my balls through broken glass all the way through Hell.

So there.

[gwheezie]

21. Thank you

I'm new here and trying to understand the culture of this group, I kinda like that there is more than one opinion here on a variety of issues but I glanced through some of the SI related threads and found some of the comments offensive. I am starting to recognize folks I have no interest in interacting with, the benefit of these kinds of threads just makes it easier to identify them. The reverse is true, I've already found a few posters I look forward to reading, I'm sure there are more of those folks than the other here.

[TBF]

22. I live in TX and I recognize them -

only down here in the neighborhoods they call themselves republicans. They don't call themselves that when they are trolling, but I recognize them just the same.

Unfortunately there is misogyny on the left as well, but I don't believe that is what is affecting GD right now. Folks can get on this website easily if they are polite in the beginning - that is all it takes.

[Enthusiast]

23. You said it, William! K&R!

[TheMathieu]

24. I'd walk through fire to defend the right of people to pose half naked.

And my right to look at it and discuss it with other interested parties.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

42. of course you have a right….but not to impose it on others.

You have a total right to look at masturbation material….just keep it in the right context. Night clubs, adult bookstores, your home, other sexually charged venues.

You don't have a right to do it in our faces.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024522226

[Scootaloo]

54. And you have a right to strive to be ignorant

One which you seem to relish.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. and we women have the right to defend the fact that it is INAPPROPRIATE in Sports Illustrated.

I am not against posing half or even fully naked...I AM however appalled when it happens in a place like Sports Illustrated on the cover....a magazine that PRAISES athletic pursuit....not T&A there are plenty of OTHER places to see that...

[progressoid]

25. I have three daughters so...yeah.

[RBStevens]

27. that man is bleeding on the sidewalk at my feet -

How does more violence help anything.

A man is beating a woman and you, presumably another man, are going to beat him bloody and be the victor over violence against... well women I suppose?

Violence is violence and it doesn't help anyone.

[WilliamPitt]

31. So

If you saw a man brutalizing a woman, you'd...what? Give him a stern talking-to?

Do you get out much? It doesn't work like that. Sad but true.

[RBStevens]

34. Call the police? Shout fire maybe like women used to be told to do?

it just sounded like you think violence is an answer to violence.

But, yeah, sometimes just saying "stop that shit" is enough and you might not even need stitches afterwards.

[pnwmom]

40. I think you're taking what Will said a bit too literally. Saying "stop that shit" would fall

within the range of his reactions, I'm sure -- depending on the provocation.

[RBStevens]

43. Maybe but why the violent hyperbole then?

I just see too many people talking violence when they probably don't mean it or would be too afraid for their own safety to actually do the things they say they'd do.

I'm just not a big fan of violence is all.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. Because when someone is being beaten, it is perfectly acceptable to deploy force on behalf of the

victim.

I'm not a pacifist, I believe in the non-aggression principle. That doesn't stop me from physically intervening on someone's behalf.
His example was hyperbolic, but within the realm of legal and moral possibility.

[RBStevens]

56. I might physically intervene as well if it was the only option

but I am not an especially big or strong. I agree that we have a legal and even moral right to intervene but often it is the person who is doing the defending who winds up in legal trouble. Not the person who started the violence in the first place.

I just wish that people would stop using violent language when they probably don't really mean it.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

28. Shorter:

I would chew broken glass for any woman including my mom, wife, or daughter

But I like's me some classic 20th century soft porn

Besides, it's going extinct

[VanillaRhapsody]

151. Oh really? I hadn't noticed that at all....

seems to be MORE not less...

[hedgehog]

30. This topic reminds me of the occasional postings notifying some members

that a seemingly innocuous phrase or tradition can have very loaded meanings. I am thinking specifically of the phrase "tar baby". For me, growing up in white neighborhoods in the North, it was used to designate a problem you brought upon yourself. I had no idea that it was used in other places to denigrate African American children. We had a similar discussion last week in which Mr.Scorpio educated many of us as to why associating fried chicken with African Americans is such a charged practice. (I knew that that is a bad idea, I just never knew why.)

That said, I know that many, including myself ( an old white woman) saw the SI Swim suit edition as a silly but harmless set of pictures. Given some of the photos I've been exposed to in work places over the years, it is rather tame. What I have learned from all the recent discussions of the SI swimsuit issue is that I do not have to tolerate this or other such objectifications of women's bodies as business as usual.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

37. there it is right there…..

What I have learned from all the recent discussions of the SI swimsuit issue is that I do not have to tolerate this or other such objectifications of women's bodies as business as usual.



This is what makes trying again and again to point out and explain the issue worthwhile.


Thanks for sharing that.

[eridani]

130. Cheesecake photos in the lab used to be common when I was in grad school

Want to know the best way of getting them taken down? Just post gay male porn with the full monty right next to every one. Just takes a day for all of it to be removed. (Including one on a clock face--a naked dick on the minute hand worked wonders.)

Seems that straigt men don't like sexual objectification aimed at themselves.

[hedgehog]

138. My first exposure to some hard core porn was in a machine shop -

I saw the picture and it was so strange I couldn't figure out what I was seeing at first. On second, I couldn't figure out what was so attractive about a gynecological shot, albeit not in a doctor's office1

[marions ghost]

204. Creative!

I like creative solutions. Your example and the fetishized men on morotcycles pix--are in the same vein.

[pacalo]

32. It's not women's issues that cause the disturbances.

It's the clash in personalities. Overbearing authoritative personalities that are more focused on other DUers than the truly important issues that are at stake under Republican rule.

[Scootaloo]

58. Well, not really...

it's more a case of some dickheads being offended by the notion that someone might be bothered by the reduction of a human being into an object, and deciding to troll based around this impossibly great offense. As trolling often does, it gets a response.

basically it went like this:

Feminist poster: "The new Swimsuit issue is ridiculously silly and objectifying. look, you can even see the pixels!"

Fuck-Ape*: "HOW DARE YOU?! WHY DO YOU HYSTERICAL HAGS HATE SEX?!?!"

