The Lord's table

[Recursion]

Maybe this belongs in the Christian group? I don't know. I was just appalled by a vote at my "home" church to exclude homeless people from the congregation.

I want to say in fairness that half of the Session (the governing committee in Presbyterian churches) resigned. As was only right.

Jesus taught us many things, but mostly to feed our neighbor. Actually, Jesus's own statements are pretty overtly non political. Just feed the poor.

But anyways, this recent movement appalls me. The Lord's table isn't for those who are right; it's for of us who are wrong.

Anyways, that was that.

[LuvNewcastle]

1. Jesus is a little too radical for some people.

When I went to church, there wasn't much talk about the teachings of Jesus; they were a lot more interested in Paul. They considered the teachings of Jesus to be basic stuff for immature Christians and Paul's teachings to be for the mature. It was all about self-actualization instead of focusing on others. Nitpicking. Paul took Christianity and twisted it and, in my opinion, ruined it.

[arely staircase]

3. yes and no

yes I think many Christians focus on St. Paul while forgetting Christ but many have twisted Paul's teaching to serve their agendas.

[merrily]

7. Fair enough because Paul twisted Christ's teachings. (JMO)

[yeoman6987]

36. What do you mean?

Do you mean that they are not able to be official members but can still attend services? I can't imagine they kicking the homeless out of church services. I am not saying they don't but that just seems rather dramatic. I mean the people could walk in while the preacher is giving the word and he couldn't do a thing.

[LuvNewcastle]

39. A lot of churches have ushers that stand at the front door during the service.

They're there to seat people who come in, mostly the ones who come in late. They'll also keep people out if they think they're going to be trouble.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. I'm curious.

How did they justify denying homeless people a place in their church?

[Recursion]

5. "Justify"? Of course they couldn't do that

Because a manifestly unjust action admits of no justification.

They couched it in the language of "security". Well, guess what? Christianity is not a creed for the faint-hearted, as the first four centuries of martyrs should tell anyone. At any rate, I am no more afraid of my fellow communicants now than I was as a child. Fear is the domain of the conservatives; I'll leave it to them. I do not believe in fear.

[Le Taz Hot]

9. Again, just curious.

Will you (and other members of the congregation) challenge that decision (can you challenge that decision?), iow, try changing from within, or will you find another church? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I'm just having a need-to-know moment.

[Recursion]

11. This was the church I grew up in, and I haven't been there in almost 20 years

I live in India, so my direct action possibilities are limited.

Your question is entirely fair, but I'm just another person looking in from the outside.

Half of the Session resigned; maybe they will form their own church. If so, I'll join it.

[Le Taz Hot]

17. Ah, I see, thanks.

In a semi-related incident, I was directing choir at a Lutheran Church, probably 30 years ago now, when one of the other Lutheran Churches got a new pastor who promptly fired all the female personnel in leadership positions -- including the female choir director, organist and Sunday School teachers. About half the congregation stayed and the other half fanned out to other Lutheran Churches, including the one in which I was working. It was just kind of an interesting thing to watch.

[merrily]

15. Please remind me what Jesus said about shunning the poor for security reasons.

[Recursion]

16. Exactly

If we believe in this, we have to do away with that BS.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. "That which you do unto the least of those among you, you do unto me."

According to Jesus Christ, they are shunning Jesus Christ. But they don't give a fuck about Jesus Christ.

[zeemike]

33. Jesus has been a pain in the ass too long now.

He is a threat to their bottom line and probably their 401k...and espouses radical ideas that they help the poor not the rich...there is no money in that.

[merrily]

4. Studies have shown that it is less expensive to society to house people

than to deal with issues created by homelessness. Not to mention that it is more humane. But, as a society, we seem to want no part of it.





I guess that, as a society, we are willing to pay more for the privilege of punishing homeless people.

[LuvNewcastle]

13. That's it.

When people don't have a place to live, I'd say the logical and right thing to do is to give them a place to live. But we can't do that, be cause then EVERYBODY will want a free house, right? Isn't that the thinking? Do people really believe that or is that what they tell themselves to justify their inaction? There's a current in society that prohibits helping some people because then we'd be rewarding their bad behavior. If we just use our tough love long enough, they'll eventually clean up, find Jesus, and fly straight.

[merrily]

14. I've never heard it called tough love or any kind of love, though.

In my memory until the day I die or no longer have memory:


Ron Paul debating in the Republican primary, beginning to give a hypothetical about people dying at the Emergency Room door because they did not have health insurance. But he could not finish the hypothetical because of the applause from the audience.

Pro life, my ass.

[LuvNewcastle]

18. There's some sick people in our society.

There needs to be a sort of revolution in people's thinking. We need to evolve past this pettiness and move on as a species. I think that's sort of what Jesus was saying 2,000 years ago, and we're still waiting on the revolution that never comes.

[merrily]

19. Occupy churches?

[Recursion]

25. I'm down.

Let's do it.

[merrily]

42. Okay. I'll meet you at

the Old North Church at 9 am Sunday. (Tiny congregation, seemed like very nice people the one time I attended services there, but the church is beautiful and, of course, quite historic.)

[LuvNewcastle]

28. lol. Maybe.

[JHB]

6. An argument in favor of "a wall of separation between...

...church and social club."

It helps prevent mistaking one for the other.

[Recursion]

8. Doesn't it? And yet here we are.

MLK was absolutely right: the most segregated hour in America remains 10am on Sunday.