Feminist poster: "What? Wait... no, what? I'm making a point that...

An Askew Tale*: "I'm with Fuck-Ape! You frigid bitches are trying to control us!"

Feminist poster: "No, I'm saying that this heavily-edited cover is another example of our society's treatment of women's bodies as commodities."

ManfredSilverstone*: She got paid for it, right?"

Feminist poster: "Obviously, but that's not..."

ManfredSIlverstone: Then it wasn't commodification. Here, I'm posting a lot of half-naked pictures right now!"

Feminist poster: "That doesn't even make sense!"

Fuck-Ape: "There you go trying to control the discourse. You just hate men! Here's some more nudies, trollolololol!"

Random Poster#1: "I'm totally uninvolved but both sides are equally bad and Feminist poster needs to stop hating sex and realize boys will be boys!"

an Askew Tale: "I agree. OH NOW NOW THEY WILL ALERT ON ME!"

Feminist Poster: "I think this place might have a problem..."

TheWalterMatthaeu*: "OMG Stop whining and being so meta! Can't I read about ducks hugging kittens without all this far-left arguing?!"

An Askew Tale: "I'm going to make thirty new threads about how persecuted i am because I have testicles and choose to wear them on my head sometimes!"

Feminist Poster: "Fuck you guys, I'm done."

Fuck-Ape: That fucking bitch fucking said fuck! Alert! Alert! Alert!"

Admin: "Feminist Poster's account is now under review..."



* - Actual names have been replaced with randomly-generated alphanumeric code s as to not impinge upon the identities of the posters referenced in this hyperbolized summary of events.

[sufrommich]

62. That....that was beautiiful.

I'm in awe.

[pacalo]

66. The language doesn't bother you?

(Remembering the never-ending crusade against certain words during the Meta days.)

[pacalo]

63. Thanks. Your post reminds me of the other irritations that cause division...

Misrepresentation of what other people write, distortions of the truth, double standards, & hypocrisy.

Did you know that the language that you used would have been alerted on during the Meta days? (Don't worry, though, it's okay for you & those you're defending to use those words; they'll be fine with it.)

[Scootaloo]

68. Did you know that I was around during "meta days"?

Further, did you know you can alert on whatever you want?

And as I said, it was hyperbole - it would have to be, to condense a week of this horse shit into a single post.

As for division... I'm more than happy to cleave away from other men who believe their testicles take priority over all considerations when posting on DU. If this makes you feel sad... well... sorry.

[pacalo]

75. You're missing the "sadness" point...

Are discussions about personal preferences & human nature between the two sexes more important on DU than the Republicans' current crusade against women? I see more angst about the former & nothing from them about the latter.

[Old and In the Way]

104. Exactly right.

None of these so-called feminists spend any time talking about the political issues of Republican policies and the real damage they are doing to women's rights. Instead, they spend all of their time determined to make every male on this board feel like we are the problem instead of part of the solution. This is an anonymous board and no one knows (with a few obvious exceptions) as to what people's gender's are. We have to take each other's word on that. But if I was a serious disruptor, looking to destroy this board, this is exactly how I'd take it apart - make 95% of the males posting here the 'enemy' and post nothing but gender flamebait.

Weird thing is, in my 60+ years on this Earth, I've never met any feminist that has such an animosity for the opposite sex. Makes me wonder.

[pacalo]

108. I've never seen anything like it, either.

The Meta forum was a real eye-opener. Now that it's gone, they're turning GD into Meta, hiding behind a "women's rights" sheriff's badge to agitate & to keep the fires burning. (Never mind that they have their own "safe haven" for discussing other DUers women's issues.)

I think they should be lauded with an OP, don't you?

[Scootaloo]

131. Wait, you think the war on women is restricted by party?

It's not Democrat vs. Republican here, it's progressive vs. reactionary. And the plain ol' fact is, DU has its fair share of the lattr opposed to the former.

So let's be fucking honest here. We all knw that the Repubicans are out to fuck us all over. We got that. The trouble right now is that there's plenty of people in our own ranks who want desperately be be useful idiots for those shitheads. I would definitely put that first and foremost, because I want to make sure the people on my team aren't playing for the other guy before I take the field, y'know?

[pacalo]

185. If you're *that* concerned about weeding out trolls, join the MIR team.

(You can then visit all the threads & showcase your DU power by interjecting that you're on the almighty MIR team, followed by an inside anecdote that only other MIRT members will be privy to, & perhaps that will fill the need for bullying others.)

[Isoldeblue]

85. Fantastic!

[kcr]

95. Perfect

Absolutely spot on.

[cui bono]

96. "I have testicles and choose to wear them on my head sometimes!"

Is it wrong that I'm laughing? Perhaps. But we all make fun of teabaggers when they act like that. And those types flaunt their disrespect and love to offend so whatever.

[laundry_queen]

102. That's pretty much cramming the whole week into one post.

And totally spot-on.

[gollygee]

115. Ha!

That's perfect!

[Bobbie Jo]

117. rofl

"Fuck-Ape?"

[Paladin]

119. Bravo! (nt)

[eShirl]

134. omg that's brilliant

[Small Accumulates]

137. Brilliant!

And why am I not surprised? You are a sharp observer.

[JTFrog]

139. That was brilliant! n/t

[FourScore]

161. The best post I've ever seen at DU!! n/t

[Scout]

165. thank you!

[geek tragedy]

178. snort, chuckle, guffaw nt

[mythology]

188. At least you at admit that you hyperbolized that

So perhaps you might not exactly be an unbiased source. What with making things up to denigrate and discredit those who don't agree with you.

[Jamastiene]

194. I wish I could bookmark a single post.

This one would be one I would love to bookmark. Nailed it.

[antiquie]

59. Nicely put. ~ nt

[one_voice]

61. This..^^^

I am a woman, I have a daughter, a mother, a sister and a son. Issues are very important to me.

The issues aren't the problem. Truth be told we probably agree more than disagree.