[undeterred]

10. The nature of God is inclusive

If your church is not inclusive of homeless people...

[zabet]

12. The small Church

I attend is in the city and we gladly accept the homeless. We provide them free coffee and donuts/pastries if they desire. We have racks and racks of donated clothes they can 'shop' for free. We also have small care boxes of non-perishable foods that we give them. I think this attitude towards the homeless is more Christian than not letting them in church at all.

My Mom always said, "Church ain't a hotel for Saints......it is a hospital for sinners".

[DebJ]

20. Does this apply to all Presbyterian churches, or only to one church building?

I was raised Roman Catholic where all is top-down. I don't know
much about the organizational functioning of other denominations.

[Recursion]

26. No, literally just that congregation

It was about dealing with homeless persons who show up on Sundays.

[DebJ]

37. Whew. Thanks. n/t

[cally]

30. My small Presbyterian Church provides a meal once a week

and housing. We work with other churches in the area to provide a meal each day and open the church doors to sleep in. Also, provide meals for two other homeless programs. We only have 200 members so this is a big commitment for the church.

There is no way this church would exclude homeless men and women from our church.

[shenmue]

21. Wow

That sounds awful. I hope you can maybe find a new one.

Not to brag but we don't do anything like that in my parish. (I go to a Greek Orthodox Church.)

[Major Nikon]

22. I have a red phone to the almighty

He says they will probably go to hell for this.

[mimi85]

24. Yes, this should go in one of the religious groups.

And another "Christian" action. How anyone can put up with this BS is beyond me.

[Borchkins]

27. Wow, unbelievable.

Good for the group that resigned. I hope they find a more inclusive place to worship.
B

[kmlisle]

29. There is a national organization in the US called IHN

or Interfaith Hospitality Network. It is a network of churches that house homeless people with children for a week at a time. Giving them shelter and counseling and helping them find jobs and save for apartment deposits. It takes on average 3 months to get them on their feet. Our congregation does this about 4 times a year and it is a great experience for those of us who volunteer in the program. You really get to know these folks and sometimes you make friends and keep in touch. We even have acquired members this way. About a dozen churches do this in my town and it is happening all over the US.

Doesn't it seem like the good news is the last we hear?

[amuse bouche]

31. I discovered a long time ago..

if you are looking for a big pile of phonies and frauds....just walk into a church

So this is no surprise at all

[ColesCountyDem]

32. Speaking as someone whose home church has done the exact opposite, I am apalled!

My county has the dubious twin distinctions of being both 'economically challenged' and having the highest unemployment rate in the State of Illinois. If anyone cares to witness first hand the GAPING holes in our nation's 'social safety net', a visit to Franklin County IL will furnish you with an abundance of evidence. Were it not for our churches, it is quite likely that tens of thousands would find themselves and their families homeless and/or starving.

Our Ministerial Alliance runs a food pantry,a soup kitchen, a year-round 'brown-bag' meal program for poor school-age children (and their younger siblings) who might otherwise go hungry after school and on weekends/vacations, and provides payment guarantees for rent, utilities, prescriptions, etc. . It has often been observed that the poor are often the most generous, and I can personally attest to this fact; although poor, the people here are amazingly generous, in terms of cash, goods and in-kind donations.

My church-- an American Baptist Convention congregation, if that matters-- not only welcomes the homeless, but actively works to PREVENT homelessness, whenever possible. Contrary to popular perception, many homeless people do work, at least part-time. What these folks lack is the complete ability to do more than live a 'hand to mouth' existence on the meager funds available to them; deposits for rent and utilities, funds for decent 'work/interview appropriate' clothing are a pipe dream, and even the money necessary for transportation to a job (or a better job) is unavailable. As a church, we made the decision in 2008 to devote a majority of our income to 'home missions' and to open our doors to ALL who found themselves in need. We will shelter you, feed you, see you decently clothed and provide you with all appropriate assistance needed to sustain yourself in a decent and dignified lifestyle. We work closely with social-service agencies and also maintain a 'networking' database covering virtually every basic need, and how it may be met.

Progressive Christians and other religious/spiritual people MUST 'step into the breach', as it were, because it IS the only theologically correct response to the question 'What would Jesus do?' ! Not only CAN we 'take back' Christianity from the right-wing, fundamentalist/dominionists, we MUST do so (and I believe we will)!

[1awake]

34. "The Lord's table isn't for those who are right; it's those of us who are wrong. "

Wow... truest thing I've heard in a long time.

That's the kind of place I would.... shake the dust from my feet and walk away.

[MineralMan]

35. If I recall, and I do, Jesus didn't have a fixed place he called home, either,

as an adult. He and his band of disciples were pretty much homeless, themselves.

This church is not a Christian church. It would keep Jesus out.

I'm an atheist, by the way.

[Boom Sound 416]

38. It's an exclusion from regular service or total exclusion?

[Fumesucker]

40. It seems like everything reminds me of music these days

[hrmjustin]

41. That is a sin that they did this.

Not Christ like at all. I wonder what they think Jesus will say to them when they meet him.

[Nye Bevan]

43. WWJD? I'm pretty sure not this (nt)

[Egalitarian Thug]

44. Yep, you were right, this belongs in religion.

I suppose you intended for people to get all weepy and/or outraged that you belong to a group of mean-spirited, delusional fuck-sticks.

Sorry, your group is competly typical of the species.