It's how the disagreements are addressed/handled. As if there can't be two different opinions, both good for women.

Not everyone sees every issue the same, but I'm almost 100% sure everyone wants the same thing in the end. You don't have to agree to drive the same road to get there, as long as you get there.

Anyway that's my little .02

[pacalo]

72. I totally agree, one voice.

Also, my husband -- & probably yours, too -- would be able to see through all the b.s. going on in those discussions like a pane of glass.

It's nothing more than a need to control others. I don't see any OPs from them in regard to the Republicans' crusade against women. They're more interested in baiting other DUers about human nature.

And, of course, it's a vanity thing, too -- OPs created for the sake of seeking attention.

[llmart]

33. I hope the women in your life know how lucky they are.

Also, having a daughter sure makes some men see things differently. I'm not saying you weren't decent towards women before you had a daughter, (I don't even really know you), but you have to admit it sure brings it to the forefront and personalizes things, doesn't it?

[WilliamPitt]

41. You could say that

Yeah.

[llmart]

70. They are beautiful.

Your daughter has soulful eyes and I love her expression in the second picture. My daughter is about to celebrate her 39th birthday and I have so many wonderful memories of her from the first moment I laid eyes on her to the one three years ago when she got married and everything in between. She had a feminist for a mother and I tried to instill self-respect and self-confidence in her. I was always secretly glad that she didn't get married too young and that she waited for the right man - one who treats her like an equal and respects her.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

35. thank you Will Pitt.

I appreciate this post, as I'm sure many others do.

[Liberalynn]

36. Thank You Will

[kath]

39. great post, Will. One nit to pick-

If you'd said "men like to look at pretty WOMEN" instead of "pretty girls" it would have been perfect, since most, if not all, of the females in the magazine are over 18 and therefore no longer girls.

Adult men are rarely referred to as boys, except in a jocular sense (or in the old racial slur, of course). Adult women would like the same respect.

Edited to add- Language does matter.

[Lucky Luciano]

51. Actually I am not sure about that.

I have never referred to a 20-something guy as a "man." I always thought of them as "guys" or "dudes" - I would even say, "Yeah that kid is..." If I were to say, "I was talking to this man at the party..." when in fact it was just some 20 year old dude, it would seem out of place or weirdly formal. If a male looks like the age at which he has kids and a career, then I think that is when I say "man," though I don't think there is a real rule to it. Kids/real career are what make someone serious enough to be "man" or "sir." The carefree youth has been fully extracted by then. All that said, yeah - I never call them boys.

Similarly, I never thought of a 20 something female as a "woman" so much either for much the same reason. I have referred to 20 something females as girls many times. What is the equivalent of "dude" for females? The word "kid" only works on guys I think of that age. A female in her late 20s or 30s - yeah, I pretty much always say "woman."

[rudolph the red]

47. What short memories we have at DU

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

The OP was once banned from this site for repeatedly threatening a female DUer.

[Common Sense Party]

97. And you would know this HOW? With your 225 posts and your late 2013 join date?

My, but you pay close attention to Will Pitt's past!

How are your FReeper buddies?

[rudolph the red]

99. It's a public forum

I have been reading since 2005. I was an active duty Marine, so I didn't register at political sites until I got out. Take your FReeper accusation and stick it up your ass sideways.

[skepticscott]

149. Thank you!

I was wondering if anyone else remembered what this OP is really like, or if the thread would be nothing but fawning praise.

[DinahMoeHum]

49. In the spirit of the Winter Olympics, here is a real man and father.

His daughter goes for the gold medal in women's bobsledding tomorrow:



http://espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-life/blog/post/10454/halfway-gold

[SummerSnow]

52. Thank you :)

[gademocrat7]

53. Thank you, Will.

[mithnanthy]

55. Thank you Will

And thank your Mother, Raven. for raising such a great person and thank your wife for being the true love of your life for joining you in creating their most precious angel in your world.

[lillypaddle]

57. Yes, I believe that

It is a shame it has come to this. So much of this has been silly, crazy ... I am a feminist. I have fought for women's rights for longer than many here have been alive. And yet I have been attacked by those who claim to be "feminists." I have been told that I'm trying to please the "boys" here. I hate the bullying. That is part of what I have fought against for so many years. I resent a few telling me and others what a feminist is or is not.

WilliamPitt. I have never doubted you for a moment.

I have a sense of humor. I am 66 years old and I have somewhat mellowed during those long years. I laugh at myself. I laugh at my sisters. I laugh at you. I laugh.

I think many of us are pushing back. I find myself supporting threads I would ordinarily not support, simply because I want to get a rise out of some people. It is petty of me. I am sorry I am petty that way.

I have raised a son. He is 46 years old, married, with a daughter who is 20 months old. My son is a feminist. That is how I raised him to be. It is one of the few things I did right. So proud of him, so proud of my daughter-in-law, so proud of my granddaughter.

When I turned 50, I had nude pictures taken of myself. When I saw them, I thought, "OMG, those are awful!" My friend said to me, "hey, when you are 65, you will look at those and say, 'damn, I was HOT.' And yeah, DAMN, I was hot!

So ... Thanks Will Pitt. I appreciate you so much. And I appreciate DU, and most of the men who post here. And of course it goes without saying that I appreciate most of the women who post here as well. But I will NEVER EVER appreciate the women who have the gall to claim they are the righteous feminists and speak for the rest of us. Fuck them. Fuck them.

[MadrasT]

81. Please show me one occasion where anyone here claimed to speak for you.

"Fuck them"

Really?

That is so sad.

Maybe, just maybe, we could all try to have a little compassision and understand that we have all walked different paths and when someone feels strongly about something, they have come to that place with good reason.

"Fuck them."

Comments like that make DU suck.

Never mind. Don't bother to show me anything. Too disgusted to return to this thread.

[Tsiyu]

91. Cool story bro

that part about anyone claiming to be a "righteous feminist who speaks for the rest of us."



Fighting windmills, ye may be

[LittleBlue]

92. There's only one thing wrong with that

When I turned 50, I had nude pictures taken of myself. When I saw them, I thought, "OMG, those are awful!" My friend said to me, "hey, when you are 65, you will look at those and say, 'damn, I was HOT.' And yeah, DAMN, I was hot!

You forgot to upload your pics

Just kidding. Superb post, Lilly.

[lillypaddle]

113. LOL

[JTFrog]

141. I imagine that the "righteous feminists" who claim to speak for "the rest of us"

probably wouldn't say fuck you right back. Of course there aren't any righteous feminists who claim to speak for all women on DU, so that's neither here nor there.

There are however, many feminists who were part of history and/or have been fighting for women's rights for most of their lives. They would probably say "You're welcome".

[lillypaddle]

181. It's not a contest

and it shouldn't be a fight. And yes there are those who think they are the only way.

[Agony]

60. Yup.

RBStevens has a point however. Violence should be a last resort. Still... you are sooo right on!

Will

[etherealtruth]

65. Thank you and thank you to all of the men on DU that share your sentiments

[MoonRiver]

69. Thank you Will!

My husband feels exactly the same, except for the fact that he is never on DU. But you know what I mean.

[City Lights]

71. Thanks, Will.

[zeemike]

73. Well that too is a male stereotype

That men have to protect women...and one I am proud to say I agree with.

But this gender war going on here is divisive and will come to no good end...already there is a suggestion in this thread that MIRT should start banning people for having opinions that do not match the opinions of a group...and this is not the first time or subject that it has come up on. And there is a growing list of words that cannot be said and thoughts that cannot be expressed.
If we attempt to purify DU we will turn it into a place where no substantive discussion ever takes place...but will be a perpetual witch hunt to root out the evil.

And the very fact that I am saying this will earn me the title of misogynist among some...and may get my post alerted on...and calls for my expulsion when things progress the way some people would like to see...well so be it, when we get to that point where we can no longer be honest on this board it is over.

[Ferretherder]

121. Well, I'm just gonna' jump in here and say,...

'thank you, for that!' I got your back, bro!

...and by the way, even if some of you don't believe it, all of DU's female posters, I got your back, too.

I'm not on the men's side. I'm not on the women's side. Because there AIN'T SIDES. We are in this, together. Together, we'll weed out the idiot guys that try to dehumanize women and treat them as objects, and not fellow human beings, and, together, we'll try to change the minds of those women who feel most, if not all, men are just waiting for their chance to rape or denigrate them in some form or fashion. WE can come together, and accomplish ANYTHING.........

......or, we can fight each other, tooth and nail, and end up becoming the enemy we thought was our common foe.

Sorry, if some of you think I'm being too 'defensive' about this - yes, I'm a male - but, I'm also not going to say something that is not really the way that I feel.

I really do have EVERYONE'S back, here - women and men - with ALL due respect.

[Curmudgeoness]

74. Thank you. Sincerely. But

please don't jump off a building for me. We need all the mature men to stay alive. I appreciate the thought, but just don't.

[Shankapotomus]

77. Are you kidding me?

I'm perfectly comfortable cowering behind today's women. They can mess shit up.

[RiffRandell]

80. So romantic...RIP Whitney.

[MadrasT]

82. William Pitt...

...do not walk through fire.

No one should go to such extremes.

All I wish for, is that we'd hear some supportive words now and again.

Thanks for adding your voice.

[The Traveler]

83. Summarizes my feelings on the matter rather well

I point out we guys have to expect women's sensitivities to some of these subjects have to be, must be, and unavoidably are elevated. After all, advances in women's rights are under direct assault from a couple dozen different directions, and indirect assault from dozens more. The outcome of the struggle to preserve (and dare we hope, expand to include equal pay?) women's rights is by no means certain. All this fuels a certain tension.

I personally don't know a single woman who is not apprehensive about the future status of women's rights in this country. Not one. Think about that for a minute.

"A lot of hard feelings around here lately. We men are far from perfect, and the anti-woman evil currently stalking the land leaves wide, deep footprints. It shakes the very ground."

It does. It does. But we cannot let these tensions divide us. We have to hold this line! We cannot allow the knuckledraggers the power to oppress half of our fellow citizens and undo the progress painfully made over decades. We should be building on that progress, yes. But at the moment, we have to circle 'round and defend its very foundations.

On the subject of violence ... I sympathize with those who object to its use, but in this context I cannot agree with them. I don't know Will. I can't speak for him. Perhaps he was speaking hyperbolically. But having read his stuff over the years I am unconvinced of that. I can well imagine Will, were he to encounter a man assaulting a women, surfing in on a tidal wage of rage fueled adrenalin, fists swinging fast. I would do the same. I HAVE done the same. Expect no apologies.

Sometimes, ya got to call the cops and wait for them to arrive and sort things out. Sometimes, ya gots to intervene, and sweet reason seldom works in that scenario. Seconds are precious and excruciating to a woman (or anyone) under assault. I acknowledge that we do tend to resort to, and even glorify, violence too frequently in this nation. I get that. But that does not make it acceptable to stand by, waiting, while something like that goes down. There are many who will disagree with me, and that is their right, but I am fairly convinced they are wrong.

Trav

[madinmaryland]

84. Ok. Didn't you threaten to beat up a female DUer several years ago and got yourself

tombstoned for a few weeks?

Enough with the sanctimony, Will.

[Whisp]

94. yep

I'd be honest enough to say I would NOT crawl through hot glass or whatever was said to protect Every Man out there... some People are just not worth it.

This whole thing sounds too knightish for me. Thanks but no thanks. I know genuine support when I hear it and I know grandstanding when I smell it.

Just so happens I have a building that is doing nothing at the moment...

[hfojvt]

101. I was not aware of that

sadly, I have missed many episodes of "As the DU turns".

But without knowing who the female is/was and the provocations and the exact nature of what was taken as a "threat" it's hard to know how to feel about that.

Presumably it is all now water under the damn.

[msanthrope]

152. That's you...bringing facts into the situation....nt

[WilliamPitt]

179. Your first sentence is factually correct.

But there's a little more meat on the bone.

1. The poster in question went after my mother, who posts here, in a vile way. I saw bright, flaming red, and reacted in a way I'm ashamed of to this day...but it was my mother being attacked. Not me. Her, to get to me. It got to me.

2. At the time I responded, I did not know the poster in question was a woman. That is not an excuse - threatening bodily harm against anyone is shameful - but it is a fact. I did not know the poster in question was a woman. Screen names do not always provide gender information. Hers didn't. I didn't know, and I never clicked the icon to check.

So. Sit in judgment as you wish. I fucked up, no doubt and for sure...but it's not as cut-and-dried as your comment would suggest. Go after my mother and you're going to hear about it from me...but if it makes any difference, that my-fault fiasco profoundly altered the way I approach online conversation, here and elsewhere. I no longer allow vile shit to get so far under my skin that I erupt the way I did against that person. It's not worth it; that happened years ago, and here you are chucking it in my face. The Internet never forgets. Neither, apparently, do you.

Now you know maybe a little more than you did when you posted that comment. Hope it helps.

Fuck the Eagles.

[madinmaryland]

182. William. A couple of things to in regards to your comments...

1.) I actually had an email (DU) exchange with your during the time before that even happened. I was concerned that she was giving away too much information about you and herself, given that the freaks over at CC were going after you and I didn't want them to get any information about you that they shouldn't have. I was very familiar with what those vile pieces of shit did to Andy Stephenson.

2.) As I remember at the time, she was quite well known on DU as being homeless and very acerbic (by most of the regulars here). You are right, it was shameful. I do believe that Skinner made the right decision to TS you for that outburst, regardless whatever her issues were. I also felt that he made the right decision bringing you back. I am not referring to the insightful political commentary you provide, but the fact that you did admit you were wrong.

I tend to remember things that people say (or do), such as is the case with trumad. Rather than admit you are a human being and have your faults (I know damn well that I have my faults), everyone seems to go all sanctimonious. It just really bothers the shit out of me when someone comes on DU and says how great they are personnally.

BTW: I hate the fucking Eagles, also.

[Harmony Blue]

208. Is this true?

Oh wow...

[madinmaryland]

86. I guess we know what trumad is up to these days...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=215&topic_id=137026&mesg_id=137026

[Vashta Nerada]

87. All this over a silly SI swimsuit issue?

Wow. If you're willing to do that over the swimsuit issue of SI, what are you willing to do to save the country from water shortages? From fracking? From government employees abusing their power?

I'm definitely not willing to jump off a building for anyone over this silly SI swimsuit issue.

[VanillaRhapsody]

154. because it doesn't effect YOU...

"All this about a picture of Obama dressed as a witch doctor"?

What's all the fuss...right?

[Vashta Nerada]

159. Nice strawman argument there.

But continue flinging poo over something so trivial.

I'm worried about the shortages of water, fracking, fair wages for all, you know, those trivial things, things I noticed you don't comment on very much, if at all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

163. Its only strawman to someone who thinks it doesn't effect HIM!

I assure you if you were a woman...it would be MUCH higher on your list of priorities...

Would you "advise" the LGBT community to "get their priorities straight" too?

[Vashta Nerada]

164. Okay.

The SI swimsuit issue thread, the one that started all of this mess, was posted by a WOMAN with no ill-intentions. It only became a big deal because a few posters assumed she was a man and was posting it to get a rise out of men. No man commented on that thread that said anything cruel, sexist, or anything else about it. A few people who always like to argue about minuscule things (from both sides) started flinging poo. That's when it became a big deal. We're all on the same side here. But having others call you an "MRA supporter", a "republican", or "Rush Limbaugh supporter" because they don't think exactly the way you think on this subject is way over the line and ridiculous.

And FYI, I put the "B" in LGBT. But my list of priorities is thinking about things that affect everyone right now. I'm more concerned about freshwater running out, fracking, TPP, minimum wage increases, etc. etc. etc., not over the petty squabbling of two factions on DU and not having people telling me what I should be concerned/outraged/thinking about.

[AgingAmerican]

211. It's a control issue

nt

[Harmony Blue]

212. I agree

but these are the threads that tend to be popular lately in the general forum.

[mathematic]

88. That's mighty benevolent of ya

I can't hardly believe that this simplistic and obvious image rehabilitation is being taken seriously by anybody. It reads like pulp. The men are MEN, heroic, self-sacrificing, noble. The women, delicate and vulnerable, needing protection. I don't know which is more offensive: that you believe these sexist clichés or that you managed to use them un-ironically in 2014.

Has any woman actually asked you to walk through a damn fire for them? You conveniently framed your declaration in such a way to suggest that anybody that doesn't stand up and give you a rousing ovation for your rage-tinted view of gender equality is some sort of sexist degenerate. Why don't you take the following pledge, "I promise to treat all people equally, with dignity and respect, both basic and earned" instead of putting all women on pedestals no person can live up to?

Finally, you can't use your metaphorical and exaggerated language as a defense, for example, no "you don't get what I'm saying", etc. It is precisely this language and the underlying thoughts it represents I'm critical of.

[davidn3600]

98. Best post in the thread...

You win.

[HangOnKids]

105. Lots of words and outrage

None of them interesting.

[PeaceNikki]

116. Amen.

[Whisp]

153. I think this is another Badtime for Gonzo episode... n/t

[Agschmid]

89. Good post.

[MsPithy]

90. Am I allowed to say Kate Upton is a fantastically

beautiful and extraordinarily sexy woman? She is a healthy, curvy size and should be on as many magazine covers as she wants, and men should not feel guilty for enjoying looking at her.

I am a fat old woman who did have more than my share of appeal, back in the day. Those days are over for me, but I do not begrudge the young and sexy their time in the sun.

Here's what I do have problems with. Major problems. Fake boobs sewn onto victims of anorexia. Slut shaming of women who use contraception. Reporting on female politicians hairstyles and clothes. Asking if female politicians can "Have it all." Reporting that female politicians are bad mothers. Wondering if a female politician should be held responsible for her husband's infidelity.

Misogyny is rampant in our politics, but admiring Kate Upton's boobs is not one of the problems.

[redqueen]

103. Objectification is part of the reason female politicians are judged based on their appearance.

These issues are connected, that's why feminists call it out. We have to address the cause, not just the symptoms.

[Soundman]

127. Couldn't get past

The freakish piercing and the flailing arm movements to really get to the content. My advice to the me, me, me, look at me person in the video, lose the piercing, keep your arms under control and try out some antiperspirant. That is if you want to be taken seriously by others. Good content does not need dumbasshattery to sell it.

[redqueen]

129. Wow. nt

[sufrommich]

133. I think you took a wrong turn

somewhere on the internets.

[Soundman]

203. Nope, don't think so.

See as a democrat I am a supporter of the feminist cause. Equal rights are a cornerstone of our platform. I don't need to come to a democratic site and have a steady diet of outrage to know our parties platform. It's kinda like being a traffic cop that comes home to a non stop diatribe of, have you seen how bad the traffic is out there......

I also know that short of saying "yeah what you said" as the good little drones do, there will be no pleasing the radicals that have set up shop here. And in case you haven't noticed there is a growing number of feminists here that are saying the same thing we are....ENOUGH!

If you want to change something take your message outside the church, the choir is growing tired of the same tired sermon, get it? Didn't think so.

What I have seen here are textbook examples of how to infiltrate a website and disrupt it using its own rules against it. Very, hmmm, very... Can't quite put my finger on it.

[eShirl]

210. You support feminism, so the harpies should quit their yapping?

[Soundman]

214. Hmmm, I didn't think

That is what I said at all. But project on my friend, it is very becoming.

When you have long time (in the trenches feminists) taking the abuse I have seen here, I'm thinking you are projecting in the wrong direction. But by all means, project on, I am sure it makes you feel better about yourself.

[snooper2]

132. She can AT LEAST give credit to Eminem for stealing his riffs

for background music LOL


I thought he was evil?

[whatchamacallit]

143. I like the video. Check out this Thomas Dolby music vid from the 80s

At first 'Airhead' seems like naked misogyny, but the last line is money: "It was men made her that way, it was us made her that way".

http://m.

[kcr]

106. Well. You just said it, didn't you?

And you're still on DU. The post is still here. I'd say that means it's allowed. All the hand wringing over what's allowed, and proclamations about authoritarian man hating feminist buzz kills telling everyone what they can and can't do, because it's it's just meant to smear and mis characterize and shut down discussion. All those things you're bothered by are pretty much the same things the the rest of the feminists here on DU are bothered by. And for some reason we get a lot of shit for it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

155. Just hang on...you will get more than enough of your share of THAT kind of outrage..

if and when Hillary Rodham Clinton runs for President...

[mahina]

93. Thank you Will.

I stand up agains man-bashing all the time. Haven't been reading DU daily for a while, I saw some of the stink but not all.
Aloha!

[lumberjack_jeff]

100. This is chivalry pretending to be feminism.

e.g. intervene to protect a woman struck by a man, but offer to hold the coat of a woman hitting him (he must have deserved it).

This isn't about equality or grown up respect, it's about protecting women like we do children.

In contrast to the OP, I'd intervene to protect you, my father, or my sons too. The fact that this is a bold and controversial viewpoint shows the degree to which it is needed.

[HangOnKids]

107. Will offered to hold the coat of a woman hitting a man?

I must have missed that Jeff, holy shit men have it bad these days!

[Major Nikon]

109. It portrays women as delecate flowers that want or need the protection of men

If you can't subsitute man, husband, son, and father for all the gendered nouns in the OP, what you really have is a good example of anti-male bias. For those who seem to think that anti-male bias isn't really a thing, substitute benevolent sexism if it helps you understand it better.

[marions ghost]

120. Women need the support

of good men. Absolutely. And at times they still need the protection of good men. Because things are nowhere near a state of equality in any sphere you want to name. To insist that it's "everyone out for themselves" now ignores the bias against women and the continuing damaging objectification of them. It's not a level playing field at this time, maybe one day. You must realize that?

Nothing in the OP that is anti-male.

[boston bean]

123. They are basically calling Will a white knight.

It is MRA bullshit.... look it up. MRA's hate men who are feminists or allies about as much as they hate feminists.

[marions ghost]

128. Agreed

Never mind feminist hating--these MRA people are seriously anti-women in every way.

[tkmorris]

146. Fortunately we don't have any of those asshats here at DU

[boston bean]

147. right. see ya 'round.

[lumberjack_jeff]

150. The flames that Will wants to walk through are those of imaginary dragons. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

156. They are imaginary because YOU don't get to experience them?

not real unless it effects YOU personally?

I think I remember you arguing that White male privilege doesn't exist either!

[Major Nikon]

124. ...

Yes, there’s actually an official name for all of those comments and stereotypes that can somehow feel both nice and wrong at the same time, like the belief that women are “delicate flowers” who need to be protected by men, or the notion that women have the special gift of being “more kind and caring” than their male counterparts. It might sound like a compliment, but it still counts as sexism.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/psysociety/2013/04/02/benevolent-sexism/

[marions ghost]

126. I don't see it

The OP is not an example of "benevolent sexism."

If you think so, point out how.

[lumberjack_jeff]

142. No, it's not anti-male, it's anti-female.

It is based on the presumption that women can't fight their own rhetorical battles and require a hero (like me!) to do it for them.

Nothing about DU is real world. It doesn't matter how much weight you can lift or how tall you can reach or what a tough guy you are.

Setting aside the question of whether that's a progressive way for a world to work in real life, none of the crises that women (and only women) face online here require men (and only men) to jump off buildings or walk through fire.

The "DU gender wars" aren't entirely or even mostly about gender, they're about ideology. It's about the definitions of words like "equality" and "respect". About half the people who hold each respective philosophical view are men. Some men think that putting "their" women on pedestals is a sign of respect, and some women are uncomfortable enough with the pedestal (despite the nice view it affords) that they step off.

I think Will's OP is an outstanding example of 18th century notions of chivalry. If your goal is reaching a state of equality, you're walking backwards.

[VanillaRhapsody]

157. actually that would be YOU walking backwards....Mr White Male privilege doesn't exist!

you are making YOURSELF blatantly obvious....

[Vashta Nerada]

166. So do you agree with the OP?

Should women be held on a pedestal above men and be protected by men?

[VanillaRhapsody]

169. that is NOT what the OP said is it?

Its just how you would LIKE for it to be interpetted....but it is blatantly false...

But thanks for showing YOUR true colors too!

[Vashta Nerada]

170. Blatantly false?

It's exactly what he said, but worded differently. I'm not the only one who saw that in this OP.

Go ahead and objectively re-read the OP before flinging poo at me.

[VanillaRhapsody]

171. YES as has been pointed out over and over...

do you need Will to explain it to you?

I'd say there was plenty of "poo" thrown....but not by who YOU claim it is...

[Vashta Nerada]

172. You always refuse to answer questions.

You prefer to throw around accusations, strawmen, and ad hominem attacks.

You have an obvious agenda.

[VanillaRhapsody]

173. BECAUSE I don't allow the conversation to be diverted away...from the point.

this is not about ME...

its about YOU!

[Vashta Nerada]

174. Uh huh.

The question I asked you had nothing to do with me.

I find it interesting that you didn't reply to the OP in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4528618 . Instead, you attacked other members of the community. How very...telling.

[VanillaRhapsody]

175. I am not replying to the diversion....

I am supporting the fact that women ARE complaining vociferously to YOUR face....that they do NOT like this behavior in GD! YOU on other hand are supporting those that DEMAND the right to post T&A in GD


THAT is what this is about!

[Vashta Nerada]

176. Way to dodge my initial question and the content of my previous post.

[VanillaRhapsody]

177. I am not dodging anything...I am also not allowing you to swat it away as "unimportant".

Do you think you should tell the LGBT community the same thing if they complained about something in GD?

Do you think it is YOUR place to tell minorities when something in GD upsets them?

So why do you think it is okay to "mansplain" it away to women?

And yes I remember you from the "White Male Privilege" threads too...

[Vashta Nerada]

180. Again.

Instead of commenting on the very important issue of the OP I linked to you, you attacked other DUers. You also stayed quiet in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4519437

It's very easy to figure out your agenda and your intentions.

[AgingAmerican]

213. Certain women ARE delicate flowers that want protection of men

...and others aren't so much. Women run the entire spectrum.

[Major Nikon]

215. "Women run the entire spectrum"

Exactly

[DesertDiamond]

110. Thank you, William! Another reason to love you! BIG HUG!!!

[blackspade]

111. Thanks, well said.

[Android3.14]

114. Yup

Pretty simple really.

[Triana]

118. Thank you WilliamPitt!

[ladyVet]

122. Thank you for the sentiment, Mr. Pitt.

I appreciate men who will stand up for anyone who is being mistreated, spoken of in derogatory words, or taken advantage of. But I expect the same of women. If we want equality, we have to give it, you know?

All I ask is that I be respected as a human being, that my work is respected (even if I do it better than a man), that my opinions be allowed, and that I be safe in person and in the law of the land.

[LWolf]

125. I appreciate that more than you can know.

I appreciate it, because in my 53 years on the planet, there are exactly TWO men who would say that about me. TWO. And they weren't my fathers, brothers, or husbands. They are my sons.

Yet there were plenty who would cat call, make comments about my appearance, get too familiar with their hands without invitation, and make brutal, acidic remarks if turned away; plenty who would talk about that SI swimsuit issue and worse, and the women they saw and interacted with in real life, as if I weren't in the room. They were "friends," family, neighbors, peers, and bosses.

[marble falls]

135. You speak for me on this issue and I walk with you over it. Thanks Will.

[malthaussen]

136. It is of course the duty of every citizen to uphold the rights of others.

We males of a more... hoary... vintage tend to be more adamant about our obligation to protect women than we are about our obligation to protect other men, or about the obligation of women to protect others as well. I am sure the sentiment is quite heartfelt.

The obligation of a citizen to protect others is independent of any "need" or "desire" on the part of another for such protection. It is the duty of civilization to stand against the barbarians, not to shrug its shoulders and say "your problem."

-- Mal

[saidsimplesimon]

140. William, I started reading your articles on Truthout, long ago.

I've never even thought you disrespected anyone, of any race, gender or color. As for "walking through fire", may I suggest a master hypnotist beforehand? It's possible to do this without harm, but why would anyone waste the time?

[Beacool]

144. Thank you!!

Lots of decent guys out there among the rotten apples.



As for the SI swimsuit issue, meh, it doesn't bother me one way or the other.

[4lbs]

145. Well, the SI swimsuit edition isn't dropping in sales because people see how silly it is.

It's because now there are alternative sources. Many, many, sources.

Just type in "bikini" in Google and click on the Images tab. You'll have more bikini pictures than you know what to do with.

Same thing happened with Playboy and Penthouse. Easy to find althernative sources for nude pictures as well. No need to wait for the monthly issue when you can have as much as you want any time of any day.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

148. Kind of sexist to assume that women need you to protect them.

In general we should look out for anyone who can't protect themselves. Women as a whole are not defenseless however, they don't need men to protect them. What they need is respect and equal footing.

[msanthrope]

158. Wouldn't you have to climb down off your cross, first? Look, I don't need you

to walk through fire for me. And no woman here does.

This is a website that allows people with clashing opinions to discuss and argue.

It's got a jury system, a MIRT Team, Trash Thread, Trash Group, Trash by Keyword, and an Ignore function to deal with interpersonal problems. It also has three administrators who will ban trolls freely. Anybody incapable of using any or all of these resources really shouldn't be allowed to post on the Internets without supervision.

Sometimes, Will, people get pushback not because of their gender, or their race, or their orientation. They get pushback because they are a dumbass, or because they are obnoxious, or because they are inappropriate. The trick is being able to differentiate.

I don't need special protection. And no woman here does. Seriously, Will. Do you think there is anyone on this board I need protecting from?

[opiate69]

162. way to perpetuate the patriarchal gender stereotype, Will..

Witness a man brutalizing a woman? That man is bleeding on the sidewalk at my feet, and I have to go get my knuckles stitched

http://www.achilleseffect.com/2012/04/on-boys-and-patriarchy/

(snip)

Our culture teaches boys that physical strength and dominance are the most valuable traits a man can possess. Just look at the average animated superhero, like Hal Jordan here, or listen to the language used in a typical sports broadcast, where athletes are valued for being “tough” as much as for having any skill. In cartoons targeted to boys, action is often delivered in the form of violence, reinforcing the link between male heroism and physical dominance

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002599523

[efhmc]

167. Thanks so much. No walking thhrough fire or jumping off of buildings but

I could use some help cleaning the attic.

[btrflykng9]

184. Please keep all your limbs and appendages, we want you to live

This was super sweet and well said.

[liberal_at_heart]

186. Now that has got to be the best gender post I have ever seen on DU. Thank you.

[Whisp]

187. Here's some nice buildings

[NuclearDem]

191. So, let me get this straight...

You come out of lurking for nearly two years with barely over 100 posts and decide to make your appearance by slamming women as psychopathic backstabbing monsters who all secretly just want to fuck the jackass, all while spouting every key MRA talking point?

Right.

[loose wheel]

192. No....

I am saying that women respect, and want, men who look after their own interests. They do not respect the man that ignores his own interest and "will walk through fire" in an attempt to earn their respect. The latter is nothing but misguided foolery. Women are more than capable of looking after their own interest. I am not interested in the least in what women say, only what they do. Check what happens in the real world against those two sentences and tell me where I am wrong.

It took me thirty years to learn that simple lesson. I am much happier now than I was before I learned. I establish my interests clearly and up front. I won't accept anything less out of a woman. When I have chosen to be in a relationship following this paradigm, I have found that the woman and I are both much happier than the sad sack relationships I had before. In that way, I guess I am a feminist because I like to see women happy.

I have stated before that, while I a am a democrat and active in the party, I also run my own business that is finally starting to show some real signs of viability. Sometimes when I have trouble sleeping, I post here.

[uppityperson]

193. unfortunately there are women who want self centered assholes but being one in no way makes a

feminist.

[hrmjustin]

207. The poster you are responding to was banned.

[Violet_Crumble]

195. I agree with part of what you said, and am totally bemused by the rest...

The bit I agree with is about tradition and the Sports Illustrated thing. I agree that it won't last much longer and will go the way of the dinosaurs...

The bit I'm bemused about, and I'm speaking as a woman here, is why the hell you'd walk through fire or jump off buildings for me when you don't even know me? Don't get me wrong. If you've got the urge to do it, there's this former manager of mine at work who peeves me no end, and next time they're talking bullshit at me I reckon it'd be awesome if I could raise my hand and go 'Hold on right there. Before you say anything else, I've got Will Pitt flown in directly from the US to walk through a pit of burning coals for me to back up what I'm saying, and if yr not convinced after that, he's going to catch the lift up to the rooftop and jump off it JUST FOR ME!!!!' And after watching you do it and cleaning up the mess, coz after all jumping off the top of the building I work in would leave a bit of a mess, no-one will ever fuck around with me again!

Thanks, Will! I'm just sad that the walking through fire and jumping off a building is a one-off, no repeats kind of thing, coz I was just thinking there's this woman who lives in the townhouse across the road from me who's really pissing me off, and next time she has a whine at the owners committee that I'm on about something petty, it would have been awesome to dig a firepit and get you to walk across it for me.

[Warren DeMontague]

196. "You know what I say.... when I see a bed of red-hot coals?"

[Violet_Crumble]

197. Damn my shit internet connection right now...

It won't play for me, and that was a surprisingly good movie, imho.

Enough of the chit-chat. Warren, would you agree to walk across burning coals and jump off buildings for me? Much like Emily Thorne in Revenge, I have a long shit list, and I'm going to need quite a few men amenable to jumping off buildings to get through my list. Knowing me or even liking me isn't a prerequisite to filling the position, btw...

[Warren DeMontague]

198. I'd walk through a gauntlet of Skittles's ass-kickings, even.

Although to be fair, I've got a bunch scheduled anyway.

[Violet_Crumble]

199. The Skittle's arse kickings is a big call...

But with yr schedule and my insisting that anyone who insists on walking through fire/jumping off bldgs./wading through Skittles arse kickings are going to have to pay their own air fare coz I'm too skint to pay for it, my Revenge plot is just never gonna get off the ground...

[Warren DeMontague]

200. ....I like Vegemite.

that's gotta count for something, right?

[Violet_Crumble]

201. Now yr talking!

Having grown up on a steady diet of Vegemite sandwiches for my school lunches, and noticing that many Americans don't appreciate the stuff, Will would have won me over if he'd said 'Violet, I'd sit there and eat an entire jar of Vegemite without gagging for you!' Jumping off buildings has nothing on that!

[Warren DeMontague]

202. Oh yeah.

Plus it's loaded with Vitamin B, isn't it?

An expat wife of a friend turned me on to it years ago, laughing thinking I was going to be grossed out and unable to deal. Hell, I think it's tasty. But I have a strange palate.

[madokie]

205. I want on that list

I think that woman is the best thing to happen to man.
In my own little world if there is a bull that needs taken by the horns its my job, I do it, If there is paths to be taken by a more tactful path then thats for my Loving Wife. Shes a rock I'm a stick of dynamite. One might get by with fucking with me but don't ever, ever fuck with my family or friends. That will always bring out the short fuse in me

We work as a team and thats the way we both were raised to see things.